US Congress panel accuses Turkey of Armenian 'genocide'

IrishManSaipan

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Which even if true (nope) doesnt answer the question.

Germany, and as M@cca pointed out, the Netherlands relaxed restrictions on Turkish immigrants. The rest of europe didnt. Thus, they moved to Germany and the Netherlands. This isnt rocket science.

Mike 1972

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Six million Turks now live in the EU. Most arrived over the past 20-25 years. If they were to become a member of the EU they would have the right to freedom of movement and no longer need work permits to commence employment in Ireland. It would make eastern european immigration into Ireland seem like a drop in the ocean.

So theyre just biding their time in Germany waiting for the day when they can suddenly decamp en masse to Ireland ?

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Can you see were I am going with this at all, at all?

Going out of your way to avoid addressing any of the points put to you -thats for sure.

IrishManSaipan

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So theyre just biding their time in Germany waiting for the day when they can suddenly decamp en masse to Ireland ?

We were told that barely any eastern europeans would move to Ireland after the Nice referendum. You could have said that they too prefered to migrate to Germany instead of Ireland. How did that turn out?

I remember watching a programme on RTE called "Turkish Wives Club", where young Turks were marrying middle aged Irish women just to enter Ireland. Turkeys unemployment rate is higher than ours, they have millions of unemployed workers. The average wage is $6,700 per annum. Hundreds of thousands of young Turks would leave Turkey for Ireland.

Mike 1972

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

You could have said that they too prefered to migrate to Germany instead of Ireland.

Perhaps they did but initially there were less restrictions on them coming to UK/Ireland (You mentioned something about rocket science.........)

In the last year net migration betwween Eastern (Central ?) Europe and Ireland has been in the opposite direction (many of them never intended staying permanently anyway)

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

I remember watching a programme on RTE called "Turkish Wives Club", where young Turks were marrying middle aged Irish women just to enter Ireland.

And the women were aware of this ?

gurramok

Whats all this got to do with Armenians?

Will they drive all the Turks to Europe? :P

Pittens

In the last year net migration betwween Eastern (Central ?) Europe and Ireland has been in the opposite direction (many of them never intended staying permanently anyway)

I have to be honest with you Mike. That is part of the problem. The uncontrolled migration ,dependent on construction which depended on uncontrolled migration, was always a self-referential house of cards.

Them leaving is not good necessarily. At least not for NAMA.

Lastly, Turkey. It borders Bulgaria, Georgia Armenia, Azerbaijan Iran ; and Iraq and Syria .

So anybody who wants to pop into Europe, or the EU from Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq ( lol) or Syria needs to get into Turkey, were they a member of the EU.

Were all these groups bypassing Turkey as a permanent home it might have a more porous border then we would like. I am guessing that Iraqis would give it the old college try.

So no, Europe does not extend to Iraq, Iran, Syria, or Azerbaijan. Or close to them. And in other news, were the EU to include Turkey ( against the wishes of most of the people of Europe) the EU would last ten years at most. The nations would re-introduce national borders as quickly as possible.

Pittens

oh yeah, back on topic.

The Aremenian genocide was real. So too was the genocide ( effectively) of most Native American tribes. The fact that an American congress would recognise the former, not the latter does not make the fact of the former genocide any less true.

Mike 1972

Pittens wrote: »

The uncontrolled migration ,dependent on construction which depended on uncontrolled migration, was always a self-referential house of cards.

Not all migrants worked in construction even those who did are hardly to blame. The bubble predated Nice/EU enlargment. Blame the Bankers/Developers/Fianna Fail/Speculators/Estate agents /etc

Pittens wrote: »

Them leaving is not good necessarily. At least not for NAMA .

Quick lets build ourselves a wall............

Pittens wrote: »

it might have a more porous border then we would like .

Or given its tendency to be mountainous, heavily militarised and widely mined it might not ?

Pittens wrote: »

Turkey. It borders Bulgaria, Georgia Armenia, Azerbaijan Iran ; and Iraq and Syria .

Just like Poland borders Russia, Ukraine and Belarus
Just like Hungary borders Croatia and Serbia
Just like Greece borders Albania and Macedonia
Just like the Republic of Cyprus (sort of) borders......what is that place called again.......

Pittens wrote: »

The Aremenian genocide was real. So too was the genocide ( effectively) of most Native American tribes. The fact that an American congress would recognise the former, not the latter does not make the fact of the former genocide any less true.

Its a fair point although the United States is hardly the sole perpetrator given that the genocide started long before the foundation of the USA. Out of interest what is the stance (if any) of the Turkish parliament on this one ?

Capt'n Midnight

Chillaxe wrote: »

And lemon kurds.....

On a serious note, has turkey got oil now or something?

They have 72% of the worlds Boron.

It could be the next big renewable fuel.

pagancornflake

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

They have 72% of the worlds Boron.

It could be the next big renewable fuel.

We should so invite them to join Europe because of that and that piece of information alone.

Nodin

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Ive linked to the mans blog. You will find the original article there.

Why didn't you link to it originally?

Mike 1972

pagancornflake wrote: »

We should so invite them to join Europe because of that and that piece of information alone.

By that logic Saudi should have been in The EU(/EEC/ECSC) from day 1 ?

bonerm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

They have 72% of the worlds Boron.

And you're boron everyone here with that statistic.

jk

Capt'n Midnight

bonerm wrote: »

And you're boron everyone here with that statistic.

jk

I'm sure the Bolivians will be interested given the history of being exploited for their mineral rights, that and they have half of the worlds lithium, which is used in almost all mobile phones and laptops etc.


Has anyone pointed out that blaming Turkey for the genocide is like blaming East Germany for the Holocaust

Mike 1972

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Has anyone pointed out that blaming Turkey for the genocide is like blaming East Germany for the Holocaust

They probably wouldnt have been substantially more or less culpable than West Germany (or even Austria) ?

Shouldn't see why Americans should accuse anyone of Genocide when they are one of the most genocidal countries in the world.
Look at the Native Americans.
Where are they all now? The small minority are put on reservations while the rest were massacred.

robby^5

Deleted User wrote: »

Shouldn't see why Americans should accuse anyone of Genocide when they are one of the most genocidal countries in the world.
Look at the Native Americans.
Where are they all now? The small minority are put on reservations while the rest were massacred.

It's not just a case of Congress just deciding to point the finger all of a sudden, Armenian-Americans have been campaigning for this acknowledgement for years.

IrishManSaipan

The term genocide was coined by a human rights lawyer called Raphael Lemkin in 1948.

He used three examples examples when he campaigned for the word genocide to be recognized as a crime in legal terms, The Simele Massacre, the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Prevention_and_Punishment_of_the_Crime_of_Genocide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Lemkin

Son Of A Vidic

Have the US Congress now become moral custodians? From a nation that coined the phrase 'Collateral damage', it's a bit rich isn't it.

Sisko

Doesn't change the facts of what happened to the Armenians. Again the only reason this hasn't been considered official genocide for years is due to America not wanting to piss off the Turks as the need/needed Turkey as an ally. & Turkey knows this and has abused this.

Regarding Turkey getting into the EU, I've no issue with the Turkish people or all this talk about people 'flooding the EU' its just the fact that Turkey is not a modern enlightened fully civilized country yet.

When the goverment bans youtube and has a hard time condeeming the killing of women just because they didnt want to marry who their family told them to marry. I mean no way in hell should a country that still thinks like that be allowed in the EU.

Anyone remember this? Not turkey but similar attidude:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtRVugNjcY

IrishManSaipan

Heres an excellent article on the Armenian genocide.

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?nid=59&page=4

Nodin

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Heres an excellent article on the Armenian genocide.

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?nid=59&page=4

Why are you reproducing that anti-semitic shite?

IrishManSaipan

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100305/pl_nm/us_turkey_usa

The Obama administration on Friday sought to limit fallout from a resolution branding the World War One-era massacre of Armenians by Turkish forces as "genocide," and vowed to stop it from going further in Congress. Turkey was infuriated and recalled its ambassador after a House of Representatives committee on Thursday approved the nonbinding measure condemning killings that took place nearly 100 years ago, in the last days of the Ottoman Empire.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, facing questions about the issue while traveling in Latin America,declared Congress should drop the matter now. "The Obama administration strongly opposes the resolution that was passed by only one vote in the House committee and will work very hard to make sure it does not go to the House floor," she said in Guatemala City.


If one was to deny the Ukrainian and Armenian genocides, nothing happens to them and they remain in government. Yet, if one was to deny the Holocaust, one would lose their job and possibly be thrown in jail. Why?

Nodin

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100305/pl_nm/us_turkey_usa
(..............)thrown in jail. Why?

In message 72, you posted the following

Heres an excellent article on the Armenian genocide.

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?nid=59&page=4

__________________

From the many 'nuggets of wisdom therein', I select these an an example

There is the book "Inner Folds of the Ottoman Revolution" written by Mevlan Zadeh Rifat and published in 1929, the author, a pro-sultan Turk, claims that the "Armenian genocide was decided in August 1910 and October 1911, by a Young Turk committee composed entirely of displaced Balkan Jews in the format of a syncretist Jewish-Muslim sect which included Talaat, Enver, Behaeddin Shakir, Jemal, and Nizam posting as Muslims. It met in the Rothschild-funded Grand Orient loge/hotel of Salonika."

All this according to the percepts of the Talmud, the Satanic Bible of the Jews, which encourages Jews to kill, directly or indirectly, by sayings like: "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless, is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."

So, for the second time, why are you linking this anti-semitic shite?

alex73

Deleted User wrote: »

Shouldn't see why Americans should accuse anyone of Genocide when they are one of the most genocidal countries in the world.
Look at the Native Americans.
Where are they all now? The small minority are put on reservations while the rest were massacred.

America did not appear out of the sky one day, it was formed from the states of european settlers. (including the Irish) so should we in Europe issue an apology to the Native Americans?

The turkey of today is not the same turkey that killed the Armenians, and the America of today did not kill the Nativa americans. We can't change history.

IrishManSaipan

alex73 wrote: »

America did not appear out of the sky one day, it was formed from the states of european settlers. (including the Irish) so should we in Europe issue an apology to the Native Americans?

Nope, but Americans of european descent should. And they will........

The U.S. “apologizes on behalf of the people of the United States to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States,” the statement says, adding that it is committed “to move toward a brighter future where all the people of this land live reconciled as brothers and sisters, and harmoniously steward and protect this land together.”

http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/issues/Native_apology.html

Nodin

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Nope, (................)]

For the third time, why are you linking to anti-semetic nonsense?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64798558&postcount=75

Capt'n Midnight

alex73 wrote: »

We can't change history.

But we repeat the mistakes far too often.

Stalin wanted to kill 59,000 German officers after WWII for war crimes.

Had he done so would it have affected the behaviour of those who have committed war crimes since ?