*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

Colemania

Byrnes is going very well this year with club and Limerick intermediates. Not up for seniors yet though. Someone who may be more in the know can correct me on this but am I right in saying Byrnes only started playing club hurling when he was 17 or 18? He's about 21 now so if that's true, that's some progression! Can't remember him on any of the Patrickswell minor teams that got to county finals a few years in a row.

One thing that most impressed me about him against Tipp was his range of passing. Fast direct passing into the forwards hands rather than into space for the forward to chase. It'd remind you of the hurling equivalent to how Xabi Alonso passes a ball, if you can imagine that :P

Cheese Wagstaff

Colemania wrote: »

Byrnes is going very well this year with club and Limerick intermediates. Not up for seniors yet though. Someone who may be more in the know can correct me on this but am I right in saying Byrnes only started playing club hurling when he was 17 or 18? He's about 21 now so if that's true, that's some progression! Can't remember him on any of the Patrickswell minor teams that got to county finals a few years in a row.

One thing that most impressed me about him against Tipp was his range of passing. Fast direct passing into the forwards hands rather than into space for the forward to chase. It'd remind you of the hurling equivalent to how Xabi Alonso passes a ball, if you can imagine that :P

Definitely not correct, he's been centre back for club underage since around U12 I'd say.

Twoman Fullbackline

glasagusban wrote: »

Hard to pick a team for the next game, I think there's only a few changes you can make and hope that players like Hannon and Hickey are going to come good. Presuming Condon's out:

Quaid
Walsh McCarthy Hickey/Seanie
Wayne Gavin Hickey/Seanie
Ryan Browne
Breen Hannon Downes/Dowling
Lynch Downling/Downes Tobin

I'd start Tobin because he's a quality player and great to work and tackle, he also must be ripping for a chance to start and the speed of a fresh Mulcahy coming in with 20 to go would be a nightmare for any corner back. Worth a try and at the least you wouldn't lose much between them in the change.

Condon out really limits what we can do in the full-back line. I'd imagine the management will play it safe and reinstate Walsh. That leaves us open pace-wise, so if they do this they absolutely have to play a dedicated sweeper. Paudie O'Brien at wing-back is going down a tried and failed route in my opinion. The only other options at this point I can see are Morrissey and Hickey. Morrissey did well enough against Westmeath while Hickey's form appears to have gone over a cliff, so the Ahane man might get the nod. Up front, shutting down Rushe at centre-back will be key. Playing Hannon in a drifting role 20 yards away won't do this. James Ryan or David Breen would be good options in this regard. Taking Ryan out of midfield not everyone's cup of tea, as I've mentioned a good few times before I'm a big fan of Fitzgibbon or a real wild-card would be to reinstate Hickey in the centre of the park.

Something like:

Quaid
Walsh, McCarthy, S O'Brien
O'Grady
Morrissey, McNamara, O'Mahoney
Fitzgibbon, Browne
Dowling Ryan Hannon
Downes Tobin

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

Any chance you might post a report on this game as I won't make it i'm hearing a lot about Byrnes I haven't seen him a lot but of what I have it surprises me to hear him being talked about so much but I love being proved wrong when its for the betterment of Limk hurling.

Normally you couldn't question the commitment or heart of any Limerick team but for me those two and lack of fitness have been sorely missed this yr or at worst haven't been there in the same amount as normal.

I fear for us on sat I truly believe we have the players to beat Dublin but if we don't a clear out is required like what Waterford did as I for one have no interest in quarter or semi's or even beaten finalist I want to try and build a team that might do so even if it takes a few yrs and I think this team has peaked already probably last August.

This talk annoys me if I'm honest clear out required players limerick loose
Again it's why I harp so much about management
Maybe people realise now why I repeat over over again about management as I strongly disagree players arent in limerick


Correctly so few weeks back you came cork thread and stood up limerick players when you thought wasn't giving them respect
But now you want clear out if loose Dublin
It's not the players
It's the system
And management not players pick the system
Committed limerick teams never been problem
You question fitness that down coaching and fitness set up limerick then

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/sport/sweeping-changes-to-hurling/
Very related limerick hurling in concept is the same imo
A good read

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

Any chance you might post a report on this game as I won't make it i'm hearing a lot about Byrnes I haven't seen him a lot but of what I have it surprises me to hear him being talked about so much but I love being proved wrong when its for the betterment of Limk hurling.

Normally you couldn't question the commitment or heart of any Limerick team but for me those two and lack of fitness have been sorely missed this yr or at worst haven't been there in the same amount as normal.

I fear for us on sat I truly believe we have the players to beat Dublin but if we don't a clear out is required like what Waterford did as I for one have no interest in quarter or semi's or even beaten finalist I want to try and build a team that might do so even if it takes a few yrs and I think this team has peaked already probably last August.

I'll try make it and if I do I'll try give ye report purely on performance on field nothing more nothing less that will be honest fair bold open assessment of players and management performance and possibly lads senior potential
I'll judge that by comparing cork opponents in lad plays well against cork lad that just this level I keep it in perspective
The bench is unreal with young players like lynch English and lads like McNamama and mulchay as sub so limerick have strong panel

Copper_pipe

Rumoured Limerick team v Dublin Quaid S.O'Brien McCarthy Morrissey P.O'Brien O'Mahony McNamara Ryan Browne Breen Hannon Dowling Mulcahy Downes Lync

Colemania

Cheese Wagstaff wrote: »

Definitely not correct, he's been centre back for club underage since around U12 I'd say.

My bad! Never noticed him at underage level. It was always the same names cropping up underage. Kelliher, carrig, carmody, the o'briens. Delighted how well he's progressing anyway

Fireball07

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Rumoured Limerick team v Dublin Quaid S.O'Brien McCarthy Morrissey P.O'Brien O'Mahony McNamara Ryan Browne Breen Hannon Dowling Mulcahy Downes Lync

A good source?

Putting Dan Morrissey at corner-back would be a bit odd, never really played there. What is the story with Hickey at all? Really strange.

That half-forward line would be up against it against Dublin, is Hannon the man to take on Rushe?


At this stage it's hard to know what to do, but the overall intensity levels have to rise if we are to have any chance. For about 10 minutes against Tipp, we used the ball smartly and looked to be at Championship pace. We need that for 70 minutes.

glasagusban

Isn't Byrnes still u21 as well? Not unrealistic for him to be in contention for a place on the Limerick team next year. Still think Quaid is worth a look at 6, you couldn't find a better olayer for catching and distributing for a start.

Fireball07

glasagusban wrote: »

Isn't Byrnes still u21 as well? Not unrealistic for him to be in contention for a place on the Limerick team next year. Still think Quaid is worth a look at 6, you couldn't find a better olayer for catching and distributing for a start.

Yeah, he is still U-21; it wouldn't be a surprise to have him involved. Big, strong, good in the air- but again, not sure about his pace... it's not a very quick line as of now. Same problem with Quaid though and I think we saw how much we missed him against Tipp.

Cheese Wagstaff

Fireball07 wrote: »

Yeah, he is still U-21; it wouldn't be a surprise to have him involved. Big, strong, good in the air- but again, not sure about his pace... it's not a very quick line as of now. Same problem with Quaid though and I think we saw how much we missed him against Tipp.

He's captain for the 21s! Oddly enough, he's wing back for them as opposed to being centre back for the intermediates. He'd be pacier than anybody else we've tried so far, I'd have no doubt about that.

Fireball07

Cheese Wagstaff wrote: »

He's captain for the 21s! Oddly enough, he's wing back for them as opposed to being centre back for the intermediates. He'd be pacier than anybody else we've tried so far, I'd have no doubt about that.

Barry O'Connell at centre-back for the 21s, I think, Byrnes is possibly more suited to the centre with Barry on the wing.


Seanie O'Brien is definitely the quickest player we've had in the half-back line but Byrnes might be the quicker than the other centre-backs, although Wayne is not slow. I think people assume Wayne is slow because he's so physical but he's quicker than the others.


We have some serious hurlers in Limerick but not enough half-backs, I think.

savannahkat

Fireball07 wrote: »

Barry O'Connell at centre-back for the 21s, I think, Byrnes is possibly more suited to the centre with Barry on the wing.


Seanie O'Brien is definitely the quickest player we've had in the half-back line but Byrnes might be the quicker than the other centre-backs, although Wayne is not slow. I think people assume Wayne is slow because he's so physical but he's quicker than the others.


We have some serious hurlers in Limerick but not enough half-backs, I think.

Of course Limerick have very skillful hurlers but serious hurlers I doubt it. If Limerick were serious about their hurling they would not be languishing in Division 1B for so long especially with the players they have. Half training and half trying for half the year is no preparation for the real stuff. Skilful hurlers yes, serious hurlers no , not even close.

thinkstoomuch1

savannahkat wrote: »

Of course Limerick have very skillful hurlers but serious hurlers I doubt it. If Limerick were serious about their hurling they would not be languishing in Division 1B for so long especially with the players they have. Half training and half trying for half the year is no preparation for the real stuff. Skilful hurlers yes, serious hurlers no , not even close.

An imo appalling disrespect to wonderful talent limerick has
You said half training and half preparing is bad
Tell me who trains the team
It's not the players now is it


Limerick commitment and passion can't be faulted
System is limerick only problem

shockframe

savannahkat wrote: »

Of course Limerick have very skillful hurlers but serious hurlers I doubt it. If Limerick were serious about their hurling they would not be languishing in Division 1B for so long especially with the players they have. Half training and half trying for half the year is no preparation for the real stuff. Skilful hurlers yes, serious hurlers no , not even close.

We were a victim of circumstances in 2010 and 2011 and would have been in the top grade in 2011 and 2012 only for it.

FWIW we were always in the top grade and it didnt do much for us in the 35+ years as regards All Irelands.

As for your last point. I can't argue with that.This season has been a disaster.

Colemania

Lads don't feed into savannahkats posts. Only looking for a rise from someone and then will just argue back at how good their beloved cats are. Probably turns up on all Ireland final day like most cats

shockframe

Be that as it may we have done nothing all year.

All this talk about our skillful hurlers is just that - talk. Limerick isn't the only county with good players.Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, Tipp and Dublin ain't too shabby right now.

And so what if we're reminded of how good Kilkenny are. They are the gold standard whether you like it or not and there's really no comparison between us and them so far this season.

Mehapoy

shockframe wrote: »

Be that as it may we have done nothing all year.

All this talk about our skillful hurlers is just that - talk. Limerick isn't the only county with good players.Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, Tipp and Dublin ain't too shabby right now.

And so what if we're reminded of how good Kilkenny are. They are the gold standard whether you like it or not and there's really no comparison between us and them so far this season.

It's not a good sign for Limerick that we can't get out of 1b, look at Waterford, concentrated on getting straight out of 1b achieved that and went on a run after that..don't know how far more they'll get but they're in a much better position than Limerick at this stage.
Also given limericks underage record before 2013 the present team is not far away from where they should be, the team is based on the 2005 minors, who were hockied by cork in the Munster final, did well to get back into the all Ireland final before being fairly well beaten by Galway, in the years after that we did nothing in minor or u21 and got a few beatings along the way...the 2011 u21s won Munster and provided Dowling, downes, Hannon, basically the team is picking off a base of two moderately successful underage teams...compare that to Clare, Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny even Waterford and we are not at that level yet, given the minors of the last 3 years and hopefully some good showings at u21 we can get there.
The concern is also can TJ hack it(ttm knows the answer to that!) the answer seems to be no given this year, his lack of success in other roles means he has nothing to fall back on if things aren't going his way, contrast to McGrath with Waterford when things weren't happening he had least had a system he believes in.

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

It's not a good sign for Limerick that we can't get out of 1b, look at Waterford, concentrated on getting straight out of 1b achieved that and went on a run after that..don't know how far more they'll get but they're in a much better position than Limerick at this stage.
Also given limericks underage record before 2013 the present team is not far away from where they should be, the team is based on the 2005 minors, who were hockied by cork in the Munster final, did well to get back into the all Ireland final before being fairly well beaten by Galway, in the years after that we did nothing in minor or u21 and got a few beatings along the way...the 2011 u21s won Munster and provided Dowling, downes, Hannon, basically the team is picking off a base of two moderately successful underage teams...compare that to Clare, Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny even Waterford and we are not at that level yet, given the minors of the last 3 years and hopefully some good showings at u21 we can get there.
The concern is also can TJ hack it(ttm knows the answer to that!) the answer seems to be no given this year, his lack of success in other roles means he has nothing to fall back on if things aren't going his way, contrast to McGrath with Waterford when things weren't happening he had least had a system he believes in.

Great post

lim4ev

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

This talk annoys me if I'm honest clear out required players limerick loose
Again it's why I harp so much about management
Maybe people realise now why I repeat over over again about management as I strongly disagree players arent in limerick


Correctly so few weeks back you came cork thread and stood up limerick players when you thought wasn't giving them respect
But now you want clear out if loose Dublin
It's not the players
It's the system
And management not players pick the system
Committed limerick teams never been problem
You question fitness that down coaching and fitness set up limerick then

TTM

Though sometimes i haven't a clue what you are writing or trying to say one thing strikes me is your utter distain for Limerick hurling not even a mention of limerick in your talk of u21 hurling.Remember waterford u21s are a fine side but remember limerick played them at minor 3 times in 2013 and 14 and weren't beaten by them, in your view it'll be a yr too soon for waterford to beat tipp but not even a mention that it may be remotely possible that limerick might do so, its as if its a taken they'll beat limerick.
In another post you hope to get limerick in the second round of the snr qualifiers because you think tipps full forward line will go to town on corks full back line as limerick don't go for goals!!!!!!!!!Are you being serious?what do you think will be tipperary's full forward line next sunday? Would you not be just as afraid of Limericks?

As you can see above in bold this is what I took you up on

I took you up mainly on your total dismissal of the limerick u 21s a few weeks ago.And I stand by my comments that a clean out of the seniors is needed if and when we are beaten this yr I do agree with the point that maybe somebody else might get more out of them but if you think we can win an all irl with 4-5 of that team as it stands well sorry I don't agree.

lim4ev

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'll try make it and if I do I'll try give ye report purely on performance on field nothing more nothing less that will be honest fair bold open assessment of players and management performance and possibly lads senior potential
I'll judge that by comparing cork opponents in lad plays well against cork lad that just this level I keep it in perspective
The bench is unreal with young players like lynch English and lads like McNamama and mulchay as sub so limerick have strong panel

I'd appreciate that and i'd respect your opinion on him too as you'd be neutral for the want of a better word

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

TTM

Though sometimes i haven't a clue what you are writing or trying to say one thing strikes me is your utter distain for Limerick hurling not even a mention of limerick in your talk of u21 hurling.Remember waterford u21s are a fine side but remember limerick played them at minor 3 times in 2013 and 14 and weren't beaten by them, in your view it'll be a yr too soon for waterford to beat tipp but not even a mention that it may be remotely possible that limerick might do so, its as if its a taken they'll beat limerick.
In another post you hope to get limerick in the second round of the snr qualifiers because you think tipps full forward line will go to town on corks full back line as limerick don't go for goals!!!!!!!!!Are you being serious?what do you think will be tipperary's full forward line next sunday? Would you not be just as afraid of Limericks?

As you can see above in bold this is what I took you up on

I took you up mainly on your total dismissal of the limerick u 21s a few weeks ago.And I stand by my comments that a clean out of the seniors is needed if and when we are beaten this yr I do agree with the point that maybe somebody else might get more out of them but if you think we can win an all irl with 4-5 of that team as it stands well sorry I don't agree.

Fair point and I agree some need go but often system get best out players
Donegal changed system went one year hammered armagh to winning ulster title

lim4ev

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Rumoured Limerick team v Dublin Quaid S.O'Brien McCarthy Morrissey P.O'Brien O'Mahony McNamara Ryan Browne Breen Hannon Dowling Mulcahy Downes Lync

I suppose out side of Morrissey its prob as good as we have for me I'd play hickey 100 out of 100 ahead of Morrissey.There's no doubt in my mind some of these players are playing for their inter county career this sat night

lim4ev

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair point and I agree some need go but often system get best out players
Donegal changed system went one year hammered armagh to winning ulster title

I'm so disappointed with some of these players I really thought we could push on and challenge for honours this yr I think its too easy to blame the management i'm not absolving them either but I feel with the good minors that are there now I think a clear out is required and remember nothing is final if the axed players perform well for the clubs they can always be asked back

glasagusban

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair point and I agree some need go but often system get best out players
Donegal changed system went one year hammered armagh to winning ulster title

I'm often very frustrated with TTM and disagree with a lot of his repetitions, but I'm siding with him here.

A "clear out" of players for the sake of it is just a bad idea. It's also very disrespectful.

If you have better players coming through and the older ones aren't making an impact, then by all means. But always the best players in the county should be picked. Most of our players have a good few years left in them yet.

Waterford crucially kept their older players that were playing well. After that where the choice was between an older player not making a big impact or youth they went with youth. It's a sensible enough policy but people are getting carried away about their clear out, there is a good sprinkling of experience in that team, and they are lucky after that to have some exceptional young players.

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

I'm so disappointed with some of these players I really thought we could push on and challenge for honours this yr I think its too easy to blame the management i'm not absolving them either but I feel with the good minors that are there now I think a clear out is required and remember nothing is final if the axed players perform well for the clubs they can always be asked back

There's no point bring in host new players with potential though if management clearly can't devise and implement a effective game plan and coach players to the next level


Before I'd make wholesale changes I'd get a proven coach in work them

Some have to go but I'd keep the core
I think yell beat Dublin sunday also

Fireball07

Mehapoy wrote: »

It's not a good sign for Limerick that we can't get out of 1b, look at Waterford, concentrated on getting straight out of 1b achieved that and went on a run after that..don't know how far more they'll get but they're in a much better position than Limerick at this stage.
Also given limericks underage record before 2013 the present team is not far away from where they should be, the team is based on the 2005 minors, who were hockied by cork in the Munster final, did well to get back into the all Ireland final before being fairly well beaten by Galway, in the years after that we did nothing in minor or u21 and got a few beatings along the way...the 2011 u21s won Munster and provided Dowling, downes, Hannon, basically the team is picking off a base of two moderately successful underage teams...compare that to Clare, Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny even Waterford and we are not at that level yet, given the minors of the last 3 years and hopefully some good showings at u21 we can get there.
The concern is also can TJ hack it(ttm knows the answer to that!) the answer seems to be no given this year, his lack of success in other roles means he has nothing to fall back on if things aren't going his way, contrast to McGrath with Waterford when things weren't happening he had least had a system he believes in.

There are some good points there alright.


The league thing is very frustrating, we have showed it disdain in recent seasons and that's been okay because we have been transformed come Championship. I still think it's very annoying, but at least I could understand the view that if you are at a high intensity too early in the season, you may struggle to last the pace. Does that excuse losing to Offaly and drawing with them last year? I'm not sure tbh... but it is true that we don't have the depth of Kilkenny and Tipperary yet and can't go flat out for a whole year.


But now we're not even near where we need to be and we're within a week of potentially crashing out, which would be an utter disaster. You'd think after the Clare win that we could kick on, there was enough to build on there but Tipp utterly dismantled us. Now Tipp do look very good, very slick and would probably beat any of the 4 teams in this round fairly handily. But it was still embarrassing enough, the fact we didn't score for something like 20 minutes.


TJ does have a bit of leeway from last year still though, we were quite good and he did get us playing some good hurling and ironed out flaws as we went along. Our half-backs who were our weakest line had their best game against Kilkenny, Hannon also stepped up on that stage but the goals just let us down. This year, we added Lynch & Seanie O'Brien who were 2 of our best players against Clare... technically we should be stronger. There does have to be some criticism of the players too- some key players have had a huge drop off in form and I'm not sure the players are there to replace them. I have no idea what the story is with Hickey, Richie Mc does need a bit more protection, even Jim-Bob & Browne have to up their game, Hannon needs to get involved more (again possibly a tactic thing). This game could definitely be seen as make or break, at the start of the year, I would have expected us to beat Dublin.



As for the thing about young players... we had a great U-21 team in 2011- Mulcahy, Dowling, Hannon, Downes, Allis, SOB, Murphy, Begley, Hayes, O'Brien, Dempsey, Carmody... some really talented players who looked superb together, Tobin only a few months overage too. But most of that team were underage for the next two seasons and we did nothing, got hammered by Tipp twice which was very very disappointing, including once under TJ himself. Dempsey was probably expected to step up and was quality for the 21 teams after and is good for Na Piarsaigh- looking at it now, you'd think he'd be perfect to slot in at corner-back or maybe even wing-back with our current problems. Hannon & Dowling were both superstars at underage level but both had trouble with too many games and have had injuries, after 2011, Hannon hasn't been consistent at senior like the likes of Colm Galvin. He's still so young and last year did show what he can do but needs to be on the ball more. In fairness to Dowling, All-Star last year and by far our best player against Tipp, he's a super hurler. But I just hope the minor stars we'll surely be bringing through soon won't have the same problems and will adapt more like the Clare, Tipp and Waterford variants. Our minors beat the Waterford team in 2013 that had the likes of the Bennetts, Gleeson, Curran, Kearney and Devine who are all quite important now- we just have Lynch. Now plenty of our ones were still minor again, and were doing the Leaving Cert this year, they haven't gone away... hopefully they will make the same impact.


The 2005 minor team won't be around forever, they're all pushing into their late 20s now so this is the time really- they are the backbone of this team and hugely important players. I think we can win this weekend but we need a huge performance... the players must realise that we're in a spot of bother but there's no use being downbeat about it; it's still within their power.

lim4ev

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

An imo appalling disrespect to wonderful talent limerick has
You said half training and half preparing is bad
Tell me who trains the team
It's not the players now is it


Limerick commitment and passion can't be faulted
System is limerick only problem

I don't think he's being disrespectful he's just looking at the talent at our disposal and at worst is thinking with that talent how can they not get out of 1b at least let alone not do anything in championship.

You may be correct re the system but for me some of our players have gone stale or tired or whatever they don't in kk why is that?management have to take some responsibility but most goes to the players imo kk have bags of all Irelands what do we have?f##k all

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

I don't think he's being disrespectful he's just looking at the talent at our disposal and at worst is thinking with that talent how can they not get out of 1b at least let alone not do anything in championship.

You may be correct re the system but for me some of our players have gone stale or tired or whatever they don't in kk why is that?management have to take some responsibility but most goes to the players imo kk have bags of all Irelands what do we have?f##k all

That's imo coaching has take responsibility if wrong team panel picked
Nearly everyone here agreed panel with no corner backs had no balance in cover


Defence was poor all year and concession goals was never fixed
System was orthodox laboured and predicable with no variations of sweeper in the league
I think lethargic going though motion set in and that happens when set up isn't ruthless enough