Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*
Options
Comments
-
Yesterday was very disappointing.
There seemed to be no tactics in our play , no cohesion to it and we seemed to be beat in every position on the field. Being realistic a half forward line of O'Grady, Breen and Hannon is going to struggle to win you any match. I was worried about this match since we played Clare. Clare were missing some of their firepower and got a man sent off yet we struggled to beat them.
In my opinion Clare's tactics beat themselves. In that match the standard of our play was shocking and we were found out yesterday by a team that was ruthless and able to finish there chances.
Nearly every Tipperary puck out went short in the first half and there was always a free man to be picked out , what did management do to counteract this nothing. Tipperary are very strong and have six very good forwards and the simple fact is they are a much better team than us when they are on song because they have forwards that have pace and can score and they play clever ball into space for their forwards. Unlike us , who seem to hit aimless high ball in constantly.
Paudie Maher was free for the whole first half and was allowed do what he liked. Sweeping every ball that came his way, winning most of the Limerick puck outs because we kept pucking the ball down on top of Breen who didn't win any of them. Maher stood behind him totally unmarked picking up all the loose ball and again our management did nothing about this situation.
Everytime Cian Lynch got the ball he was bottled up by three Tipperary men , where was his support? Who's bright idea was it to leave Paudie Maher free, one of the best hurlers in Ireland? Some of the decisions by our management are crazy. I am very worried about the qualifiers, it looks like we will end up meeting one of Cork and Dublin. I can't see us beating any of those two teams on current form.
My reasons for thinking that are, we seemed totally off the pace,
We were aimless with the ball , we don't have any half forwards who can win puck outs or run at there man to open up space. Our backline is all over the shop and we have no options there mainly because we wasted the league constantly using the same players.
The only positives from yesterday was Hannon showed he is well capable of scoring if we get him loose but he cant seem to win any ball and he left the centre back completely free for the entire match. So it is a half negative half positive. Tipperary would have been well happy to let him score 4-5 points if they knew Maher was going to be free for the whole match basically playing like a quarter back when he got the ball because there was no one near him.
The only other positive was Seanie O Brien played quiet well i thought and never gave up. He has serious pace and we need to try and utilise that more.
In my opinion we are going no where and fast under this management. They can't make changes to influence a match, constantly get there tactics wrong and keep persisting with the same under performing players. Also IMO we just don't have a team good enough to win an All Ireland and yesterday showed us how far away we actually are from the top teams like Tipperary and Kilkenny.0 -
In fairness to Tipp yesterday they showed unreal desire. They hassled and harried and worked very hard all over the field. Really played with a point to prove (winning a Munster Championship game for O'Shea) and to built on the all Ireland defeat.
Reminded me a bit of the Cork and Tipp game last year. Match ups were wrong in defence. Richie got no help at all and there was oceans of space in front of him. Hickey was poor and he's not the best man to have loose as he goes AWOL when he's loose. With the wing backs we started Gavin had to play centre and so couldn't interchange with the others when the tipp lads were changing.
Our lads have a big point to prove now and show what they're made of. Could argue they ballsed up against KK, fell flat against cork last year and bottled it against Clare the year before whilst getting lucky against Cork. They're proud hurlers. Let's hope they bounce back.0 -
Horses for courses, you can't just play your 'best' 6 forwards and be done with it, breen brings more physicality to the half forward line, not his biggest fan but he is there to do a job, Downes couldn't do the same job as breen, I think they should start Downes in place of dodge next day to get his confidence up and then see how he does against a higher calibre of opponent, if it's not good enough then at least we know where we are with him...Adrian breen has had chances in the league but never really grasped the opportunity when it came his way, no way could you trust him to start a championship match...
Wouldn't agree breen is limited imo
Dodge has start but as a sweeper
He's pace is gone
Downes can do job as breen but like other breen let's be honest never gets run games to settle where some lads get game after game and still play under standard required0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »It all feels like its unravelling
Outside the first 10 minutes of each half we cant have scored very much, big concern, once the game settled into a pattern and became one of tactics and skill we were comprehensively beaten. Individual performances too played a huge part those are 6 serious forwards, we look to have our 3 best inside and dont get ball to them quick enough and when we do they were totally crowded out.
Puck outs are an issue have been all year, static players waiting for ball to come to them etc
Game plan, we dont have one, and havent all year
Big problems in full back line and have had all year (injuries have played a role here) but not having dempsey available is a huge mistake.
Our attitude to the league was a mistake, while we did get the win over clare (who have their own problems) we were left totally short yesterday.
We simply have to be more tactically aware the next day, we had a breeze worth 6 points yesterday and conceded it by allowing Paidi maher to mop up everything and leaving acres in front of our own full back up against a serious operator, not good enough.
We can call for changes in personnel and some have to be made but really its tactics and approach that are wrong.
That's the bottom line the last three lines
Your system play should be defined by players available which limerick like Cork don't do but limerick players choose their system in made clear before won't like unorthodox style hurling
No limerick manager imo can change the mindset of non traditional game it has to be outsider who is strong resolve and says look we have young lads coming up this is the way we play and if players don't like it can leave and yes old traditional like Tom Ryan and carey saying we can't play short game when they need to ignore such views and stick to changing their style
It will have turbulence as lot change but limerick have to ride out the storm as long term benefits will be better than any short term pain
Way limerick play there getting the odd short term win and it's good but long term going no where close to an all Ireland
I see the same in cork myself
Limerick like Cork if both managers go are in similar scenario in both messed cunningjham about so now options available are slim for both teams get manager
I said this before kinnrrk will never go senior team limerick as he won't be allowed play he's possession game
Daly could take the job down the line but there's lot concerns there also however daly if he had coach could be alright
I actually think Ryan could work if he brought in a top coach0 -
I don't think anyone can questions the bottle or heart of limerickIn fairness to Tipp yesterday they showed unreal desire. They hassled and harried and worked very hard all over the field. Really played with a point to prove (winning a Munster Championship game for O'Shea) and to built on the all Ireland defeat.
Reminded me a bit of the Cork and Tipp game last year. Match ups were wrong in defence. Richie got no help at all and there was oceans of space in front of him. Hickey was poor and he's not the best man to have loose as he goes AWOL when he's loose. With the wing backs we started Gavin had to play centre and so couldn't interchange with the others when the tipp lads were changing.
Our lads have a big point to prove now and show what they're made of. Could argue they ballsed up against KK, fell flat against cork last year and bottled it against Clare the year before whilst getting lucky against Cork. They're proud hurlers. Let's hope they bounce back.
That's never the problem
Problem with clare and yesterday was tactically they were outplayed and you can have all the heart and bottle you want but it needs more
Any team needs to tick all boxes to win just two out of three won't work in the modern game now0 -
Advertisement
-
When I saw the team named I knew our goose was cooked. I'm not blaming any player, they've always given their all, but you'd have to question lads with a couple of weeks training starting and some other fellas are pushing on in years.. These players would have been best used when Tipperary had been run ragged and then introduced. Tactics pre and during the game were a joke, TJ just doesn't have it. While our full back won't use it as an excuse he is playing injured and it caught up with him yesterday, he should have cut out that second goal but wasn't able to use the hurl over his shoulder and missed the ball completely when he stuck out the paw. Both corner backs were destroyed, Bubbles beat his man up big time and I think that man would be best used in the halfback line anyway and Condon moved back into the corner. Dowling was probably the only man that came out of it with positives.
I'd like to see-
Quaid
Walsh-McCarty-Condon
SOB- McNamara-Hickey
Ryan- Browne
Hannon-Downes-OMahony
Mulcahy-Dowling-Lynch.0 -
When I saw the team named I knew our goose was cooked. I'm not blaming any player, they've always given there all, but you'd have to question lads with a couple of weeks training starting and some other fellas are pushing on in years.. These players would have been best used when Tipperary had been run ragged and then introduced. Tactics pre and during the game were a joke, TJ just doesn't have it. While our full back won't use it as an excuse he is playing injured and it caught up with him yesterday, he should have cut out that second goal but wasn't able to use the hurl over his shoulder and missed the ball completely when he stuck out the paw. Both corner backs were destroyed, Bubbles beat his man up big time and I think that man would be best used in the halfback line anyway and Condon moved back into the corner. Dowling was probably the only man that came out of it with positives.
I'd like to see-
Quaid
Walsh-McCarty-Condon
SOB- McNamara-Hickey
Ryan- Browne
Hannon-Downes-OMahony
Mulcahy-Dowling-Lynch.
Be fair you said tippeary would win after ist fifteen minutes and show limerick up and home truths be shown up
You were correct
I wouldn't have Wayne there but I'd have Ryan Hickey and o mahony
Half forward line is one I'd have but I'd have o grady for o mahony but playing between the half back line and midfield as a sweeper
He's reading of the game and leadership is huge
I'd not have o mahony as he's not inter county forward and all Ireland club final showed that
I'd have lynch dropping deep fill gap left by o grady with two man full forward line of dowling and mulchay who with space would do real damage to any defence0 -
We got the same lessen Dublin got, dont play injured players esp in full back line, was unfair on richie, id guess subbing him off was to not do anymore damage to the shoulder injury than anything else. Up to management to get him right or else find an alternative.
For QF
Nicky
walsh McCarthy Hickey
Sweeper
SOB GOM Condon
Fitz Browne
Lynch Hannon Breen
Mulcahy Dowling
Something along those lines for next day, depending on form and fitness. Give the likes of SOB, Fitz, Lynch, condon,breen to run at the opposition and challenge them, our FB line needs cover simple as that. there's a number of players can fill the sweeper role.0 -
Not sure where to start. I don't want to single any one player out but there's a few crying out for change.
Hennessy - I called the puck outs after the Clare game. We were clueless. Tipp did well to cut down sight lines to find passes and when they did he hesitated, visibly changed his mind two or three times, then hit it down on top of a free Paudie Maher. You don't hit puck outs to to Paudie Maher! Especially when he's the free man!!! Out over the sideline, bad short picks, everything went wrong. If Quaid is still out Murphy has to get a go, he deserves it and we need it.
Hickey - Improved on the last day maybe, but where is the guy from last year? I have faith he'll improve.
Richie - WTF. Yet to rewatch. Was he injury hampered?
Walsh - A few good moments but caught out too. Impossible not to be in a defence as overrun as ours. Still feel we need a stronger option and dropping Dempsey was a big mistake.
Seanie - He's a player. Tried hard and did well enough. Maybe shift him back to corner.
Gavin - If he's at 6 we need deep wing forwards and our mids or even a second 6 sitting in front of him. He still did alright.
Condon - Cleaned. Is Wayne Mc really gone that far back that he isn't a better wing back.
Ryan - Never saw him so anonymous. So disappointing, thought he'd be one to at least put in a shift.
Paudie - It galled me to see him sauntering about midfield where Browne would have been racing up and down covering back and making himself free going forward.
Dodge - Past his best now and making him captain may have been a mistake as we need to find a place for him. A sub for the last 25 to drive us home would be the ideal role for him now. Did ok in patches.
Hannon - A rake of scores from play, most of which Dowling handed to him. If he worked half as hard as Dowling it might have changed the tempo of the game but god forbid he'd put in a tackle. Can't argue with the scoring but his work rate was just awful. Was he told to stand off Maher? We've seen him stand toe to toe with big strong centre backs and catch puck outs over their heads, did we hit a single pick out to him? He's capable of so much more.
Breen - Had two weeks hurling in him and it showed. A good and effective player when at his best but starting him was a joke. At least he went and clattered Maher when we were getting steamrolled in the first half. What would Kerry do, start a fight and break up momentum.
Mulcahy - Grand. I wish he'd just take on his man more, especially when bottled up. Force something, win a free. Don't hand pass blindly to the opposition at least.
Dowling - Awesome. Incredible workrate and leadership. Out ahead of his man, chasing players down, tackling, scoring, passing. One free from well inside his own 65 against the wind was massive. Gavin was standing over it and gestured with his hand to go back, too far, Dow kept coming and nailed it. If the rest of the forwards worked half as hard things could have been different. The knockers can go and **** themselves now.
Lynch - Couldn't influence the game the way he did v Clare but still a class act in everything he did.
General team and TJ criticisms to follow.0 -
All over the place today, my latest plan is to play Nicky as a sweeper, with himself and GOM distributing and SOB/Condon attacking up the wings we might have something to offer as well as stopping this haemorrhaging of goals.0
-
Advertisement
-
paddy no 11 wrote: »All over the place today, my latest plan is to play Nicky as a sweeper, with himself and GOM distributing and SOB/Condon attacking up the wings we might have something to offer as well as stopping this haemorrhaging of goals.
0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »Next day
Nicky and Fitz have to come back in
Dodgy only really a sub
Would you have A. Murphy in goal?0 -
-
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Finished he's leaving and wasn't going get involved til after it
Likely to train with them but lynch unfair ask for him save limerick now and this management probably aren't ruthless enough to go against lynch favourite position of he's wants be forward when limerick need him as a back
Tom Ryan man should be tried get back
Riche mac is getting a torrid time and imo unfair as he's been outstanding limerick last few years and one bad game but always done well v callilan even made superb hook last year problem was tippeary dragged him all over the shop just like clare and he had no protection from half back line at all
People blame him need blame system
Lynch worked hard can not be faulted as imo not support well
I also blame management for not having the wisdom to say look ist year you had press media up to clare your not do any v tipp as look tipp they learned with no press evening lead up game and only experience players done media interview
I don't blame lynch at all but should be kept out spotlight by management
Do you see cody allowing young lads doing it so early no he is cute
Limerick half back line needs radical change and also need a sweeper
Agree 100% on Cian Lynch. Do people think he is over cocky. Look at Tony Kelly - and, he has done it all - he seems to be a very quiet unassuming young lad.0 -
Watched it back and somehow its not as bad on replay
Have given the management stick but the players have to take some too
There were some crucial mistakes
Jimbob should have taken his own score early on
Around the 17 min mark both paidi and hickey dropped ball into gleesons hand when they should have had easy scores
hennesseys bad puck outs cost us 3 points the one on 19 mins was crucial compounding the errors above
Richies obvious one for the crucial goal
Dowling was our best player alright but should have tacked on 2 more points from frees at the end of the first half, bonner getting a score the other end off one was a killer
After the penalty we had 4 opportunities for scores, graeme x2 hannon and dodgy, none taken hennessey hit a puck out between 3 players that was tapped over followed by the hennessey-richie-GOM mess up and then the 3rd goal and the game was over.
The tip tapping between jimbob and POB in the first half on the left side was very poor with POB eventually being dispossed, they should have looked at SOB and lynch who took their men on and won
The harsh free against jimbob was caused by him not taking man on
Above combined with tactical errors meant only one result
Hannon needs to assert himself0 -
My worry is Tobin will be drafted in for the westmeath game now and score all around him and start the following day and make no impact. Tobin is most certainly not the answer. Id agree when thinking back we were the masters of our own downfall. Crucial mistakes at crucial times. Forget the last ten mins. Game was over.
We kept tipp scorless for first 7mins and then for nearly first 15 in second half.
Needed those scores after penalty but the mistakes we made were fatal. At this level it is.0 -
Agree 100% on Cian Lynch. Do people think he is over cocky. Look at Tony Kelly - and, he has done it all - he seems to be a very quiet unassuming young lad.
I can tell you hand on heart, that assertion could not be further from the truth. He's a very well adjusted lad, and the family ensure that he will stay that way. He's a showman, that's just his personality. However, he remains very humble even after all the accolades and praise that has been heaped upon him from a young age.
He was easily the key target for Tipp yesterday, any time he was near the ball there were at least two Tipp lads tasked with closing him down. Paddy Stapleton got a yellow for niggling him off the ball within the first 5 minutes. I doubt Dowling and Graeme were given the same extra attention that he was. Whenever he had the ball, he did the best that he could. His vision to spray the ball to DOG in the build up for the penalty was class. We'll need him if we want to make any dent in the championship later on in the year.
We were simply outclassed yesterday. Bubbles was in God mode and Callanan was due a good day off Richie. 2-12 or so between them shows how imperious they were. Work rate was poor all round, although I was impressed with O'Mahony overall. Seanie was very good too in places, he's definitely come a long way since being dropped by John Allen a year or two ago.
Hannon is truly an enigma at this stage. He had a good first ten minutes when he slotted the couple of points, but after that? He faded, and faded, and faded. We say all the time that he has the potential to bring it back, but we are still waiting. He's a tremendous talent, nobody can dispute that whatsoever. However, we know that he can do so much more. When he and Dowling came on the inter-county scene, as good as he is I don't think too many would have tipped Shane to have the greater influence on the senior team. I think it is fair to say he has truly eclipsed Declan in this respect. It's disappointing to type it, as if both were consistently putting on the same level of performance, we'd be a different proposition entirely.
John Fitzgibbon deserves a start the next day, he's showed well in his cameos so far. I'd also give Downesy a full 70 to see how he's doing. A sweeper is definitely worth implementing, we need to shore up our leaky defence, it's getting almost farcical at this stage. It's pretty much a guarantee that we will concede every game. I'd be hopeful of reaching the quarter final if we can properly address our shortcomings the last day. After that, anything can happen.0 -
The media of course want to talk to the young star but maybe the management should just have the captain do it.His father is a local politician that is very fond of the media that pushed gaa in his campaigning so the son is prob very media savy0
-
What a disaster. Massive crowd and the whole thing goes flat. I haven't watched it back yet, but I'd agree with the poster saying the players need to shoulder some of the responsibilty, mistakes were made, there were crucial moments where the points weren't taken, puckouts went astray and it just took the wind out of our sails. However, I wonder how fit some of the players really were. There were noises coming from the Tipp camp regarding injuries in the lead up to the game, and surprises in the lineup which indicated that some players didn't make the cut. The message from Limerick camp, on the other hand was the complete opposite. Injuries were clearing faster than expected, we had almost a full hand to pick from. Now I can only go on rumours posted here and elsewhere and what I see myself from the stands, but Richie Mc, Hickey, Breen and Browne to me didn't appear fully fit. The Dublin-Galway replay was a stark demonstration of the risks attached to starting unfit players and I fear we've been similarly exposed. I don't intend any of this to be harsh personally on the players, not questioning the commitment put in by the squad, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade and frankly discuss where the weaknesses lie.
Richie I think is a deal slower this year and is getting caught yards behind his man if the ball is played into space. Fine if the ball is bombarded down on top of the full forward, but teams now know to create space around him, the game in fairness is evolving away from direct route 1 game into the full-forward. There is this obsession on trying to close down the space between the half and full-back lines rather than addressing the real problem which is that two of our full back-line will be bested in a footrace against most inter-county forwards. I'm generally not a fan of the short puck-out, often the corner back only lumps the ball to where the goalie would have pucked it to anyways, but because we were so intent on dropping deep on Sunday, the Tipp corner backs were able to saunter out with the ball and drive the sliothar beyond our half-back line in front of a full-back line that was at sea. To make matters worse this was when we had the wind, that first half was crying out for Limerick to ensure Gleeson's only option was to go long. Hickey's dip in form is more of an mystery, he had a brilliant year last year, marked some big names in the championship out of it, including TJ Reid who I would rate as the best hurler in the country at the moment, but even since the first Waterford Crystal game I went to this year I think he's been off-form. He also has become more and more inclined to try and win soft frees, going down a bit too easily and refs aren't buying it.
I actually think the half-back line has somewhat improved. I do think we are missing Wayne McNamara there, but not at 6. He's superb at making covering runs and of course he adds physicality to the line. Gavin was very poor at holding the centre as Tipp hit their purple patch in the first half, but improved as the game wore on and was instrumental in the mini-comeback in the second half. If the only other option is to go back to Wayne, I'd like to see more of GOM at 6 before making a final judgement. He has improved a lot on a below par 2014.
The forwards are an enigma. We are hopelessly incapable of opening teams up at the moment. We have this bizarre game plan, a kind of hangover from a combination of planning for Clare and planning without your best 15 available, where we withdraw Hannon out as a third midfielder to crowd everything out and isolate Dowling at full-forward so he can operate in tonnes of space. It doesn't make any sense. You need a pacier player like Kevin Downes up front to properly exploit this so you can play the ball into the space, indeed the best performances Kevin Downes has given for Limerick were when ball was given to him in this scenario, has the speed as well as the power to go through the tackle rather than be hauled down. Instead we are obsessed with driving balls direct into Dowling so he is always coming out with his back to goals. Dowling to be fair improved when he came out half-forward where he is more at home. There's always a lot of comment about his fitness, I think he absolutely has the work-rate required for half forward in fairness, he'll just never be blessed with raw pace. He would also address possesion-winning issues in that line. Hannon improved from the Clare game to be fair but I kind of feel sorry for him as he is playing at 11 in this notion that it is going to get him more involved. Then we send him out with instructions to drop into the middle of no man's land where no one is quite sure what he's meant to be doing and then gets berated on these forumns for not getting into the game. If you want to get him involved put him on the wing, put some puckouts on him and see if he sinks or swims. There's this notion that he's not physical enough, he's shown plenty of physicality in the past and is well able to fetch a puckout as well.
I don't know what the story with injuries is, but either way I would make a few changes for the next day. I think we have to try somebody else at full-back - Richie has been superb the last two years but on form at the moment I think he causes more headaches than he is worth. Condon is really the only obvious choice unless Barry O'Connell is drafted in. It's not ideal as I think the Condon-to-wing-back experiment has gone mostly well, but he has form playing there and won't be caught badly for pace against most forwards. I would also consider Hickey's jersey up for grabs, but we are also not blessed with tried and trusted corner-backs. Above all, we need someone with speed in that line. Fitzgibbon has to start the next day, has shown a real desire to work any time I have seen him and is a superb stickman, one of the best we have. I know there's an argument against breaking up the Browne-Ryan midfield parternship but if we are going to continue with dropping the centre-forward deep, a la Tony Kelly, you might as well play Browne there as he will close down players better, work off of breaks from the two wings better and would be far better running at the backs. Hopefully some more of the recent minors will be called up to the panel also.0 -
A bit of personality is no harm, he seems like a very down to earth fella who's enjoying his first championship season, do people want them all like Kilkenny players, no personality, afraid to smile after winning a game, let him enjoy the limelight, if it's effecting his game people close to him and himself won't be long recognising it...between players not being allowed go out, give an interview or an opinion People won't be happy until we take all the joy out of the thing...Agree 100% on Cian Lynch. Do people think he is over cocky. Look at Tony Kelly - and, he has done it all - he seems to be a very quiet unassuming young lad.0 -
Advertisement
-
Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »I don't know what the story with injuries is, but either way I would make a few changes for the next day. I think we have to try somebody else at full-back - Richie has been superb the last two years but on form at the moment I think he causes more headaches than he is worth. Condon is really the only obvious choice unless Barry O'Connell is drafted in.
I'd be looking to steer clear of Barry anyway. In the couple of games I've seen for the intermediates, he has been poor enough in my opinion and was getting caught out regularly by lesser opposition. He's powerful no doubt, but he also lacks pace. Richie would have far more hurling ability than him aswell.
I definitely do think it is worth trying an alternative at full back for the Westmeath game however. We're not exactly blessed with options though unfortunately.0 -
Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »What a disaster. Massive crowd and the whole thing goes flat. I haven't watched it back yet, but I'd agree with the poster saying the players need to shoulder some of the responsibilty, mistakes were made, there were crucial moments where the points weren't taken, puckouts went astray and it just took the wind out of our sails. However, I wonder how fit some of the players really were. There were noises coming from the Tipp camp regarding injuries in the lead up to the game, and surprises in the lineup which indicated that some players didn't make the cut. The message from Limerick camp, on the other hand was the complete opposite. Injuries were clearing faster than expected, we had almost a full hand to pick from. Now I can only go on rumours posted here and elsewhere and what I see myself from the stands, but Richie Mc, Hickey, Breen and Browne to me didn't appear fully fit. The Dublin-Galway replay was a stark demonstration of the risks attached to starting unfit players and I fear we've been similarly exposed. I don't intend any of this to be harsh personally on the players, not questioning the commitment put in by the squad, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade and frankly discuss where the weaknesses lie.
Richie I think is a deal slower this year and is getting caught yards behind his man if the ball is played into space. Fine if the ball is bombarded down on top of the full forward, but teams now know to create space around him, the game in fairness is evolving away from direct route 1 game into the full-forward. There is this obsession on trying to close down the space between the half and full-back lines rather than addressing the real problem which is that two of our full back-line will be bested in a footrace against most inter-county forwards. I'm generally not a fan of the short puck-out, often the corner back only lumps the ball to where the goalie would have pucked it to anyways, but because we were so intent on dropping deep on Sunday, the Tipp corner backs were able to saunter out with the ball and drive the sliothar beyond our half-back line in front of a full-back line that was at sea. To make matters worse this was when we had the wind, that first half was crying out for Limerick to ensure Gleeson's only option was to go long. Hickey's dip in form is more of an mystery, he had a brilliant year last year, marked some big names in the championship out of it, including TJ Reid who I would rate as the best hurler in the country at the moment, but even since the first Waterford Crystal game I went to this year I think he's been off-form. He also has become more and more inclined to try and win soft frees, going down a bit too easily and refs aren't buying it.
I actually think the half-back line has somewhat improved. I do think we are missing Wayne McNamara there, but not at 6. He's superb at making covering runs and of course he adds physicality to the line. Gavin was very poor at holding the centre as Tipp hit their purple patch in the first half, but improved as the game wore on and was instrumental in the mini-comeback in the second half. If the only other option is to go back to Wayne, I'd like to see more of GOM at 6 before making a final judgement. He has improved a lot on a below par 2014.
The forwards are an enigma. We are hopelessly incapable of opening teams up at the moment. We have this bizarre game plan, a kind of hangover from a combination of planning for Clare and planning without your best 15 available, where we withdraw Hannon out as a third midfielder to crowd everything out and isolate Dowling at full-forward so he can operate in tonnes of space. It doesn't make any sense. You need a pacier player like Kevin Downes up front to properly exploit this so you can play the ball into the space, indeed the best performances Kevin Downes has given for Limerick were when ball was given to him in this scenario, has the speed as well as the power to go through the tackle rather than be hauled down. Instead we are obsessed with driving balls direct into Dowling so he is always coming out with his back to goals. Dowling to be fair improved when he came out half-forward where he is more at home. There's always a lot of comment about his fitness, I think he absolutely has the work-rate required for half forward in fairness, he'll just never be blessed with raw pace. He would also address possesion-winning issues in that line. Hannon improved from the Clare game to be fair but I kind of feel sorry for him as he is playing at 11 in this notion that it is going to get him more involved. Then we send him out with instructions to drop into the middle of no man's land where no one is quite sure what he's meant to be doing and then gets berated on these forumns for not getting into the game. If you want to get him involved put him on the wing, put some puckouts on him and see if he sinks or swims. There's this notion that he's not physical enough, he's shown plenty of physicality in the past and is well able to fetch a puckout as well.
I don't know what the story with injuries is, but either way I would make a few changes for the next day. I think we have to try somebody else at full-back - Richie has been superb the last two years but on form at the moment I think he causes more headaches than he is worth. Condon is really the only obvious choice unless Barry O'Connell is drafted in. It's not ideal as I think the Condon-to-wing-back experiment has gone mostly well, but he has form playing there and won't be caught badly for pace against most forwards. I would also consider Hickey's jersey up for grabs, but we are also not blessed with tried and trusted corner-backs. Above all, we need someone with speed in that line. Fitzgibbon has to start the next day, has shown a real desire to work any time I have seen him and is a superb stickman, one of the best we have. I know there's an argument against breaking up the Browne-Ryan midfield parternship but if we are going to continue with dropping the centre-forward deep, a la Tony Kelly, you might as well play Browne there as he will close down players better, work off of breaks from the two wings better and would be far better running at the backs. Hopefully some more of the recent minors will be called up to the panel also.
I'd agree with most of that but I wonder were you watching the same match as me with your comments on Dowling. You seem to be commenting on perceptions of Dowling rather than his last game, more comfortable wing forward, lack of pace etc. He was exceptional last Sunday. Out in front of his man time after time, chasing down Tipp players in possession, one of our only forwards to bother with this type of work, he chased down a Tipp defender emerging with the ball for 40 yards and turned it over and won a sideline at one point (lack of pace?). I'd say most of Hannon's scores came from balls Dowling won and laid off for him to tap over. Also, based on last weekend I wouldn't call condon a success at wing back and I think he has to shift back to the corner or drop out at this stage.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »I'd agree with most of that but I wonder were you watching the same match as me with your comments on Dowling. You seem to be commenting on perceptions of Dowling rather than his last game, more comfortable wing forward, lack of pace etc. He was exceptional last Sunday. Out in front of his man time after time, chasing down Tipp players in possession, one of our only forwards to bother with this type of work, he chased down a Tipp defender emerging with the ball for 40 yards and turned it over and won a sideline at one point (lack of pace?). I'd say most of Hannon's scores came from balls Dowling won and laid off for him to tap over. Also, based on last weekend I wouldn't call condon a success at wing back and I think he has to shift back to the corner or drop out at this stage.
I can only judge Dowling on what I've seen in games this year and anytime he has moved out to the half-forward line he has come into the game in my opinion. He's strong in the air, has a desire to work, as I said in my own post, I believe he actually does have the work-rate required for the half-forward line, the incident you highlighted where he chased down the player in possession being a case in point. My problem with him full-forward is I don't see him as a player to turn and put the head down and go for goal, I don't think he has the raw power and quickness of feet required for that. That's not the same as saying he is not fit, he is well able to put himself about, as I've said. A lot of the balls being played are going straight down his throat which means he is coming away from goals to collect, which is far from ideal either.
Condon had a poor year I felt in the corner last year and was at fault for a number of goals, I think it was entirely justified decision to move him out of there. He seemed to have one of those games that passed him by on Sunday and I'd need to watch the match again to properly evaluate how it went for him. Based on the other games he's played there this year, I felt his presence at wing-back improved the line.0 -
Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »I can only judge Dowling on what I've seen in games this year and anytime he has moved out to the half-forward line he has come into the game in my opinion. He's strong in the air, has a desire to work, as I said in my own post, I believe he actually does have the work-rate required for the half-forward line, the incident you highlighted where he chased down the player in possession being a case in point. My problem with him full-forward is I don't see him as a player to turn and put the head down and go for goal, I don't think he has the raw power and quickness of feet required for that. That's not the same as saying he is not fit, he is well able to put himself about, as I've said. A lot of the balls being played are going straight down his throat which means he is coming away from goals to collect, which is far from ideal either.
Condon had a poor year I felt in the corner last year and was at fault for a number of goals, I think it was entirely justified decision to move him out of there. He seemed to have one of those games that passed him by on Sunday and I'd need to watch the match again to properly evaluate how it went for him. Based on the other games he's played there this year, I felt his presence at wing-back improved the line.
What are people feelings on changes to be made For Westmeath, there will be no wholesale changes that's for sure, personally I'd be giving paudie O'Brien, dodge at least a start on the bench. Could drop a whole lot more really but that won't happen, you'd have to give them a chance to redeem themselves, Breen will get another game for match practice
Would tell mulcahy he's getting a half to make something happen, then replaced by Tobin, same with hannon, replaced by Downes, backs have nobody really to come in(how we could do with Dempsey and tom Ryan) so no real changes to be made...I'd like to see how Seanie O'Brien, Browne and Ryan combine in middle third.
Assuming quaid is fit he's back in goals, otherwise probably have to stick with Hennessy in goals:
Quaid/Hennessy
S Walsh, r McCarty, s hickey
D Morrissey or w McN g O Mahoney
T Condon
S O'Brien j Ryan
P Browne d hannon d breen
C lynch s Dowling g mulcahy0 -
Sunday, July 5
Westmeath v Limerick, Cusack Park, Mullingar, 2pm0 -
Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »I can only judge Dowling on what I've seen in games this year and anytime he has moved out to the half-forward line he has come into the game in my opinion. He's strong in the air, has a desire to work, as I said in my own post, I believe he actually does have the work-rate required for the half-forward line, the incident you highlighted where he chased down the player in possession being a case in point. My problem with him full-forward is I don't see him as a player to turn and put the head down and go for goal, I don't think he has the raw power and quickness of feet required for that. That's not the same as saying he is not fit, he is well able to put himself about, as I've said. A lot of the balls being played are going straight down his throat which means he is coming away from goals to collect, which is far from ideal either.
Condon had a poor year I felt in the corner last year and was at fault for a number of goals, I think it was entirely justified decision to move him out of there. He seemed to have one of those games that passed him by on Sunday and I'd need to watch the match again to properly evaluate how it went for him. Based on the other games he's played there this year, I felt his presence at wing-back improved the line.
I think you've put your finger on something there with balls being played at him coming away from goals. And while he has pace to get out in front and win them, you're right he's not a quick on the turn type player to turn and go to goals. He is very strong and powerful though. I think the issue with this though is the ball being payed in. We don't appear to have much clue how to work a goal and our forwards have nothing like the movement of Tipp, or even Clare. I think that's the problem rather than dowling's suitability. I think you're right he can play wing as well, but he's naturally best at full
You're right on Condon last year I think. But I'm not sure we can judge on him doing well in 1B at wing back.What are people feelings on changes to be made For Westmeath, there will be no wholesale changes that's for sure, personally I'd be giving paudie O'Brien, dodge at least a start on the bench. Could drop a whole lot more really but that won't happen, you'd have to give them a chance to redeem themselves, Breen will get another game for match practice
Would tell mulcahy he's getting a half to make something happen, then replaced by Tobin, same with hannon, replaced by Downes, backs have nobody really to come in(how we could do with Dempsey and tom Ryan) so no real changes to be made...I'd like to see how Seanie O'Brien, Browne and Ryan combine in middle third.
Assuming quaid is fit he's back in goals, otherwise probably have to stick with Hennessy in goals:
Quaid/Hennessy
S Walsh, r McCarty, s hickey
D Morrissey or w McN g O Mahoney
T Condon
S O'Brien j Ryan
P Browne d hannon d breen
C lynch s Dowling g mulcahy
Have heard it said ALTC and Ronan Lynch are being added to the panel. I would start Lynch wing back. I'd also start Wayne Mc. Probably leave Gavin in centre and allow Seanie move back to corner, or even to midfield or wing forward. Downes has to start. Paudie and Dodge both must drop to the bench. Hannon needs to up the work rate and I'd move him to wing and actually hit puck outs on top of him. Finally, I don't think Quaid is fit again yet or if he will be before the end of summer. But Hennessy hasn't been a success in goals and Murphy surely deserves a chance, really have to make a change here.
Murphy
Hickey
Richie
Condon/Walsh/Seanie
R Lynch
Gavin
Wayne Mc
Browne
Ryan/S O'Brien
Hannon
Downes
Breen/S O'Brien/Lynch/Reidy
Mulcahy
Dowling
Lynch/Downes/Tobin
I realise I've a lot of and/or's in there but it just shows we can make changes and still have options within the team. A few have played their way off the team and can only be suitable as impact subs at this stage. Downes and Browne have to come into the team IMO, Downes especially needs to be given a proper chance to develop some confidence, 70 mins involved at 11 should do that. Browne needs to be restored to midfield where his running and work rate have been sorely missed. A few others, the forwards especially need to understand they'll be subbed if the work rate drops anything below manic levels.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »I think you've put your finger on something there with balls being played at him coming away from goals. And while he has pace to get out in front and win them, you're right he's not a quick on the turn type player to turn and go to goals. He is very strong and powerful though. I think the issue with this though is the ball being payed in. We don't appear to have much clue how to work a goal and our forwards have nothing like the movement of Tipp, or even Clare. I think that's the problem rather than dowling's suitability. I think you're right he can play wing as well, but he's naturally best at full
You're right on Condon last year I think. But I'm not sure we can judge on him doing well in 1B at wing back.
Have heard it said ALTC and Ronan Lynch are being added to the panel. I would start Lynch wing back. I'd also start Wayne Mc. Probably leave Gavin in centre and allow Seanie move back to corner, or even to midfield or wing forward. Downes has to start. Paudie and Dodge both must drop to the bench. Hannon needs to up the work rate and I'd move him to wing and actually hit puck outs on top of him. Finally, I don't think Quaid is fit again yet or if he will be before the end of summer. But Hennessy hasn't been a success in goals and Murphy surely deserves a chance, really have to make a change here.
Murphy
Hickey
Richie
Condon/Walsh/Seanie
R Lynch
Gavin
Wayne Mc
Browne
Ryan/S O'Brien
Hannon
Downes
Breen/S O'Brien/Lynch/Reidy
Mulcahy
Dowling
Lynch/Downes/Tobin
I realise I've a lot of and/or's in there but it just shows we can make changes and still have options within the team. A few have played their way off the team and can only be suitable as impact subs at this stage. Downes and Browne have to come into the team IMO, Downes especially needs to be given a proper chance to develop some confidence, 70 mins involved at 11 should do that. Browne needs to be restored to midfield where his running and work rate have been sorely missed. A few others, the forwards especially need to understand they'll be subbed if the work rate drops anything below manic levels.
To be fair to Dowling, he is actually very good with the ball coming away from goals and finding space for the shot, but if we are to have any hope of increasing our goal count, we need to be more direct at 14. Downes and to a lesser extent Breen are the only players we have who have the natural instinct to turn at the backs and go. I think this messing about with Downes at corner-forward and wing forward has to stop, give him a proper run at 14 or 11, but preferably 14 for now, get ball into him that will suit him with the instructions to put the head down as much as possible.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »Finally, I don't think Quaid is fit again yet or if he will be before the end of summer. But Hennessy hasn't been a success in goals and Murphy surely deserves a chance, really have to make a change here.
.
Read yesterday on the Leader that Quaid is back for the qualifiers.Limerick Leader wrote:Ryan will have suspended Seanie Tobin and injured goalkeeper Nickie Quaid back for the Qualifiers and hinted that changes could be abound.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/limerick-hurlers-drawn-away-to-westmeath-1-68099400 -
Colm Galvin back for clare, SOS to one Alan Dempsey please.0
-
Advertisement
-
paddy no 11 wrote: »Colm Galvin back for clare, SOS to one Alan Dempsey please.
I don't think he has a chance as long as TJ is in charge unfortunately.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement