*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

Mehapoy

Very poor today, huge failure in the only test of the league, no game plan at all, forward play was non existent and two backs could have been sent off for persistent fouling.
Its almost not fair to pick out individuals as I don't think anyone could play well in the rabble we were.
Yet another year in 1b, wouldn't blame the players for getting seriously disheartened at it all,
There will be changes for next day but without a proper game plan it'll be the same result, can't see us raising any gallop in the championship after this either, it'll be all change at the end of the year in management, time for someone else who can coach/develop players, assuming Daly or kiely will be the candidates, certainly tj is dead man walking anyway.

LMK

Limerick need to be more than the sum of its parts to have a real chance.... that's not happening obviously, our discipline has declined since 2013/2014 the grappling in defense that goes on before the ball arrives is far too chaotic, further up the field the energy expended when not in possession is commendable but most of the time it doesn't result in recovering the ball. The disciplined calm cohesive teamwork we saw in 2014 looks a long way away now.
It look today like we were short leaders throughout the team (Paul Browne excluded).
Agree that the management are under the spotlight, pro's are they've given the U21's a good run ... but most people would agree on that course of action anyway, on the debit side they continue to trust in some players that flatter to deceive in nearly every game that's tight. I hope we have a better day against the Dubs.

commonsense.

HanaleiJ5N wrote:

The official rule is 4 steps, generally a bit of leeway of a few steps is given in certain circumstances. But to be allowed take 20 or 21 steps, with the ball in hand, right across the face of the goal, right in front of the umpires, and the referee no more than 30 yards behind? That is utterly unacceptable.

Ref deemed that Conlon was being fouled and was playing advantage.
But I agree with you, for my money it was a free out. In my opinion ref rode ye all say long. Sending off was a joke. Minimal accidental contact and Galvin takes a dive soccer style.
After a brutal start ye were right back in it when reduced to 14. That completely changed the game and ended it as a contest.

francozola

Dismal performance all in all. A terrible situation to be in again.
Think we would look a lot better with Gavin at 6,Byrnes at 5 and Seanie O Brien at 7. Hickey won enough ball with his hand today but lost it all with his legs so you can stick him in at 2 again. Ritchie English either needs to be played full back or dropped but I'd rather the physical presence of Barry O Connell in there who was pretty solid for the Intermediates last year. Hopefully Mick Casey slots in at 4.
After that is anyone's guess but we need to get defence sorted first and build from there. Na Piarsaigh boys coming back won't make much of a difference as Dowling is only guaranteed starter and I would think twice about starting him again.

HanaleiJ5N

Player|Age*|Club|Starts + Subs|Scored (free's/65's)
Breen, A|24|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Browne, P|27|Bruff|5|0-17
Byrnes, D|22|Patrickswell|5|0-12 (0-11)
Casey, M|?|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Condon, T|29|Knockaderry|5|0-0
Dempsey, D|21|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Dowling, S|23|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Downes, K|25|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
English, R|21|Doon|4|0-0
Finn, S|20|Bruff|0|0-0
Fitzgibbon, J|24|Adare|3+1|1-15 (0-9)
Hannon, D|24|Adare|4|3-23 (0-17)
Hegarty, G|22|Saint Patricks|0+1|0-0
Hennessy, B|27|Kilmallock|1|0-0
Hickey, S|29|Murroe-Boher|5|0-1
King, C|29|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Lynch, C|20|Patrickswell|4|0-2
Lynch, R|20|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
McCarthy, D|?|Glenroe|0|0-0
McCarthy, R|29|Blackrock|5|0-0
McNamara, W|30|Adare|0+2|0-0
Morrissey, D|23|Ahane|4|0-0
Morrissey, T|20|Ahane|4+1|0-9
Mulcahy, G|26|Kilmallock|3+1|2-4
Nash, B|20|South Liberties|5|2-8
O'Brien, K|?|Patrickswll|1|0-2
O'Brien, P|27|Kilmallock|1+1|0-0
O'Brien, S|25|Patrickswell|1|0-0
O'Connell, B|22|Kildimo-Pallaskenry|1+1|0-0
O'Donoghue, W|?|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
O'Donovan, D|21|Doon|1+2|0-2
O'Mahony, G|29|Kilmallock|5|0-5
Quaid, N|27|Effin|4|0-0
Rediy, D|23|Dromin-Athlacca|3|0-5
Ryan, J|29|Garryspillane|0+1|0-1
Ryan, M|?|Murroe-Boher|0+2|1-0
Ryan, P|21|Doon|1+2|1-0
Tobin, S|27|Murroe-Boher|0+3|0-2

*(Age turned in 2016, i.e. Declan Hannon is presently 23 but turns 24 in November.)


This is the panel of 38 as it stands, it's due to be cut to 32 in the next two weeks.

I'm not 100% certain on the ages of a handful of players, anyone know the years of birth of the 5 players whose ages are marked with a question mark?

shockframe

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Player|Age*|Club|Starts + Subs|Scored (free's/65's)
Breen, A|24|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Browne, P|27|Bruff|5|0-17
Byrnes, D|22|Patrickswell|5|0-12 (0-11)
Casey, M|?|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Condon, T|29|Knockaderry|5|0-0
Dempsey, D|21|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Dowling, S|23|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Downes, K|25|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
English, R|21|Doon|4|0-0
Finn, S|20|Bruff|0|0-0
Fitzgibbon, J|24|Adare|3+1|1-15 (0-9)
Hannon, D|24|Adare|4|3-23 (0-17)
Hegarty, G|22|Saint Patricks|0+1|0-0
Hennessy, B|27|Kilmallock|1|0-0
Hickey, S|29|Murroe-Boher|5|0-1
King, C|29|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
Lynch, C|20|Patrickswell|4|0-2
Lynch, R|20|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
McCarthy, D|?|Glenroe|0|0-0
McCarthy, R|29|Blackrock|5|0-0
McNamara, W|30|Adare|0+2|0-0
Morrissey, D|23|Ahane|4|0-0
Morrissey, T|20|Ahane|4+1|0-9
Mulcahy, G|26|Kilmallock|3+1|2-4
Nash, B|20|South Liberties|5|2-8
O'Brien, K|?|Patrickswll|1|0-2
O'Brien, P|27|Kilmallock|1+1|0-0
O'Brien, S|25|Patrickswell|1|0-0
O'Connell, B|22|Kildimo-Pallaskenry|1+1|0-0
O'Donoghue, W|?|Na Piarsaigh|0|0-0
O'Donovan, D|21|Doon|1+2|0-2
O'Mahony, G|29|Kilmallock|5|0-5
Quaid, N|27|Effin|4|0-0
Rediy, D|23|Dromin-Athlacca|3|0-5
Ryan, J|29|Garryspillane|0+1|0-1
Ryan, M|?|Murroe-Boher|0+2|1-0
Ryan, P|21|Doon|1+2|1-0
Tobin, S|27|Murroe-Boher|0+3|0-2

*(Age turned in 2016, i.e. Declan Hannon is presently 23 but turns 24 in November.)


This is the panel of 38 as it stands, it's due to be cut to 32 in the next two weeks.

I'm not 100% certain on the ages of a handful of players, anyone know the years of birth of the 5 players whose ages are marked with a question mark?

Mccarthy and O'Donoghe are both 22 this year.

HanaleiJ5N

shockframe wrote: »

Mccarthy and O'Donoghe are both 22 this year.

Cheers. I could have sworn McCarthy was still underage for under 21 this year but I guess not

shockframe

This was on the cards the minute Donal O’Grady stepped down in April 2014. Since TJ Ryan has been sole manager in the last 2 seasons Limerick seniors have declined rapidly.The signs were apparent that we were lacking on the line before last year when virtually the same panel was kept.

We got a very fair return on the 2005 minors from the senior campaigns from 2011 to mid-2014 but the jig was up for nearly all of them last season and none of them did well today.

Talk of steps for the goal and the sending off is neither here nor there AFAIC. Clare targeted the full back line and it paid off in the first play and we were lucky another Limerick player wasn’t red carded before the finish. Clare worked a lot harder than us, played as more of a team and their support play was far better. Clare are not the finished package but they have lads on the line who seem to know whats going on. A bit light but they won’t be easily beaten this year I reckon.

There really is nothing going for Limerick at all right now and unless Joe O’Connor can work his magic fitness wise on them it’s going to be a short summer.

This management is on borrowed time but what follows will have to be decisive. I change my mind on this quite a bit I’ll admit but I’d nearly ask Ciaran Carey to take over. He has his baggage but his stock has risen with Patrickswell and now a fair stint with Kerry. Cian’s presence is a factor but given that Lynch was limited in Killarney Carey must have done his homework on Limerick. I don’t think we would be in any way disgraced if Carey took over. He could be the closest thing we have to a Loughnane type figure in the county.

HanaleiJ5N

There are individuals on the county board who will make it their business to ensure Carey never gets the Limerick SHC manager job, which is a shame because if he continues to prove himself in the Kerry role he should be a strong candidate.

The political chicanery that goes on behind closed doors would make your head spin, I've made my views known on our chairman many times but I've been told things about him I wish I could repeat here, his treatment of Donal O'Grady in 2014 was scandalous, and it was far more calculated than most would think....

The selection of managers has basically been a big power play behind the scenes, for a number of years now it hasn't been about getting the best man for the job in, not just for the senior role, men in dimly lit smoke filled rooms making deals, I want this guy in, support me and I'll make sure such and such happens, remember how I supported you that time? We have to make sure this guy doesn't get his choice in.

TJ basically survived last year so a number of individuals could save face, I don't really blame TJ, unfortunately I feel he's a bit in over his head, but he was offered the role and there aren't many who would turn it down, it's understandable why he wants it and it's understandable why he doesn't want to give it up. A bit like when Steve Staunton got the Ireland job, he clearly wasn't the right man for the job but it wasn't his fault he was offered the job, the FAI screwed up. And our county board screwed up by picking TJ. He has his strengths but unfortunately he has too many limitations, I like him as a man and I do believe he is giving it his all and doing his best but unfortunately that isn't always enough.

There is a reason Paul Kinnerk refused point blank to join the backroom team, he has no personal issue with TJ (that I'm aware of), but there were elements of the set up that put him off. Paul Kinnerk could well be a part of a Limerick backroom team in the future, but only in the right conditions.

There are some vested interests whose next grand plan is to move Anthony Daly into the managers job next time the vacancy arises, I like Daly a lot but I'm not so sure he'd be the right man for us, plus I hear he'd be reluctant to manage another Munster county, he wouldn't like to be on the other side of one of Clare's big rivalries (one of the reasons he took the Dublin job was because they weren't an age old bitter rival of Clare like ourselves or Tipp). But there are a handful of people who will do everything in their power to twist his arm and push it through.

999/112

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Ah ffs, I've been rewatching Conlon's "goal".

The only thing I'm uncertain on is whether he took 20 or 21 steps. Shocking decision.

The official rule is 4 steps, generally a bit of leeway of a few steps is given in certain circumstances. But to be allowed take 20 or 21 steps, with the ball in hand, right across the face of the goal, right in front of the umpires, and the referee no more than 30 yards behind? That is utterly unacceptable.


All things being equal, incompetent refereeing in that and a few other instances aside, I still think Clare just about shaded it overall, and that the final scoreline flattered us a little. But, we have every right to be outraged at the allowing of that "goal".

At what point in the 20/21 steps was Conlon fouled? ........"right across the face of goal"

HanaleiJ5N

999/112 wrote: »

At what point in the 20/21 steps was Conlon fouled? ........"right across the face of goal"

If he was fouled, the rule does not state "a fouled player shall be in turn be allowed to foul", and if advantage was being played, playing advantage does not amount to letting a player take 5 times more steps with the ball in hand than allowed.

If the referee reckons Conlon is fouled, he calls it back for the original free or penalty once Conlon gains no fair advantage. Allowing him to overcarry to that extent is not a fair advantage. There's no such thing as two wrongs make a right, the referee should apply the rules, not invent new ones as he goes along.

If you don't think Conlon's trajectory was across the face of goal then you're blind or you haven't seen it or you're just on the wind-up. I've said more than once Clare deserved the win regardless, but anyone who thinks that "goal" should have stood can only be biased and blinkered at best.

If that decision had happened in the other direction we would have gotten another one of those trademark interviews. "Things happened out there today, you all saw it for yourself, I'M NOT GONNA BE DRAWN ON IT"

You can't on the one hand whine when things go against you and on the other hand turn a blind eye when it goes the other direction, that's soccer logic, not GAA.

paddy no 11

Shame to have a great win from Na P spoiled by that muck yesterday. It was so bad, the same inept, devoid performances that we got when TJ had the u-21's, against offaly in the league against tipp and dublin last year. We'll lose to bad teams this year again. And my worry that he would regress the u-21's looks a possibility.

Kiely for the job nobody else for me

Real test for TJ now, he's already finished but is he good enough to at least pick Alan Dempsey?

HanaleiJ5N

I really wish we had Dowling and Downes as emergency subs, our first sub we brought on as forward was David Reidy. I know it was very soon after the club final but there's two weeks off now.

In all honesty I still feel Clare would have won anyway, even if we had Dowling and Downes on the bench, even if we had 15 men, and even if that goal wasn't given. They were better than us but in saying that they never properly killed us off, and they hit a lot of wides, and because of that, I still feel we had a chance to steal what on the balance of play would have been an undeserved win. A better team could well have punished Clare yesterday, we weren't good enough.

And Clare didn't win just because we were well short of our potential, they can say the same thing about themselves, at their very best they would have beaten what we served up yesterday by 15+ points.

Mehapoy

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

I really wish we had Dowling and Downes as emergency subs, our first sub we brought on as forward was David Reidy. I know it was very soon after the club final but there's two weeks off now.

In all honesty I still feel Clare would have won anyway, even if we had Dowling and Downes on the bench, even if we had 15 men, and even if that goal wasn't given. They were better than us but in saying that they never properly killed us off, and they hit a lot of wides, and because of that, I still feel we had a chance to steal what on the balance of play would have been an undeserved win. A better team could well have punished Clare yesterday, we weren't good enough.

And Clare didn't win just because we were well short of our potential, they can say the same thing about themselves, at their very best they would have beaten what we served up yesterday by 15+ points.

Most disappointing is the fact that we never created a proper goal chance, save for the odd individual run from a player who got easily bottled up as nobody else seemed to be on his wavelength...I got a hint of a little niggle between the nap lads and TJ from Dowling's interview, I would have thought an inter county manager should be in contact with the players after an ai win like that, even to say congratulations.
For me I think we need to add Mikey Casey, Dowling and Dave Dempsey and possibly Downes next day and have Alan Dempsey and Ronan Lynch on the bench ready to come on.

HanaleiJ5N

Lost the coin toss, probable trip to Parnell Park in two weekends time. Highly unlikely it will be Croke Park.

Date/time/venue confirmed later by the CCCCCCCCCCCCC.

flutered

limerick need to forget about the championship, they need to have entry to the top table a priority, nothing more nothing less

paddy no 11

You have to laugh when Donal O'Grady gets to say we're rubbish as gaeilge at Half time/full time on TG4 - He who laughs last laughs longest eh donal

slegs

The only positive for me is that it always seems that when we are at a low ebb like this that we do well in first round of championship

Straws and grasping I know....

Kristopherus

paddy no 11 wrote: »

You have to laugh when Donal O'Grady gets to say we're rubbish as gaeilge at Half time/full time on TG4 - He who laughs last laughs longest eh donal

But........ I fear it will be a long time till Limerick are laughing, judging by yesterday's performance.

paddy no 11

Kristopherus wrote: »

But........ I fear it will be a long time till Limerick are laughing, judging by yesterday's performance.

Not till 2017 anyway by the looks of it

francozola

Players either need to put up or shut up now. I'm very against players throwing the manager overboard but I think if these players want to win they need to think long and hard is the back room teak giving them enough to win?
The senior players need to show leadership now and must realise their careers are flying before them.

If they are happy with everything, they are just not good enough so.

Vanolder

francozola wrote: »

Players either need to put up or shut up now. I'm very against players throwing the manager overboard but I think if these players want to win they need to think long and hard is the back room teak giving them enough to win?
The senior players need to show leadership now and must realise their careers are flying before them.

If they are happy with everything, they are just not good enough so.

The players have gone backwards under current management - no vision, no game plan, no coaching, players look fat... Players played out of position, other players should not even be on the panel let alone the first team... that all stops with management. The players look sluggish, just like this time last year.... nothing learned or changed.. the players can't do it all on their own. TJ was a political appointment that has failed spectacularly and we will have to put up with another shambolic summer this year.

flutered

limerick hurling is rotten to the core, the mcmanus funding is the worst thing that happened, as every thing is laid on for it, they have no scraps to fight for, for some of the team it looks as if beer and burgers is the diet of choice, if players are not following a regime they should be in fair shape by now, if they are not in shape then they should either be warming the bench or away from the squad until they pass a fitness test, this gives a message to every one, they are getting the opposite message at the moment, so things can only get worse not better, tj should remember the times maheady hadf him running extra laps of the circut at the collage in an effort to get him match fit

paddy no 11

Just talking to a few people since sunday and there nothing short of disgusted.

Whatever about tactics and team selection but when fitness and discipline go out the window then its all over - if it was a popular vote TJ would be gone but even another shocking performance in two weeks could be the end of him

HanaleiJ5N

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Just talking to a few people since sunday and there nothing short of disgusted.

Whatever about tactics and team selection but when fitness and discipline go out the window then its all over - if it was a popular vote TJ would be gone but even another shocking performance in two weeks could be the end of him

We could get beaten by 30 points and it wouldn't be the end of him, another bad championship would do it for sure though. Certain individuals would have appointed TJ for 2011, and they pushed and pushed again for 2012, and pushed again to appoint him for 2014 (despite an unsuccessful spell in charge of the under 21's which, a role these certain individuals made sure TJ got). For 2014 they half got their way as they got their man installed as half of a joint management team. Before long these certain individuals conspired to push O'Grady out and hey presto; their man now has sole charge.

To their delight, 2014 goes reasonably well, so little to no opposition to retaining him. He has a horrible 2015, they keep him there by agreeing another compromise; get rid of his backroom team (but leave him keep his right hand man) and allow the disgruntled a heavy say in who the new backroom members will be.

If TJ gets us as far as the quarter finals in the championship that will be enough for these certain individuals (who are far too proud to entertain that their unbending faith in TJ is misplaced) to ensure that TJ gets the job for 2017 as well and they would probably get their way too.

The only way TJ goes is if we have a horrendous championship or the players revolt. Championship might be a short one. First game most likely Tipp at Thurles, can't see us winning that. Luck of the draw after that, could be a Galway or a Dublin, could be a Westmeath or a Kerry.

Barring an unlikely win over Tipp in Thurles, there's a worrying and hardly insignificant risk we could be in for a two game championship this year depending on the qualifier draw.

HanaleiJ5N

The sad thing is, I quite like TJ as a man, have met him on a few occasions, a gentleman. I've fond memories of him as a player too. And I wanted it to work out for him, but he just isn't cut out for this level, and that had been apparent for quite some time now.

paddy no 11

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

We could get beaten by 30 points and it wouldn't be the end of him, another bad championship would do it for sure though. Certain individuals would have appointed TJ for 2011, and they pushed and pushed again for 2012, and pushed again to appoint him for 2014 (despite an unsuccessful spell in charge of the under 21's which, a role these certain individuals made sure TJ got). For 2014 they half got their way as they got their man installed as half of a joint management team. Before long these certain individuals conspired to push O'Grady out and hey presto; their man now has sole charge.

To their delight, 2014 goes reasonably well, so little to no opposition to retaining him. He has a horrible 2015, they keep him there by agreeing another compromise; get rid of his backroom team (but leave him keep his right hand man) and allow the disgruntled a heavy say in who the new backroom members will be.

If TJ gets us as far as the quarter finals in the championship that will be enough for these certain individuals (who are far too proud to entertain that their unbending faith in TJ is misplaced) to ensure that TJ gets the job for 2017 as well and they would probably get their way too.

The only way TJ goes is if we have a horrendous championship or the players revolt. Championship might be a short one. First game most likely Tipp at Thurles, can't see us winning that. Luck of the draw after that, could be a Galway or a Dublin, could be a Westmeath or a Kerry.

Barring an unlikely win over Tipp in Thurles, there's a worrying and hardly insignificant risk we could be in for a two game championship this year depending on the qualifier draw.

Cheers, given that the players went for TJ over DO'G then quite a few of them are priced in to sticking with TJ. The revolution would have to come from the younger players and that's unlikely. But another serious hiding will get people seriously riled up, we all know the potential is there and 40+ years waiting is long enough............

The prospect of a summer of shoight has me down

LMK

It's not something that can't be confirmed but I feel that John Allen's methods resulted in this group of players getting the best out of themselves. I think that 2014 was a carryover from his time in charge and TJ managed that well enough, his priority now must be to calm the "panicky" vibe that we saw on Sunday if he can then I believe then we have some chance of producing our potential. The least we want is a series of honest disciplined performances to cheer.
I do think that with Dodges retirement, Wayne Mac dropped and having JimBob out has seriously depleted our on-field leadership at least those 3 never hid even if they weren't going well themselves.

francozola

Sean Tobin has left the panel.

Mehapoy

francozola wrote: »

Sean Tobin has left the panel.

Yes saw that this morning, in fairness to him he's always done well when he's got a chance, had bad luck with injury, if he didn't get a place on the bench last day even without the nap guys he's well down TJ's list, wouldn't be surprised to see others in a similar situation take a jump aswell, the year doesn't look like going anywhere already.