Pony; advice asked please

Graces7

Please, bear in mind that I know almost nothing re horses.. so am here to learn.

There is a large new barn almost opposite our isolated cottage. No windows.

A long way from the farm. It is used for storage etc seemingly by a few farmers. And maybe for sheep also?

These last few weeks we have been hearing very distressed ??bleats?? we thought and hooves banging on the metal walls.

It starts at first light.

He comes up twice a day to feed stock; he has chickens up here free range and also a donkey and a small white goat that is forever running loose in the road.

This morning I went to have a word. Not well received of course, but the noise is loud and worrying.

It is apparently the black and white pony that runs loose in summer. He says it has been in since the snow. But it is only the last few weeks that this noise has been going on.

He claims all is does is paw the ground.. not so. It crashes hooves against the walls. And the vocal noise is amazing.

So it is locked in with no windows 24/7 with no exercise...

Is that usual and healthy? He is in and out with food twice a day for maybe ten minutes. Then there is no one in earshot etc

Of course our name will be mud now but rather safe than else for the animal.

And why the goat and donkey out in all the ice and snow with no real shelter and not the pony?

Over to you and thanks

convert

I'm not 100% sure here what you're asking about the pony being stabled all the time. If the pony is injured/old/unwell then it would be usual for it to be stabled, rather than the donkey or the goat, as some treatments require stable rest, especially if the pony is lame. Also, if the pony has full run of the barn rather than just one section of it, then it's not as bad as being restricted to just one tiny corner.

Re the pony banging on the door/walls - this is quite common for horses to do, especially if they hear someone coming with food. Sometimes a horse will associate people's voices with food, so if they hear anyone walking around, even if it's not the owner, then they will bang on the door asking for food. And that sound will appear quite loud, even though they may just be lightly tapping on it with their hooves - don't forget how strong a pony is, even if it's quite small. The same goes for their whinney (the proper term) - it's extremely loud to the human ear, and if the pony is inside it'll echo in the barn and appear even louder.

Regards the owners response to your query this morning: What did you ask and what exactly was their answer? You didn't provide much information on that which would help with suggesting a course of action. However, if you're really worried about the pony's welfare, then contact your local SPCA, though how far you'll get is open to debate, especially as you say the pony is fed twice a day.

Also, you could try posting in the Equestrian Forum as there's quite a few people there who have a really good knowledge of horses and their welfare and who would be happy to and able to advise you.

Graces7

So you are saying that it is fine to leave a pony entirely alone, with no windows almost 24/7 in a totally isolated mountain barn?

We would not do that to any animal, frankly.

Last evening the pony started what can only be described as screaming - not a whinney - in the early evening and did not stop for most of the night.

Cars were stopping on the lane to listen to it.

And the kicking is not tapping but frantic.

No animal that is well cared for behaves like that surely? Or is this accepted here?

The SPCA have been. We care too much for animals to condon this.

Magenta

convert wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure here what you're asking about the pony being stabled all the time. If the pony is injured/old/unwell then it would be usual for it to be stabled, rather than the donkey or the goat, as some treatments require stable rest, especially if the pony is lame. Also, if the pony has full run of the barn rather than just one section of it, then it's not as bad as being restricted to just one tiny corner.

Re the pony banging on the door/walls - this is quite common for horses to do, especially if they hear someone coming with food. Sometimes a horse will associate people's voices with food, so if they hear anyone walking around, even if it's not the owner, then they will bang on the door asking for food. And that sound will appear quite loud, even though they may just be lightly tapping on it with their hooves - don't forget how strong a pony is, even if it's quite small. The same goes for their whinney (the proper term) - it's extremely loud to the human ear, and if the pony is inside it'll echo in the barn and appear even louder.

Regards the owners response to your query this morning: What did you ask and what exactly was their answer? You didn't provide much information on that which would help with suggesting a course of action. However, if you're really worried about the pony's welfare, then contact your local SPCA, though how far you'll get is open to debate, especially as you say the pony is fed twice a day.

Also, you could try posting in the Equestrian Forum as there's quite a few people there who have a really good knowledge of horses and their welfare and who would be happy to and able to advise you.

It is not AT ALL healthy let alone natural for a horse to be stabled 24/7.
This is how they develop behavioural problems- stable vices.
Swaying their heads, wind sucking, cribbing... they go mad from pure boredom.
And being left in darkness for hours on end all day? I wouldn't do that to a fish let alone a horse.
Here is a link to stable vices- including wall kicking- and how they are caused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stable_vices

I am shocked that you show no apparent concern for the poor horse.
It does not matter how well they are fed or groomed, keeping them in a stable 24/7 is cruelty.

Discodog

Grace there are horses & ponies all over my area locked in small isolated sheds that are never cleaned out. It seems to be the norm. As does shouting, waving sticks etc as a method of horse communication.

A neighbour & his friend spend 30 mins of shouting & stick waving to try & get a mare & foal into a horse box. My comments fell on deaf ears so I offered a bet. €20 if I could get them both in the box. It took a good 20 minutes to get the mare to calm down & then with owner out of sight, she calmly walked onto the box & the foal followed.

This shutting in of ponies is very strange to me. I think that sometimes it is used as a way of, in their words, "putting manners on him or besting him". All I know is that they wouldn't do it in the UK.

You are a very sweet natured person & your efforts are wasted. What with this & the lack of help in the snow, you must be wondering whether you moved to the right place.

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

Please, bear in mind that I know almost nothing re horses.. so am here to learn.

So it is locked [...] 24/7 with no exercise...

Is that usual and healthy?

And why the goat and donkey out in all the ice and snow with no real shelter and not the pony?

Over to you and thanks

My post simply addressed the queries which you raised in your initial post. I merely stated some of the most frequent and common reasons as to why an owner would choose to stable their pony while leaving a donkey and goat outside, while also outlining some of the behaviour which may be associated with a stabled pony. At no stage did I condone the owner's behaviour, and suggested that you contact your local SPCA as they are the best organisation/people to approach in a scenario such as that which you have outlined in your initial post.

Graces7

Discodog wrote: »

Grace there are horses & ponies all over my area locked in small isolated sheds that are never cleaned out. It seems to be the norm. As does shouting, waving sticks etc as a method of horse communication.

A neighbour & his friend spend 30 mins of shouting & stick waving to try & get a mare & foal into a horse box. My comments fell on deaf ears so I offered a bet. €20 if I could get them both in the box. It took a good 20 minutes to get the mare to calm down & then with owner out of sight, she calmly walked onto the box & the foal followed.

This shutting in of ponies is very strange to me. I think that sometimes it is used as a way of, in their words, "putting manners on him or besting him". All I know is that they wouldn't do it in the UK.

You are a very sweet natured person & your efforts are wasted. What with this & the lack of help in the snow, you must be wondering whether you moved to the right place.

For this, blessings and thanks, and for Magenta's response also.

I was beginning to think it was "just me"....

The SPCA came y'day; no idea of the outcome. The night before was hell, as the screaming set off all the local dogs.

The man of course never hears this as he lives far away .

I had already left a note on the shed door advising of the screaming the night before and suggesting he either put a winter coat on the pony and let it out - or shoot it and end its misery.

One interesting point; this is a new building so I checked the planning online and it was permitted as a storage shed so we can maybe get this stopped that way.

There is no air circulating and no light either; and no means of disposing of waste.

There seems also to be a lot of... traffic over there which has stopped the last few days while the SPCA etc was pending. Delivery vans etc... so near the border here.

Discodog; we have seen this kind of thing ever since we came to Ireland. So nothing really shocks; but this case has stunned me. Yes, after this winter...But we learn all the while.

Just the terrible screaming that seared the soul.

And we know how much you care and we honour your caring.

Just now am scrounging funding to help a local lady get a colony of feral cats neutered. Wonderful that all the available humane traps are out already; and to know how much is being done out there quietly.

So far in 4 months here we have sorted two dogs and several chickens... And they know now that if we see anything bad we will act and that we do have official backing. So nothing has been wasted; they will think twice now.

This man seems to collect animals.

The interesting thing re the snow was that all the men who had refused to bring fuel when I needed it - and this man was one such with a great pile of turf in that shed - then had to push me all the way back that last mile after I had to go out for it; there is justice..

Blessings and thanks

Graces7

( cannot access my earlier post to edit yet..)

My honour - but not pleasure - to be a seasoned warrior for Irish animals. In my first winter here, and I was then not in Donegal, but at the dead end of a mountain lane elsewhere a mile from the nearest narrow road) a ram was dumped at the gate with its legs tied together. It was Advent; they had... fleeced him of his wool and his seed and he was not worth feeding then and it would cost to dispose of him. ( I did not know that then of course)

I am not young and I have (hidden) disability; no one would help so I called the Gardai.. two cars arrived. The men had been careless enough to leave some ear ID on so they were traced and thereafter I lost count of the rams dumped. The Gardai were great.

The Gardai got sick of me though.

In my efforts to get animals help, I was both insulted and once assaulted. That farmer ended up in court; not before I had got the Dept of Ag to him over his dreadfully neglected sheep, which was used in court of course.

They were amazing in the speed of their response.

His last act to me before I left that house was to dump an old ewe, legs tied together, at my gate. She had a slight prolapse. We had the last laugh that time as she gave birth to a beautiful lamb and they both went to a petting farm.

She was a dote; they both were. The ewe knew I would help her.

etc etc etc;

Eight years on now and not being brave, it always knocks me sick, quite literally, when these things have to be sorted.

Had to cancel work today accordingly.

But I cannot walk past.

Quite possibly my "reputation", this being a small country, has preceded me.

Discodog wrote once that if you live in rural Ireland and love animals, you cannot be in good terms with your neighbours.

So be it; our four rescued critters are all the friends here we need; and the SPCA and other rescue organisations are there when we need them.

And OF COURSE, boards ie, thankfully.

So let us strengthen each other...

ppink

Graces7 wrote: »

I had already left a note on the shed door advising of the screaming the night before and suggesting he either put a winter coat on the pony and let it out - or shoot it and end its misery.


Just the terrible screaming that seared the soul.


This man seems to collect animals.

OP I really cannot understand your statements on this at all.

For someone who knows nothing about horses how can you decide it is in misery......surely that is up to the SPCA to decide.

Animals scream.........did you ever hear foxes mating, you would think they were having their 4 paws nailed to a cross with the racket they make.

How do you now say he collects animals?????

Either way it is up to the SPCA to deal with

Graces7

ppink wrote: »

OP I really cannot understand your statements on this at all.

For someone who knows nothing about horses how can you decide it is in misery......surely that is up to the SPCA to decide.

Animals scream.........did you ever hear foxes mating, you would think they were having their 4 paws nailed to a cross with the racket they make.

How do you now say he collects animals?????

Either way it is up to the SPCA to deal with

If you really do not "understand" and cannot tell the difference between a neigh or whinney and a frenzied screaming for hours on end, then nothing anyone can say will change that.

OK?

OK.

Graces7

PS to my last posting.

I now do know a lot about horses having learned from rescue people since this started.

What is being done here is wrong and cruel. Period.

SPCA are limited in Ireland as the archaic laws say that if an animal has food, water and shelter all is fine. and "shelter" can mean simply that there are trees it can take cover under.

One rescue person was called out to cattle that were knee deep in mud; as they were being fed etc? Nothing anyone could do.

In the UK etc, it is different.

Also SPCA here are not highly trained.

He was leaving a young pony totally alone and missing evening feeding also. Hence the all -night screaming.

That is being set right now. Please God the pony will be out soon.

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

PS to my last posting.

I now do know a lot about horses having learned from rescue people since this started.

So you learned all there is to know about horses in a period of 4 days. I'm sorry, but I would not let anyone near my horses if they only had a year's experience/understanding/learning of the animal, let alone 4 days!

However, that is not to say that you are wrong in this case; I just think you should leave it up to the SPCA who do a the best job they can.

ppink

Graces7 wrote: »

If you really do not "understand" and cannot tell the difference between a neigh or whinney and a frenzied screaming for hours on end, then nothing anyone can say will change that.

OK?

OK.

Fine comment but does not answer the questions I asked really

I have been around horses most of my life and have heard screaming etc for many different reasons, including screaming solidly as a mare was in season and pony wanted to get out to her.

If it is cruelty the SPCA or the guards are the only people in this country able to deal with this.

Graces7

As you in the last two posts are determined to read what is not there, there is no need for me to reply - period.

What is being done is being done for the good of the wee pony.

Which is all that matters and what matters most.

Blessings and peace

eddie12

Hi Graces7,
I know you mean the very best for the pony but have you considered that the pony could be a yearling that is being weaned off the mare? If not confined to the shed, he could do some serious damage to himself. Do you know how long he's been there? As mentioned before, its best left to the SPCA or IHWT www.ihwt.ie.
Also with reference to your comments regarding shelter, some horse are perfectly happy living in the open with just trees for shelter. It depends on the breed and upbringing. For example, thoroughbreds and other light coated breeds need more shelter and better feeding during the winter than the trad cobs or irish draught. I do however welcome your expert commentry on irish horse care and our archaic laws...after all, we are world renowned for being very bad with horses:D
All the best

Discodog

There is a world of difference between our equestrians though some of those have hardly been saints & our horse/pony farmers. We have an appalling reputation in that we now have thousands of unwanted horses. The horse industry will blame the recession but there has been overproduction for years. Now there are even cases of thoroughbreds being slaughtered including race horses.

Much of Europe picks up the pieces from our lack of animal welfare. We send our unwanted dogs to other countries even though they all have strays of their own. Our total reluctance to introduce animal welfare legislation & the huge opposition when we try further damages our reputation.

Yet again someone who cares is told to leave it to the experts & to not interfere. Why does that sound so familiar ?

Graces7

eddie12 wrote: »

Hi Graces7,
I know you mean the very best for the pony but have you considered that the pony could be a yearling that is being weaned off the mare? If not confined to the shed, he could do some serious damage to himself. Do you know how long he's been there? As mentioned before, its best left to the SPCA or IHWT www.ihwt.ie.
Also with reference to your comments regarding shelter, some horse are perfectly happy living in the open with just trees for shelter. It depends on the breed and upbringing. For example, thoroughbreds and other light coated breeds need more shelter and better feeding during the winter than the trad cobs or irish draught. I do however welcome your expert commentry on irish horse care and our archaic laws...after all, we are world renowned for being very bad with horses:D
All the best

No of course that is not the case.

Damage is being done by his battering the metal walls of that enclosed windowless box to get out. In sun it must be like a dog left in a car.

Your facetiousness is noted; I am taking it of course to mean that you are aware of Ireland's international notoriety for cruelty and neglect to horses etc etc.

And for using outdated laws to defend this

Have a nice day.

ppink

Discodog wrote: »

Yet again someone who cares is told to leave it to the experts & to not interfere. Why does that sound so familiar ?

It is not someone being told to leave a horse in distress but simply a response to the posts by the OP.

1. Knows nothing (self admission) about horses yet has decided this one is in misery.
2. If it is in misery and not well taken care of then there are organisations who are well versed in horse welfare to advise of this.
3. Writing notes on the door of a shed to a person who did not respond well to confrontation sounds a bit like a waste of time to me, never mind an antagonist. Everyone knows that by antagonising people who treat animals badly just makes the situation far worse.
4. Telling someone to "put a rug on it and let it out or shoot it and end its misery" from a person who knows nothing about horses seems like a bit of a wild reaction to me.
5. "SPCA here are not highly trained", may be the case I honestly dont know but they must surely know more than someone who knows nothing about horses......if not the the IHWT surely does?

If I were in this situation and worried about ANY animal I would contact the relevant people and follow up with them to find out what is going on ( and yes I have done this over and over and over ). If they are in a helpless situation due to our crazy laws (ie it is not in a great situation but within the law) then I would approach and ask could I purchase said horse.

Magenta

Discodog wrote: »

Yet again someone who cares is told to leave it to the experts & to not interfere. Why does that sound so familiar ?

I know. I've said it before and I'll say it again- animal welfare is everybody's business. Animals can't speak for themselves. Too many people turn a blind eye to their suffering.

Graces7

Magenta and Discodog; thank you.

Your words are truth.

ppink; I have already said as politely as possible that I am disregarding what you say as you are misreading what I have written.

So there is no reply possible to anything you say simply.

Just now this pony is screaming so loudly he can be clearly heard through double glazing.

In your zeal of ??expertise?? ..

The shed is a large metal storage shed. No air or windows. He has not seen daylight for three months now.

All the SPCA can look at/consider is if an animal has food, water and shelter. Period. That is "the law" and as Dickens said, "The law is a ass."

The owner lives several miles away. Because there is no way he, or his family, would put up with this noise in their back yard. So he leaves the animal - which he intends to keep there for another month - in an isolated storage shed.

So he cannot hear it.

We have here been verbally assaulted and attempts made at initimidating us - for caring.

And - sweet Lord above!- been called unneighbourly for not being able to cope with this loud and agonising noise a few feet from our windows.

And told" Move away!" REALLY!

This from a man who refused to help with fuel , when alone here cut off four weeks in the snow ( and I am by the way alone here just now and a disabled pensioner) I presumed to ask for help in getting fuel.

Quite literally had it now been for a boards member who brought fuel in from a distance, I could well have died of hypothermia.

We moved here after floods last November and in recovery from serious illness. Needing quiet and peace. We particularly asked re the large shed, and were assured it was just a storage shed, and maybe would be used once a year for lambing.

Had we known truth we would never have come here.

It is too near a house also.

It is not suitable for animals like this. The temperature fluctuations in hot sun. night frost etc. And the lack of air, exercise, company.

If any of you attacking me like this really think that this is a fit way to 'care" for a pony? heaven help Ireland indeed.

This is not a professional horse man.

If you really believe that all you say is true, ppink, then you are living in lala land.

Many of us face reality daily re how animals are treated here.

We have dogs; we make very sure that they do not behave in a way that would be a nuisance to a neighbour. They bark when anyone comes near the house; that is their job - and they are both rescues as are our two cats. As we are in sheep country, we take great care that they never, ever stray.

Because we care about others.

About the effect our lives have on others.

If someone made a complaint re any of our animals, we would listen and act, and we would also apologise for the disturbance, and sincerely so.

In all this, there has not been in those attacking one iota of thought for the effect of the animal's behaviour on other people.

Is that not interesting?

Because it does matter.

People who do not care about other people have a problem.

IF this was real care for a pony then when the owner heard he was screaming hours on end? At that distance?

The man has no idea; he refuses to see that of course it stops when he is there.. he has never heard this.

So now he has dug his heels in. And the pony will suffer longer now also.

Anyone really concerned would take it seriously and do something eg take it to where it has company. where he can keep a better eye on it.

Not start this kind of warfare.

There is near Town a herd of Shetlands I stop to look at every time I pass.. They are so well cared for. They have a large shed, and the doors are either wide open or partly so, depending on the weather. A large concrete area, and always hay and feed there for them

And a field and trees; he replants part of the field every year.

And they have each other.

It is a joy to see them.

Ponies and horses are social animals. Not hermits.

This wee one is suffering and has been incarcerated since December now.

And there is nothing "the law" can do. Unless the owner is willing to change. Period.

I am ill now again. And am seeking a new house but am too ill now to move again.

So now I wear ear plugs 24/7. cut off from the bird song.

The thought of that pony and the noise so loud so near my window is more than can be tolerated now.

No animal cries out like that in such circumstances over such a long period if it is properly cared for.

It was not at first recognisable as a pony sound.

We saw him last November, racing round the field neighing and happy and free.

By the way, they never handle him.

Of course if they let him out by day and in at night, that would mean more work for him...

We love animals and care for whatever comes to us. And all our days now are spent in work for others.

And this is just too much now. It really is too much.

Graces7

Peace as really all that can be said has been said.

I may be away a while now so please can this thread be closed?

That would help me just now..It really would.
Blessings and thanks.

eddie12

Hi Graces7,
I was unfairly being facetious in my post yesterday. My apologies... a bad day.
Since December is a very long time for a pony to be kept indoors with no turnout or company. Also the fact that you live so close and are genuinely worrying cant be easy. I think you should get in touch with the IHWT for advice or if they can do anything for the pony.
Good luck

star-pants

Closed as per request