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*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*
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A mighty, mighty win for our 21s on Thursday night. It's been a bad year for Limerick GAA all round really, the minors exceeded expectations but fell a bit flat in the end but getting a Munster title and beating two good sides is a huge boost. We have some very talented young players coming through. And it was proper Limerick hurling as well, a victory built around ferocious work rate and intensity. Obviously there was no little skill too, we played smart heads-up hurling with good ball into our forwards for the most part which is the style we probably should be playing with our seniors too as it suits the players that we have. Our players were in top physical condition, maybe we should try and get Ross Corbett involved with the seniors. The work rate was brilliant, some of the tackling fantastic, particularly from our forwards- it's how Kilkenny have won so many All-Irelands... if you can force mistakes in the opposition backline, scores are a lot easier to come by. John Kiely is a passionate Limerick GAA man too, very animated on the sideline.
Most of ye will know I've been raving about Colin Ryan for a while now, I thought he was class inside in the corner. I thought it was perhaps a bit surprising that he wasn't out on the 40 where he'd be a great puckout target but he cause O'Brien huge problems. One of my favourite players to watch, really talented and I would be hugely shocked if he doesn't play senior for Limerick. Where to play him is probably the real question... corner-forward, half-forward, midfield, half-back... he could do a great job in any of those positions. He's really good in the air, really strong, really fast, good first touch and best of all, he fights for everything. Not afraid to take a belt to win a free either.
Huge credit must go to my own clubmate too, Barry O'Connell- fifth year on the panel, 2nd Munster medal in a time which has been dominated by a special Clare team, not too shabby. I thought he was superb too, his use of the ball and awareness of space are top class. I would say over the course of the two games to date, he has only lost the ball once. The half-back line in general were brilliant, a really solid foundation for the team to be built upon. Byrnes and Hegarty were plucking balls out of the sky over their men the whole time, real warriors. Hegarty is one of the best footballers in the county, if not the best, but is a good hurler too and Byrnes is a real leader although the execution of his passing could be improved. In general though, we used it very well and having that as well as a strong physical and aerial presence is a huge asset, it meant Clare struggled with their puckouts, and it's something our senior setup could learn. I thought Hegarty would be a big loss when he had to come off injured but Flanagan was very good too.
The full-back line did pretty well, all things considered. English stuck to SOD fairly well, O'Callaghan was better than the last day and Finn was a good replacement when he got the yellow card and Casey is a proper sticky corner-back. Maybe it's our weakest line but they coped well.
The two Doon lads in midfield were very good again, work rate is unbelievable. They help both the half-back and half-forward lines so much and Pat Ryan's shoulder was probably the highlight of the match. I could see both being options at senior at the very least. And Cian Lynch, after a quiet enough game against Tipp, was superb. Ran the show in the 2nd half, his skill levels are just out of this world. Some dodgy flicks at times but really it would be hard to fault him. Was way more involved and that's what you need from someone like him.
I like Robbie Hanley, I like that he's not one of the "bigger names" and has still got a place in the team. He works so so hard and is probably why he's there, we want our forwards to run themselves into the ground and he does that. Maybe not as natural a scoretaker as some of the others but still a good hurler and a valuable asset. Tom Morrissey's touch was slightly off, but again, his work rate was unbelievable, won a lot of ball from Clare puckouts and laid it off, improved when he came out to centre-forward and I've been impressed any time he's played there.
The two Na Piarsaigh lads were good too, David Dempsey perhaps not as prominent as the last day, quiet enough in the 2nd half but again, two nice scores, can't argue with that. And huge credit for Ronan Lynch... three years ago in the minor game between the teams, he missed a lot of frees which arguably cost us the game. That could possibly have preyed on his mind but he was deadly accurate from placed balls. He was only 15 then, he's 18 or 19 now and he was superb when he went inside. Two or three from play too. I think his best position is midfield or half-back... his one weakness is he perhaps lacks a bit of speed but you can see why he's often been played as a forward, his striking is so good. Reminds me of Dowling in so many ways.
Good for ALTC to get some gametime under his belt, will be an asset. Finn and Flanagan were good. Kelliher came on and got another score in limited time. I really hope we kick on now, 4 years ago it was disappointing against Galway but the talent is definitely there, the management team seem good. Can we improve? Of course, there were some faults... we dominated most of the game but only won by three points; I have no idea how we were down at the break. But it's good for these players and it's good for Limerick hurling. Particularly since so many of this team are really young, and will be underage again next year and some the year after. As far as I know, only four of the players who started are overage next year. It does include the whole half-back line which is very strong but still, it's something to look forward to.0 -
Just to pick up on the point in bold, by all accounts Ronan Lynch, Tom Morrissey and Kevin O'Brien haven't hit real form at all for the 21s this year so when they hit form, we'll have seriously good forward lines.
Kevin is, I think, the top goal scorer in the county championship at the moment so he's capable of much more. I understand he's been off form at the moment but he needs to be full forward if played.
Morrissey is another who can catch fire when he wants and when he's good, he's very good. Can possibly be accused of laziness at times and perhaps why he doesn't score as much.
We all know what Ronan Lynch is capable of. He's lacking in fitness at the moment and possibly out of position but on form, he's a big asset in the half forward line. Any closer to goal than that and he's wasted.
Perhaps a slight problem in that KOB, Lynch and Morrissey are all most comfortable at full-forward. Lynch was superb when he went inside there, and perhaps lacks pace for the corner. Could put him back at wing-forward or centre-forward (although his best position is probably further back). Kevin O'Brien is a fine target man and while he'll do a decent job in the corner, he's more likely to get the goals on the edge of the square. Morrissey could be a very good job at centre-forward but anyone who saw what he did with the intermediates may think it's an awful shame not to have him at 14.
But if I was picking the forwards for the next day, I'd now probably go:Lynch KOB
Dempsey Morrissey Ryan
With Ronan Lynch at full-forward, and KOB playing where Colin Ryan was and putting Ryan out at wing-forward. Andrew La Touche Cosgrave is also another good option.
I expect Ryan to start inside with Lynch though tbh. If anyone is going to lose out, it probably will be Hanley who has been the first forward replaced every time, perhaps harshly.0 -
the half forward line is weakish i'd love to see hegarty at 11 powerful man0
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TTM
On the cork site you say that wexford u21s will win the all irl and say limk time will come we had a little spat a few weeks ago when I thought you were writing off limk because you never mentioned them when you were talking of potential winners of munster now you seem to be doing the same is there any chance you might be wrong?we all know wex are favourite.For whats its worth I think we'll struggle with galway let alone wex but I would not write them off0 -
glasagusban wrote: »On McCarthy, the best full back in Ireland in recent years and should have won the all star last year too but for the love in for a retiring JJ, an eye catching hook, and an all Ireland win. Not a speedster but quick over the first few yards which is more important. Probably could keep himself in better condition.
Nothing to be gained by dragging this up I'm sure but I can't see any way in which Richie was better than JJ last year. No one was close to JJ in my view.
You do raise a good point about poor condition, no one doubts his efforts on match days as it's clear to see, I presume he gives it his all at training too but perhaps it's fair to ask whether he is doing as much as he can to play at his best for Limerick. If he is fine he can't do any more but his condition does at least beg the question.
I'm probably being harsh and am no adonis myself but Limericks full back and full forward are both out of shape, it's nigh on impossible to get away with that in the modern game and while they are fine hurlers and frequently play very well the question is could they do more and therefore play better? I'd be surprised if the answer is no.
I think it'd be remiss of Limk not to try English, nothing to lose. He's well able to hurl and will get better.0 -
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Nothing to be gained by dragging this up I'm sure but I can't see any way in which Richie was better than JJ last year. No one was close to JJ in my view.
You do raise a good point about poor condition, no one doubts his efforts on match days as it's clear to see, I presume he gives it his all at training too but perhaps it's fair to ask whether he is doing as much as he can to play at his best for Limerick. If he is fine he can't do any more but his condition does at least beg the question.
I'm probably being harsh and am no adonis myself but Limericks full back and full forward are both out of shape, it's nigh on impossible to get away with that in the modern game and while they are fine hurlers and frequently play very well the question is could they do more and therefore play better? I'd be surprised if the answer is no.
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I think it'd be remiss of Limk not to try English, nothing to lose. He's well able to hurl and will get better.
Some good points re conditions of players but don't agree re jj last yr I thought r mac was the best full back last yr i'm not saying mac is a better full back overall but last yr he was in my view0 -
the half forward line is weakish i'd love to see hegarty at 11 powerful man
While I like Hegarty as a forward, I think you'd be mad to change the half-back line who have been the basis of our victory.
Barry O'Connell played centre-forward today for us in the club championship, scored 1-3 from play, ran riot against Newcastlewest who were a lot poorer than I thought they'd be.
A half-forward line of Dempsey, Morrissey & Ryan would be very very strong imo.0 -
That was a ridiculous rant against Richie a few pages back; yes 90kgs does seem a bit excessive but he was arguably Limks best player yet again v Dublin, barring that unfortunate incident for the goal.
And it's his bullheaded no-frills style which makes him a cult hero with the fans, not the most artistic but a style that has always gone down well with Limk fans. Songs being sung about Richie Mac are the least of our problems.
Some of our other positions would be better subjected to scrutiny, including underage 'stars' who have failed to consistently transfer that potential to senior level.0 -
Fireball07 wrote: »While I like Hegarty as a forward, I think you'd be mad to change the half-back line who have been the basis of our victory.
Barry O'Connell played centre-forward today for us in the club championship, scored 1-3 from play, ran riot against Newcastlewest who were a lot poorer than I thought they'd be.
A half-forward line of Dempsey, Morrissey & Ryan would be very very strong imo.
Fair enough the hf line you mentioned is decent but shows our original hf line is weak0 -
Nothing to be gained by dragging this up I'm sure but I can't see any way in which Richie was better than JJ last year. No one was close to JJ in my view.
You do raise a good point about poor condition, no one doubts his efforts on match days as it's clear to see, I presume he gives it his all at training too but perhaps it's fair to ask whether he is doing as much as he can to play at his best for Limerick. If he is fine he can't do any more but his condition does at least beg the question.
I'm probably being harsh and am no adonis myself but Limericks full back and full forward are both out of shape, it's nigh on impossible to get away with that in the modern game and while they are fine hurlers and frequently play very well the question is could they do more and therefore play better? I'd be surprised if the answer is no.
I think it'd be remiss of Limk not to try English, nothing to lose. He's well able to hurl and will get better.
Just to be clear, JJ is an all time great. The best defender of modern times, and one of the top players ever. Richie is not at that level. But, I do think Richie was better than him last year based on championship performance. I think Callanan caused JJ a lot more difficulty than he did Richie -again emphasis on last year.
Conditioning, I don't know. Richie has been in great shape for championship the last two years and finished every 70 minutes like he started. I think perhaps he could do better but conditioning hasn't been an issue for him the last two summers I feel.
I want to put this one to bed now: Dowling has no issues with conditioning. He carried a bit of weight during the league last year but was in great shape come summer. This year he was in great shape and not only worked harder than every other forward against Tipp he was out in front of his man every time, well beat him for pace. Having seen him up close he had no issues with conditioning this year. Any talk to the contrary is stereotyping and not based on the guy or on his performance on the field.
Overall, the team this year did not look to be hopping off the ground. I don't know if that's any reflection on their conditioning, we looked nowhere near the level of Tipp. But then we were just listless in general.
There definitely is "something to lose" in starting English at full back next year: Richie. With JJ gone he will probably next year comfortably be the best full back in Ireland if he regains 2013-2014 form. I'd expect to see English come in corner back though.0 -
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Bottom line is yes like I said yes if beat Galway huge under dogs suit ye but I just view no team left beat Wexford that means Galway or limerick as they have experienceTTM
On the cork site you say that wexford u21s will win the all irl and say limk time will come we had a little spat a few weeks ago when I thought you were writing off limk because you never mentioned them when you were talking of potential winners of munster now you seem to be doing the same is there any chance you might be wrong?we all know wex are favourite.For whats its worth I think we'll struggle with galway let alone wex but I would not write them off
Limerick will win all ireland this gradein the next two years but huge ask expect them beat experience Wexford if they meet
Course I could be wrong and I'd love to be but I think if limerick play Wexford Wexford course going be huge favourite
Ye have huge game v Galway limerick bogeys team ye can win but key is the start
Galway are tricky in hard know much about them
Whatever happens in all ireland series it's been good ist year for the team0 -
glasagusban wrote: »Just to be clear, JJ is an all time great. The best defender of modern times, and one of the top players ever. Richie is not at that level. But, I do think Richie was better than him last year based on championship performance. I think Callanan caused JJ a lot more difficulty than he did Richie -again emphasis on last year.
Conditioning, I don't know. Richie has been in great shape for championship the last two years and finished every 70 minutes like he started. I think perhaps he could do better but conditioning hasn't been an issue for him the last two summers I feel.
I want to put this one to bed now: Dowling has no issues with conditioning. He carried a bit of weight during the league last year but was in great shape come summer. This year he was in great shape and not only worked harder than every other forward against Tipp he was out in front of his man every time, well beat him for pace. Having seen him up close he had no issues with conditioning this year. Any talk to the contrary is stereotyping and not based on the guy or on his performance on the field.
Overall, the team this year did not look to be hopping off the ground. I don't know if that's any reflection on their conditioning, we looked nowhere near the level of Tipp. But then we were just listless in general.
There definitely is "something to lose" in starting English at full back next year: Richie. With JJ gone he will probably next year comfortably be the best full back in Ireland if he regains 2013-2014 form. I'd expect to see English come in corner back though.
I'll start at the end! There's still nothing to lose by trying English at all full back, if Richie is better then fine but if he's not good enough he loses out, same applies to every position on the field surely.
On Dowling I agree that his performance against Tipp was excellent but that doesn't exempt him from criticism. Fair enough if you know him but I can only go on what I see and he and Richie do not look in peak condition so the question still stands could they do more or be better. If I'm wrong then grand but if not I think it reflects poorly on management really.
On JJ maybe I'm blinded by THAT hook so I'll concede on that point. Actually I'd give the nod to Peter Kelly, I think he's top class full back but Richie was excellent in 2013 & 2014.0 -
Senior
Group 1
Kilmallock 0-25 Effin 0-07
Murroe/Boher 1-13 Ahane 1-11
Patrickswell 0-17 South Liberties 0-09
|Pts
Patrickswell|8
Kilmallock|8
South Liberties|3
Murroe/Boher|2
Ahane|2
Effin|1
Huge, huge win for Murroe/Boher today. They had been in a bit of trouble but that's a great win for them against an Ahane side who were without key players in Niall Moran & Dan Morrissey. Kilmallock and Patricksweel are both through obviously, they just have to play each other to see who gets top spot. It will be interesting though, Patrickswell are being tipped by lots of people, but it might be a year or two early for them and Kilmallock are still the champions. Effin look like they'll be going down now, but have the chance to stay up against Murroe/Boher. Ahane hammered South Liberties in a quarter-final last year and did well in reaching a semi but now they may struggle to even make the knockout phases. Dan Morrissey is a big, big player for them, he's a loss.
Group 2
Adare 2-15 Doon 1-15
Ballybrown 2-18 Croom 1-12
Na Piarsaigh 6-15 Bruff 2-05
|Pts
Na Piarsaigh|7
Ballybrown|5
Adare|5
Doon|2
Bruff|2
Croom|1
In this group, both Doon and Croom have a game in hand, which you'd expect Doon to win and you'd think that will bring them up to 4. But it was a great win for Adare today, I would have backed Doon but maybe it was tough for them with three of their big players being involved with the U-21s only a couple of days ago. Still they had the game in their grasp, Willie Griffin's goal seemed to turn it in Adare's favour. With Adare to play Bruff now, you'd expect them to probably sneak through, despite this being their first win. If Doon do beat Croom, it will be a winner-take-all clash between them and Ballybrown, while Na Piarsaigh should beat Croom. Na Piarsaigh ran up an absolutely massive score today, they had 5 goals in the first half and that was without Shane Dowling. Will they peak in time for the semi-final and final is the real question.
Overall the real hopes for neutrals in the county and for Limerick hurling is that Patrickswell do become a force to be reckoned with again, and that Doon & Adare either maintain their current level or push on even more. Adare would seem to be on a bit of a downward spiral in general, but Doon have a young team still.
Premier Intermediate
Garryspillane 1-17 Bruree 0-14
Knockainey 1-14 Dromin/Athlacca 0-14
Monaleen 0-16 Pallasgreen 0-15
|Pts
Knockainey|9
Garryspillane|6
Bruree|6
Monaleen|6
Granagh/Ballingarry|4
Pallasgreen|3
Blackrock|3
Dromin/Athlacca|1
In this division, the Blackrock-G/B game of this round is due to take place next weekend so both of them have a game in hand. It's pretty tight as expected but we do have a clear top and bottom team already, and they played each other this weekend. Two games to go for most teams here but Knockainey are ensured of a place in the semi-finals, and will likely take top spot. Not many would have had them as the clear best side in the division but of course, they could easily lose in the semi-final still. Dromin/Athlacca cannot make the semi-finals and have games against G/B and Pallasgreen to save them. This weekend, the two promoted teams played and Monaleen edged Pallasgreen by a single point. Garryspillane also got a good win over a Bruree side who had been unbeaten. Still very close and there is a realistic enough chance of 6 teams battling for 3 semi-final places, as well as one going down.
Intermediate
Group 1
Cappamore 1-12 Knockaderry 0-09
Feenagh/Kilmeedy 1-13 St. Kieran's 3-07
Mungret 4-22 Caherline 2-12
|Pts
Mungret|8
Cappamore|6
Feenagh/Kilmeedy|4
Knockaderry|3
St. Kieran's|3
Caherline|0
Massive win for Mungret, four wins from four and they are assured of a place in the knockouts, and probably straight to the semis. Will they finally push on and get promoted? Hard to know, they were emphatic in their win over Cappamore, who are their closest challengers in this group and it's hard to see who in the other group, bar Glenroe (who they probably won't meet until the final) can beat them. Cappamore are also assured of a knockout spot after a good win over Knockaderry, Tom Condon was listed on the bench, if he was injured, he'd be a huge loss. I'd expect Cappamore to beat Feenagh/Kilmeedy the next day and for Mungret to beat Kieran's, so if Knockaderry beat Caherline, they should get third place. Caherline are definitely in the relegation play-off after a terrible season.
Group 2
Feohanagh/Castlemahon 0-17 Hospital/Herbertstown 1-12
Glenroe 2-14 Claughaun 0-10
Kildimo/Pallaskenry 2-19 Newcastlewest 1-09
|Pts
Glenroe|6
Feohanagh/Castlemahon|6
Kildimo/Pallaskenry|4
Newcastlewest|2
Hospital/Herbertstown|2
Claughaun|0
The only teams who have played four games in this group are the bottom two. Hospital/Herbertstown have been poor since relegation, with another loss today to promoted Feohanagh/Castlemahon, who have been impressive and are still unbeaten. Glenroe are the best team in the group though, and I'd expect them to beat Feohanagh/Castlemahon in the final game. But my own club Kildimo/Pallas had a great win over NCW today- some lovely hurling at times. Bit of a rejigging in the team with Barry O'Connell in attack getting 1-10, 1-3 from play with two county minors Kyle Hayes & Darren O'Connell also linking up really well together. Martin Nunan, another good young player, also got 1-3 from play but NCW were poor; I really expected them to be a lot better. It gives us a great chance of making the knockout stages which would be a huge boost. We play F/C in a couple of weeks and if we could beat them, we might even fancy our chances of a semi.
Claughaun vs Caherline will be the relegation play-off, both have been very poor this year. You'd expect Glenroe & Mungret to go up, but you would have said that last year too.0 -
Some results and tables coverage Fireball.
Well done. Excellent stuff.!0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Bottom line is yes like I said yes if beat Galway huge under dogs suit ye but I just view no team left beat Wexford that means Galway or limerick as they have experience
Limerick will win all ireland this gradein the next two years but huge ask expect them beat experience Wexford if they meet
Course I could be wrong and I'd love to be but I think if limerick play Wexford Wexford course going be huge favourite
Ye have huge game v Galway limerick bogeys team ye can win but key is the start
Galway are tricky in hard know much about them
Whatever happens in all ireland series it's been good ist year for the team
Agreed, I'd fear Galway more than Wexford.0 -
This time yesterday I was fearful for Adare but the lads put in a very good shift in the second half and were fully deserving of their victory against a talented Doon side, but one that has probably underperformed this year unfortunately. You'd forgive them defeat to Na Piarsaigh - a game they were competitive in - but the neutral in me would be disappointed that they lost to an Adare team for whom the days of competing for county titles are well and truly over for the time being.
They should still finish in third place, barring a major upset they'll defeat Croom with a bit to spare next weekend to set up what effectively becomes a play-off for third place in the last round with Ballybrown. Again, you'd have to expect Doon to prevail.
That should mean top 3 as follows; 1-Na Piarsaigh, 2-Adare, 3-Doon
This has implications for the Patrickswell v Kilmallock game in the last round of the other group. Both teams have won four out of four, but looking at how group 2 will most likely to finish, defeat in this game means Doon will be quarter final opposition with Na Piarsaigh semi final opposition. A very tricky route to the final indeed.
The winner has the far more appealing prospect of the winners of a quarter final between Adare and the third placed team in group 1 (hard to call, one from Ahane, SLiberties and MBoher).
In terms of relegation, Croom are gone unless they get at least one point from their games against Doon and Na Piarsaigh, a tall order indeed.
Other group, not so straight forward, South Liberties are safe.
Ahane are down if they lose to South Liberties and Effin defeat Murroe-Boher.
Murroe-Boher are down if they lose to Effin and Ahane defeat South Liberties.
And Effin can only avoid relegation by defeating Murroe-Boher.0 -
I'll start at the end! There's still nothing to lose by trying English at all full back, if Richie is better then fine but if he's not good enough he loses out, same applies to every position on the field surely.
On Dowling I agree that his performance against Tipp was excellent but that doesn't exempt him from criticism. Fair enough if you know him but I can only go on what I see and he and Richie do not look in peak condition so the question still stands could they do more or be better. If I'm wrong then grand but if not I think it reflects poorly on management really.
On JJ maybe I'm blinded by THAT hook so I'll concede on that point. Actually I'd give the nod to Peter Kelly, I think he's top class full back but Richie was excellent in 2013 & 2014.
Fair point. Of course if English is better he should get in, you're right. But realistically? Probably not yet. Expect to see him come in corner back.
Dowling is in excellent shape this year. He was last summer too but this year he didn't have the weight during winter that he had to shed during the league. The guy is in top shape and I don't think his commitment can be questioned. He was a real leader in a beaten team v Tipp and (not directed at you) but criticism of him irks me when the guy performed well and many around him flatter to deceive.0 -
As for all the talk about Richie Mc & Richie English. I'd agree with glas for the most part- I think that last year Richie was the best full-back in the country. If you look at each game individually, I think he had a better year than JJ, who did have a fine season and had that unbelievable hook. But Richie held Callanan better, cleaned out both Conor McDonald and Mark Kelly and was pretty dominant against Cork too. JJ had a bit more trouble with Callanan; Dowling scored 2 points off him, and fouled him for two more in a match where scores were at a premium. Tbh I can't remember how he did in the Galway games, but I remember at the time thinking Richie did better but I wasn't surprised JJ got it and you wouldn't begrudge him it in his last year as he won another All-Ireland.
This year, Richie had a poor league game against Dublin and was cleaned out against Tipp. He was very good against Dublin in the quarter-final, I would say that the goal was Hickey's fault rather than his, but there was a serious mixup which killed us. He was grand against Clare even if he did concede a few frees, SOD is a tough man to handle. He did seem a bit heavier than last year and had definitely lost a yard of pace, which was never a strong point of his in the first team.
Richie English is not a better full-back than Richie Mc but he should have been on the panel this year at the same time if he is seen as the long-term replacement. I know a lot of people have question marks over Richie but at minor level, he was good, and I was impressed with him at U-21 level over the past two years too. He wasn't full-back for the intermediates and he plays wing-back for Doon for the most part, but I think he's good enough to be on the panel. Wing-back is his best position by all accounts, but I'd say he could do a fine job in the corner too and will hopefully grow into the full-back role over the next few years.
If we learned one thing from the Dublin game it's that Seanie O'Brien isn't a corner-back and even as a man-marker drifting out the field, it's not his forte. He's a good hurler and revels in space where he can use his speed. Alan Dempsey would have been much better suited to the role he played against Dublin. I'm a huge fan of Dempsey, and hope he's involved next year too.
Oh, and Dowling. Dowling is a player who looks like he's carrying too much weight. But then again, so do the likes of Joe Canning & Iarla Tannian. Whether he could lose a bit of weight or not, I don't know but in terms of actual on-field fitness, I couldn't fault him. He was out in front of his man every time against Tipp when the rest of the team fell to pieces. He's rarely beaten for pace... he's not a speed merchant but he makes clever runs and wins the ball. I've never seen him flagging as a result of a lack of fitness. Is he as mobile as Paul Browne or Tony Kelly or someone? No, but then, not many are. Even if he lost weight or whatever, he wouldn't turn into that kind of player, it's not his game.0 -
Fireball07 wrote: »As for all the talk about Richie Mc & Richie English. I'd agree with glas for the most part- I think that last year Richie was the best full-back in the country. If you look at each game individually, I think he had a better year than JJ, who did have a fine season and had that unbelievable hook. But Richie held Callanan better, cleaned out both Conor McDonald and Mark Kelly and was pretty dominant against Cork too. JJ had a bit more trouble with Callanan; Dowling scored 2 points off him, and fouled him for two more in a match where scores were at a premium. Tbh I can't remember how he did in the Galway games, but I remember at the time thinking Richie did better but I wasn't surprised JJ got it and you wouldn't begrudge him it in his last year as he won another All-Ireland.
This year, Richie had a poor league game against Dublin and was cleaned out against Tipp. He was very good against Dublin in the quarter-final, I would say that the goal was Hickey's fault rather than his, but there was a serious mixup which killed us. He was grand against Clare even if he did concede a few frees, SOD is a tough man to handle. He did seem a bit heavier than last year and had definitely lost a yard of pace, which was never a strong point of his in the first team.
Richie English is not a better full-back than Richie Mc but he should have been on the panel this year at the same time if he is seen as the long-term replacement. I know a lot of people have question marks over Richie but at minor level, he was good, and I was impressed with him at U-21 level over the past two years too. He wasn't full-back for the intermediates and he plays wing-back for Doon for the most part, but I think he's good enough to be on the panel. Wing-back is his best position by all accounts, but I'd say he could do a fine job in the corner too and will hopefully grow into the full-back role over the next few years.
If we learned one thing from the Dublin game it's that Seanie O'Brien isn't a corner-back and even as a man-marker drifting out the field, it's not his forte. He's a good hurler and revels in space where he can use his speed. Alan Dempsey would have been much better suited to the role he played against Dublin. I'm a huge fan of Dempsey, and hope he's involved next year too.
Oh, and Dowling. Dowling is a player who looks like he's carrying too much weight. But then again, so do the likes of Joe Canning & Iarla Tannian. Whether he could lose a bit of weight or not, I don't know but in terms of actual on-field fitness, I couldn't fault him. He was out in front of his man every time against Tipp when the rest of the team fell to pieces. He's rarely beaten for pace... he's not a speed merchant but he makes clever runs and wins the ball. I've never seen him flagging as a result of a lack of fitness. Is he as mobile as Paul Browne or Tony Kelly or someone? No, but then, not many are. Even if he lost weight or whatever, he wouldn't turn into that kind of player, it's not his game.
You haven't a clue Aristole about hurling at all. You've obviously never seen Richie English hurl more than a handful of occasions and if you think Richie Mc was better than JJ last year your an ape. Every right minded man that knew anything about hurling knew Richie was getting away with it for a long time. Against Tipp last year Callanaan cleaned him and he missed a pile of chances. Richie followed loads too. Limerick fans ignore this because we won. Also your other stupid point about callanan v Kilkenny is nonsense. If Limerick met that Tip team in September we'd have been beaten out the gate by 40 points. They were completely different then to the months earlier we played them. Richie done ok against Cork. To say he cleaned Conor Mc is stupid. He contested two balls with him over the 70 minutes. Richie is a good player but will never lace Jjs boots. Seanie O Brien has settled well into the corner back role. Again you try make judgement on league games but earlier in the year you were saying don't judge Limerick on the league they'll get it right come championship then why are you judging Seanie? Dempsey is most certainly not a man marking corner back. Have you ever seen him play for his club? I'd guess you haven't and I'd also guess you've never played hurling before going by your posts. Dowling beats his man out to the ball? Yes because his man knows there is a better chance of an artic truck turning him than Shane. So why on earth would a fullback take a chance? He is consistently beaten for pace.0 -
West_Forward wrote: »You haven't a clue Aristole about hurling at all. You've obviously never seen Richie English hurl more than a handful of occasions and if you think Richie Mc was better than JJ last year your an ape. Every right minded man that knew anything about hurling knew Richie was getting away with it for a long time. Against Tipp last year Callanaan cleaned him and he missed a pile of chances. Richie followed loads too. Limerick fans ignore this because we won. Also your other stupid point about callanan v Kilkenny is nonsense. If Limerick met that Tip team in September we'd have been beaten out the gate by 40 points. They were completely different then to the months earlier we played them. Richie done ok against Cork. To say he cleaned Conor Mc is stupid. He contested two balls with him over the 70 minutes. Richie is a good player but will never lace Jjs boots. Seanie O Brien has settled well into the corner back role. Again you try make judgement on league games but earlier in the year you were saying don't judge Limerick on the league they'll get it right come championship then why are you judging Seanie? Dempsey is most certainly not a man marking corner back. Have you ever seen him play for his club? I'd guess you haven't and I'd also guess you've never played hurling before going by your posts. Dowling beats his man out to the ball? Yes because his man knows there is a better chance of an artic truck turning him than Shane. So why on earth would a fullback take a chance? He is consistently beaten for pace.
Tipp were better in September? Well duh. Teams that context finals are generally better by September, in hurling and football.
Dempsey plays midfield for his club. Similar to many intercounty corner backs. What's your point?
Backs gift Dowling opposition do they? Care to give an example of this? Is it because he can't score or because he's so easy to block down? Consistently beaten for pace -like when? Give some examples, it sounds like you have many.0 -
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West_Forward wrote: »You haven't a clue Aristole about hurling at all. You've obviously never seen Richie English hurl more than a handful of occasions and if you think Richie Mc was better than JJ last year your an ape. Every right minded man that knew anything about hurling knew Richie was getting away with it for a long time. Against Tipp last year Callanaan cleaned him and he missed a pile of chances. Richie followed loads too. Limerick fans ignore this because we won. Also your other stupid point about callanan v Kilkenny is nonsense. If Limerick met that Tip team in September we'd have been beaten out the gate by 40 points. They were completely different then to the months earlier we played them. Richie done ok against Cork. To say he cleaned Conor Mc is stupid. He contested two balls with him over the 70 minutes. Richie is a good player but will never lace Jjs boots. Seanie O Brien has settled well into the corner back role. Again you try make judgement on league games but earlier in the year you were saying don't judge Limerick on the league they'll get it right come championship then why are you judging Seanie? Dempsey is most certainly not a man marking corner back. Have you ever seen him play for his club? I'd guess you haven't and I'd also guess you've never played hurling before going by your posts. Dowling beats his man out to the ball? Yes because his man knows there is a better chance of an artic truck turning him than Shane. So why on earth would a fullback take a chance? He is consistently beaten for pace.
Welcome to boards.ie bud. Hope your grand total of 5 previous posts were as informative and constructive as your 6th...:rolleyes:
Doubt you'll be around here very long anyway, but you're still watching hurling in 50 years time you won't have the knowledge that Fireball has.;)0 -
West_Forward wrote: »You haven't a clue Aristole about hurling at all. You've obviously never seen Richie English hurl more than a handful of occasions and if you think Richie Mc was better than JJ last year your an ape. Every right minded man that knew anything about hurling knew Richie was getting away with it for a long time. Against Tipp last year Callanaan cleaned him and he missed a pile of chances. Richie followed loads too. Limerick fans ignore this because we won. Also your other stupid point about callanan v Kilkenny is nonsense. If Limerick met that Tip team in September we'd have been beaten out the gate by 40 points. They were completely different then to the months earlier we played them. Richie done ok against Cork. To say he cleaned Conor Mc is stupid. He contested two balls with him over the 70 minutes. Richie is a good player but will never lace Jjs boots. Seanie O Brien has settled well into the corner back role. Again you try make judgement on league games but earlier in the year you were saying don't judge Limerick on the league they'll get it right come championship then why are you judging Seanie? Dempsey is most certainly not a man marking corner back. Have you ever seen him play for his club? I'd guess you haven't and I'd also guess you've never played hurling before going by your posts. Dowling beats his man out to the ball? Yes because his man knows there is a better chance of an artic truck turning him than Shane. So why on earth would a fullback take a chance? He is consistently beaten for pace.
I've seen Richie English play a good few times at this stage, I can only judge him off what I've seen and he's coped admirably with anything thrown at him on the intercounty stage so far.
As for Richie Mc, Callanan did get out in front of him a good few times and had chances to score, for sure. But Richie got back, made hooks, blocks, threw his body in the line to prevent scores and the grew into the game more and more as it went on. Maybe Tipp would have hammered us in September, maybe not, we'll never know... they clearly stepped up but our intensity levels were much higher against Kilkenny than they had been in the Munster Championship too, and on a completely different level to anything we showed this year. Any ball that Richie contested with Conor Mc, he won, anything that went into his area of the pitch, he won. Wexford were awful and again, he can only play what's in front of him. McDonald wasn't in the game at all.
I'm judging Seanie on his performance against Dublin, where he was given a man-marking role and didn't have a good game. That's all. The league isn't everything but obviously you can get some barometer of performances from it, if someone has a great game or a horror show, you're likely to take note. Seanie had a decent enough league though.
And as for Dowling, it's not particularly good defending if the backs are "letting" him out in front of the ball. He was one of the highest scorers from play in the entire country last year, our best forward by a mile against Tipp where he scored and created chances. Over a short distance, he does actually have a nice bit of pace. He's not Mulcahy-quick or anything but he's not slow. When he gets the ball into his hand, he's very hard to dispossess, generally makes something happen; if a full-back knew he could beat him tot he ball, it'd be mad not to.0 -
Fireball07 wrote: »I've seen Richie English play a good few times at this stage, I can only judge him off what I've seen and he's coped admirably with anything thrown at him on the intercounty stage so far.
As for Richie Mc, Callanan did get out in front of him a good few times and had chances to score, for sure. But Richie got back, made hooks, blocks, threw his body in the line to prevent scores and the grew into the game more and more as it went on. Maybe Tipp would have hammered us in September, maybe not, we'll never know... they clearly stepped up but our intensity levels were much higher against Kilkenny than they had been in the Munster Championship too, and on a completely different level to anything we showed this year. Any ball that Richie contested with Conor Mc, he won, anything that went into his area of the pitch, he won. Wexford were awful and again, he can only play what's in front of him. McDonald wasn't in the game at all.
I'm judging Seanie on his performance against Dublin, where he was given a man-marking role and didn't have a good game. That's all. The league isn't everything but obviously you can get some barometer of performances from it, if someone has a great game or a horror show, you're likely to take note. Seanie had a decent enough league though.
And as for Dowling, it's not particularly good defending if the backs are "letting" him out in front of the ball. He was one of the highest scorers from play in the entire country last year, our best forward by a mile against Tipp where he scored and created chances. Over a short distance, he does actually have a nice bit of pace. He's not Mulcahy-quick or anything but he's not slow. When he gets the ball into his hand, he's very hard to dispossess, generally makes something happen; if a full-back knew he could beat him tot he ball, it'd be mad not to.
Dowling is never going to cut back he is as strong as an ox and if you compete 50/50 with he will invariably win but if you sheppard he causes way less trouble. Letting him and dealing on the turn is much easier as he usually falls over or can't adjust his feet. All backs do like Richie English v SHane Donnell last. Again you've haven't a clue.
Dempsey is a sweeper/midfielder end of and a bloody good one at that but a tight marking corner back? No.
If you judge Seanie v Dublin in the league than why didn't you judge the rest of the Limerick team then? That was probably Seanies second game ever at corner back. Absolutely ridiculous to judge him on that.
If you have seen Richie English play then you'd no he is a full back and not a wing back. You clearly haven't.0 -
Can we just get rid of Tyrone0
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TJ not necessarily safe, after liaising with the players and compiling a report I believe some (at board level) have concluded TJ is no longer viable, others feel he's only viable if a backroom team is picked for him, and others willing to back him (almost) unconditionally.
I only know so much (I couldn't claim anything as fact, just 'hear say' from a good source) but I'd be a bit disappointed in the players if they suddenly decided to make a catalogue of issues with TJ suddenly be known when all year long they never aired any grievances, if an issue arises then why wait until it all goes wrong and the championship is over to speak up?
If it's part of their report that they had been making issues known all along and that nothing was done, then by all means I've no issue with them throwing TJ under the bus, but from what I could see and was told it was a happy camp all year long, and they (players and management together) weren't overly worried about about shaky form as the plan was always to peak from July onwards.0 -
zombieHanalei wrote: »TJ not necessarily safe, after liaising with the players and compiling a report I believe some (at board level) have concluded TJ is no longer viable, others feel he's only viable if a backroom team is picked for him, and others willing to back him (almost) unconditionally.
I only know so much (I couldn't claim anything as fact, just 'hear say' from a good source) but I'd be a bit disappointed in the players if they suddenly decided to make a catalogue of issues with TJ suddenly be known when all year long they never aired any grievances, if an issue arises then why wait until it all goes wrong and the championship is over to speak up?
If it's part of their report that they had been making issues known all along and that nothing was done, then by all means I've no issue with them throwing TJ under the bus, but from what I could see and was told it was a happy camp all year long, and they (players and management together) weren't overly worried about about shaky form as the plan was always to peak from July onwards.
Interesting that there's a split in the board on the support for TJ.
The impression I've formed from basically bits of hearsay is that: DOG left, TJ stepped in and gave the players a bit more input and this lifted the camp greatly. The players had disliked DOGs approach and in the previous year's Allen had taken the approach to empower the players as much as possible. Roll forward a year the impression from some was that things had gone too far in the other direction and management had not retained enough control of things and things were too player led. Don't know if any of this is accurate to be fair.
The position now, in my view, is that if TJ is to stay I think he has to be quite clear in identifying what went wrong and the steps he proposes to take to fix it. Otherwise why would you give him another go at it? He's probably under a bit more threat with the success of the 21s. Kiely has good experience from before and if they beat galway the case for giving him the job will be strengthened again. If they win the AI then the job is surely his if he wants it. There's also Daly and Kinnerk floating about who could turn the head of the board if they wanted to be involved in some capacity.
Whatever decision is made is an important one. There'll be quite a freshening up of the panel next year with probably the biggest influx of new players to the panel since about 2010-2011, and you'd also expect 3-4 new players into the limerick starting team. You'd like to think that whoever is manager next year can show they have the ability to build a team given there'll be expected to be the biggest change in personnel to the starting team that there's been in a few years.0 -
The uncertainty around the senior hurling camp is very disheartening for someone like me who wants our hurlers to really succeed. It's not fair on the current senior management setup who presumably want to put plans in place for next year safe in the knowledge that they are being backed. If there is (credible) talk of them all not being involved then it's not right that anyone who might be interested (whoever he/they might be) is being denied the chance to look closely at the u-21s for example and identify areas of strength that can be utilised. For what it's worth I think that TJ should stay as manager but the people around him could do with being freshened up or at least looking at their own roles and seeing how they can improve on this years efforts.0
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it's not right that anyone who might be interested (whoever he/they might be) is being denied the chance to look closely at the u-21s for example and identify areas of strength that can be utilised.
Anyone with any aspirations of being involved with the team should be doing this anyway.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »Anyone with any aspirations of being involved with the team should be doing this anyway.
I would presume they are but I was thinking in a more formal manner. Would it be easier for someone to look in at training, talk to players in a constructive manner, outline plans for them knowing that they are in place for next year and are doing so for the interests of limerick hurling rather than being seen as a ploy to usurp the current incumbents.0 -
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Big win for Doon over Croom tonight keeps them in contention to make the quarter finals, they need to beat Ballybrown to get there. Croom now must defeat Na Piarsaigh (combined with a Bruff defeat) to avoid relegation, you'd have to say they're as good as gone as a Croom win over Na Piarsaigh would be a monumental upset.0
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