*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

paddy no 11

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

I would say the bench is even enough bar ye have allis,Dowling and downes but we have Coughlan and Moylan.

We are much better than the clare game bench wise.

In a game like this momentum is everything.That is why i cant belive Downes has not started.I still remain to be convinced by allen.Good managers always try and improve the team even if you win.


See Cody last week,Tj Reid a superb player called aside as not performing in the first half.

Allen has always been slow to make changes,was the same with Cork,once he gets stuck on certain players he always remains too loyal to them and for others once he has made he's mind up on them,very rarely he changes.

He should have went for the Juglar and started Downes and put Hannon out to Half forward on Kenny who is weak under the high ball.

As it is it suits Cork.I feel Egan may well mark Hannon and that swtich will happen during the game if not at the start.

Cronin will try and pull Mcnamara out of the centre with Harnedy and Kearney driving through the Centre.

I agree with you, think we've left the door open to be honest.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Honan is a good, good player. I felt Clare had the upper hand there but failed to use him properly v Cork.

and the wind played a huge part.Instead of fast ball that he got in the first half he got slow ball and their was always a second cork defender covering if mcdonnell was turned.

Mcdonnell is or never has been a full back.If we only had Riche Mac.!!!

Thinkstoomuch

paddy no 11 wrote: »

I agree with you, think we've left the door open to be honest.

as a Cork man im delighted but one thing you dont do is chase Cork.or Kerry in Munster finals.

At our cost last week in killarney we ended with a stronger team in some aeras but it was too late.

Their is no point in closing the stable door when the horse has bolted.
Prevention is always better than a cure.

We have our problems too but JBM and Cunnigham.made changes fast enough the last time bar Mcdonnell but we had unlike sunday no replacement fot him.

Allen while he made changes i felt he was slow enough making them against Tipp where JBM hauled moylan off after 30 minutes and brought Coughlan on.

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

as a Cork man im delighted but one thing you dont do is chase Cork.or Kerry in Munster finals.

At our cost last week in killarney we ended with a stronger team in some aeras but it was too late.

Their is no point in closing the stable door when the horse has bolted.
Prevention is always better than a cure.

We have our problems too but JBM and Cunnigham.made changes fast enough the last time bar Mcdonnell but we had unlike sunday no replacement fot him.

Allen while he made changes i felt he was slow enough making them against Tipp where JBM hauled moylan off after 30 minutes and brought Coughlan on.

You know your hurling.

This match will tell us where Allen is at. I had grave doubts about him before the Tipp match and would like to have seen him sacked.

Sunday will reveal whether it was just a fluke or he knows what he is at.

Eddie Dillon

Rightwing wrote: »

You know your hurling.

This match will tell us where Allen is at. I had grave doubts about him before the Tipp match and would like to have seen him sacked.

Sunday will reveal whether it was just a fluke or he knows what he is at.

Yeah, because sacking the manager just before the championship kicks off is a really smart move to make! I would have thought that Limerick fans, with their crazy number of managers over the last decade, would realise that sacking managers every year does not improve a team. As for John Allen being a 'fluke', I think the run of 1 All-Ireland, 2 Munsters and a 10-game unbeaten run in the 05/06 championship by his Cork team kind of speaks for itself!

Rightwing

Eddie Dillon wrote: »

Yeah, because sacking the manager just before the championship kicks off is a really smart move to make! I would have thought that Limerick fans, with their crazy number of managers over the last decade, would realise that sacking managers every year does not improve a team. As for John Allen being a 'fluke', I think the run of 1 All-Ireland, 2 Munsters and a 10-game unbeaten run in the 05/06 championship by his Cork team kind of speaks for itself!

Good 1st post Eddie

Thinkstoomuch

Eddie Dillon wrote: »

Yeah, because sacking the manager just before the championship kicks off is a really smart move to make! I would have thought that Limerick fans, with their crazy number of managers over the last decade, would realise that sacking managers every year does not improve a team. As for John Allen being a 'fluke', I think the run of 1 All-Ireland, 2 Munsters and a 10-game unbeaten run in the 05/06 championship by his Cork team kind of speaks for itself!

sunday will tell a lot.

In fairness that Cork team was already built and was a well oiled machine for 2 years under O Grady.

O Grady built that team himself.He took over in 03 and lost the first final unluckily but made progress the next year and won an all ireland.No matter who was in charge in 05 we would have won as Galway were no KK.

In 2006 we stuttered along the way...allen refused to freshen up the team with a new game plan and players.

The signs were their against Clare and Waterford but he ignored the warnings.He left it far too late to bring gardiner to CB and Ronan on for Cococoran with the game nearly out of sight in 05.Every Cork fan was crying out for that change at half time.

We had no plan B against KK.We were out played and in truth were worse than the 3 point defeat.

If people think playing Hickey at Centre forward for limerick is bad ,its nothing startscompared to playing Cian O Connor a corner back up as a forward when Cork tried to chase the game.Plenty of other forwards on the bench but he brings on a defender who he started against Clare in a Munster championship game and had to be taken off as he was so bad as a forward.

Allen was lucky he was in the right place at the right time like Michael Bond was with Offaly in 98.

Allen has done nothing yet bar win one Munster game against what proved to be a poor tipp team without Corbett at home.If he wins a munster title ,credit due.

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

sunday will tell a lot.

In fairness that Cork team was already built and was a well oiled machine for 2 years under O Grady.

O Grady built that team himself.He took over in 03 and lost the first final unluckily but made progress the next year and won an all ireland.No matter who was in charge in 05 we would have won as Galway were no KK.

In 2006 we stuttered along the way...allen refused to freshen up the team with a new game plan and players.

The signs were their against Clare and Waterford but he ignored the warnings.He left it far too late to bring gardiner to CB and Ronan on for Cococoran with the game nearly out of sight in 05.Every Cork fan was crying out for that change at half time.

We had no plan B against KK.We were out played and in truth were worse than the 3 point defeat.

If people think playing Hickey at Centre forward for limerick is bad ,its nothing startscompared to playing Cian O Connor a corner back up as a forward when Cork tried to chase the game.Plenty of other forwards on the bench but he brings on a defender who he started against Clare in a Munster championship game and had to be taken off as he was so bad as a forward.

Allen was lucky he was in the right place at the right time like Michael Bond was with Offaly in 98.

Allen has done nothing yet bar win one Munster game against what proved to be a poor tipp team without Corbett at home.If he wins a munster title ,credit due.

Absolutely, but as you say Sunday will tell us. This Cork team are beatable, but they are certainly no pushovers. It will take a good performance on the field and sideline to beat them.

slegs

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

sunday will tell a lot.

In fairness that Cork team was already built and was a well oiled machine for 2 years under O Grady.

O Grady built that team himself.He took over in 03 and lost the first final unluckily but made progress the next year and won an all ireland.No matter who was in charge in 05 we would have won as Galway were no KK.

In 2006 we stuttered along the way...allen refused to freshen up the team with a new game plan and players.

The signs were their against Clare and Waterford but he ignored the warnings.He left it far too late to bring gardiner to CB and Ronan on for Cococoran with the game nearly out of sight in 05.Every Cork fan was crying out for that change at half time.

We had no plan B against KK.We were out played and in truth were worse than the 3 point defeat.

If people think playing Hickey at Centre forward for limerick is bad ,its nothing startscompared to playing Cian O Connor a corner back up as a forward when Cork tried to chase the game.Plenty of other forwards on the bench but he brings on a defender who he started against Clare in a Munster championship game and had to be taken off as he was so bad as a forward.

Allen was lucky he was in the right place at the right time like Michael Bond was with Offaly in 98.

Allen has done nothing yet bar win one Munster game against what proved to be a poor tipp team without Corbett at home.If he wins a munster title ,credit due.

Hardly a poor Tipp team. A bit of a simplistic view just because they were beaten again by Kilkenny (who just happen to be All Ireland Champions for 6 out of the last 7 years).

In my mind Tipp are still the second best team in the country. Limerick beat them on merit so Allen deserves credit for that. Sunday is a whole new ball game and doesn't change anything that happened before it.

Also unfair to say it was just right place right time for Allen. Nobody wins an All Ireland with luck - its just too difficult in the modern back door game.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely, but as you say Sunday will tell us. This Cork team are beatable, but they are certainly no pushovers. It will take a good performance on the field and sideline to beat them.

we are beatable with out a doubt.We are still in transition.We are still in need of a full back.

The game could very well be won and lost by how fast both managements teams make changes as their are weak spots on both starting teams.

Thinkstoomuch

slegs wrote: »

Hardly a poor Tipp team. A bit of a simplistic view just because they were beaten again by Kilkenny (who just happen to be All Ireland Champions for 6 out of the last 7 years).

In my mind Tipp are still the second best team in the country. Limerick beat them on merit so Allen deserves credit for that. Sunday is a whole new ball game and doesn't change anything that happened before it.

Also unfair to say it was just right place right time for Allen. Nobody wins an All Ireland with luck - its just too difficult in the modern back door game.

i thought tipp would win but did not.The fact is as any tipp fan will tell you they were poor by comparison to a few years ago.

Tippereary seemed a team devoid of any ideas or drive.Limerick deserved the win but they were far from convincing with a full strength team where tipp had Corbett out.I would have said the same up to last weekend but its hard to say Tipp are the second best team now.KK were their for the taki.g last week but tipp look a team in decline.

On the odd occasion in sport timing is everything.
Chelesa won a champions league possibly worst than what they were when they could have won it.
Di matteo was a lucky manager.He took over a team destined to win it.
All he brought to the team was a new energy and freshness ,no great tactics or game plan.
They won it but he failed to get out of the group then and had a woeful start under him.He got lucky.

Allen was the same with Cork.The team and game plan was already their in 05.
What new tactics or players did he bring to the set up.????

Naughton was the only one.Naughton was actually good in hes first year as he had the elemtent of suprise but Allen decided to bring him on way too late in the 06 final.

Allen was ideal in that he was accepted by the players but be did not make Cork better than what they were.


Michael Bond was the same with offaly in 98.He was the right man at the right time.Offaly won that all Ireland more in spite of BABS than Bond being anything special as a manager.

The only reason Brian Whelehan was at full forward was he was too sick to play anywhere else.

Has Bond done anything since.

If allen wins limerick a munster title then credit due.If not then progess has not been made as it was one step forward but ten steps back.As at home with a full strength squad ,up against a Cork team in transition if they loose its a big blow for limerick.

bennyl10

GAA confirm Sunday is sell-out.

premierstone

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

If allen wins limerick a munster title then credit due.If not then progess has not been made as it was one step forward but ten steps back.As at home with a full strength squad ,up against a Cork team in transition if they loose its a big blow for limerick.

I think you are a very good poster and clearly know your hurling, but you definitely have personal issue with Allen, you have always criticised him or played down he's achievements. The above is completely false tbh and Sundays game is a 50/50 game plain and simple, a loss will not be a major blow to either side as long as the performance is there.

Allen won that AI with Cork completely on merit and you only have to look at Tipp to see how hard it is to step in after a successfull manager and maintain the success - if Tipp won in 2011 Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne would have been put down as lucky that they were handed an AI winning team - unfortunately AI's aren't handed out as easy as that, and if anything it is harder to come in after sucess, the only way is down.


Under Allen Limerick have quite clearly improved and anyone arguing otherwise is mistaken or quite frankly lying, he has drawn the short straw by getting Tipp in the opening round two years running and despite this has qualified for a Munster final at the second time of asking, but far more impressivley he did so by clearly learning from the defeat the year before ( when Limerick had nothing on the bench with 15 mins to go and payers tiring badly)

Rightwing

bennyl10 wrote: »

GAA confirm Sunday is sell-out.

Tickets are still available on tickets.ie, if anyone interested.

bennyl10

Rightwing wrote: »

Tickets are still available on tickets.ie, if anyone interested.

Ya?
Rte on 1o'ock news said all tickets gone.
Must be last dribs & draps.

Rightwing

bennyl10 wrote: »

Ya?
Rte on 1o'ock news said all tickets gone.
Must be last dribs & draps.

I just checked, was possible to get 8 of them on the Clare end. Will be a sell out though, just not yet.

glasagusban

Fireball07 wrote: »

One thing I'm wondering about is that Cork have a clear weakness at full-back, McDonnell was exposed badly by Honan, and isn't a natural full-back, but is a good hurler.

If we play with a 2-man inside line, that will suit McDonnell and Cork down to the ground. So I wonder what are the chances of Breen being lumped in at full-forward, or Hannon either? I do think that playing someone like Downes would have been the most effective route.

I'd agree with that. However we are clearly playing to a system, if the full back follows Hannon it should leave space for our corner forwards to exploit. If he doesn't, Hannon will pop points over all day. Allen has the team set up playing this way and it seems this is our system let other teams adapt to it rather than the other way around. I wish we had downes or dowling in from the start to give the attack more teeth but I'll trust Allen knows what he's doing.

The begrudgery of allens record is a bit unbelievable too. I think he has a good record in his use of subs with cork and with limerick, much was made of last year v tipp but the fact was we didn't have the players to bring on.

Fireball07

glasagusban wrote: »

I'd agree with that. However we are clearly playing to a system, if the full back follows Hannon it should leave space for our corner forwards to exploit. If he doesn't, Hannon will pop points over all day. Allen has the team set up playing this way and it seems this is our system let other teams adapt to it rather than the other way around. I wish we had downes or dowling in from the start to give the attack more teeth but I'll trust Allen knows what he's doing.

The begrudgery of allens record is a bit unbelievable too. I think he has a good record in his use of subs with cork and with limerick, much was made of last year v tipp but the fact was we didn't have the players to bring on.

If Hannon falls back around midfield, and McDonnell doesn't follow, they could bring back a player of their own. Lehane's not a corner-forward generally, and you could see him come back to the wing, with Cronin coming to midfield.


It'll be an interesting one, how things pan out tactically.

slegs

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

i thought tipp would win but did not.The fact is as any tipp fan will tell you they were poor by comparison to a few years ago.

Tippereary seemed a team devoid of any ideas or drive.Limerick deserved the win but they were far from convincing with a full strength team where tipp had Corbett out.I would have said the same up to last weekend but its hard to say Tipp are the second best team now.KK were their for the taki.g last week but tipp look a team in decline.

On the odd occasion in sport timing is everything.
Chelesa won a champions league possibly worst than what they were when they could have won it.
Di matteo was a lucky manager.He took over a team destined to win it.
All he brought to the team was a new energy and freshness ,no great tactics or game plan.
They won it but he failed to get out of the group then and had a woeful start under him.He got lucky.

Allen was the same with Cork.The team and game plan was already their in 05.
What new tactics or players did he bring to the set up.????

Naughton was the only one.Naughton was actually good in hes first year as he had the elemtent of suprise but Allen decided to bring him on way too late in the 06 final.

Allen was ideal in that he was accepted by the players but be did not make Cork better than what they were.


Michael Bond was the same with offaly in 98.He was the right man at the right time.Offaly won that all Ireland more in spite of BABS than Bond being anything special as a manager.

The only reason Brian Whelehan was at full forward was he was too sick to play anywhere else.

Has Bond done anything since.

If allen wins limerick a munster title then credit due.If not then progess has not been made as it was one step forward but ten steps back.As at home with a full strength squad ,up against a Cork team in transition if they loose its a big blow for limerick.

So your argument is that because Limerick beat Tipp then Tipp arent as good as you thought beforehand? The same argument could be made that Clare flopped and Cork are actually an average team that were lucky to meet Clare on their off day.

One game wont define anything. Win or lose on Sunday Limerick are already making progress this year. They will also still be in the championship if they lose and I believe will be there or thereabouts for the All Ireland.

Implying that this Sunday is some kind of acid test of Allen's term as Limerick manager is not correct in my view. He has quite clearly progressed this team - the best example of this was last year in the Tipp and Kilkenny games where Limerick were very competitive and it was only by very fine margins that they lost. This year they have grown again and managed to close out a tight game against one of the big 2. The only real changes this year were tactical and fitness which have to be credited to Allen and his team.

Success or failure at this level is a very fine line and the progress that has been made wont be lessened by whatever happens at the weekend. That said I am confident that this Limerick side will seize this opportunity to get their first Munster title since 1996.

Copper_pipe

Im not a fan of all this hype and DOG saying "I have visions of lifting the cup"

Rightwing

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Im not a fan of all this hype and DOG saying "I have visions of lifting the cup"

Well we'll give Allen credit where it's due, the build-up within the set up has been low key, that's important.

Thinkstoomuch

premierstone wrote: »

I think you are a very good poster and clearly know your hurling, but you definitely have personal issue with Allen, you have always criticised him or played down he's achievements. The above is completely false tbh and Sundays game is a 50/50 game plain and simple, a loss will not be a major blow to either side as long as the performance is there.

Allen won that AI with Cork completely on merit and you only have to look at Tipp to see how hard it is to step in after a successfull manager and maintain the success - if Tipp won in 2011 Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne would have been put down as lucky that they were handed an AI winning team - unfortunately AI's aren't handed out as easy as that, and if anything it is harder to come in after sucess, the only way is down.


Under Allen Limerick have quite clearly improved and anyone arguing otherwise is mistaken or quite frankly lying, he has drawn the short straw by getting Tipp in the opening round two years running and despite this has qualified for a Munster final at the second time of asking, but far more impressivley he did so by clearly learning from the defeat the year before ( when Limerick had nothing on the bench with 15 mins to go and payers tiring badly)

i have no problem personally or an agenda against allen.Just giving my view on him from what i have seen with 2 years with Cork.I have been to many training sessions under allen and have been far from blown away with any new ideas when he trained Cork.

I could on the Cork thread have been accused of having a personal agenda against Fintan Gould,Cathal Naughton Cussen and Conor Couhinan who i have criticsed and rightly so but again i was just calling a spade a spade.I unfortunately have been proven right regards these lads.

if im wrong about Allen I will admit it.
Some fans seem to run with the hare and chase with the hounds when it suits them regarding managers.I have before the tipp game voiced my concerns,and said afterwards that while credit was due to him,im going to wait for sunday before im convinced as im not going to jump ship,say hes great after just one win and then if hes messes up sunday say he is bad again.

Some limerick fans will do that sunday if they loose.
if he wins a munster title,he has done well with limerick.


The myth that he won Cork this all ireland on hes own is rubbish.All through the league he failed to bring a plan B to Cork.Ger C was the man clearly telling the Cork players what to do against Waterford in 06 when we were chasing the game.I was behind Ger C and he was moving he hands roaring orders while allen just stood stlill clearly lacking the insight in to any changes.


People here seem to forget my point about starting Cian O Connor as a forward when anyone with any clue to Cork GAA will tell you he is no where near one.

Hickey clearly is out of postion as a CF for limerick,if they loose Sunday will limerick fans think my god allen was right.


Cork were lucky against Clare in 05 and we beat a poor galway team that ambushed KK.We would not have beaten KK under allen.

A lot of limerick fans were questioning allen after the defeat to dublin and were nervous up to the tipp game.

As i said he won and credit due.My point is all the hype about he being a great manager is overblown and based on.one game does not merit such views.

Allen has been and dont forget questioned by fans for loosing two league finals.

Even some here now are and rightly so questioning hes team for sunday.
Limerick have always had one game in them,take 05 when they drew with tipl and 07 for example.This limerick team has done nothing different from before so far.

One win at home is not anything to get carried away with.Denis Walsh was hailed a hero after a big win at home against tipp.It was a false dawn.

If limerick and they are good enough to win beat Cork.then progress has been made as Allen would have got two back to back wins and a munster title that others failed to do.

Loose sunday and thats 3 finals he will have lost,and suddenly all the fans that support him will soon question him.

I had said limericks win was good against tipp but it needs to be kept in perspective.

I have not got carried away with Corks win.But i do feel their is more improvement in Cork as we were so weak injury wise that to beat anyone was a good win considering we had not played anyone in 90 days,the last team out in the championship with out its captain.

Counihan won one all ireland with cork.Any cork fan and even hes loyal followers will tell you he is a poor manager.Everything at face value.


To me allen has lost far more big games than he won with Cork and Limerick and my point is i wont be convinced till he wins sunday.

KK that beat tipp in 2011 were awesome,the team.of 2006 were not as strong as them as shown by as poor as we were we came within 3points of them.KK of 2011 would of blown us out the gate.


Sure Limerick nearly beat us in 2006 in a q final.A poor limerick team many would agree.Allen did not look to have any great ideas and in fact was actually criticised for playing the wrong tactics in the Cork media afterwards.


Im a Cork man through and through.Im not or dont have any great joy in criticsing my own.But at the end of the day,its sport,nothing personal,judged on results.Thats the problem in some counties,you criticise any person deemed a gentle man and people think its personal or agenda driven.

Personal insults i have never done on this forum.I have said Allen is a gentleman after beating Tipp and one of the nicest men like Couhinan you will meet.That does not mean,I cant criticise him as a manager.My parish priest is a lovely man but that does not mean i wont crticise him if he is a poor manager.

And i do not agree that if Limerick loose Sunday that progress has been still made.
Limerick have one of the best chances ever to beat Cork and if they dont then they have not made much progress.Like us,if they loose and have to meet KK in a quater final and are beaten its been a short season.

Chabals Beard

One thing I am looking forward to is having to log it all the way to thurles.. it horrible getting out of that place.

glasagusban

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Im not a fan of all this hype and DOG saying "I have visions of lifting the cup"

Of course he F'ing has what do you think he's playing for!?

Rightwing

Chabals Beard wrote: »

One thing I am looking forward to is having to log it all the way to thurles.. it horrible getting out of that place.

The match is on in Limerick :rolleyes:

spacetrap

The best of luck to Limerick and heres hoping that we might get to meet each other in the All Ireland final. Come on the Banner

mickmackey1

Excellent post there Thinks, but maybe a bit harsh on Cork '06... Gardiner, Curran, Sean Óg, The Rock, Ben, Corcoran, Deane, not a bad outfit!

keane2097

Match preview here lads if ye want a look:

http://www.livegaelic.com/news/munster-hurling-championship-preview-limerick-vs-cork/

Aidric

I'll be finding an Irish bar to watch this. Pumped for it and hope Limerick can deliver the goods on home turf. When they say it's a sell out what is the max capacity? 45/50k?

Chabals Beard

Rightwing wrote: »

The match is on in Limerick :rolleyes:

Ah jaysus, meant to say not going to thurles, I will get my coat :P