*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

zombieHanalei

There you go, that's your "championship team", we were poor all year long. I don't know how so many people thought we had All-Ireland aspirations for so long this year, it was obvious since mid-March that we had serious issues and that last years weakness had not been addressed. Nothing really changed as the year went on.

Management shake up required, if TJ stays a new back room team needed, team not adequately coached. Tactics too straight forward, we've become too easy to play against.

Culture change required. Mediocrity should not be accepted at all. People didn't care when we had a poor league campaign, some players included. Where was the anger? Too many buying into this misguided notion that we're a championship team. Once again, we've fallen at the first hurdle when faced with 1A opposition in knockout championship hurling once the backdoor safety net no longer exists.

thinkstoomuch1

Greensoup wrote: »

There is no 3 year deal for Tj....this isn't the premier league.....there are no contracts.......when 3 years was said last August it also said a review after each year......our snakes in the county board always have a get outta jail card. Tj will either be removed or be made change his backroom team and/or a coach.....depends how many of his friends on the board stick with him or dump him overboard. But talk of 3 year deals is hilarious in the gas.

He has huge support in board let me tell you


And probably few run limerick leader back him


You can predict what happens next

Cheese Wagstaff

Just back...

A completely abject and rudderless performance for most of the game. There were small spells where we were on top, but these did not last sadly. David Breen's goal appeared to be the undoing of us, as we proceeded to concede 0-9 on the trot after that, a root cause of our collapse. Completely unacceptable.

Once again, our possession winning was non-existent. Bar one or two balls won by Lynchy and another by Downes I cannot remember a forward winning the ball clean in the air. We are selecting players based on their ability to win ball in the air, and they are simply not doing it. This is not an isolated occurrence, this is something that has not been happening for the last few years. Still however, we are not doing anything to counteract it. The definition of madness was said to be trying the same thing, but expecting different results. I don't think anything more needs to be said about that.

As the game went on, we made changes. Not sure if Dowling should have been taken off, but Seanie Tobin is not the player we should be looking to in order to dig us out of a hole. He did as well as he possibly could, but we needed more leadership to come from our mainstays. I have posted here about the enigma that has been Declan Hannon, and I am still as perplexed as ever after today. After the Clare game, people said to look at "his hidden workrate". After the Tipp game, people said to look at "the 3 points that he scored from play". There was nothing today, no excuses that could be given. Jimbob was poor also, to top off what has been a very bad year for his typically lofty standards. It was debatable if Wayne Mc should have started. He looked way off the pace today.

When we made the changes, we ended up having a very small forward line bar Downes. Our distribution however still remained focused on driving high and hopeful ball into the sky. Naturally, we failed to get any scores from these. This however wasn't picked up, and we maintained this futile method of attack. Looking at Clare today, their delivery to Honan and SO'D in the first half was frighteningly good. Diagonal, flat, low, fast ball. It was galling how much better they were able to maximise their possession than us and it only really served to show how naive we really are.

Dublin's goal was easily preventable. At this level, the fact that two players are not able to understand the basic principle of one man jumping up for the ball while the other waits for the break, is stunning. Similarly, players wanting to solo the length of the field rather than working the ball for an equalising score, and inevitably coughing up possession, is unforgivable.

To make a long and sad story short, we got so many things wrong today. Players on that panel have been raising concerns that selections are not being made on form, and it is evident how true this is after today. We need to cultivate a culture of playing our best players or failing that, a system/tactical plan that maximises the potential of the 15 players we wish to start on the field. I would be in favour of a combination of the two, as we will struggle to beat anybody if we refuse to accept the advances being made in hurling. We were not able to defeat a hopeless Dublin team, who will be ripped apart by Tipperary or Waterford.

A very disappointing day.

Fireball07

I'm so so disappointed. I don't even know if I can be bothered trying to analyse that, it hurts a lot.


Dublin are not a good team really, we should have put them away. Tbh I thought we were much better than we were against Tipp, our work rate and everything was improved, our defence looked stronger. Admittedly against weaker opposition. But the wides, oh my God the wides killed us. And once our work rate faded, Dublin came right back into it... they had more pace and more strength everywhere really.

Hickey & Richie Mc were both much much better and I would say there were excellent if not for one crucial mistake which cost us a goal. Jim-Bob was superb imo, his work rate is unbelievable. Seanie O'Brien had a nightmare, don't know what was wrong with him, 5 yards off his man every time. Breen's goal was excellent and he worked really hard. Not sure why Dowling was taken off, not at his best, but not bad either. Downes did okay but missed a few chances but then so did everyone... our shooting was atrocious and it cost us.


We played clever enough ball in the first half but in the 2nd half we were hitting it blindly and Liam Rushe won everything. Paudie O'Brien got on a huge amount of ball but wasted it... I'm not sure why Lynch & Mul were our wing-forwards but they struggled a lot. Even when we did win clean possession, our movement wasn't good enough. A lot of the performances were improved but the shooting did kill us and we needed to play smarter. Much like Clare in the 2nd game, we should have put the game to bed, but didn't. I thought Dan Morrissey was the best of our subs but not sure why Stevie Walsh didn't replace O'Brien.



It's probably the end of TJ... it was a big regression this year and he's got to take the blame for that. Some of it is the players fault and maybe our panel still needs more depth but there are a few players in reserve who are better than some of those on the panel- Alan Dempsey as a prime example. I don't know who should be the replacement but it would seem like Anthony Daly is being lined up. Although I don't think they expected that so soon. If they got someone like Kinnerk in too, that would be amazing.



But just really really really disappointed atm. How did we lose it?

thinkstoomuch1

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'm so so disappointed. I don't even know if I can be bothered trying to analyse that, it hurts a lot.


Dublin are not a good team really, we should have put them away. Tbh I thought we were much better than we were against Tipp, our work rate and everything was improved, our defence looked stronger. Admittedly against weaker opposition. But the wides, oh my God the wides killed us. And once our work rate faded, Dublin came right back into it... they had more pace and more strength everywhere really.

Hickey & Richie Mc were both much much better and I would say there were excellent if not for one crucial mistake which cost us a goal. Jim-Bob was superb imo, his work rate is unbelievable. Seanie O'Brien had a nightmare, don't know what was wrong with him, 5 yards off his man every time. Breen's goal was excellent and he worked really hard. Not sure why Dowling was taken off, not at his best, but not bad either. Downes did okay but missed a few chances but then so did everyone... our shooting was atrocious and it cost us.


We played clever enough ball in the first half but in the 2nd half we were hitting it blindly and Liam Rushe won everything. Paudie O'Brien got on a huge amount of ball but wasted it... I'm not sure why Lynch & Mul were our wing-forwards but they struggled a lot. Even when we did win clean possession, our movement wasn't good enough. A lot of the performances were improved but the shooting did kill us and we needed to play smarter. Much like Clare in the 2nd game, we should have put the game to bed, but didn't. I thought Dan Morrissey was the best of our subs but not sure why Stevie Walsh didn't replace O'Brien.



It's probably the end of TJ... it was a big regression this year and he's got to take the blame for that. Some of it is the players fault and maybe our panel still needs more depth but there are a few players in reserve who are better than some of those on the panel- Alan Dempsey as a prime example. I don't know who should be the replacement but it would seem like Anthony Daly is being lined up. Although I don't think they expected that so soon. If they got someone like Kinnerk in too, that would be amazing.



But just really really really disappointed atm. How did we lose it?

I have huge respect you and got huge respect over time for zombieHanalei so genuinely I feel for you tonight


All I say don't give up limerick limerick needs gaa fans like you
As for Kinnerk said it before won't join limerick with Ryan their as won't be allowed play possession game and with respect Ryan make him look bad

Kinnerk going to clare

Twoman Fullbackline

Up until Breen's goal, the tactics were working a treat.

Dublin had dropped a player back and Paudie was in the free man role, which was perfect. Lynch had dropped a bit out the field and was getting on plenty of ball. We also withdrew Mulcahy, which I did find strange, but he was getting onto puck-outs delivered into space from Quaid. Breen had pushed further up the pitch and was getting onto low-ball, which is actually the ball that suits him, rather than the high-ball his physique suggests, and he was causing problems. We had been on top for the first 20 minutes, hadn't really put it on the board, but after the goal, being 8 points up, I felt we would push on.

Dublin reacted by going man-for-man up front, got a few scores - we panicked and reverted to a more standard formation, Dowling at full, Downes into one corner, Lynch pushed back into the other, and from there on things went south. It was a hugely disappointing loss as the full-back line had improved massively, Richie was very good today and Hickey improved also, although he will be remembered yet again for slipping up (literally this time) at the end. Overall I thought the workrate had improved big-time from the previous matches, but once Dublin got the goal (the one error the full-back line made all day) we didn't have the cuteness to get back level - we made a hero out of Rushe in the last few minutes by hitting hopeful balls on top of a half-forward line that just isn't doing it winning possession instead of engineering a score.

I stayed for the first half of the second match, which was a lovely fluid open game of hurling that I knew wouldn't matter in the general scheme of things as Kilkenny would have blown either team off the field physically.

thinkstoomuch1

Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »

Up until Breen's goal, the tactics were working a treat.

Dublin had dropped a player back and Paudie was in the free man role, which was perfect. Lynch had dropped a bit out the field and was getting on plenty of ball. We also withdrew Mulcahy, which I did find strange, but he was getting onto puck-outs delivered into space from Quaid. Breen had pushed further up the pitch and was getting onto low-ball, which is actually the ball that suits him, rather than the high-ball his physique suggests, and he was causing problems. We had been on top for the first 20 minutes, hadn't really put it on the board, but after the goal, being 8 points up, I felt we would push on.

Dublin reacted by going man-for-man up front, got a few scores - we panicked and reverted to a more standard formation, Dowling at full, Downes into one corner, Lynch pushed back into the other, and from there on things went south. It was a hugely disappointing loss as the full-back line had improved massively, Richie was very good today and Hickey improved also, although he will be remembered yet again for slipping up (literally this time) at the end. Overall I thought the workrate had improved big-time from the previous matches, but once Dublin got the goal (the one error the full-back line made all day) we didn't have the cuteness to get back level - we made a hero out of Rushe in the last few minutes by hitting hopeful balls on top of a half-forward line that just isn't doing it winning possession instead of engineering a score.

I stayed for the first half of the second match, which was a lovely fluid open game of hurling that I knew wouldn't matter in the general scheme of things as Kilkenny would have blown either team off the field physically.

Totally disagree and normally your spot on
Limericks through fine goal breen only thing done game were awful poor wides as clear any team loose faith system and manager they do basics awfully


Take off dowling for Hannon who no work ethic was appalling and said it before tobin not good enough yet he started sub
Wayne mac should not started yet subbed as was poor


Course best man ptich warmed he's arse on the bench when this game was made for him as a sweeper


Management have drained energy out team with poor tactics and predicable game plan in too orthodox
This day in truth was always coming just a case of when not if imo

Fireball07

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I have huge respect you and got huge respect over time for zombieHanalei so genuinely I feel for you tonight


All I say don't give up limerick limerick needs gaa fans like you
As for Kinnerk said it before won't join limerick with Ryan their as won't be allowed play possession game and with respect Ryan make him look bad

Kinnerk going to clare

I'd now be surprised if Ryan was there next season. Definite failure this year. As for Kinnerk going back to Clare, maybe, I don't know him personally. But he didn't seem to be a happy camper at the end of last year.

And of course we won't give up, we know we have talent there but that's what makes it so disappointing. We've got a good shot tomorrow in the minor and we still have our 21s (although Tipp are a serious outfit too). The future is fairly bright.

Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »

Up until Breen's goal, the tactics were working a treat.

Dublin had dropped a player back and Paudie was in the free man role, which was perfect. Lynch had dropped a bit out the field and was getting on plenty of ball. We also withdrew Mulcahy, which I did find strange, but he was getting onto puck-outs delivered into space from Quaid. Breen had pushed further up the pitch and was getting onto low-ball, which is actually the ball that suits him, rather than the high-ball his physique suggests, and he was causing problems. We had been on top for the first 20 minutes, hadn't really put it on the board, but after the goal, being 8 points up, I felt we would push on.

Dublin reacted by going man-for-man up front, got a few scores - we panicked and reverted to a more standard formation, Dowling at full, Downes into one corner, Lynch pushed back into the other, and from there on things went south. It was a hugely disappointing loss as the full-back line had improved massively, Richie was very good today and Hickey improved also, although he will be remembered yet again for slipping up (literally this time) at the end. Overall I thought the workrate had improved big-time from the previous matches, but once Dublin got the goal (the one error the full-back line made all day) we didn't have the cuteness to get back level - we made a hero out of Rushe in the last few minutes by hitting hopeful balls on top of a half-forward line that just isn't doing it winning possession instead of engineering a score.

I stayed for the first half of the second match, which was a lovely fluid open game of hurling that I knew wouldn't matter in the general scheme of things as Kilkenny would have blown either team off the field physically.

I'd agree with you about the tactics early on, things were going our way, partly because of a failure by Dublin but the work rate of the likes of Breen helped us a lot. He did tire and when he was taken off our half-forward literally won nothing. But it had turned before that, and it's true that TJ was unable to counteract any change in tactics which was very disappointing. We resorted to our old failings.


Paudie got on a huge amount of ball but he wasted a lot of it, I really don't think he's the best man to play that role... he's definitely able to pick a pass when he wants but a lot of the time he just drives it straight down the wing giving the forward no chance.


One thing in defence of TJ- it's not his fault our forwards were so bad, hitting wides in the first half. That game should have been put to bed. Dowling, Mulcahy, Jim-Bob, Paudie, Seanie O'Brien, Downes, Hannon, Dodge... I can remember really bad wides from all of them. Lynch doesn't shoot enough. Downes missed a good goal chance, Breen overcarried when we had another great chance... infuriating. But you have to be able to read the game as it changes and anyone could have told you before the game that Rushe is as good an aerial centre-back as anyone in the game. Low diagonal ball in front of the corner-forwards is what we need.



And Hickey's continuous slipping, which has happened about 10 times this season is really fcuking annoying. Get the man some proper studs ffs.

Twoman Fullbackline

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Totally disagree and normally your spot on
Limericks through fine goal breen only thing done game were awful poor wides as clear any team loose faith system and manager they do basics awfully


Take off dowling for Hannon who no work ethic was appalling and said it before tobin not good enough yet he started sub
Wayne mac should not started yet subbed as was poor


Course best man ptich warmed he's arse on the bench when this game was made for him as a sweeper


Management have drained energy out team with poor tactics and predicable game plan in too orthodox
This day in truth was always coming just a case of when not if imo

Limerick didn't go orthodox at the start, this is my point. The formation for the first twenty minutes was very unorthodox but was working. The wides were poor but there were as many if not more wides in the second game, not sure if the wind made it difficult but when we went 8 up we were in the driving seat. After that, absolutely the decisions made in the sideline were poor and contributed majorly to us losing the game. Seeing us going back to Lynch, Dowling and Downes in a three man full forward line worried me hugely, Hannon wasn't in the game but Dowling was subbed before him and James Ryan who couldn't use the ball played the whole game. Wayne Mac was best player for Limerick against Westmeath so I understand why he started but was not good today and was correctly subbed. Tobin was good enough when he came on, yet played full-forward with Downes beside him in the corner for most of the second half which I found bizarre.

thinkstoomuch1

Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »

Limerick didn't go orthodox at the start, this is my point. The formation for the first twenty minutes was very unorthodox but was working. The wides were poor but there were as many if not more wides in the second game, not sure if the wind made it difficult but when we went 8 up we were in the driving seat. After that, absolutely the decisions made in the sideline were poor and contributed majorly to us losing the game. Seeing us going back to Lynch, Dowling and Downes in a three man full forward line worried me hugely, Hannon wasn't in the game but Dowling was subbed before him and James Ryan who couldn't use the ball played the whole game. Wayne Mac was best player for Limerick against Westmeath so I understand why he started but was not good today and was correctly subbed. Tobin was good enough when he came on, yet played full-forward with Downes beside him in the corner for most of the second half which I found bizarre.

Ah jesus seriously with greatest respect westmeath hardly place judge player


Wayne mac and o brien and mahony time and time again unit last two years have not worked as a unit

Watch old games

Limerick were totally orthodox
Ryan doesn't know any other way and when plays sweeper can't actually effective implement it

You never once mentioned management tonight

Your a great posters surely surely you see this management is absolutely miles off I mean miles off all ireland
I hate to be blunt but limerick must be honest now

Twoman Fullbackline

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Ah jesus seriously with greatest respect westmeath hardly place judge player


Wayne mac and o brien and mahony time and time again unit last two years have not worked as a unit

Watch old games

Limerick were totally orthodox
Ryan doesn't know any other way and when plays sweeper can't actually effective implement it

You never once mentioned management tonight

Your a great posters surely surely you see this management is absolutely miles off I mean miles off all ireland
I hate to be blunt but limerick must be honest now

I have been critical of the management and their decisions time and time again on this site. I have just been critical of them about this match in both my posts, I will repeat - for the first 20 minutes the formation and tactics were good (given the team that was named anyways), but once Dublin made their move to go man for man up front, we did not react well at all.

There are enough posters calling for TJs head without me adding to the chorus tonight, I prefer to just give an assessment of the game now. There is plenty of time left in year now to critique the year as a whole from a squad and management point of view and as you can surely guess, it will not be a positive review. Certainly I agree the current management do not have what it takes, but I fear a rush decision will be made and Daly will be installed which I honestly honestly don't believe is the answer.

Rightwing

I'm not overly concerned with this defeat. It was a tremendous fluke for Dublin, but they stuck at it and we must credit them, I admire battlers against the odds, but they are going nowhere. The facts are we are well behind the top 2 and avoided another major embarrassment probably in the semi-final. A q/f team aren't capable of doing that, in fact we'd probably beat the likes of Galway.


Questions need to be asked and not just of TJ Ryan.

thinkstoomuch1

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not overly concerned with this defeat. It was a tremendous fluke for Dublin, but they stuck at it and we must credit them, I admire battlers against the odds, but they are going nowhere. The facts are we are well behind the top 2 and avoided another major embarrassment probably in the semi-final. A q/f team aren't capable of doing that, in fact we'd probably beat the likes of Galway.


Questions need to be asked and not just of TJ Ryan.

Your just unbelievable with respect

A defeat that has set limerick back five years your not concerned with it
What a statement


Ye wouldn't beat Galway certainly not cork and waterford beat ye and clare fully fit would beaten ye

thinkstoomuch1

http://m.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/limerick-bid-to-gain-dublin-revenge-1-6842955


This says it all by the player


Make or break for Limerick

Few this panel will imo retire and I feel for o grady two years great player play under poor management when he would make most teams in the country

Fireball07

I'll probably watch the match back at some point, but in the meantime, my first impressions of Jim-Bob were that he played very well, possibly our best player. Some criticism here but bar one bad wide, I thought his work rate was absolutely superb. No Dublin man got past him and he got on the ball more than anybody else for sure. He was the one man stemming the tide in the 2nd half when Dublin seemed to have the legs on us.


There's no point re-treading over old ground too much, most people know where the problems lie now. We are not getting the best out of our best players, particularly in attack, and defensively we look shaky. Realistically, we could be looking at up to six new players in the panel next year, just from the minor teams of the past few years. We just need a gameplan to suit them.

Rightwing

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Your just unbelievable with respect

A defeat that has set limerick back five years your not concerned with it
What a statement

We should have won, we didn't, sh!t happens. The telling story for me was the last 20 minutes V Tipp, that's what concerned me. I knew from that match that we are well off the pace. We aren't as bad as results suggest, but for a period V Dublin we were outscored 9 points to 1. This coupled with the final 20 minutes with Tipp suggests that there is something that badly needs rectifying.

Cork remain the dark horses for the AI.

galwaylad14

Two very bad teams. They both deserved to be knocked out to be honest.

Limerick were better and should have won it and to be honest with a bit of luck they would have won it but I wouldn't have any sympathy for them at the same time. That Dublin team are very poor and if you can't beat them without relying on a bit of luck then you deserve to be out of the championship. Harsh but it's true.



And before anyone jumps in saying how Galway took 2 goes at it to beat Dublin, and this is true, we were in fact easily better than them on both days just that in the drawn game the 4 or 5 goal chances stayed out but in the replay they went in. And anyway I don't really think we're contenders either to be honest.

Limerick to me looked like a team playing without a plan. Having a guy like Cian Lynch in corner forward is madness, he's not a corner forward, He needs to be out drifitng around the middle getting on to breaks and delivering ball into the forwards.

Also I really don't think some of those players there was high hopes for like Dowling, Downes and Hannon have really done it at senior level to be honest.

Rightwing

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Two very bad teams. They both deserved to be knocked out to be honest.

Limerick were better and should have won it and to be honest with a bit of luck they would have won it but I wouldn't have any sympathy for them at the same time. That Dublin team are very poor and if you can't beat them without relying on a bit of luck then you deserve to be out of the championship. Harsh but it's true.



And before anyone jumps in saying how Galway took 2 goes at it to beat Dublin, and this is true, we were in fact easily better than them on both days just that in the drawn game the 4 or 5 goal chances stayed out but in the replay they went in. And anyway I don't really think we're contenders either to be honest.

Limerick to me looked like a team playing without a plan. Having a guy like Cian Lynch in corner forward is madness, he's not a corner forward, He needs to be out drifitng around the middle getting on to breaks and delivering ball into the forwards.

Also I really don't think some of those players there was high hopes for like Dowling, Downes and Hannon have really done it at senior level to be honest.

Spot on.

I'd like to see Galway go all the way, but I fear they'd be little more than toilet paper V Tipp/KK. Not good for the game, but your analysis is honest.

thinkstoomuch1

Rightwing wrote: »

We should have won, we didn't, sh!t happens. The telling story for me was the last 20 minutes V Tipp, that's what concerned me. I knew from that match that we are well off the pace. We aren't as bad as results suggest, but for a period V Dublin we were outscored 9 points to 1. This coupled with the final 20 minutes with Tipp suggests that there is something that badly needs rectifying.

Cork remain the dark horses for the AI.

You have me worried when you say cork for all ireland
Your changing tune like the weather

Lot be done before we even think all ireland
One swallow never made a summer
Jbm suddenly your a fan now again

zombieHanalei

I wanted TJ to succeed so this is a sad day, I held off making any long term final judgements as he was essentially a rookie manager in 2014, 2015 was his first full season to stamp his own authority on things from day one, and 2015 was a terrible season. And it never really looked like being anything else in all honesty.


Although I'd love to go all Championship-Manager on you I think I'll just present the simple facts;
One third of the present squad will turn 29 or older in 2016.
Only two of the current panel are eligible for under 21 this year (as they will be for a further 2 years.)

(Current panel sorted by age turned in 2016)
36- D.O'Grady.
31- D.Breen, S.Walsh.
30- W.McNamara.
29- T.Condon, S.Hickey, C.King, R.McCarthy, G.O'Mahony, J.Ryan.
27- P.Browne, B.Hennessy, P.O'Brien, T.O'Brien, N.Quaid, S.Tobin.
26- C.Allis, P.Begley, G.Mulcahy.
25- K.Downes, A.Murphy, S.O'Brien.
24- A.Breen, J.Fitzgibbon, D.Hannon.
23- S.Dowling, D.Morrissey.
20- C.Lynch, T.Morrissey.

Better than evens chance of a new manager next year, honestly, I feel the current group has come to the end of the line and a few changes are required which would require a new man to come in and start from scratch.
You could easily cut about 8 to 10 players from the current panel, and make up the difference with the best from this years intermediate and under 21 panels.

I don't like to criticise individual players. One thing I do want to do however is say a few words about Donal O'Grady. It saddens me that he has very likely played his last game for the county and that what's probably his last year went the way it did. I've always admired him as a player, an ever present since he emerged in 2004/5 and I always described him with one word- intelligent. He was never an all action in your face kind of player, he was smarter than that, an excellent reader of the game who always used the ball smartly. He was one of the few who stood up and performed when we were all out at sea against Kilkenny in the 2007 final, it's hard to pick an iconic Donal O'Grady performance or moment but he was just so consistent. The most dependable player we had for a long time. Though not a natural centre back he filled in admirably in 2012 when we had no obvious candidate to replace Brian Geary, his athleticism has naturally started to wane as he moved towards his mid 30's but his mental attributes enabled him to prolong his career by a few years in this new era where it's now not uncommon for players to retire at 30/31. The last remaining link to our three in a row under 21 team, it's every bit as big a shame that he joins the likes of distinguished players like Ciarán Carey and Gary Kirby who never won the All-Ireland with Limerick.

I don't think he was used all that smartly by the management in 2015, maybe he'll still be involved in 2016 but you'd have to suspect not, will be sad to see him go on such a low ebb. Thanks for all you have done for this county "Dodge".

Rightwing

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You have me worried when you say cork for all ireland
Your changing tune like the weather

Lot be done before we even think all ireland
One swallow never made a summer
Jbm suddenly your a fan now again

Everyone in the country is a fan of JBM a true gentleman (as is TJ Ryan), and most managers in soccer and GAA would learn from the way he conducts himself.

When I say dark horses, I mean outsiders, clearly KK and Tipp are ahead of them, but Cork may be able to pull off a fluke if things go there way, they'll need luck but no one I know would begrudge JBM.

thinkstoomuch1

zombieHanalei wrote: »

I wanted TJ to succeed so this is a sad day, I held off making any long term final judgements as he was essentially a rookie manager in 2014, 2015 was his first full season to stamp his own authority on things from day one, and 2015 was a terrible season. And it never really looked like being anything else in all honesty.


Although I'd love to go all Championship-Manager on you I think I'll just present the simple facts;
One third of the present squad will turn 29 or older in 2016.
Only two of the current panel are eligible for under 21 this year (as they will be for a further 2 years.)

(Current panel sorted by age turned in 2016)
36- D.O'Grady.
31- D.Breen, S.Walsh.
30- W.McNamara.
29- T.Condon, S.Hickey, C.King, R.McCarthy, G.O'Mahony, J.Ryan.
27- P.Browne, B.Hennessy, P.O'Brien, T.O'Brien, N.Quaid, S.Tobin.
26- C.Allis, P.Begley, G.Mulcahy.
25- K.Downes, A.Murphy, S.O'Brien.
24- A.Breen, J.Fitzgibbon, D.Hannon.
23- S.Dowling, D.Morrissey.
20- C.Lynch, T.Morrissey.

Better than evens chance of a new manager next year, honestly, I feel the current group has come to the end of the line and a few changes are required which would require a new man to come in and start from scratch.
You could easily cut about 8 to 10 players from the current panel, and make up the difference with the best from this years intermediate and under 21 panels.

I don't like to criticise individual players. One thing I do want to do however is say a few words about Donal O'Grady. It saddens me that he has very likely played his last game for the county and that what's probably his last year went the way it did. I've always admired him as a player, an ever present since he emerged in 2004/5 and I always described him with one word- intelligent. He was never an all action in your face kind of player, he was smarter than that, an excellent reader of the game who always used the ball smartly. He was one of the few who stood up and performed when we were all out at sea against Kilkenny in the 2007 final, it's hard to pick an iconic Donal O'Grady performance or moment but he was just so consistent. The most dependable player we had for a long time. Though not a natural centre back he filled in admirably in 2012 when we had no obvious candidate to replace Brian Geary, his athleticism has naturally started to wane as he moved towards his mid 30's but his mental attributes enabled him to prolong his career by a few years in this new era where it's now not uncommon for players to retire at 30/31. The last remaining link to our three in a row under 21 team, it's every bit as big a shame that he joins the likes of distinguished players like Ciarán Carey and Gary Kirby who never won the All-Ireland with Limerick.

I don't think he was used all that smartly by the management in 2015, maybe he'll still be involved in 2016 but you'd have to suspect not, will be sad to see him go on such a low ebb. Thanks for all you have done for this county "Dodge".

Great post and we'll said bout o grady


McNamara breen o brien Fitzgibbon Reidy allis tobin and Hennessy imo be dropped


New coach with lot minors last year intermediate core this panel new style ye could do well

Problem is no real candidates for coach bar daly and daly has concerns too imo

Cunningjham I said it then would won ye all ireland

Ye don't have much options from outside man and limerick needs outside coach imo

Fireball07

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Also I really don't think some of those players there was high hopes for like Dowling, Downes and Hannon have really done it at senior level to be honest.

I agree with the rest of your post but I think saying that Dowling hasn't done it at senior level is harsh. He's probably our most important forward now, from play and frees. He was by far our best player against Tipp imo, he was an All-Star last year and one of the top scorers from play in the entire Championship.

Neither Hannon nor Downes have hit the heights of 2011 yet, for a variety of reasons, although they have shown flashes. Dowling is consistently good I would say.

zombieHanalei wrote: »

I wanted TJ to succeed so this is a sad day, I held off making any long term final judgements as he was essentially a rookie manager in 2014, 2015 was his first full season to stamp his own authority on things from day one, and 2015 was a terrible season. And it never really looked like being anything else in all honesty.


Although I'd love to go all Championship-Manager on you I think I'll just present the simple facts;
One third of the present squad will turn 29 or older in 2016.
Only two of the current panel are eligible for under 21 this year (as they will be for a further 2 years.)

(Current panel sorted by age turned in 2016)
36- D.O'Grady.
31- D.Breen, S.Walsh.
30- W.McNamara.
29- T.Condon, S.Hickey, C.King, R.McCarthy, G.O'Mahony, J.Ryan.
27- P.Browne, B.Hennessy, P.O'Brien, T.O'Brien, N.Quaid, S.Tobin.
26- C.Allis, P.Begley, G.Mulcahy.
25- K.Downes, A.Murphy, S.O'Brien.
24- A.Breen, J.Fitzgibbon, D.Hannon.
23- S.Dowling, D.Morrissey.
20- C.Lynch, T.Morrissey.

Better than evens chance of a new manager next year, honestly, I feel the current group has come to the end of the line and a few changes are required which would require a new man to come in and start from scratch.
You could easily cut about 8 to 10 players from the current panel, and make up the difference with the best from this years intermediate and under 21 panels.

I don't like to criticise individual players. One thing I do want to do however is say a few words about Donal O'Grady. It saddens me that he has very likely played his last game for the county and that what's probably his last year went the way it did. I've always admired him as a player, an ever present since he emerged in 2004/5 and I always described him with one word- intelligent. He was never an all action in your face kind of player, he was smarter than that, an excellent reader of the game who always used the ball smartly. He was one of the few who stood up and performed when we were all out at sea against Kilkenny in the 2007 final, it's hard to pick an iconic Donal O'Grady performance or moment but he was just so consistent. The most dependable player we had for a long time. Though not a natural centre back he filled in admirably in 2012 when we had no obvious candidate to replace Brian Geary, his athleticism has naturally started to wane as he moved towards his mid 30's but his mental attributes enabled him to prolong his career by a few years in this new era where it's now not uncommon for players to retire at 30/31. The last remaining link to our three in a row under 21 team, it's every bit as big a shame that he joins the likes of distinguished players like Ciarán Carey and Gary Kirby who never won the All-Ireland with Limerick.

I don't think he was used all that smartly by the management in 2015, maybe he'll still be involved in 2016 but you'd have to suspect not, will be sad to see him go on such a low ebb. Thanks for all you have done for this county "Dodge".

Some of those ages are slight exaggerations though- for example Seanie Tobin won't be 27 until December 2016. But I see your point and do agree that Dodge probably won't be back next year and it is sad that he never won an All-Ireland and that all he did win at senior level was a single Munster. He could have had so much more.


As for players being dropped... I do think we will see a lot of fresh blood next year. Alan Dempsey, Tom Ryan, Diarmuid Byrnes, Kevin O'Brien, Ronan Lynch, Andrew La Touche Cosgrave, Colin Ryan, Barry Nash, Tom Morrissey could all be involved next year. Now, I'd be surprised if they all were but I'd say a few of them have a pretty good chance. Darragh O'Donovan, Sean Finn, Michael Casey, Mark Carmody or even a couple of this year's minors (Seamus Flanagan, Peter Casey, Eoghan McNamara, Paddy O'Loughlin) could potentially be involved too.


I don't know if wholesale changes are the right way to go about things, but an injection of fresh blood and increased competition couldn't hurt. As for players being dropped, I would surprise if there were any big-name cuts tbh. For the most part, the players who are on the panel are among the best players in Limerick. To be cut from the panel completely, there would have to be 5 or 6 players in a particular line better than that player.


I think all the starters from this year will still be there, bar Dodge- Quaid, Walsh, Richie, Hickey, Seanie, Wayne, Gavin, Paudie, Jim-Bob, Browne, Hannon, Dowling, Lynch, Downes, Tobin, Mul, Breen, Condon. Hennessy will be there unless we find a better 2nd/3rd-choice keeper.



The players in real danger of leaving the panel are the likes of Cathal King, Conor Allis, Adrian Breen, Tommy O'Brien, Pa Begley... players who have made no real impact and at this stage are never likely to upon the intercounty scene. And then David Reidy, John Fitzgibbon and Dan Morrissey would probably all be measured up against those who are coming in but at least the three of them can look back at having improved this year and having made an impact.



All would depend on manager's preferences too.

Vanolder

As known since 14 Feb this year, the whole set up has been a shambles. Yes the players take some responsibility, and weve been unlucky with injuries, but we haven't had a game plan all year. Our touch has been way off. Intensity has been no existent. That all wrests with management who have been clueless on the sideline all year.

As an aside, how bad was McAllister yesterday? he rode Limerick rotten. Some of the worst refereeing i've ever witnessed.

weetabix12345

Vanolder wrote:

As an aside, how bad was McAllister yesterday? he rode Limerick rotten. Some of the worst refereeing i've ever witnessed.

Vanolder wrote:

yesterday

I don't think blaming the referee will make the wounds heal faster.
McAllister was poor for both teams yesterday.

Vanolder

weetabix12345 wrote: »

Vanolder wrote:

As an aside, how bad was McAllister yesterday? he rode Limerick rotten. Some of the worst refereeing i've ever witnessed.

I don't think blaming the referee will make the wounds heal faster.
McAllister was poor for both teams yesterday.

Not the reason Limerick lost, but he screwed Limerick over all day long. The pulling the Dubs did and got away with was a joke. Their goal came from one such incident.

Rightwing

He was very poor alright, but we had more than enough chances to win. I couldn't have seen us go much further though, maybe 1 more win.

paddy no 11

We don't have a puck out strategy or any discernible game plan, wtf do the coaches do with these players 3 nights a week.

Jimbob's confidence is shot yes he got on a world of ball but how many times does he get hooked on his left side how many times does he just launch long ball wide, any coach should be able to maximise this fellas ability

Im blue in the face from going on about breens head down attitude and yesterday it cost us a certain goal for dowling, why hasn't this been coached out of him, its obvious to me and I only see them play a few times a year, coaches have them 3 nights a week and don't do anything

We take POB one of the worst distributors of a ball you'll ever see and play him sweeper - Diarmuid byrnes a master of distribution nowhere, watch him Thursday

How many times have we written on here about two limerick players going up for the same ball and yesterday the fatal score from just that - the very basics are missing

These guys wouldn't coach ivy up a wall

We have to give the up and coming group of players a proper coach, there's phenomenal talent there lets not waste it.

Spoofers need not apply

Would love to see kinnerk involved

lim4ev

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Two very bad teams. They both deserved to be knocked out to be honest.

Limerick were better and should have won it and to be honest with a bit of luck they would have won it but I wouldn't have any sympathy for them at the same time. That Dublin team are very poor and if you can't beat them without relying on a bit of luck then you deserve to be out of the championship. Harsh but it's true.



And before anyone jumps in saying how Galway took 2 goes at it to beat Dublin, and this is true, we were in fact easily better than them on both days just that in the drawn game the 4 or 5 goal chances stayed out but in the replay they went in. And anyway I don't really think we're contenders either to be honest.

Limerick to me looked like a team playing without a plan. Having a guy like Cian Lynch in corner forward is madness, he's not a corner forward, He needs to be out drifitng around the middle getting on to breaks and delivering ball into the forwards.

Also I really don't think some of those players there was high hopes for like Dowling, Downes and Hannon have really done it at senior level to be honest.

I couldn't have put it better myself agree with all the above,am I deluding myself in saying that some of our big names haven't delivered because of the system/management etc?With all respects to Dublin when we were 8 pints up I was thinking if tipp or kk were playing these they'd beat them by 15 minimum and if we are to be contenders we need to do the same and then what happens?collapse in the typical Limerick whimper.

I'm being consistent here I feel we need to bring in a raft of the young players we have and see are they up to it a lot of the current set up have been given ample oppurtunities at this stage and imo need to move on.I think more need to go than stay.

Thanks for all your effort but this yr something was not right because the limerick I watched all season from the first match I saw in Kilmallock v Waterford we were poor.Big question now is do we try a new manager or stick with tj?I normally wouldn't like changing everytime we are beat but the team has been so poor all yr I feel he has to walk too

thinkstoomuch1

paddy no 11 wrote: »

We don't have a puck out strategy or any discernible game plan, wtf do the coaches do with these players 3 nights a week.

Jimbob's confidence is shot yes he got on a world of ball but how many times does he get hooked on his left side how many times does he just launch long ball wide, any coach should be able to maximise this fellas ability

Im blue in the face from going on about breens head down attitude and yesterday it cost us a certain goal for dowling, why hasn't this been coached out of him, its obvious to me and I only see them play a few times a year, coaches have them 3 nights a week and don't do anything

We take POB one of the worst distributors of a ball you'll ever see and play him sweeper - Diarmuid byrnes a master of distribution nowhere, watch him Thursday

How many times have we written on here about two limerick players going up for the same ball and yesterday the fatal score from just that - the very basics are missing

These guys wouldn't coach ivy up a wall

We have to give the up and coming group of players a proper coach, there's phenomenal talent there lets not waste it.

Spoofers need not apply

Would love to see kinnerk involved

Let's be realistic limerick needs realism and I'm one of the few constantly keep it real in ill call it as it is

I agree with most your post
Thing also is not many after cunningjham o grady Wallis affairs want work limerick county board imo


Kinnerk will not absoultey will not join limerick with Ryan as their style won't suit he's and he would be under mines imo by Ryan

Why would top top coach want work poor manager


Unless things change he going clare


He was offered very good expense package last year join limerick and refused
He won't join

It be extremely interesting the fans this management the board how they react now


And not all some players weren't exactly innocent in o grady affairs so they made their bed with wanted Ryan coach as coach now he's there another two years


Imagine o grady cunningjham two awesome coaches real tactical innovation ye would win all Ireland
Minors shafted Wallis so not many options left bar course daly

I don't like saying it but it's a mess for Limerick hurling and don't blame Ryan in board fault for putting him in there and there over moral victory false dawns kk loss he gets three year term


No easy fix for Limerick now and this set back limerick five years imo all ireland

Tough tough days ahead I fear
I hope I'm wrong