*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

savannahkat

Rightwing wrote: »

Yeah, there are pros and cons for the both divisions.
Advantage of 1B
Isn't as intense, no pressure, come in under the radar, can peak for the championship, teams like galway seem to be spent by the time the championship comes around just trying to preserve their 1A status.

There is absolutely no advantage in being a permanent member of 1B. Coming in under the radar is a myth especially for Limerick. The dog in the street knows how good Limerick are and the same dog knows they will put up at least one big championship performance but will struggle to follow it up. Not because they cannot follow it up but because they do not put themselves in a position to be able to follow it up. Soft games with no pressure are no way to prepare for championship hurling. With no disrespect to Offaly or Antrim but you are going to learn nothing from playing them and with respect to Wexford and Waterford they are not the the Kilkenny's, Tipperary; Galway's, Dublin's or Clare's of this world. Train all you like seven days a week run up and down the Galtee's or around Limerick university for seven months preparing for the championship all you like when five successive games against the above in the league would be worth six of the same months. All the dieticians and physical trainers in this world wont make you a hurler. Playing against the best all the times and not just once or twice a year hoping to win an All Ireland coming out of the long grass is no substitute for proper preparation. It is lazy and lazy teams win nothing.

Rightwing

savannahkat wrote: »

There is absolutely no advantage in being a permanent member of 1B. Coming in under the radar is a myth especially for Limerick. The dog in the street knows how good Limerick are and the same dog knows they will put up at least one big championship performance but will struggle to follow it up. Not because they cannot follow it up but because they do not put themselves in a position to be able to follow it up. Soft games with no pressure are no way to prepare for championship hurling. With no disrespect to Offaly or Antrim but you are going to learn nothing from playing them and with respect to Wexford and Waterford they are not the the Kilkenny's, Tipperary; Galway's, Dublin's or Clare's of this world. Train all you like seven days a week run up and down the Galtee's or around Limerick university for seven months preparing for the championship all you like when five successive games against the above in the league would be worth six of the same months. All the dieticians and physical trainers in this world wont make you a hurler. Playing against the best all the times and not just once or twice a year hoping to win an All Ireland coming out of the long grass is no substitute for proper preparation. It is lazy and lazy teams win nothing.

You may be right, and I respect all opinions, but as far as I see, the only real winner with a competitive league is KK. The league is so far off championship it's an embarrassment for the GAA.

glasagusban

Iecrawfc wrote: »

It's a hard one for the management, do you throw in a few untested players and risk one defeat the could scupper any promotion chances and the resultant criticism(like last year) or do you go all out and get to summer with a lack of options, everybody wants both, win promotion AND get new players in but they're not always compatible...personally I'd sooner get to the league quarter final with a few new players with promotion as a bonus if it happens, rather than get promotion but get to the championship with only 18-19 live options.
The team doesn't need wholesale surgery just some tweaks here and there, I would be trying to get a new option for half back line, Tom Ryan or Dan Morrissey, and a new half forward, Cian Lynch, Daragh O' Donovan or David Reidy maybe and an option in the inside, Kevin O'brien or Tom Morrissey off the bench.
Also time to give Alan Dempsey some game time to see if he can make a step up to a regular spot, not sure where his best position is though, seems to be either a corner back or midfielder? If we got 2 or 3 game breakers as starters or substitutes come championship then that would be a great league regardless of promotion.

There are a few players, and you've mentioned them there, that I wouldn't call "untested", that are clearly highly rated by other managers they play for, that haven't had a decent opportunity for limerick yet.

Fitzgibbon cup is probably the next highest standard to intercounty so looking at that, we have Dan Morrissey who is picked 6 on a star studded UL team but hasn't gotten a look in with limerick. And we have Alan Dempsey who is captain of LIT under Davy Fitz that hasn't gotten a look in with limerick. I would like to see Dempsey coming in at corner back, maybe releasing Hickey to half back. Morrissey should certainly be given an extended run in the half back line. Tom Ryan has had a good few opportunities but due to lack (or perceived lack) of options this year was used as a sub half forward after playing great at midfield when used there in the league. We know he can hurl well at this level, give him an extended run at half back/midfield.

I think downes needs to shift to half forward after a disappointing year in the corner. If his form can be rebuilt in the corner and he actually sees more ball there then great, but I think half forward might be better for him. Another half forward spot is Hannon. The third is probably Breen/DOG. And Reidy will be back too. That breakdown would leave us needing a corner forward to replace Downes (with Mulcahy in one corner and Dowling full both nailed on starters).

Browney7

savannahkat wrote: »

There is absolutely no advantage in being a permanent member of 1B. Coming in under the radar is a myth especially for Limerick. The dog in the street knows how good Limerick are and the same dog knows they will put up at least one big championship performance but will struggle to follow it up. Not because they cannot follow it up but because they do not put themselves in a position to be able to follow it up. Soft games with no pressure are no way to prepare for championship hurling. With no disrespect to Offaly or Antrim but you are going to learn nothing from playing them and with respect to Wexford and Waterford they are not the the Kilkenny's, Tipperary; Galway's, Dublin's or Clare's of this world. Train all you like seven days a week run up and down the Galtee's or around Limerick university for seven months preparing for the championship all you like when five successive games against the above in the league would be worth six of the same months. All the dieticians and physical trainers in this world wont make you a hurler. Playing against the best all the times and not just once or twice a year hoping to win an All Ireland coming out of the long grass is no substitute for proper preparation. It is lazy and lazy teams win nothing.

I rarely agree with Savannahkat but this is spot on.

paddy no 11

Browney7 wrote: »

I rarely agree with Savannahkat but this is spot on.

+1

Fireball07

Aye, I'd agree with it all as well.


We were all disgusted with the league campaign last year, and it was what caused the whole shambolic mess with the apology thing and O'Grady leaving and everything. But we recovered, and next year, there can be no excuses in the league. We're in a pretty good place, we have good young players coming through, we are definitely the strongest team in 1B based on last year.

Rightwing

Browney7 wrote: »

I rarely agree with Savannahkat but this is spot on.

But if being in 1A is so good, how come it hasn't benefitted the likes of Galway/Waterford etc?

zombieHanalei

Rightwing wrote: »

Yeah, there are pros and cons for the both divisions.
Advantage of 1B
Isn't as intense, no pressure, come in under the radar, can peak for the championship, teams like galway seem to be spent by the time the championship comes around just trying to preserve their 1A status.

I have never heard a lack of intensity described as an advantage.

No pressure? If players can't handle pressure then they are no use to us in July and August when we're under pressure in an All-Ireland QF/SF against a Kilkenny or a Clare or a Tipperary. Players need to be able to learn to handle pressure, they will never do that in 1B.

Can peak for the championship? Since the 1A 1B format was introduced, three AI finals contested by 1A teams. 1B teams can't get past the semi finals.

In the All-Ireland series (i.e. quarter finals onwards), every time a 1B team has met a 1A team, the 1A team has prevailed.
Three 1B teams have won provincial finals only to go on to be beaten relatively easily by 1A opposition in the semi final. Winning provincial titles and beating Tipperary in Munster is all well and good, but with the backdoor it ain't do or die until you play the first game out of the provincial championship.

Waterford and Galway? Well go to the Waterford and Galway threads and ask them, I can guarantee you they won't agree that playing in 1A has held them back. There are many reasons they have been relatively disappointing, Waterford are quite clearly a team in transition with a lot of young players coming through at once and Galway have a whole multitude of issues they need to sort out.

And on Galway, they have done a little bit more than we have in recent years actually; both Galway and Limerick have a provincial title apiece but only one of those two teams has successfully negotiated the semi final hurdle.

Since the introduction of 1A/1B in 2012, excluding Munster championship games which are not do or die, our record is as follows

2012 Laois (1B team) WON
2012 Antrim (1B team) WON
2012 Clare (1B team) WON
2012 Kilkenny (1A team) LOST
2013 Clare (1A team) LOST
2014 Wexford (1B team) WON
2014 Kilkenny (1A team) LOST

Yes, we have two wins over Tipperary and one win over Cork in that time in Munster, but our record in knockout matches; every time we play a 1B team, we win. Every time we play a 1A team, we lose.

Rightwing

zombieHanalei wrote: »

I have never heard a lack of intensity described as an advantage.

No pressure? If players can't handle pressure then they are no use to us in July and August when we're under pressure in an All-Ireland QF/SF against a Kilkenny or a Clare or a Tipperary. Players need to be able to learn to handle pressure, they will never do that in 1B.

Can peak for the championship? Since the 1A 1B format was introduced, three AI finals contested by 1A teams. 1B teams can't get past the semi finals.

In the All-Ireland series (i.e. quarter finals onwards), every time a 1B team has met a 1A team, the 1A team has prevailed.
Three 1B teams have won provincial finals only to go on to be beaten relatively easily by 1A opposition in the semi final. Winning provincial titles and beating Tipperary in Munster is all well and good, but with the backdoor it ain't do or die until you play the first game out of the provincial championship.

Waterford and Galway? Well go to the Waterford and Galway threads and ask them, I can guarantee you they won't agree that playing in 1A has held them back. There are many reasons they have been relatively disappointing, Waterford are quite clearly a team in transition with a lot of young players coming through at once and Galway have a whole multitude of issues they need to sort out.

And on Galway, they have done a little bit more than we have in recent years actually; both Galway and Limerick have a provincial title apiece but only one of those two teams has successfully negotiated the semi final hurdle.

Since the introduction of 1A/1B in 2012, excluding Munster championship games which are not do or die, our record is as follows

2012 Laois (1B team) WON
2012 Antrim (1B team) WON
2012 Clare (1B team) WON
2012 Kilkenny (1A team) LOST
2013 Clare (1A team) LOST
2014 Wexford (1B team) WON
2014 Kilkenny (1A team) LOST

Yes, we have two wins over Tipperary and one win over Cork in that time in Munster, but our record in knockout matches; every time we play a 1B team, we win. Every time we play a 1A team, we lose.

Lack of intensity as in, by the time the championship comes around you are not a spent force like 5 of the other 6 teams in 1A.
Our problem isn't 1B - it's we're maybe 1 or 2 players short. Only KK can be confident of beating us, regardless of what division we are in.

Fireball07

Pallasgreen beat Monaleen in the Intermediate hurling final today. 0-10 to 0-8, I think.

Just avoided relegation last year, now they are intermediate champions. It would seem that a couple of their younger players (like Colin Ryan) have really stepped up and delivered. Monaleen also have a very good young team... to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Monaleen were stronger at Premier Intermediate than Pallasgreen though.


I do rate Colin Ryan very very highly though, I'd love to see him get a chance with the seniors next year, especially in a training squad. Unbelievable aerial ability, versatile and well able to take a score. He's in UL now afaik.

Rightwing

Bookies don't seem to think that 1B will do our chances any harm this year, as short a price as we have been since the mid 1990's, and that despite a tough draw in Munster. Galway probably look the best value there.

All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2015 Sunday 4th January 2015, 12:00

Kilkenny
7/4

Galway
10/1

Laois
250/1

Tipperary
4/1

Dublin
16/1

Antrim
250/1

Cork
5/1

Waterford
20/1

Carlow
500/1

Clare
6/1

Wexford
22/1

Westmeath
500/1

Limerick
8/1

Offaly
150/1

savannahkat

Offaly 150/1
Waterford 20/1
Antrim250/1
Laois 250/1
Wexford 22/1

Go ahead and waste another Spring traveling the country learning nothing.

Mountainlad

What are Bruff like lads?

Big favourites for next weekend.

homeofhurling

savannahkat wrote: »

There is absolutely no advantage in being a permanent member of 1B. Coming in under the radar is a myth especially for Limerick. The dog in the street knows how good Limerick are and the same dog knows they will put up at least one big championship performance but will struggle to follow it up. Not because they cannot follow it up but because they do not put themselves in a position to be able to follow it up. Soft games with no pressure are no way to prepare for championship hurling. With no disrespect to Offaly or Antrim but you are going to learn nothing from playing them and with respect to Wexford and Waterford they are not the the Kilkenny's, Tipperary; Galway's, Dublin's or Clare's of this world. Train all you like seven days a week run up and down the Galtee's or around Limerick university for seven months preparing for the championship all you like when five successive games against the above in the league would be worth six of the same months. All the dieticians and physical trainers in this world wont make you a hurler. Playing against the best all the times and not just once or twice a year hoping to win an All Ireland coming out of the long grass is no substitute for proper preparation. It is lazy and lazy teams win nothing.

no disrespect to offaly or Antrim, but Limerick didn't beat offaly in this years league and in fact they have a poor enough record again them in league and championship.

Rightwing

savannahkat wrote: »

Offaly 150/1
Waterford 20/1
Antrim250/1
Laois 250/1
Wexford 22/1

Go ahead and waste another Spring traveling the country learning nothing.

Learn nothing, and reveal nothing. The essential purpose of a league that very few care about.

francozola

Does anybody know if the County Board are doing a club season ticket for next year and how much it costs if so?
Thanks

Fireball07

Mountainlad wrote: »

What are Bruff like lads?

Big favourites for next weekend.

Haven't seen them this year but they won a highly competitive Premier Intermediate Championship, which is an achievement in itself, I wouldn't have had them as likely winners at the start. They beat a good Garryspillane side very handily in the semi-final, and beat Lixnaw too who would have been fancied.


In terms of players... Paul Browne is their county star and is a class hurler, just so intelligent on the ball. Sean Finn was on the minor team the past two years at corner-back, very talented there, corner-forward for Bruff and has been scoring goals for fun. Scored 1-3 from play against Lixnaw, scored a hat-trick earlier on... seems to be racking up the scores.

Brian Finn at corner-back was a Limerick minor a few years ago, good player. Pretty sure Dean Madden played underage for Limerick, he's excellent at that level anyway.

Bobby O'Brien is the captain, Limerick footballer (although he didn't play last year), would have been a dual player all the way up along underage. Played minor and U-21 in both hurling and football.

Shane Bulfin is the free-taker, been a scoring machine for years at club level, also played minor and I think U-21 for Limerick. John Cooke is another senior intercounty footballer, he's the full-forward, not sure what he's like at hurling but I imagine he makes his presence felt. Paddy O'Leary would be the veteran of the side, very good hurler in his own right.


They have Kyle Dillon on the bench who may not feature but is a very talented young hurler, will likely be one of the best players on the Limerick minor team next year.


Not sure what Cappoquin are like but Bruff do have a very decent collection of players.

Smith614

Lixnaw did the hard job for Bruff. Bruff are limited but the standard at intermediate is not great. Ballyhea would prob. have bben best team in it by a distance but the loss of Ronan and Callaghan was too much.

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Haven't seen them this year but they won a highly competitive Premier Intermediate Championship, which is an achievement in itself, I wouldn't have had them as likely winners at the start. They beat a good Garryspillane side very handily in the semi-final, and beat Lixnaw too who would have been fancied.


In terms of players... Paul Browne is their county star and is a class hurler, just so intelligent on the ball. Sean Finn was on the minor team the past two years at corner-back, very talented there, corner-forward for Bruff and has been scoring goals for fun. Scored 1-3 from play against Lixnaw, scored a hat-trick earlier on... seems to be racking up the scores.

Brian Finn at corner-back was a Limerick minor a few years ago, good player. Pretty sure Dean Madden played underage for Limerick, he's excellent at that level anyway.

Bobby O'Brien is the captain, Limerick footballer (although he didn't play last year), would have been a dual player all the way up along underage. Played minor and U-21 in both hurling and football.

Shane Bulfin is the free-taker, been a scoring machine for years at club level, also played minor and I think U-21 for Limerick. John Cooke is another senior intercounty footballer, he's the full-forward, not sure what he's like at hurling but I imagine he makes his presence felt. Paddy O'Leary would be the veteran of the side, very good hurler in his own right.


They have Kyle Dillon on the bench who may not feature but is a very talented young hurler, will likely be one of the best players on the Limerick minor team next year.


Not sure what Cappoquin are like but Bruff do have a very decent collection of players.

They sound good. Wouldn't think Cappoquin would be as good as that to be honest.

Iecrawfc

Mountainlad wrote: »

They sound good. Wouldn't think Cappoquin would be as good as that to be honest.

The standard of the limerick intermediate championship was raised considerably by the creation of the 'premier' intermediate level, as 4 formerly senior teams(including Bruff) were regarded from senior so the senior championship went from 16 to 12 teams. Would be good to see Bruff get a Munster title as they've got quite a few promising youngsters and the exposure would do them no harm.

zombieHanalei

Despite playing Intermediate this year, Bruff could reasonably claim to be one of the best 10 clubs in the county.

Outside the top 6 clubs (NaPiarsaigh, Kilmallock, Doon, Adare, Ahane, Patrickswell) there is nothing much between the remaining senior clubs and the top 5 or 6 Premier Intermediate clubs. They have a very good chance of winning a Munster title (I'd be far more confident in them than I would be in Kilmallock overcoming Cratloe) and for the foreseeable future I would expect Limerick clubs to be very competitive in the Munster Intermediate.

Fireball07 has already given a good summary of the standard of player at Bruff's disposal.

mickmackey1

zombieHanalei wrote: »

(I'd be far more confident in them than I would be in Kilmallock overcoming Cratloe)

Surprised how many are still going for Cratloe, Conor McGrath for example looked knackered last Sunday. I'd say Kilmallock have a great chance.

Rightwing

Bruff are 1/3 & Cratloe are 4/6

I think Cratloe are falsely priced. They were struggling big time v waterford champions until some idiot got sent off. I'll be backing kilmallock.

Mountainlad

Rightwing wrote: »

Bruff are 1/3 & Cratloe are 4/6

I think Cratloe are falsely priced. They were struggling big time v waterford champions until some idiot got sent off. I'll be backing kilmallock.

Very harsh sending off. Diarmuid Kirwan, who reffed that game, refs the Bruff v Cappoquin, can see him annoying a few.

I thought 11/4 was big on Cappoquin and while I still expect them to give a decent account of themselves, put off by what I've heard about Bruff they sound quality.

Rightwing

Mountainlad wrote: »

Very harsh sending off. Diarmuid Kirwan, who reffed that game, refs the Bruff v Cappoquin, can see him annoying a few.

I thought 11/4 was big on Cappoquin and while I still expect them to give a decent account of themselves, put off by what I've heard about Bruff they sound quality.

I was watching a bit of that match, and the conditons were awful. Can't rem what the sending off was for, but I felt Cratloe were done until that call. they looked very average. Then Thurles had a man off from the start so it's hard to know how good are they.

I also think Bruff are over priced @ 1/3

Fireball07

Bruff beaten by a point by Cappoquin. Hard luck to them.


Good luck to Kilmallock tomorrow, be up against it against a very strong Cratloe side.

Rightwing

Rightwing wrote: »

Bruff are 1/3 & Cratloe are 4/6

I think Cratloe are falsely priced. They were struggling big time v waterford champions until some idiot got sent off. I'll be backing kilmallock.

Lost my bet, had a double on cappoquin & Kilamllock. Kilmallock certainly looked the better team, but extra man told.

Fireball07

Great result for Kilmallock, a heroic performance, some great players, great heart and some great score-taking. Kept going even when the odds were against them. After a blistering start by Cratloe, many would have written them off but the Balbec were the better team in normal time and certainly in extra-time.

I don't think any player had a bad game but Mark O'Loughlin, Aaron Costelloe, Liam Walsh, Bryan O'Sullivan, Jake Mulcahy, Paudie O'Brien and Graeme could all have been contenders for man of the match. Hanley + O'Loughlin super from the bench, particularly Hanley. Sparrow- great manager.


Congrats to Paddy off here too, there'll be some celebrations.

Rightwing

I figured all along they were going to win this, the test starts now. I think they play northern winners, so that realistically sets them up for a shot at the AI.

paddy no 11

Didnt make it in today regrettably. what a performance.

Im sure plenty will say that they only won because cratloe were tired but not really true, they came back into it from 15 mins on and were the better team from there on. They should have pushed on when 4 up in 2nd half but messed up same as sars got a man sent off and let them back in.

Agree with the players mentioned firball yeah, costelloe was excellent. Was bryan sull 7 from 7 on shooting or did he hit a few wides? 7 from 7 from midfield would be a fairly exceptional performance.