*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

Mehapoy

lim4ev wrote: »

Why?

Then there was one!what do people think if we did happen to beat clare and win the u21 next thur will it salvage a little from a massively disappointing yr or not?

In fairness any year a limerick team wins a Munster is a success considering we don't have that many winning teams, we struggle with teams outside of Munster though, it's like we need to be twice as good as the other team to win, even after 3 above average minor years we only won once out of 4 games, just goes to show we need to work even harder to try to produce players... Big if as well that we run that u21 down in ennis, hard to be optimistic for Limerick hurling after this year somehow...

lim4ev

Mehapoy wrote: »

In fairness any year a limerick team wins a Munster is a success considering we don't have that many winning teams, we struggle with teams outside of Munster though, it's like we need to be twice as good as the other team to win, even after 3 above average minor years we only won once out of 4 games, just goes to show we need to work even harder to try to produce players... Big if as well that we run that u21 down in ennis, hard to be optimistic for Limerick hurling after this year somehow...

Yes such a disappointing year considering I thought we could drive on from last yr with c lynch a real addition.

Still think we'r in a decent enough place we have maybe 5-6 players that look like they could step up of course whether they do or not remains to be seen.Our underage teams have been very competitive in recent years so we can't be a million miles off but no doubt we need the boost of a win on thursday

danganabu

danganabu wrote: »

Have no idea about his previous work but Fitzgerald has made a complete pigs ear of Drom and they have gone backwards under his management.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

He's ist year last year got semi in tipp and lost last few minutes having been poor before year before
You should research he's management
He's well proven at most levels as coach not manager in he's better coach imo

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Absolutely and I'm saying same you are
Im far writing them off
Its the other lad apparently knows what he talking about he says yet judged coach with out knowing much bout him
Some way judge fella when he great year drom last year

danganabu wrote: »

If you think getting to a county semi is considered as a successfull campaign for Drom then you clearly don't know what you are talking about, and so far this year they have scraped out a group that they should have strolled through and have been anything but impressive.

If you could formulate your reply into a coherent english sentence that would be most appreciated as well!

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Usual stuff when you loose your debate just like you done Cork thread when you made another illogical statement you could not back up
Old habits die hard
You do know where drom were at before he took over do you
Last year ist year was improvement

Well well Declan Fitzgerald sacked by Drom, must have been too much success for them to handle!!

savannahkat

Yeah He is just about as successful as JBM. thnktoomuch1 should really read doh'tinkenuff

Rasputin11

There are rumours of Joe Quaid being linked with the Offaly hurling job, what's his managerial background like?

Mountainlad

savannahkat wrote: »

Yeah He is just about as successful as JBM. thnktoomuch1 should really read doh'tinkenuff

JBM won an all Ireland with Cork as a manager, two munsters and a league title I believe. Nearly won an all Ireland with a Cork side that you couldn't say were any more than a decent team.

So he is far more successful than TJ Ryan, Declan Fitzgerald or indeed nearly all current hurling managers in the Country. You might not agree with the constant slating of TJ, and you're entitled to that, but your Counter argument is woeful.

glasagusban

Rasputin11 wrote: »

There are rumours of Joe Quaid being linked with the Offaly hurling job, what's his managerial background like?

Good luck to them!

Browney7

Rasputin11 wrote: »

There are rumours of Joe Quaid being linked with the Offaly hurling job, what's his managerial background like?

Think it would be a good move for both of them. Had Joe down as more of an underage coach. Another man who was treated badly by our county board

Mehapoy

Rasputin11 wrote: »

There are rumours of Joe Quaid being linked with the Offaly hurling job, what's his managerial background like?

Limerick camogie coach, involved heavily with Limerick underage and won the the all Ireland u16 with them 3 years ago, got shafted by the county board when going for the minor role the year after ...also coached Murroe boher senior hurlers I think at one stage...

Stonehall9

danganabu wrote: »

Well well Declan Fitzgerald sacked by Drom, must have been too much success for them to handle!!

When he was with ballybrown they got to a county intermedy final and he was going around takin credit for it, talk in to a couple of ballybrown fellas back then in town after it and they reckoned he was a fitness coach but hadn't a clue as regards hurling coach,

Rasputin11

danganabu wrote: »

Well well Declan Fitzgerald sacked by Drom, must have been too much success for them to handle!!

Drom didn't get to a county semi last year, I think Sars bet them in the last 16. I was at Sars Drom last weekend and watched Fitzgerald berate a linesman for a couple of minutes over a referees call, it looked desperate. It's no surprise he was sacked at all from what I've heard.

danganabu

Stonehall9 wrote: »

When he was with ballybrown they got to a county intermedy final and he was going around takin credit for it, talk in to a couple of ballybrown fellas back then in town after it and they reckoned he was a fitness coach but hadn't a clue as regards hurling coach,

Yeah from what I have seen of him with Drom its all about Declan and he has a very very high opinion of himself and had Drom playing an awfull style of hurling.

With regard to his sideline demeanour I was doing umpire in a county league game last year and his carry on on the sideline was scandalous and the verbal abuse that he gave the referee was patethic, the Drom captain came in to the referees room after and apologised, soething very wrong when that is happening.

Rasputin11

danganabu wrote: »

Yeah from what I have seen of him with Drom its all about Declan and he has a very very high opinion of himself and had Drom playing an awfull style of hurling.

With regard to his sideline demeanour I was doing umpire in a county league game last year and his carry on on the sideline was scandalous and the verbal abuse that he gave the referee was patethic, the Drom captain came in to the referees room after and apologised, soething very wrong when that is happening.

He was near fighting with one of his own selectors on other days on the sideline. Had the Drom captain in question the same name as an Inter County ref?

danganabu

Rasputin11 wrote: »

He was near fighting with one of his own selectors on other days on the sideline. Had the Drom captain in question the same name as an Inter County ref?

That's the one alright. Not sure if he is the actual captain this year but for the county league he was as there are no county players involved.

glasagusban

Mehapoy wrote: »

Limerick camogie coach, involved heavily with Limerick underage and won the the all Ireland u16 with them 3 years ago, got shafted by the county board when going for the minor role the year after ...also coached Murroe boher senior hurlers I think at one stage...

Manager, not coach.

dcrosskid

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

He's ist year last year got semi in tipp and lost last few minutes having been poor before year before
You should research he's management
He's well proven at most levels as coach not manager in he's better coach imo

Heard that Fitzgerald is now finished with Drom after they were beaten by Sars last weekend in a divisional semi final.

savannahkat

Mountainlad wrote: »

JBM won an all Ireland with Cork as a manager, two munsters and a league title I believe. Nearly won an all Ireland with a Cork side that you couldn't say were any more than a decent team.

So he is far more successful than TJ Ryan, Declan Fitzgerald or indeed nearly all current hurling managers in the Country. You might not agree with the constant slating of TJ, and you're entitled to that, but your Counter argument is woeful.

Fair play to you son for such valued Info, now tell me what did he do in the past two years that TJ did not, you see nearly every thing you said about JBM was achieved about sixteen years ago and TJ has only been in charge foe a year and a half.

Mountainlad

savannahkat wrote: »

Fair play to you son for such valued Info, now tell me what did he do in the past two years that TJ did not, you see nearly every thing you said about JBM was achieved about sixteen years ago and TJ has only been in charge foe a year and a half.

JBM has won Munster and guided Cork to a league final. He also got them to a quarter final this year whereas Limerick lost in a qualifier. JBM helped Cork get promoted, Limerick have failed to get promote in either year with TJ Ryan at the helm. So Corks performance I would say is substantially better. Not to mention nearly winning an all Ireland, which happened in the 2nd year he was in charge of Cork in the 2nd term so is comparable to Ryan's performance this year.

glasagusban

Ryan in for the injured Kevin O'Brien, ALTC on the bench.

savannahkat

Mountainlad wrote: »

JBM has won Munster and guided Cork to a league final. He also got them to a quarter final this year whereas Limerick lost in a qualifier. JBM helped Cork get promoted, Limerick have failed to get promote in either year with TJ Ryan at the helm. So Corks performance I would say is substantially better. Not to mention nearly winning an all Ireland, which happened in the 2nd year he was in charge of Cork in the 2nd term so is comparable to Ryan's performance this year.

He got Cork demoted as well, why oh why, can you not tell the whole story. all I read in your passage was he almost did this and almost did that, well all most never bulled a cow.

savannahkat

P.S.
It was TJ's fault Limerick were not promoted in 2014. That can be laid totally at the feet of Donal O'Grady another Cork man I do not rate very highly as a coach, in fact on second thoughts I don't rate him at all..

Smith614

With all respects some coaches on here are being labelled as top top coaches but iv seen a few of them at close quarters and they are spoofers.

lim4ev

Anyway outside of all the talk on managers what about the biggest issue at hand which is tomorrow nights 21 match what do people think of the team our chances etc

zombieHanalei

lim4ev wrote: »

Anyway outside of all the talk on managers what about the biggest issue at hand which is tomorrow nights 21 match what do people think of the team our chances etc

Decent team on paper; don't really understand how Waterford and Tipp were such raging hot favourites in the semi's, this was always going to be the most wide open Munster U21 in years, four very evenly matched teams with Cork unfortunately lagging a bit behind. Can't really comment on Clare as I didn't see their game but a strong team on paper with a healthy sprinkling of senior experience. Cusack Park has not been a happy hunting ground for us over the years, I don't think we'll win but we've a strong enough team to run it very close.

glasagusban

lim4ev wrote: »

Anyway outside of all the talk on managers what about the biggest issue at hand which is tomorrow nights 21 match what do people think of the team our chances etc

We have a quality team. Kind of hard to judge how good we are, last game was so topsy turvy. A lot will depend on if we can limit O'Donnell and Duggan. This Clare group is not as exceptional as their last two years but they are extremely well prepared and coached which was the difference in their game against Waterford.


I'd like to see Byrnes at 6 from the start. Our full back line is good but will be severely tested against Clare. Kevin O'Brien never caught fire last game but is a loss, though Ryan was excellent coming in. We need more from Morrissey, and especially more from Ronan Lynch who is clearly rusty after a long period with little hurling. It would be good if we could bring Cian Lynch into the game more consistently too.

I think Clare have to be solid favourites for this game given their more impressive win in a much higher standard of game in their last game, in addition to their excellent preparation and consistency from the last few years and their home advantage.

zombieHanalei

As for seniors, the guy I know on the inside (very minor backroom role) won't be there for very much longer, all of a sudden he has been dishing the dirt. He wouldn't mind (not too much) me saying that I reckon he's just sore at being let go, because as I said to him he hadn't a bad word to say about how things were going for the last two years up to now!

In a nutshell, he's dismissive of my thoughts on the management and how they set the team up tactically as he says it's the players who are dictating the style of play and not management. A claim which if true, is obviously something to be greatly concerned about. The reason I can't entirely dismiss that claim is because part of the reason things fell apart under the joint Donal O'Grady / TJ Ryan management was the players were unhappy with how O'Grady was directing things tactically. It can't be denied that once he left we reverted to a more traditional style of Limerick hurling.

Maybe there's something in it, but a part of me is unwilling to completely accept that TJ is a doormat who would bend to the will of the players like that, it's a bold claim to make about a manager that he would let his players dictate tactics and style of play.


Another thing I was thinking about; Richie McCarthy. I love the guy, has been very dependable and put in some excellent performances for us. And for the medium term he's probably safe as the first choice number 3. One of the things that stuck with me however was the Tipperary match. Yes he was cleaned out but he wasn't 100% fit, he probably shouldn't have been selected. But the thing that stuck with me was the large cheer that went up from a big section of the Tipp fans when he was taken off in that game.

But the thing is; the Tipp fans weren't laughing at Richie McCarthy, they were laughing at the Limerick fans and how they have built him up to be this cult hero. Those chaps up behind the scoreboard throwing green smoke bombs and chanting Sean South have this Richie McCarthy chant to the 7 nations army melody. Why do Limerick do this?

He's a fine player, but let's look at this through non-Limerick eyes. Richie McCarthy is one of the best full backs in the country, he has one one All-Star in 2013 and was nominated but not selected in 2014. He has a Munster title from 2013, a NHL division 2 title from 2011, a Munster Intermediate medal from 2008 and appeared in the 2005 All-Ireland minor final. And I think he also helped Blackrock make it to the All-Ireland junior club final in 2010?

Nothing wrong with all that, obviously a great servant to club and county, but our fans sing about him in a way that you wouldn't even hear Kilkenny fans sing about fella's like DJ Carey and Henry Shefflin!

Any man who represents our county is unconditionally deserving of our support and respect. But we don't tend to stop there, there's an element within this county that builds our players up into legends just for playing a few good games? Does that not create an environment where simply becoming a first team player is "making it"? Is that 'the big time' for a Limerick hurler? Once you make the county team that's the time to start opening shops and becoming ambassadors for car companies? 21/22 year olds being given free cars for what exactly? Because they are a Limerick player?

It's a tricky one, because not for one second am I doubting their commitment and the amount of work they put into being an inter county player, and as I said they are unconditionally deserving of our respect and support for that. But where is the line? Do they do this in Kilkenny? Because they are the benchmark. There are players in Kilkenny who have All-Ireland medals that aren't even household names. Never mind held up as cult heroes.

Back to Richie McCarthy, again, I cannot emphasise enough that I have complete confidence in him. But let's look at things objectively; his weakness is no big secret- pace. He's not the worst but he's not the quickest. Would Kilkenny or Tipperary make a ruthless decision on him; he's 29 next year, his pace up to this year hasn't been a problem but it cost us a few times this year. Does he have the physical attributes to cover for a weakness that only gets worse as a player hits 30 and beyond? Personally I'm still happy to have him there for another few years but would that mean I'm not ruthless enough in my thinking? I'm only asking questions here, I'm not giving definitive answers because to be honest I'm not fully certain myself. Are we quick enough to make calls on players?

We have tended to hang on to certain players a bit too long and it can sometimes take a player getting cleaned out a few times too many for us to finally pull the trigger. Cody makes tough calls like this on a yearly basis, dropping Tommy Walsh for example was a huge call. But in Limerick; we brought Niall Moran back and he was well past his peak, we probably stuck with Ollie Moran a year too long too. There were question marks over Stephen Lucey that were ruthlessly answered in the 2009 All-Ireland semi final, Brian Geary was never the same when he returned after the 2010 debacle, those are some of the main examples but if you sat down and looked at our teams over the last 15 years you could pick out other examles of players who we were arguably not ruthless enough to recognise they were moving past their peak.

I don't know what to make of it. I think there is a culture change required in this county. Our present panel has been largely unchanged for 5 years, it hasn't got what it takes to win the All-Ireland, a shake up needed, and bold calls need to be made as to the make up of our panel. And management team, not saying TJ needs to go, but he needs to take proper control, needs to assemble the right men on the pitch and on the sideline. A 'more of the same' approach will bury us.

lim4ev

Zombie

I don't think comparing us to kk is the way forward as they have a better quantity of top class players than we have with regard to Richie i'd keep him on but next yr i'd start condon and English in a few games to see what they can do I was at the very first few games this yr and the full back line was walsh condon and hickey now maybe other players were asked and couldn't commit for whatever reason but it seems crazy to me that you wouldn't try some one else in a line we knew we could struggle with.

At a minimum we need to change one player in each line and maybe even more next yr and there's a lot of dead wood in the panel that need to be moved on.Players I think could be given a chance to start next yr would be English,casey,byrnes,o Donovan,c ryan t Morrissey with a few more given chances to make the panel.

There's a few on the team at the moment and are going thru the motions esp up front we need change!!!If you look at us towards cork we both have problems but I don't think we have as many as they do,surely we have way more options at bringing in new players than they have considering recent underage success which by the way isn't the be all and end all as we have competed in the last 30yrs with minimum underage success.

glasagusban

Zombie Hanalei, good post but I think you may be overreacting a bit.

On McCarthy, the best full back in Ireland in recent years and should have won the all star last year too but for the love in for a retiring JJ, an eye catching hook, and an all Ireland win. Not a speedster but quick over the first few yards which is more important. Probably could keep himself in better condition. Injury hampered v Tipp and cleaned out by the form forward in the country. At least partly due to Tipp having all the time in the world to send perfect ball in and the fact that he was left in an ocean of space with no protection. Add to that corner backs either side of him being well cleaned too to make matters worse.

Age wise, he has a minimum two more years at or close to his peak. More if he takes care of himself better. Replacement wise condon is what, the same age about, and certainly isn't a better full back. English and O'Connell are potential future replacements but neither will be better than him in the next two years. I think Richie has been unfairly scapegoated. The question of replacing him if anyone is suggesting it is an irrational reaction IMO and considering dropping him off the panel is borderline ridiculous.

As regards the chant, Richie has been a talisman but it's just a catchy chant. If it wasn't so catchy it wouldn't have kept going, simple as that.

Finally, Kilkenny replace players under performing but they have constantly had replacements coming though. We haven't had that. Arguably we do for next season and you'd expect a few new faces. But unlikely to be more than three new players in the starting team next year realistically. Also, when you look at kk, the replacements have generally been on the panel a while and come through in their early 20s, as opposed to younger. Not really comparing like with like.

Mountainlad

savannahkat wrote: »

P.S.
It was TJ's fault Limerick were not promoted in 2014. That can be laid totally at the feet of Donal O'Grady another Cork man I do not rate very highly as a coach, in fact on second thoughts I don't rate him at all..

He has an all Ireland with Cork and won a league 1B title with Limerick who have spent how many years now not being able to get out of the division?

How can it be totally laid at the feet of O Grady? They were joint managers.

I dunno if TJ is your brother or what but he did well last year but in his first full year they have been absolutely awful. It's up too Limerick where they go from here, wouldn't necessarily be saying he should be sacked I think there's two considerations:

1. Can TJ explain to the board what went wrong and how it can be rectified? Has he a plan?

2. Is there a better alternative? Maybe they just need to add to the setup. Her Cunningham (Limerick) is a great coach and would have thought he could tempted from Laois.

paddy no 11

bringing in new players wont do anything if there not being coached trained properly, all the upcoming talent could be wasted. This year was a disaster, without change it'll be the same next year. Not much else is relevant imo.

Looking forward to tomorrow's game