*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

Mehapoy

shockframe wrote: »

Castletroys win against Youghal was absolutely massive.

If they had gone out in the quarter final stages it would have been a disaster as the school has stagnated at this stage x2 before so it needed a semi final appearance to show it was worth something.

Ard Scoil Ris has Na piarsaigh/The Well/Adare to fall back on whereas Castletroy are relying on an a trying-to-build club in Monaleen and Ahane whose links with Castletroy could help restore its former glory somewhat.

Limericks underage hurling needs Castletroy. A huge catchment area but it's fighting a battle with Rugby that looks to be coming strong again. The rugby events of the past week/season though may have put a spanner in the works.

I dont fancy their chances of getting to the final as Thurles should come out of that side but it's still great that we've 2 semi final representatives for the second year in a row.

Does anyone know what the Limerick scene might be like after this year. After the highs of the last 4-5 years I wouldnt be surprise if we went into a bit of a lull.

I don't think there's any reason why limerick need to go back into a lull, at the end of the day if the clubs are producing players then there should be a pathway there through schools and academies for players to progress. Brian Ryan said last year limerick should be aiming to have the minors playing in croke park every 3 years, I think that is an achievable aim and would do much to banish this limerick fear of croke park, the more limerick teams that can come out of Munster the better as they will become accustomed to striving for all Ireland's rather than being happy with a Munster now and again.
It comes down to the work being put into the clubs though, if that falls off then it's very hard to produce players, the county board should be watching this also, if a club is dropping off then they should be having a word and providing assistence if possible, another area is to expand the hurling areas of west limerick, newcastlewest is a big town and should be able to compete at a much higher level of hurling than what it is, this should be targeted as a 'project' to develop hurling, also clubs around the city, claughaun, st Patricks and Old Christians need to get help.

Mehapoy

Mehapoy wrote: »

I don't think there's any reason why limerick need to go back into a lull, at the end of the day if the clubs are producing players then there should be a pathway there through schools and academies for players to progress. Brian Ryan said last year limerick should be aiming to have the minors playing in croke park every 3 years, I think that is an achievable aim and would do much to banish this limerick fear of croke park, the more limerick teams that can come out of Munster the better as they will become accustomed to striving for all Ireland's rather than being happy with a Munster now and again.
It comes down to the work being put into the clubs though, if that falls off then it's very hard to produce players, the county board should be watching this also, if a club is dropping off then they should be having a word and providing assistence if possible, another area is to expand the hurling areas of west limerick, newcastlewest is a big town and should be able to compete at a much higher level of hurling than what it is, this should be targeted as a 'project' to develop hurling, also clubs around the city, claughaun, st Patricks and Old Christians need to get help.

On a side note if anyone has got a spare hour there's a very good podcast on news talk talking to Kilkenny and Kerry's development officers, very interesting stuff they were talking about...interestingly the Kilkenny guy said the tony forristall winners since 1982 had never come on 4 years later to win a minor all Ireland which is noteworthy I think...shows the value in developing players is the ultimate aim not winning things at underage..

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

I don't think there's any reason why limerick need to go back into a lull, at the end of the day if the clubs are producing players then there should be a pathway there through schools and academies for players to progress. Brian Ryan said last year limerick should be aiming to have the minors playing in croke park every 3 years, I think that is an achievable aim and would do much to banish this limerick fear of croke park, the more limerick teams that can come out of Munster the better as they will become accustomed to striving for all Ireland's rather than being happy with a Munster now and again.
It comes down to the work being put into the clubs though, if that falls off then it's very hard to produce players, the county board should be watching this also, if a club is dropping off then they should be having a word and providing assistence if possible, another area is to expand the hurling areas of west limerick, newcastlewest is a big town and should be able to compete at a much higher level of hurling than what it is, this should be targeted as a 'project' to develop hurling, also clubs around the city, claughaun, st Patricks and Old Christians need to get help.

I would take what Brian Ryan says with a large dose of salt in as a manager imo this guy is poor but we'll able to get talk the talk and he thinks he's great manager

He is not

The key will be will people to do work but mccmsnus influence money help is crucial
He certainly still has no problem helping them still by seeing likes padraig Harrington golfer do a talk players few week ago for few hours


I'd have disagree regards clubs
I know clubs doing brilliant work and gdo manager is also


If this fails it's down to director hurling as raw potential there up to limerick academic structure develop these guys to the next level which is Wallis successful done

Clubs won't be able do that in they send potential to academy but good coaching in there is the crucial factor


Director hurling crucial to limerick and it will either fail or succed on how good the new one is imo

paddy no 11

Cant make the game tomorrow either :mad:

Whats our likely team given the selection issues?

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I would take what Brian Ryan says with a large dose of salt in as a manager imo this guy is poor but we'll able to get talk the talk and he thinks he's great manager

He is not

The key will be will people to do work but mccmsnus influence money help is crucial
He certainly still has no problem helping them still by seeing likes padraig Harrington golfer do a talk players few week ago for few hours


I'd have disagree regards clubs
I know clubs doing brilliant work and gdo manager is also


If this fails it's down to director hurling as raw potential there up to limerick academic structure develop these guys to the next level which is Wallis successful done

Clubs won't be able do that in they send potential to academy but good coaching in there is the crucial factor


Director hurling crucial to limerick and it will either fail or succed on how good the new one is imo

Well it would be more about the sentiments that Brian Ryan expressed rather than anything about his managerial philosophy...
the director of academy can't perform miracles, it's the work at the other levels that determine how successful limerick are, the clubs, schools even colleges, the academy can only perfect what is there already, if the players are lacking coming through the academy is not going to be having enough contact hours to make hurlers out of them...while I think jerry wallis done a good job giving him that much credit is a bit much!
I'd argue the credit for the last few years should be going to Na Piarsigh, kilmallock, Doon, Patrickswell, Murroe boher, ard scoil, Doon cbs, castletroy etc. etc. as much as jerry for developing these players and increasing numbers of fellas hurling...he's a cog in the whole machine...

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

Well it would be more about the sentiments that Brian Ryan expressed rather than anything about his managerial philosophy...
the director of academy can't perform miracles, it's the work at the other levels that determine how successful limerick are, the clubs, schools even colleges, the academy can only perfect what is there already, if the players are lacking coming through the academy is not going to be having enough contact hours to make hurlers out of them...while I think jerry wallis done a good job giving him that much credit is a bit much!
I'd argue the credit for the last few years should be going to Na Piarsigh, kilmallock, Doon, Patrickswell, Murroe boher, ard scoil, Doon cbs, castletroy etc. etc. as much as jerry for developing these players and increasing numbers of fellas hurling...he's a cog in the whole machine...

But Wallis started putting the whole structure and organisations in to it

He began coaching the coaches

He brought professionaliwm to limerick minors and under age that was never there before
Training nutrition opposition assement and team bonding trips etc

It never ceases amaze me limerick
He was there he was hero but soon as he's gone he's devalued

Time will show clearly how much Wallis is missed and absence will indeed make heart grow fonder
Clubs can do all work in world but unless academic structure is good they want develop

citykat

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I would take what Brian Ryan says with a large dose of salt in as a manager imo this guy is poor but we'll able to get talk the talk and he thinks he's great manager

He is not

I think you have to separate the coach from the manager here. As a coach he's at it for approx. 20yrs now and is very highly thought of here in KK. He's been an integral part of the squad system management which is recognised as central to KK's success over the last decade or so.
True the KK U21s were beaten last year by the eventual defeated AI finalist. But that was the only game they played last year. That's like assessing JBM on Cork's display against Tipp last year. The KK minors were beaten out the gate by Dublin last year but had the benefit of the back door. There were serious questions about the minor manager after that Dublin game. There's nobody questioning Hoban now.

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

But Wallis started putting the whole structure and organisations in to it

He began coaching the coaches

He brought professionaliwm to limerick minors and under age that was never there before
Training nutrition opposition assement and team bonding trips etc

It never ceases amaze me limerick
He was there he was hero but soon as he's gone he's devalued

Time will show clearly how much Wallis is missed and absence will indeed make heart grow fonder
Clubs can do all work in world but unless academic structure is good they want develop

Gee sorry jerry, no offense intended! It was all you, your the hero, we'd be nothing without you, come back please!

thinkstoomuch1

citykat wrote: »

I think you have to separate the coach from the manager here. As a coach he's at it for approx. 20yrs now and is very highly thought of here in KK. He's been an integral part of the squad system management which is recognised as central to KK's success over the last decade or so.
True the KK U21s were beaten last year by the eventual defeated AI finalist. But that was the only game they played last year. That's like assessing JBM on Cork's display against Tipp last year. The KK minors were beaten out the gate by Dublin last year but had the benefit of the back door. There were serious questions about the minor manager after that Dublin game. There's nobody questioning Hoban now.

What are you on about?????


Kilkenny has nothing do my assement Brian Ryan


Ryan is poor manager, you obviously don't know what went on lead up to the minor final and it'd been mentioned to point here even by limerick posters


Ryan record is poor he had nothing imo do success limerick minors and mcdonagh and wallis deserve huge credo but rather leave at it he wanted full control team selection prior final


Says it all really when he's club man joe mckenna didn't even support him re continue minor role or under twenty one

Mckenna huge influence in he's close jp


Ask majority limerick fans here about Brian Ryan as manager

They don't rate him

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

Gee sorry jerry, no offense intended! It was all you, your the hero, we'd be nothing without you, come back please!

Look no need to be smart

Devalues post straight away

Gerry is not my hero buy in huge fan of great coaches

You talking waffle about clubs doing this and this surely you know clubs be doing work last ten years but changed with wallis putting in proper structure in place along with noel hartigan etc

If you knew limerick hurling you would surely know that
School has played huge part in likes moran, crowe, fergel Lyons, hannon etc and that helped


But quaid done brilliant work under sixteen also

But Wallis was main man at minors and bring in top quality training from under fourteen up

You should check wallis record maybe that's why I praise him

He's proven coach at highest level you do know cork won all Ireland with him

citykat

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

What are you on about?????


Kilkenny has nothing do my assement Brian Ryan

Oops! Somebody mentioned Brian Ryan and KK. I thought you were on about the KK one.

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You talking waffle about clubs doing this and this surely you know clubs be doing work last ten years but changed with wallis putting in proper structure in place along with noel hartigan etc

If you knew limerick hurling you would surely know that
School has played huge part in likes moran, crowe, fergel Lyons, hannon etc and that helped

The only one waffling is you, you've inadvertently agreed with my points there, a) the clubs have to put in the work and b) the schools have helped enormously
I have acknowledged your heros role in all this but you've gone on some rant that he should be getting all the credit for it when the truth is it takes a lot if people and structures to produce successful underage teams, especially from the base limerick were coming from...if it was that easy then all Offaly, Wexford etc. have to do is get the top man into the academy and the rest will look after itself, not that simple...will look forward to Middleton winning the all Ireland club next year if good coaching is such an important factor... And before you come back with some lame reply I acknowledge coaching needs to be correct but is not the be all and end all

thinkstoomuch1

citykat wrote: »

Oops! Somebody mentioned Brian Ryan and KK. I thought you were on about the KK one.

No bother there miles apart like compare mini to a Ferrari in a grand prix race

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

The only one waffling is you, you've inadvertently agreed with my points there, a) the clubs have to put in the work and b) the schools have helped enormously
I have acknowledged your heros role in all this but you've gone on some rant that he should be getting all the credit for it when the truth is it takes a lot if people and structures to produce successful underage teams, especially from the base limerick were coming from...if it was that easy then all Offaly, Wexford etc. have to do is get the top man into the academy and the rest will look after itself, not that simple...will look forward to Middleton winning the all Ireland club next year if good coaching is such an important factor... And before you come back with some lame reply I acknowledge coaching needs to be correct but is not the be all and end all

I have always stated school club huge

But you must have good coaching at inter county otherwise they don't develop next level

Limerick be fair now way more recourses than a club
let's keep it realistic

Good coach get everything out of the team

Poor coaching flatters to deceive as minors last year under Ryan and you will find with seniors this year

The whole under age structure changed under wallis you obviously don't have much knowledgeable information on that

That's fair enough

slegs

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Poor coaching flatters to deceive as minors last year under Ryan and you will find with seniors this year

I dont know Ryan from Adam but to be fair that Limerick team dominated the minor championship last year bar the All Ireland Final where they were still in it up to the death. Very disappointing but there was a fine margin between Ryan being a hero and now him being a failure in your eyes.

Also, you are very sure about Limerick this year being a failure under TJ. Shoving that opinion in our faces over and over again doesnt make it a fact yet. Let the man have his first full year as manager of Limerick.

If he is successful you can come back here and swallow your pride and admit you were wrong (which after reading lots or lot of your posts I have never seen you do once). If he is not successful I am sure we can guess what you will say

Either way I think TJ deserves a bit of support from Limerick folk after a reasonable partial first year.

I dont hear you comment much on JBM anymore. You were very bullish before the Tipp match about where Cork hurling was going. JBM looked a very inexperienced and unassured manager after that one match. Very similar to how you like to judge TJ after a limited viewing.

Fact is that success is not as certain and predetermined as you like to paint it. There are lots of variables at play not just perfect coaching and tactical nous.

paddy no 11

slegs wrote: »

I dont know Ryan from Adam but to be fair that Limerick team dominated the minor championship last year bar the All Ireland Final where they were still in it up to the death. Very disappointing but there was a fine margin between Ryan being a hero and now him being a failure in your eyes.

Also, you are very sure about Limerick this year being a failure under TJ. Shoving that opinion in our faces over and over again doesnt make it a fact yet. Let the man have his first full year as manager of Limerick.

If he is successful you can come back here and swallow your pride and admit you were wrong (which after reading lots or lot of your posts I have never seen you do once). If he is not successful I am sure we can guess what you will say

Either way I think TJ deserves a bit of support from Limerick folk after a reasonable partial first year.

I dont hear you comment much on JBM anymore. You were very bullish before the Tipp match about where Cork hurling was going. JBM looked a very inexperienced and unassured manager after that one match. Very similar to how you like to judge TJ after a limited viewing.

Fact is that success is not as certain and predetermined as you like to paint it. There are lots of variables at play not just perfect coaching and tactical nous.

Not getting ivolved in this just to say, we drew with waterford in the minor munster final and werent convincing the 2nd day either, cork also gave us a game and picked up injuries and we totally underperformed against KK, we did not dominate.

slegs

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Not getting ivolved in this just to say, we drew with waterford in the minor munster final and werent convincing the 2nd day either, cork also gave us a game and picked up injuries and we totally underperformed against KK, we did not dominate.

Dominate the wrong word....but we were the obvious strongest team up until the final. Beat Tipp, Cork, Waterford after Replay and Galway.

Big disappointment to not close it out after that but you got to keep moving forward. Learn and move on

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I have always stated school club huge

But you must have good coaching at inter county otherwise they don't develop next level

Limerick be fair now way more recourses than a club
let's keep it realistic

Good coach get everything out of the team

Poor coaching flatters to deceive as minors last year under Ryan and you will find with seniors this year

The whole under age structure changed under wallis you obviously don't have much knowledgeable information on that

That's fair enough

So school and club is huge now? Isn't that what I was saying? And now you've gone onto coaching of the team , totally different area to producing players from 14 up in a development capacity...

I know the underage scene in limerick well enough to say anyone trying to say one man is responsible for the upturn alone is waffling...before jerry wallis arrived limerick had won the AI under 16? And he only started in 2013, so in 6 months he reconstructed the underage scene and was retrospectively responsible for schools successes in Harty cup?

sure why don't cork appoint your hero and they'll be back winning games in the minor in no time...

Cu Baire

Let's not allow the thread to be all about one poster's opinions.
A wise man once said you can be definite and even dogmatic about something and still be wrong.
Every one has their own opinions and are entitled to hold them and even to share them continuously. Repetition does not make them right (or wrong).
Whether Brian Ryan was a good or bad manager is obviously irrelevant to any rational person when discussing a comment he made about what ambitions Limerick hurling should have.
Again any rational person knows there are a huge number of factors involved in having a successful team in any sport at any level including first of all the skill and ability of the players on the team but also coaching, lifestyle, nutrition, psychological preparation, discipline, luck, tactics, physical fitness, team selection. Because most or all of these factors have to work out then it is easy to always be right with pre conceived ideas about individuals on a management team. If Limerick do not win this year we will be told it was due to more tactical nous. If they win it will be despite poor tactical nous. If Cork win it will be because of the addition of Mark Landers to the management team and if they lose it will be because of the poor refereeing within the county.

Limerick posters have plenty to debate here without getting dragged into circular arguments that will always end in "I told ye so's" regardless of results.

Fireball07

It was disappointing for the minors to lose the final, and the semi-final the year before, and getting into a habit of losing isn't a good thing, obviously. But Limerick people know better than anyone that just winning things at underage level is no use. We had one of the greatest U-21 teams ever seen and they delivered nothing at senior level, they weren't in even in contention most years.


Those minor teams will produce more quality senior players than the vast majority of minor teams in the past and so, will have been a success on that front. The 2005 minor team didn't win the All-Ireland, but are still a success in terms of bringing players through- Condon, GOM, Hickey, Jim-Bob and Richie Mc pretty much backbone the current team, and the likes of Moloney, O'Sullivan and both Eoin and Micheal Ryan have been in and around the setup in the past too.

thinkstoomuch1

Unfortunately youre post can't be backed up

First all I don't try and paint flawed picture regards tj but be fair he gets lot credit here time and again I just give opposite view

People seen here oblivious to he's poor selection policy as even seen by league panel and disaster they now face with injuires in he knew these were there
I have never yes Said I was wrong regards tj as I have no need to
You do realise bar tipp fair enough he actually won nothing last year, cork kilkenny both won

Wexford can't judge four games in month and as you'll find being reader my posts said limerick win handy



Limerick minors as paddy said had problems last year but if Ryan left others do job would been sorted



As regards tippereary game your are incorrect

I'll repost my post you want

I suggest you read it again

I said clearly cork could win was one few said tipp were real danger, in many cork thread said cork would win but I said tactical wise and match up had be spot on or they loose

I never said cork would beat Tipp handy and I said tipp with sweeper worried me but cork could bear kilkenny as their style suits jbm


I have in fact critical jbm match up post tipp and unlike this thread with some and not all they don't critical tj Ryan and give him immunity to such valid critical assement despite having won nothing at inter county manager



You will actually find I called limerick win minor but course no one knew shambles mid week was going happen
I got that wrong the results

I was correct with John Allen only one doubt him tactical wise and I was proven correct totally
I have yet be proven wrong with tj but yes I have no problem saying I was wrong if needs be
I'm sure you'll point out when I'm right though just my opinion of course


Not sounding big headed but seen as you raised point, I'll have defend myself you will imo reading my posts know I'm rarely wrong in judging a manager
I praised Denis ring, Sean Hayes gene o driscoll billy Morgan, paudie Murray, eammon Ryan, ned English as examples good management. Before their success last year and they were



Ones I doubted Donal o sullivan cork minor manager, limerick senior manager and under twenty one and intermediate, cork senior football manager, cork under twenty manager last year you will find I was correct


You should I would suggest ask ground level grass roots fan if they wanted Ryan stay on limerick minor coach
The answer will be a resounding no
Eammon o she's for tipp I rate good manager and don't blame him loss kilkenny in damage tipp was done two years after sheddy left o shea got tipp then they would been better

I don't rate Michael Ryan the new tipp manager next year


To other poster I said many times ard scoil done huge work under age and Joe quaid

Wallis did change huge structure at under age

To keep labelling him as my hero if you trying be smart fine
Wallis is proven coach


Simple point with midelton is midelton I expect be winning cork county

Limerick I'd expect with talent there be winning all Ireland
This year will tell a lot how much Wallis done good limerick
He knew cork hurling scene inside out and always has cork measure

Daly and Leo just my opinion won't have same level against cork


Well see in April and summer no doubt

I can't wait

glasagusban

Your posts are long enough without copying and pasting them up again!

Cu Baire

"Daly and Leo just my opinion won't have same level against cork "

Daly and Leo won't have same level of player either, as you know, which is also an important factor that should not be ignored if and when Cork beat Limerick at minor.

thinkstoomuch1

glasagusban wrote: »

Your posts are long enough without copying and pasting them up again!

Well for my faults even my critice know I'll at least reply posts

You choose to give your your way, and when you don't like opposite view you don't debate but choose sit it out.
You made statement that rain stopped limerick beating kilkenny

You were asked by poster clarify this

You couldn't answer

I'm like that poster waiting here your reply
Thanks

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Well for my faults even my critice know I'll at least reply posts

You choose to give your your way, and when you don't like opposite view you don't debate but choose sit it out.
You made statement that rain stopped limerick beating kilkenny

You were asked by poster clarify this

You couldn't answer

I'm like that poster waiting here your reply
Thanks

Seriously I do believe you'd start an argument with yourself in an empty room!

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

Seriously I do believe you'd start an argument with yourself in an empty room!

Look there was remark at my post was there not
I simply asked that question by other poster regarding rain affecting limerick be answered
Be fair and equal please

That question is unlikely be answered though as poster will just sit back and then again make short snipe my writing style as he always does

He can't or simply won't ask any questions he doesn't like be asked
Imo rain helped limerick v kilkenny greatly

glasagusban

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You made statement that rain stopped limerick beating kilkenny

No I didn't.

willietherock

Back to hurling. Surely Nickey Quaid is worth a go in the halfback line? Limerick selections look ultra conservative atm compared to other counties.

paddy no 11

willietherock wrote: »

Back to hurling. Surely Nickey Quaid is worth a go in the halfback line? Limerick selections look ultra conservative atm compared to other counties.

Not this weekend unfortunately he's only keeper eligible to play at the minute

Fireball07

As Paddy says, Quaid is the only keeper we have at the moment, so has to play there. But I think they do intend trying him outfield during the league when Murphy is back. Hopefully anyway.