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*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*
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plannerscanner wrote: »I have thanked a few posts so just need to clarify
TTM - you make some great points and when I have the energy I love reading/deciphering your posts. No harm to re-read before posting and perhaps a small bit of editing.
As for LK - it has been coming. They looked more like the U21 team TJ was in charge of then AI contenders we thought after KK last year. TTM points to a lot of issues that have been totally ignored.
No sweeper against the strongest forward line in the country - that's just naive.
Breen not fully fit and clear to see after 10 mins (unable to win ball from own puckout or cover two players on Tipp puckout) - had to wait until HT for change.
Wayne Mc not seen until 65th minute - could have been useful from 15th min onwards.
No discernable plan to score goals - half forward line need to support FF line and vice-versa in order to create genuine scoring chances.
We did have a sweeper though. Brendan Maher at 11 played out around midfield mostly and O'Meara named a corner forward played deep which left Walsh free mostly. We could have done with the free man out around the middle third though where Tipp men were completely dominant and had loads of time to deliver excellent ball to their inside forwards.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »We did have a sweeper though. Brendan Maher at 11 played out around midfield mostly and O'Meara named a corner forward played deep which left Walsh free mostly. We could have done with the free man out around the middle third though where Tipp men were completely dominant and had loads of time to deliver excellent ball to their inside forwards.
We only really had the sweeper on our own puck outs though, and chose not to go short, either way its not like walsh was screening in front of richie to cut out the likesof the 2nd goal. He did once or twice but not often, it was smart from tipp pull back maher to where they knew the ball would be landing, they'd a fair idea we wouldnt have the skill to work it upfield if we went short or if we tried that their half forwards would hassle us into delivering rubbish ball.
Incidentally we came pretty close to turning over some of their short puck outs a bit more hasssle and we could have got scores from it, but the work rate just wasnt there.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »We did have a sweeper though. Brendan Maher at 11 played out around midfield mostly and O'Meara named a corner forward played deep which left Walsh free mostly. We could have done with the free man out around the middle third though where Tipp men were completely dominant and had loads of time to deliver excellent ball to their inside forwards.
You nailed it there by pointing out ye had a sweeper but was not effectively used and that's down to management
Clare showed up how bad ye play sweeper as ye never practice it when they played ye but only for injury player clare would won that game
Clare game was papering over the cracks
Ye'll score six goal v westmeath probably conceded none and fickle naive fans will say ah tipp was bad day were on the road again
If ye play kk ye have to pray it rains and rains and rains as dry day allows kk play pace tempo and drag limerick all over croke park and like kilmsllock croke park it could be long long day for Limerick
Ryan won't change he's team much and only change is likely be tobin and Wayne mac and they won't solve the problem ye have imo0 -
Looking at the team structurally we are all over the place. Two of our full-back line will be beaten pace-wise by most inter-county forwards. You can maybe get away with one slower player in that line, but certainly not two. Our half-forward line has a centre-forward sitting deep presumably to try and drag the centre-back out of the centre, but he is neither the type of player who will be effective in midfield nor is he the type of player who will run at the gap he is creating. Possibly our best puckout option is on the edge of the square, we only feed him by lofting the ball in front of him so he has to race away from goals to fetch.
Go with the following against Westmeath, depending on fitness:
Quaid
King Condon Hickey
Wayne O'Mahoney S O'Brien
Ryan Fitzgibbon
Dowling Browne Hannon
Mulcahy Downes Lynch
We badly need cover in the full-back line, we used the same full-back line over and over throughout the Waterford Crystal and League, the same one which was roasted on Sunday. Try King there with Condon at full-back, was probably out of position during the league at midfield, he's never really gotten a proper chance at corner-back, see how we fare when the full-back line is the fastest line on the pitch.
Put Browne at centre-forward with the same ploy of dropping off the centre-back and it will be a lot more effective. You don't really lose his presence at midfield and you have a player who can actually attack the central channel. Dowling and Hannon as your puckout targets, Browne and either of Mulcahy and Lynch combining to latch onto breaks and hassle the defender coming out with the ball.
Downes at the edge of the square with corner-forwards moving to try and create space to play ball in to the left and right of him at full.
Westmeath game probably won't be able to tell us a whole lot, but if we're lethargically struggling to pull away and open them up as we did against teams all through the league then it actually tells us all we need to know.0 -
Nobody but nobody will think that after the Westmeath game, in fact alot I talked to have written off the year, I don't know these Limerick supporters you talk to but after Sunday any all Ireland ambitions would be smashed. The result in the Westmeath game will have no bearing on limericks expectations, I imagine everybody will expect to hockey them by 20 points so its a no-win game really.thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »You nailed it there by pointing out ye had a sweeper but was not effectively used and that's down to management
Clare showed up how bad ye play sweeper as ye never practice it when they played ye but only for injury player clare would won that game
Clare game was papering over the cracks
Ye'll score six goal v westmeath probably conceded none and fickle naive fans will say ah tipp was bad day were on the road again
If ye play kk ye have to pray it rains and rains and rains as dry day allows kk play pace tempo and drag limerick all over croke park and like kilmsllock croke park it could be long long day for Limerick
Ryan won't change he's team much and only change is likely be tobin and Wayne mac and they won't solve the problem ye have imo0 -
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Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »Looking at the team structurally we are all over the place. Two of our full-back line will be beaten pace-wise by most inter-county forwards. You can maybe get away with one slower player in that line, but certainly not two. Our half-forward line has a centre-forward sitting deep presumably to try and drag the centre-back out of the centre, but he is neither the type of player who will be effective in midfield nor is he the type of player who will run at the gap he is creating. Possibly our best puckout option is on the edge of the square, we only feed him by lofting the ball in front of him so he has to race away from goals to fetch.
Go with the following against Westmeath, depending on fitness:
Quaid
King Condon Hickey
Wayne O'Mahoney S O'Brien
Ryan Fitzgibbon
Dowling Browne Hannon
Mulcahy Downes Lynch
We badly need cover in the full-back line, we used the same full-back line over and over throughout the Waterford Crystal and League, the same one which was roasted on Sunday. Try King there with Condon at full-back, was probably out of position during the league at midfield, he's never really gotten a proper chance at corner-back, see how we fare when the full-back line is the fastest line on the pitch.
Put Browne at centre-forward with the same ploy of dropping off the centre-back and it will be a lot more effective. You don't really lose his presence at midfield and you have a player who can actually attack the central channel. Dowling and Hannon as your puckout targets, Browne and either of Mulcahy and Lynch combining to latch onto breaks and hassle the defender coming out with the ball.
Downes at the edge of the square with corner-forwards moving to try and create space to play ball in to the left and right of him at full.
Westmeath game probably won't be able to tell us a whole lot, but if we're lethargically struggling to pull away and open them up as we did against teams all through the league then it actually tells us all we need to know.
I agree most that
But trust me as being Cork man I seen it numerous times us rarely do corner backs make full back
Condon is fine corner back but it's a disaster waiting happen at full back
Leave riche there but change half back line and play a sweeper and ye won't concede goals
Corner back full back makes a problem ten times worse than it is and against Westmeath Condon be fine but against direct orthodox full forward line he'll be cleaned out
That half back line is poor as proven many times Wayne mac o mahony lacks pace and movement and you can only facilities one them with Gavin better option
Ryan Hickey o brien be better with o grady sweeping around them
You must have pace in the middle third
The last two games exposed limerick lack of it0 -
Nobody but nobody will think that after the Westmeath game, in fact alot I talked to have written off the year, I don't know these Limerick supporters you talk to but after Sunday any all Ireland ambitions would be smashed. The result in the Westmeath game will have no bearing on limericks expectations, I imagine everybody will expect to hockey them by 20 points so its a no-win game really.
I wouldn't be so sure with respect you see it in most counties and if you look here at some stuff written in January and even up last week by the odd one or two they still failed be realistic with this team
Beating westmeath won't convince realistic fan but you will get the one that says tipp was just a bad day0 -
If you could get Downes back to the 2011 form where he was doing just that and the team was setup to facilitate that would be great, two issues can the management set the team out to do that and that was 4 years ago is he the same player as then, he has done very little since, whether through injury, na piarsigh club runs, form etc. has effected himTwoman Fullbackline wrote: »Looking at the team structurally we are all over the place. Two of our full-back line will be beaten pace-wise by most inter-county forwards. You can maybe get away with one slower player in that line, but certainly not two. Our half-forward line has a centre-forward sitting deep presumably to try and drag the centre-back out of the centre, but he is neither the type of player who will be effective in midfield nor is he the type of player who will run at the gap he is creating. Possibly our best puckout option is on the edge of the square, we only feed him by lofting the ball in front of him so he has to race away from goals to fetch.
Go with the following against Westmeath, depending on fitness:
Quaid
King Condon Hickey
Wayne O'Mahoney S O'Brien
Ryan Fitzgibbon
Dowling Browne Hannon
Mulcahy Downes Lynch
We badly need cover in the full-back line, we used the same full-back line over and over throughout the Waterford Crystal and League, the same one which was roasted on Sunday. Try King there with Condon at full-back, was probably out of position during the league at midfield, he's never really gotten a proper chance at corner-back, see how we fare when the full-back line is the fastest line on the pitch.
Put Browne at centre-forward with the same ploy of dropping off the centre-back and it will be a lot more effective. You don't really lose his presence at midfield and you have a player who can actually attack the central channel. Dowling and Hannon as your puckout targets, Browne and either of Mulcahy and Lynch combining to latch onto breaks and hassle the defender coming out with the ball.
Downes at the edge of the square with corner-forwards moving to try and create space to play ball in to the left and right of him at full.
Westmeath game probably won't be able to tell us a whole lot, but if we're lethargically struggling to pull away and open them up as we did against teams all through the league then it actually tells us all we need to know.
I like the idea of injecting pace and runners around the centre through Seanie O'Brien, Browne, Fitzgibbon and Conan Lynch, certainly the half forward line that started the last day had absolutely no pace in it.can Dowling fit into that away from full forward is another question, he is our only effective forward really at the moment, whether that's because of the game plan or other players form0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I agree most that
But trust me as being Cork man I seen it numerous times us rarely do corner backs make full back
Condon is fine corner back but it's a disaster waiting happen at full back
Leave riche there but change half back line and play a sweeper and ye won't concede goals
Corner back full back makes a problem ten times worse than it is and against Westmeath Condon be fine but against direct orthodox full forward line he'll be cleaned out
That half back line is poor as proven many times Wayne mac o mahony lacks pace and movement and you can only facilities one them with Gavin better option
Ryan Hickey o brien be better with o grady sweeping around them
You must have pace in the middle third
The last two games exposed limerick lack of it
I don't know if Condon would be cleaned out, he has played there a few times over the years. Condon to corner-back would improve pace issues enough to allow for Richie,but I do think Richie has struggled more and more as this year has wore on.
Wayne is under-rated I feel, I prefer GOM to centre-back as he uses the ball better, but Wayne does a lot of covering from half-back that goes unnoticed. I'd absolutely love to see Tom Ryan at no.7 and would have him straight in but it does not look like it is going to happen this year. O'Brien not best suited to wing-back I think, but as you allude to we need pace in this line and he has done well in games played thus far.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »You nailed it there by pointing out ye had a sweeper but was not effectively used and that's down to management
Clare showed up how bad ye play sweeper as ye never practice it when they played ye but only for injury player clare would won that game
Clare game was papering over the cracks
If we are to play a sweeper it should be on our own terms - and not because Tipp tactics provided it. LK badly needed a man sweeping in front of Richie on a permanent basis ensuring a second line of defence whether attacks were coming from accurate 50 meter stick passes or penetrating runs down the middle. This cannot be achieved when playing unfit/immobile players in the half forward line. Whoever plays the next day against Westmeath I hope that they are picked to implement a plan that suits their skillset.0 -
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glasagusban wrote: »We did have a sweeper though. Brendan Maher at 11 played out around midfield mostly and O'Meara named a corner forward played deep which left Walsh free mostly. We could have done with the free man out around the middle third though where Tipp men were completely dominant and had loads of time to deliver excellent ball to their inside forwards.
We needed a 7th man in defence on Sunday - if Walsh was free as you say he was, he was obviously not free to fill the space in front of Richie & I can only blame the manager for that.0 -
Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »Looking at the team structurally we are all over the place. Two of our full-back line will be beaten pace-wise by most inter-county forwards. You can maybe get away with one slower player in that line, but certainly not two. Our half-forward line has a centre-forward sitting deep presumably to try and drag the centre-back out of the centre, but he is neither the type of player who will be effective in midfield nor is he the type of player who will run at the gap he is creating. Possibly our best puckout option is on the edge of the square, we only feed him by lofting the ball in front of him so he has to race away from goals to fetch.
Go with the following against Westmeath, depending on fitness:
Quaid
King Condon Hickey
Wayne O'Mahoney S O'Brien
Ryan Fitzgibbon
Dowling Browne Hannon
Mulcahy Downes Lynch
We badly need cover in the full-back line, we used the same full-back line over and over throughout the Waterford Crystal and League, the same one which was roasted on Sunday. Try King there with Condon at full-back, was probably out of position during the league at midfield, he's never really gotten a proper chance at corner-back, see how we fare when the full-back line is the fastest line on the pitch.
Put Browne at centre-forward with the same ploy of dropping off the centre-back and it will be a lot more effective. You don't really lose his presence at midfield and you have a player who can actually attack the central channel. Dowling and Hannon as your puckout targets, Browne and either of Mulcahy and Lynch combining to latch onto breaks and hassle the defender coming out with the ball.
Downes at the edge of the square with corner-forwards moving to try and create space to play ball in to the left and right of him at full.
Westmeath game probably won't be able to tell us a whole lot, but if we're lethargically struggling to pull away and open them up as we did against teams all through the league then it actually tells us all we need to know.
There is no way Condon is a better full back than Richie and I'd also doubt he's faster over five yards. Given a choice between only being able to start one, it's Richie, and in fact Condon's place is equally if not more under threat.
Again, the major problem was not with our full back line, but with our midfield and half forward line who allowed Tipp so much time on the ball to deliver perfect passes forward. This is the first problem to address IMO.
Step one, restore Browne to midfield.
Step two, select a half forward line that can both win ball and work hard to disrupt opposition half backs. I'd give Hannon another chance with this instruction. Start Downes at 11 because he must deserve a chance and at his best could wreak havoc. And for the third,either persist with Breen who was rusty and off the pace after injury the last day, or go with Reidy if his form in training is strong enough.
If we weren't so short on half backs Gavin would be great up at half forward, will run, disrupt, work, and tackle endlessly, can win ball, and well able to score. We need him at 6 though.0 -
Effin and liberties draw according to twatter, wonder did nicky play
Club form should be having a big input into next selection
Likes of byrnes, lynch need to be looked at
Away for a week so wont see any games the weekend, wouldnt mnd seeing some reports when i get back0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »Effin and liberties draw according to twatter, wonder did nicky play
Club form should be having a big input into next selection
Likes of byrnes, lynch need to be looked at
Away for a week so wont see any games the weekend, wouldnt mnd seeing some reports when i get back
A friend of mine was at the game, said Nickie lined out at midfield. Encouraging to hear that.
Byrnesy is definitely good enough to make the step up to senior. He's a natural centre back, and a very reliable long range free taker. I'd at least have him on the panel. Ronan Lynch would likewise be able to provide the same value. We must not be afraid to make these additions if necessary, which they clearly are at the moment.0 -
Got to the libs v effin match enjoyable enough quaid togs out a big man but is needed for goals.T ryan was noticeable but nothing spectacular.My team for the next big game would be
Quaid
P Browne
R mac[if fully fit]
Hickey[if fully fit]
w mac
Gom
Sob/Condon
R Lynch
Jim bob
C Lynch
Hannon
Dowling
J fitz
Downes
T Morrissey0 -
Cheese Wagstaff wrote: »A friend of mine was at the game, said Nickie lined out at midfield. Encouraging to hear that.
Byrnesy is definitely good enough to make the step up to senior. He's a natural centre back, and a very reliable long range free taker. I'd at least have him on the panel. Ronan Lynch would likewise be able to provide the same value. We must not be afraid to make these additions if necessary, which they clearly are at the moment.
It seems crazy that Nicky was fit enough to start midfield for his club and not fit enough to play in goals 4 days earlier. I know it's intercounty and there is a step up in fitness etc. but surely he could have lined out in goals He is vital for Limerick and believe he was greatly missed in last two games.0 -
Gavin looked good in poor games like waterford crystal cup and few league games at half forward and for kilmsllock but the ist real test in all Ireland club final fennelly didn't give him a ball and he was held scorelessglasagusban wrote: »There is no way Condon is a better full back than Richie and I'd also doubt he's faster over five yards. Given a choice between only being able to start one, it's Richie, and in fact Condon's place is equally if not more under threat.
Again, the major problem was not with our full back line, but with our midfield and half forward line who allowed Tipp so much time on the ball to deliver perfect passes forward. This is the first problem to address IMO.
Step one, restore Browne to midfield.
Step two, select a half forward line that can both win ball and work hard to disrupt opposition half backs. I'd give Hannon another chance with this instruction. Start Downes at 11 because he must deserve a chance and at his best could wreak havoc. And for the third,either persist with Breen who was rusty and off the pace after injury the last day, or go with Reidy if his form in training is strong enough.
If we weren't so short on half backs Gavin would be great up at half forward, will run, disrupt, work, and tackle endlessly, can win ball, and well able to score. We need him at 6 though.
Half back he's fine yes but not inter county half forward0 -
glasagusban wrote: »There is no way Condon is a better full back than Richie and I'd also doubt he's faster over five yards. Given a choice between only being able to start one, it's Richie, and in fact Condon's place is equally if not more under threat.
Again, the major problem was not with our full back line, but with our midfield and half forward line who allowed Tipp so much time on the ball to deliver perfect passes forward. This is the first problem to address IMO.
Step one, restore Browne to midfield.
Step two, select a half forward line that can both win ball and work hard to disrupt opposition half backs. I'd give Hannon another chance with this instruction. Start Downes at 11 because he must deserve a chance and at his best could wreak havoc. And for the third,either persist with Breen who was rusty and off the pace after injury the last day, or go with Reidy if his form in training is strong enough.
If we weren't so short on half backs Gavin would be great up at half forward, will run, disrupt, work, and tackle endlessly, can win ball, and well able to score. We need him at 6 though.
I couldn't comment on the first five yards part, but in the yards after that Condon would roast Richie, no question. Look Richie is a fantastic hurler, almost always makes the right decision and shows great bravery to get the hooks and blocks in, but over the last few months as the ground has hardened and teams are playing ball into space Richie is yards off his man, far more than in similar situations in previous years. The warning signs have been there since as far back as the Wexford match in the league, when they should have been out of sight at half time. They changed to a more Route 1 approach in the second half and Richie thundered into the game. Dublin, Clare and Tipperary have all gotten change out of the ball into space approach with varying degrees of success. Now there is certainly an element of allowing that space develop in the first place, and forwards/midfield allowing the opposing defence to place their clearances, but I think at this level allowing yourself have that weakness at full-back is criminal.
I agree with you on Hannon. I have no idea what management are instructing him to do, but I get the strange sense that he doesn't either. Move him back to the wing, simple instructions - win/break puckouts, hassle defenders, look for space when we are emerging with the ball - he'd be transfomed. Leave centre-forward to someone with pace and a naturally high workrate.0 -
When I judge any manager i judge all he's term and one thing that stands out clearly is when Ryan was under twenty one manager in he's only game he's team conceded two goals to tippeary so you look at the seven championship games in both grades at championship level he's teams in seven games conceded fifteen goals
That shows imo he's teams have always been poor defence wise and I mentioned while like defence in forwards limerick have good players as a unit they don't gel as a unit and v clare and tippeary and kk at senior and that under twenty one game they were outscored from play and that under twenty one game just got two seven from play but Kenny goal was when the game was over and they were down by ten points
Looking at the senior game to that under twenty one game there's huge similarity in both were at home and more was expected of limerick
That under twenty one game was like the senior in tippeary were well ahead with fifteen minutes to go
Championship record is at senior played six games beating Wexford tipp and clare and loosing to cork Kilkenny and tippeary
Fifty per cent win ratio
Add in the under twenty one game and it's another loss
Tippeary last year was a good win
Wexford yes there's the chance limerick would won anyway but no way would they hammered Wexford and got as many goals as since that game and again Sunday they struggle get goals from play
Kk were a tired team two years ago and couldn't cope with so many games like tipp Waterford and Cork and were beaten
No way could Wexford then cope with four games in a month
Limerick in truth should be beating clare by at least five points with so many lads out for clare and down a man at a key point in the game
They struggled to win
The signs are there that there is a lot wrong with limerick and to put it down to a bad day at the office and just a drop in work rate imo would be not good going forward
Last year Ryan had huge energy of focus and willing of players wanting prove point v o grady affairs
It got them good games but kk beat them still
A year on that same energy and passion is clearly missing from limerick and that under standsble as you can only do that if you keep evolving and limerick haven't tactically evolved so as maher said once tipp matched limerick with fire for fire tipp were always going to win
If limerick get to a semi final v kk kk will match them with intensity toe to toe
Kk will have a plan a b and most likely v
It's not the defeat that's the problem only in the worst defeat in forty years at home to tippeary is a huge blow to limerick and Cork showed they still have the hang over of their defeat to tippeary last year so I don't think limerick team that now four years on the go can brush this defeat off easily and westmeath won't help in nothing will be learned in a huge win
Tippeary recovered last year as they had coach and players proven most big games outside of kk and limerick imo don't have that and this is not good for confidence if they go to croke park where it's not good place for past limerick teams
Limerick wins in history as always been based on having a cause a backs to the wall focus
The year has passed since the original grady affairs and that cause is negated
Munster rugby played great as they always need a cause like loose week before a European game or not loose same time twice
Time has moved on even for this great team in now they have huge questions over tactics of great great player Anthony foley and teams match munster intensity now beat them
Limerick is similar now Ryan like foley was end always will be a great player but aside from passion and commitment tactical evolution is now the key to success in modern elite sport
It's quite reasonable to question is Ryan the man to lead limerick forward
I'd debate limerick haven't improved since Allen term and limerick made a huge huge mistake and I said it then in let emotions get in the way and soon as kk game was over they handed limerick new three year term
What was the rush
Now based on limericks history with management even as recently as minors they have backed them selves in to a corner in if results are bad even though they show no loyalty they will find hard to end Ryan term before the three years end
If he stays limerick could actually go back in development
If he goes there's no stand out candidate
Fitzgerald a poster said had issues at under twenty one With players with respect there's been few management most limerick teams never hadn't issue with limerick teams so I wouldn't judge him on that
He never had issue any other team that is imo more important
The best scenario for Limerick is Ryan stays and he brings in mcdonagh and moran and Fitzgerald next year but I don't think he's ruthless enough to do it
I genuinely hope for Limerick hurling I'm wrong0 -
Can we just set up a seperate ''thinstoomuch TJ rant'' thread becasue its getting a bit tired at this stage and ruining more than one thread, we get it lad you don't rate him, Im sure he is gutted :rolleyes:0
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Will you stop it's not a rantCan we just set up a seperate ''thinstoomuch TJ rant'' thread becasue its getting a bit tired at this stage and ruining more than one thread, we get it lad you don't rate him, Im sure he is gutted :rolleyes:
What tiresome is people like yourself give short views trying paint flaws perception I am when I'm sure many limerick lads know this now
Debate any of the points please if you wish regards he's management record
It's not a rant but limerick were beaten Sunday and debate here is on how do they get better
Some choose to think it's lack playing talent but I don't believe or never have that view in I believe the talent is in limerick but said this for years and not just with Ryan but limerick needs the possession game as they have the hurling to win all Ireland
Some are blaming the players like the great riche mac and I think that's wrong as he was given no protection by the half back line and he doesn't pick the team0 -
I don't understand why some players who weren't fully fit were selected and others weren't. If Quaid came through last night then he really can't have been too far off three days earlier.
Picking a guy who's not fully fit is dangerous, for starters the injury could flare up again, and the chances are that player could get an absolute roasting. (Exactly as happened arguably our most dependable player on Sunday). Players want to play and they'll never turn the call down, it's up to the selectors and physios to determine if a player is fully ready. Players by their very nature want to play, even if they're 90% they will believe they will be fine, that they can power through and deal with any consequences afterwards.
Putting in a guy who is only 90% is both unfair on that player and the guy who has been busting his ass in training in a bid to win a place on the team. Can be very disheartening on a fringe player if he feels he's competing with a guy who seems to be undroppable, but not getting on ahead of players who aren't even fully fit must be a right sickener. Management shouldn't be afraid to tell a guy "You're not starting as we don't feel you're 100% ready yet" no matter how important he is to the team. Even if the player disagrees and feel's he's ready. It doesn't matter if it upsets the player, it's only natural that it would.
Even if we had 15 flying fit players on the pitch the outcome would not have been any different, the margin would perhaps have been smaller alright, but the biggest issue last weekend goes a lot deeper than fitness. It's too late to put things right for 2015.0 -
I'd agreezombieHanalei wrote: »I don't understand why some players who weren't fully fit were selected and others weren't. If Quaid came through last night then he really can't have been too far off three days earlier.
Picking a guy who's not fully fit is dangerous, for starters the injury could flare up again, and the chances are that player could get an absolute roasting. (Exactly as happened arguably our most dependable player on Sunday). Players want to play and they'll never turn the call down, it's up to the selectors and physios to determine if a player is fully ready. Players by their very nature want to play, even if they're 90% they will believe they will be fine, that they can power through and deal with any consequences afterwards.
Putting in a guy who is only 90% is both unfair on that player and the guy who has been busting his ass in training in a bid to win a place on the team. Can be very disheartening on a fringe player if he feels he's competing with a guy who seems to be undroppable, but not getting on ahead of players who aren't even fully fit must be a right sickener. Management shouldn't be afraid to tell a guy "You're not starting as we don't feel you're 100% ready yet" no matter how important he is to the team. Even if the player disagrees and feel's he's ready. It doesn't matter if it upsets the player, it's only natural that it would.
Even if we had 15 flying fit players on the pitch the outcome would not have been any different, the margin would perhaps have been smaller alright, but the biggest issue last weekend goes a lot deeper than fitness. It's too late to put things right for 2015.
Would you change up the selectors and who would you put in if so0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I'd agree
Would you change up the selectors and who would you put in if so
You've made decent suggestions but I know McDonagh would take an awful lot of convincing. He is very committed to his farming and would not commit to senior set up unless he knew he could commit 100% to both farm and hurling, if he has to pick between the two the farm will take priority every time.
I've seen Moran at work training the ASR lads, very impressed. Whether or not that would translate to senior set up is debatable. He is the most feasible of the three you mention in my opinion.
I do feel the backroom team needs a shake up, but I just don't think TJ is likely to change anything in that regard. It saddens me to say that the only way I believe the necessary changes will be made is if a new management team is installed after this years championship. For a supposedly modern young manager TJ is old school in his approach in many respects. Good man manager, but that will only get you so far, a result like last weekend could well start planting the seeds of doubt in the players minds.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »When I judge any manager i judge all he's term and one thing that stands out clearly is when Ryan was under twenty one manager in he's only game he's team conceded two goals to tippeary so you look at the seven championship games in both grades at championship level he's teams in seven games conceded fifteen goals
That shows imo he's teams have always been poor defence wise and I mentioned while like defence in forwards limerick have good players as a unit they don't gel as a unit and v clare and tippeary and kk at senior and that under twenty one game they were outscored from play and that under twenty one game just got two seven from play but Kenny goal was when the game was over and they were down by ten points
Looking at the senior game to that under twenty one game there's huge similarity in both were at home and more was expected of limerick
Seriously if you've nothing new to say better not to say anything at all, I get a notification that the thread is updated and expect something about the club games, minor or u21 or something instead it's the same sh##te about TJ tactics and Wexford being tired etc.etc. ad nauseum!
Just to correct you that u21 was on in thurles that u21 team also got beaten at home to tipp after winning Munster in 2011, even with Downes in the team they struggled big time with largely the same team as 2011, 2013 was just as bad as 2012 but selectively getting facts and figures to support your view is not right, they struggled in the 2 years after 2011 with 2 different managers do not all at TJ door...0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Debate any of the points please if you wish regards he's management record
Its the inconsistency in your posting that I take issue with. You have most definitely a personal vendetta against TJ Ryan, that is plain for all to see, but yet you refuse to criticise you're own beloved JBM or Clare's Davy Fitz?
Take Davy for example he is manager of Clare who were beaten by, shock horror the TJ Ryan managed Limerick but I dont recall any negative comments re Davy or indeed any praise for TJ.
It seems that your analysis is when they lose its all TJ's fault but when they win they simply got lucky, you can't have it both ways.0 -
Its the inconsistency in your posting that I take issue with. You have most definitely a personal vendetta against TJ Ryan, that is plain for all to see, but yet you refuse to criticise you're own beloved JBM or Clare's Davy Fitz?
Take Davy for example he is manager of Clare who were beaten by, shock horror the TJ Ryan managed Limerick but I dont recall any negative comments re Davy or indeed any praise for TJ.
It seems that your analysis is when they lose its all TJ's fault but when they win they simply got lucky, you can't have it both ways.
Wrong wrong wrong
It's the perception you others trying make out
Your new here so let me spell it out
I RATE RYAN AS A GREAT PLAYER ALWAYS ONE MY HEROES BUT CONCERNS TACTICAL ABILITY
I CRITSED jbm tactically wise but don't make your post look illogical by comparing Ryan to JBM
I don't rate Fitzgerald as hero in I don't agree he's style but he's won lit and waterford and clare so I certainly respect he's record
It's that simple
Your problem is you judge Fitzgerald on he's more to some annoying than Ryan so davy get more critsim
What have you personal against davy
Why do you always go an about him
See your doing what you claim me do when I have no problem manager questions field play
Please show me how it's personal
Just cause the same mistake repeated by him and I say them not personal
I rate tj hugely player and many know huge fan him
Management and skill set is different
I genuinely find your posts very good but please stop this nonsense against tj
Surely you agree three losses in six games and a dismal league merits critsim
Be fair now0 -
Some valid pointsSeriously if you've nothing new to say better not to say anything at all, I get a notification that the thread is updated and expect something about the club games, minor or u21 or something instead it's the same sh##te about TJ tactics and Wexford being tired etc.etc. ad nauseum!
Just to correct you that u21 was on in thurles that u21 team also got beaten at home to tipp after winning Munster in 2011, even with Downes in the team they struggled big time with largely the same team as 2011, 2013 was just as bad as 2012 but selectively getting facts and figures to support your view is not right, they struggled in the 2 years after 2011 with 2 different managers do not all at TJ door...
But they won munster four years ago
I never said it's all Ryan fault what I'm saying is like others said is record at under age and senior is not convincing
With respect you don't have to read my posts
I'm giving an opinion on Sunday and if you want to blame players etc that's your right
I don't and I don't blame the players
I blame the system
Who develop the system
The management and not just Ryan but he's coaches but he is the one that brought them in0 -
Its the inconsistency in your posting that I take issue with. You have most definitely a personal vendetta against TJ Ryan, that is plain for all to see, but yet you refuse to criticise you're own beloved JBM or Clare's Davy Fitz?
Take Davy for example he is manager of Clare who were beaten by, shock horror the TJ Ryan managed Limerick but I dont recall any negative comments re Davy or indeed any praise for TJ.
It seems that your analysis is when they lose its all TJ's fault but when they win they simply got lucky, you can't have it both ways.
Just to clarify personal is related to slants on he's personal life etc
Never once have I done that
I am like hanlei has concerned he's tactics as manager
Are you going to accuse him of the same
I only repeat my concerns cause their evident in most games
Will you please stop this nonsense then against Ryan
Your a good poster and you don't need to go down that line imo0 -
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TJ deserves criticism for Sunday, the players deserve it too, hopefully the whole management team and panel are having a good look at themselves now but there won't be any changes to management until end of the year and If the rest of the year goes the same way I doubt the cb will stand behind him...but going over the same ground will not change anything...thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Some valid points
But they won munster four years ago
I never said it's all Ryan fault what I'm saying is like others said is record at under age and senior is not convincing
With respect you don't have to read my posts
I'm giving an opinion on Sunday and if you want to blame players etc that's your right
I don't and I don't blame the players
I blame the system
Who develop the system
The management and not just Ryan but he's coaches but he is the one that brought them in0
This discussion has been closed.
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