*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

zombieHanalei

Right, well that was a lucky escape, a few slices of good fortune helped us along the way but came through in the end. In terms of individual performances Walsh, McCarthy and Hickey put in respectable performances, but as a whole the defensive unit was very porous, go man to man on us and we'll thrive, go direct and we'll cope, but we struggled against a more dynamic forward unit. Dan Morrissey struggled initially but grew into it as the game progressed, not to the extent that you'd say he dominated but his performance was acceptable. Allis was average but doesn't inspire confidence on that showing. Wayne? I try my best to avoid criticising individuals but centre back is now a massive concern for me, Waters cleaned him out. I won't say any more because I have a huge amount of respect for Wayne McNamara.

Another man I have immense respect for is Donal O'Grady, but he has yet to really impose himself this year. Declan Hannon took a bit more responsibility in this game, needs to do that on a regular basis because his input was vital today. David Breen had a good contribution overall, won plenty of ball, Dowling was average if a touch rusty, reliable as ever on the dead balls. John Fitzgibbon put in a respectable shift, got himself a few scores but a few sloppy wides, works hard.

Relieved, was not looking good when eight points down in the middle of the first half, this time we did not have the excuse we had in the Waterford game of having none of our first choice forwards available. Showed character to grind out a result just like the Waterford game but I'd be concerned that lessons weren't learned from the previous occasion we played Wexford. Yes, we hammered them that time but they created plenty of chances in the opening quarter of that game, they carved through our defence that day just like they did today only today they took a lot more of their chances, but it must also be said that they still hit a high amount of wides. Really got away with it today...

Fireball07

If there are positives to take, it's that we had the belief to dig deep and get the win. I don't think we lacked that against KK, but maybe lacked the composure to set up a scoring opportunity to win the game... but we have beaten Tipp late on in the last 2 years, and again today... didn't play well, but had the composure to set up the winning score.


The other clear positive was the goals. Obviously one was a complete fluke and by the sounds of the radio, Fanning had a bit of a nightmare in general but still, it had been a worry for us and we got 4 today. Only thing is we did get 4 against Wexford last season too but I suppose that game was dead and buried after the second really. I'd like to see us put a few past the best teams though... in the quarter-final, whoever we are against, we should target a few goals.

Rightwing

I think it's time DOG was axed.

chases0102

Any sign of some highlights?

paddy no 11

bastards, no highlights, tg4 tomorrow maybe

Vanolder

Half back line a major worry... I don't know how we solve it. Maybe Dodge back there? It looks like Condon will be staying there... Would Dodge work at 6 again? Condon and Wayne either side of him? Gavin may have to move back, he'd be great in the forwards but with Downes coming back and Mulcahy to also come into the equation management might feel we have enough options that end. It's a worry.

paddy no 11

We need to upgrade the half back line not find another average half back, for me that means tomas ryan, nicky or hannon. But we wont win an AI with what we've seen so far so we need to sort it out ASAP. If there's a young fella good enough, ALTC, English, Ronan Lynch then give them a go, just sort it out.

Vanolder

paddy no 11 wrote: »

We need to upgrade the half back line not find another average half back, for me that means tomas ryan, nicky or hannon. But we wont win an AI with what we've seen so far so we need to sort it out ASAP. If there's a young fella good enough, ALTC, English, Ronan Lynch then give them a go, just sort it out.

Lynch and ALTC doing their leaving so they won't be available? Hard to say where English is at but I don't think he's the answer right now...I take your point but I can't see anyone being brought into the panel at this stage.. Nicky would be certainly worth a go, but again, it's hardly going to happen now.

Vanolder

I wasn't there today but listening on the wireless it seemed Wexford won every puckout second half, ours and their own. I know championship is the aim but Management have to be concerned a bit about our general play at present.

Fireball07

The aerial prowess of our team is a major worry- our half-back line can't afford to be cleaned out and neither can our half-forward line. And considering our tactic seems to be relying on quick, direct ball to the full-forward... you have to have a FF who will win the vast majority of ball and I'm not sure we have one. Have to mix it up a bit- play the low diagonals, and the ball in front of a full-forward too.


The thing is Hannon and Dodge were both starting in the half-forward line last year, you'd expect them to compete. Lynch hasn't been great in the air so far, does Breen have to come out to contest? In the forwards, I can't think of someone who will greatly improve that line in that regard- I wouldn't have said that GOM or Downes are way better than Hannon or Breen really, although they are decent.

Half-back is a serious worry still... none of them dominate. Loss of Tom Ryan really is massive as he does have aerial strength. It brings you back to Nicky again........ not sure we can afford to lose him, his safeness and puckouts are top top class but we may have no other option. Dodge back is another option but he's not going to be around forever. You could still move Hickey out but seems unlikely, he is probably the strongest fielder of our current backs.

sasta le

Where is Tom Ryan?

Vanolder

sasta le wrote: »

Where is Tom Ryan?

Gone from the panel.

Jerome O'Connell reporting this morning that TJ let rip at half time-

Ryan- “We might have got a little bit heated at half time but in fairness to this bunch of lads they knew that the standard in the first half wasn’t good enough and they redeemed themselves big time in the second half''

Good to hear, tho I don't know how much of the second half was Wexford failing to push on or us redeeming ourself.

Mehapoy

Vanolder wrote: »

Gone from the panel.

Jerome O'Connell reporting this morning that TJ let rip at half time-

Ryan- “We might have got a little bit heated at half time but in fairness to this bunch of lads they knew that the standard in the first half wasn’t good enough and they redeemed themselves big time in the second half''

Good to hear, tho I don't know how much of the second half was Wexford failing to push on or us redeeming ourself.

I suspect if it was 1a game we'd have found ourselves with a 10 point beating after being 8 points down with the breeze. It's no bad thing for the full back line to get a wake up now and again, stops any complacency setting in, the half back line and, from all accounts, the half forward line were a concern, especially as regards aerial contest. I think centre back is a concern, Wayne Mac while being a lion of a player gets caught in possession too easily and is too laboured with his striking, very hard for a game plan to develop if your centre back is having trouble distributing the ball to the forwards advantage. A lot to work on, and it's early days, the game will have brought on a ton the lads just back, still think waterford may drop a point to Wexford...we just need to win the last 2 games and be on their tail.

paddy no 11

Tipp were one forward off winning the AI last year and judging by performances lately they've solved that problem and will be right there come september.

In the meantime we havent solved our problems. Ok im simplyfiying and there are factors that are outside the coaches control but still its a huge concern. There is no excuse for not at least trying to play some good ball into the forwards.

We'll take the results for the time being and promotion would be a great achievement with limited resources, but still not confident we will be able to put 3 wins back to back against 1a opposition come the summer.

Twoman Fullbackline

I'm still not quite sure how we came away from that match with a win.

We were destroyed in the first half, absolutely taken to the cleaners. The backs, every one of them, were at sea. There was a deceptively strong wind down in Wexford Park, it was holding the ball up - Wexford were out in front every time while we looked stuck to the ground. Guiney had Richie McCarthy beaten up a stick only for the fact that Guiney wasted 9 out of every 10 balls that came in to him. Wayne Mac at centre-back went up for every high-ball in his trademark 'I-am-going-to-bate-this-40-yards-back-up-the-field' style and didn't connect once. The amount of times the sliothar dropped behind the half back line and a Wexford player was first onto it with support players running lines along side them was frightening. Only for terrible wastefulness from Wexford, and one superb save from Nickie Quaid, they should have been out of sight. We were playing O'Grady, Hannon and Reidy as a half-forward line, with Fitzgibbon sitting outside them and Breen and Dowling up front, in fairness the scoreboard was kept ticking over by them, best of the lot were Fitzgibbon, who worked very hard and was on the ball a good bit with some lovely passes, and David Breen, who put in the best corner-forward performance I've seen this year in the first half, out in front each time, controlling the ball played into him, probably should have ended up with a few more scores and set up Fitzgibbon by knocking the ball down to him, Fitzgibbon finished with an exquisite finish to the bottom corner.

I'm presuming the riot act was read to the players at half-time and the defence responded well. The full-back line were very good in the second half and Morrissey in particular also improved from the half-back line. Apart from Fitzgibbon's goal the rest were all bundled in, Dowling miss-hit a free in the first half (he miss-hit a few frees) that somehow sailed into the back of the net, Hannon pulled on a breaking ball for his goal (and should have done likewise minutes later but tried to rise it instead) and Breen reacted first to a save from the Wexford keeper for our fourth goal after we played the ball into the box a number of times like a soccer team 1-0 down in the 90th minute. Hannon and Dowling played as a two-man full-forward line in the second half, with Breen moving out - Breen, who is normally very good in the air, was destroyed by Chin I think who moved onto him when he went to wing-forward. Tobin on the other hand who came on for Dodge was excellent and made two superb catches and caused Wexford plenty of problems.

It was fantastic to come away with the win, but the performance asks a lot of questions. Huge questions still at 6, I do think Condon will start on one wing, whether we see GOM, McNamara or Morrissey on the other is still up in the air. A huge pity Tom Ryan is not involved at this stage. Intelligent ball into the forwards is also at a premium - Playing ball into yards of space in front of Dowling is not productive, more suited to Downes, and Breen on today's showing.

Fireball07

Interesting that you said Breen was very good in the corner, I definitely wouldn't have associated his strengths with playing in the corner, compared to someone like Downes, Mulcahy, Tobin or even Lynch. He's good at breaking ball, and good at running directly through defences, lots of power but he's not the quickest on the turn and I wouldn't say he's the most natural hurler in terms of picking scores off either side.

Not too surprised that he was cleaned by Chin, even if it is a slight worry. Chin is very good in the air, and Breen is better at using his height to break the ball rather than catching cleanly. But the fact that Dodge, Hannon, Breen and Reidy all had time in that line and couldn't win clean possession is a worry- we don't really have anyone else to come in there. Even if they're not winning clean ball, they should be breaking it down and winning the scrap for possession. I really thought that line would be able to hold their own aerially.

If there's one player I wouldn't be worried about come Championship, it's Dowling. He's always delivered on the big day and he will do so again. Never been a huge fan of Hannon inside, he's clinical but we need him on the ball more but I suppose with Downes, Mulcahy unvailable and Tobin just back, we didn't have huge options.


The half-back issues are still there..... we might be okay against Clare who don't really have great ball-winners in attack, but what happens when we go up against Bonner/Gar Ryan, or Harnedy/Cooper, or Fennelly/Reid?


Fair play to John Fitzgibbon though, stepping up in a game like that will be good for his confidence.

Vanolder

Fireball07 wrote: »

Interesting that you said Breen was very good in the corner, I definitely wouldn't have associated his strengths with playing in the corner, compared to someone like Downes, Mulcahy, Tobin or even Lynch. He's good at breaking ball, and good at running directly through defences, lots of power but he's not the quickest on the turn and I wouldn't say he's the most natural hurler in terms of picking scores off either side.

Not too surprised that he was cleaned by Chin, even if it is a slight worry. Chin is very good in the air, and Breen is better at using his height to break the ball rather than catching cleanly. But the fact that Dodge, Hannon, Breen and Reidy all had time in that line and couldn't win clean possession is a worry- we don't really have anyone else to come in there. Even if they're not winning clean ball, they should be breaking it down and winning the scrap for possession. I really thought that line would be able to hold their own aerially.

If there's one player I wouldn't be worried about come Championship, it's Dowling. He's always delivered on the big day and he will do so again. Never been a huge fan of Hannon inside, he's clinical but we need him on the ball more but I suppose with Downes, Mulcahy unvailable and Tobin just back, we didn't have huge options.


The half-back issues are still there..... we might be okay against Clare who don't really have great ball-winners in attack, but what happens when we go up against Bonner/Gar Ryan, or Harnedy/Cooper, or Fennelly/Reid?


Fair play to John Fitzgibbon though, stepping up in a game like that will be good for his confidence.

This is where a game plan comes into play- It doesn't always have to be high ball coming into the forwrd line but with us it always seems to be. Our HB line just don't use the ball well, and i'm going back to last years HB line there- POB and Gavin wasted tonnes of ball last year and this year's crop haven't fared much better. When you look at the calibre of player we know have -Mulcahy, Tobin, Lynch, Downes and even Hannon to an extent- get them low ball out in front of their man, they all have the pace/skill to turn a man... instead we play the 60/40 ball in favour of the defender....

Fireball07

Vanolder wrote: »

This is where a game plan comes into play- It doesn't always have to be high ball coming into the forwrd line but with us it always seems to be. Our HB line just don't use the ball well, and i'm going back to last years HB line there- POB and Gavin wasted tonnes of ball last year and this year's crop haven't fared much better. When you look at the calibre of player we know have -Mulcahy, Tobin, Lynch, Downes and even Hannon to an extent- get them low ball out in front of their man, they all have the pace/skill to turn a man... instead we play the 60/40 ball in favour of the defender....

I'd agree, but there's no doubt in my mind either that both Paudie and Gavin can both do a lot better. They are both able at picking out an accurate pass up to quite a distance. The fact that they are raining balls aimlessly on top of the forwards is because they're not trying to make that pass.

Twoman Fullbackline

As it happens, I'm not saying Breen should play corner-forward - despite yesterday, I think he is required big-time in the half-forward line and will start there in May. However, it should definitely be noted that yesterday he showed he could play there - ball played low into him in the first half, he was well ahead of his man, controlled it well and was able to turn and use it. He isn't the quickest to turn, but he is able to use his size well and fend off the opposing player once he has possesion, and make no mistake he has plenty of pace for his size. The ball he got yesterday was tailor-made for Downes actually. If you asked me to name a front 6 right now with everyone available, I would go for Breen, Hannon, O'Mahoney, Mulcahy, Dowling, Downes. That half-forward line on paper should be able to win their fair share of ball, but it is also about winning the ball broken by them and in that sense you may need more than just Mulcahy in there to sweep it up - would mean bringing Lynch or Fitzgibbon in and probably leaving Downes on the bench. Definitely at least one big name is going to start the Clare match on the bench, its no harm that you will be looking at being able to bring the likes of Downes or Lynch in with 30-20 minutes to go.

As regards the half-back line, as much as I am disinclined to move Hickey it may be time to try him at 6. It weakens the full-back line considerably, but I honestly can't think of a better ready-to-go replacement there if we are to seriously consider shifting Wayne. If you do that, you're probably looking at putting Tom Condon back corner-back, and then let Wayne/Morrissey/GOM fight it out for wing-back spots. Paudie O'Brien is the Kilmallock player who will lose out from their run to the All-Ireland, not a back, won't get a look-in at midfield, certainly not starting anyway, and probably not at half-forward either.

Still a few games to go in the group stages of the League - Offaly and Laois might pose the opportunity to try things out, but one-eye will be kept on promotion at this stage as well.

pajoguy

I cant see us winning promotion without wexford doing us a huge favour against Waterford. The deise will surely pile on the misery at home to Antrim so points difference is out the window as I cant see us maikng it up the 9 points plus whatever they put on Antrim.

Having the kilmallock lads unavailable is a pity but I suppose it has given us a chance to try out a few different combinations.

Sound like fitzgibbon might be another forward option but for once its our backs that we seem to be lacking more so the half backs.

That line needs to be sorted before May. Condon will surely start there now. I would have liked to have seen Hannon given a run at 6 with the discarded/injured tom ryan on the other wing.

Vanolder

I don't get the Hannon to 6 love-in. He's better left playing a freer role.

celticcc1

pajoguy wrote: »

I cant see us winning promotion without wexford doing us a huge favour against Waterford. The deise will surely pile on the misery at home to Antrim so points difference is out the window as I cant see us maikng it up the 9 points plus whatever they put on Antrim.

Having the kilmallock lads unavailable is a pity but I suppose it has given us a chance to try out a few different combinations.

Sound like fitzgibbon might be another forward option but for once its our backs that we seem to be lacking more so the half backs.

That line needs to be sorted before May. Condon will surely start there now. I would have liked to have seen Hannon given a run at 6 with the discarded/injured tom ryan on the other wing.

What's happened to Tom Ryan?

pajoguy

Vanolder wrote: »

I don't get the Hannon to 6 love-in. He's better left playing a freer role.

Well it seems people dont think Wayne isnt enough of a hurler for there and dodge might not have the legs if the opposing centre forward decides to move about.

Have we another fella who we might try there? It might be too open for Hickey who likes to stick like sh*t to a blanket to his man apart from the odd foray up the field.

washman3

If Wexford play with the same intensity as they did yesterday then their game with Waterford will be very close and either team could win it. They will be hurting even more after yesterday as its a game they really should have won.
But the question is, can we beat our bogey team Offaly.??
As our stands at the moment, we are simply not good enough for Div.1
Even more frustrating is the fact that we seem unwilling to sort out problem positions. Surely the games at home to Offaly and Laois will allow us to try something new.

Cu Baire

If we are to be realistic we can prepare for another year in the 2nd division. That's not the end of the world given the current and short term make up of the squad.
Next year will have at least 3 competitive counties in the division with Limerick Wexford and probably Clare coming down, Offaly may improve also.
If we were in the top division this year with the Kilmallock lads out and the injuries/college commitments then I think we would be in serious relegation trouble by now and the new players either would not be tried or would be thrown to the wolves.
Most people would agree that Kilkenny and Clare have stronger extended squads than Limerick and they are both struggling.

Twoman Fullbackline

I wouldn't agree with this "we wouldn't survive in 1A" attitude at all, and I think it does us a disservice. There's very little between the top 8 counties or so at this point in my view. KK fielded the poorest side I've seen them field in a long time against Galway at the weekend. The form in 1A is impossible to read, look at Dublin vs Tipp the first day and look at where both teams stand now after last weekend. Relegation to 1B isn't the disaster it was 2/3 years ago, Wexford's progress means there are three strong teams in the division. It will be a while yet though before Offaly/Laois/Antrim bridge the gap.

I would agree that we are currently weak as regards backup for the defence (and there are players available who are not in the squad) but as regards the forwards, and especially once Mulcahy, Downes and O'Mahoney are all back in action, we would be well able to hold our own.

Cu Baire

Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with this "we wouldn't survive in 1A" attitude at all, and I think it does us a disservice. There's very little between the top 8 counties or so at this point in my view. KK fielded the poorest side I've seen them field in a long time against Galway at the weekend. The form in 1A is impossible to read, look at Dublin vs Tipp the first day and look at where both teams stand now after last weekend. Relegation to 1B isn't the disaster it was 2/3 years ago, Wexford's progress means there are three strong teams in the division. It will be a while yet though before Offaly/Laois/Antrim bridge the gap.

I would agree that we are currently weak as regards backup for the defence (and there are players available who are not in the squad) but as regards the forwards, and especially once Mulcahy, Downes and O'Mahoney are all back in action, we would be well able to hold our own.

Exactly the point I was making. Thank you for agreeing.;)

Twoman Fullbackline

Almost agreeing, perhaps. ;-)

Even with the deficiencies highlighted above, I wouldn't look at the situation and be thankful we are already in division 1B rather than facing relegation to it. Nor do I necessarily think we would be in a relegation battle right now. We are not the only county missing players and with problems to iron out. A relegation battle does put pressure on management/squad, but I do think most people realise at this stage that 1A is so tight that it takes very little to end up facing the drop. Dissatisfaction in Clare with the current situation stems from a much longer run of poor form than a bad start to the league.

There is a desire within Limerick to always come in under the radar, which is understandable, but if you are to be a top county you eventually have to face up to the fact that that means beating top opposition and abandoning the underdog blanket we have clung to for years.

zombieHanalei

Attitudes and ambition need to be adjusted upwards, justifying our presence in 1B is only making excuses, I'm disappointed that some in the county feel as though we are incapable of coping in the top division; that says something about where we really are does it not?

It's not supposed to be easy; that's exactly the point. If you want an easy ride then by all means accept extending our stay out of the top division, but what kind of a standard do we want to set? There is a very real chance we are just about to be unsuccessful for the fourth successive season in our bid to claim the title of the league's 7th best team; are people really okay with that?

I also think this attitude that "we're a championship team" needs to change, one All-Ireland title in 75 years says otherwise. Only one final appearance in 18 years says otherwise. It's a nonsense statement, all teams try to peak for championship, that is not a trait unique to us.

Poor old Clare and Kilkenny are in a relegation battle? Well I can say in full certainty that I can guarantee you that they would gladly take a relegation battle in 1A over playing in 1B every time. 1A is cut-throat, 1B is comfortable. Why settle for comfortable? We won't get comfortable games come July or August should we make it that far.

Cu Baire

1B is not that comfortable as we can't win 5 games to get out of it.
I never said that we are "incapable of coping" in 1A or that we should be "thankful" to be there.
I said that it is not the end of the world because of the current make up of the squad.
Team selection would be different in 1A and some of the players currently getting experience might not have that opportunity.
For the overall development of Limerick hurling it would obviously be better to be in 1A but being in 1B gives certain opportunities to management.
Are ye all forgetting that there is a possibility of playing 3 Div 1A teams in the knockout stages of the league whether promotion is achieved or not?