SSAI FCP Statement

Sparks

From the SSAI website:

Firearms Consultative Panel representative notice.
I represent the SSAI on the shooters panel of the Firearms Consultative Panel and as such I bear responsibility for the vast majority of target shooters in Ireland.

In the early days of the Firearms Consultative Panel much was discussed and co-operated on, however for a long period of time, in spite of calls to convene a meeting to discuss matters of great importance, no shooting panel meeting has been called.

The last meeting of the Shooters panel was in Early December 2008.

The past 12 month period has seen the most radical changes to many aspects of our shooting sports.

The whole transformation of the licensing system has come about without a panel meeting.

Even our appointment with the Minister for Justice was not preceded or followed by a meeting. No cohesive strategy was discussed, no pooling of resources, no advice sought.

I have continued to strive to obtain the best deal possible for all target shooters and have constantly over this time liaised with both the Department of Justice and the Gardaí on their behalf. Good progress has been made on many issues and it is an evolving process.

It is important therefore to note that announcements in the media purporting to be made with the consent of the Firearms Consultative Panel or on behalf of the Firearms Consultative Panel , or creating the impression that some form of consensus has been arrived at by the shooting panel are false.

No actions have been approved by or are the result of consultation and agreement with the SSAI representative. Indeed some of the views expressed and actions taken apparently on behalf of the Shooters Panel and Firearms Consultative Panel, are in my opinion potentially damaging to both good working relationships we have established and our sports of target shooting.

Joe Costello

Chairman SSAI – FCP representative

rrpc

This has been added since:

This statement is a personal statement from Joe Costello and does not

necessarily represent the views of the NGB's within the SSAI

Sparks

Also needs to be noted that 'Shooters Panel' in the statement refers to the sub-set of the FCP made up from the shooting bodies; it doesn't include the DoJ or other non-shooting bodies.

Grizzly 45

Would it be cheeky to ask to exactly what announcements in the media Joe /SSAI is referring to???
What media too?The general media or our shooting media?

Dvs

Having read this statement from Joe Costello,
I am somewhat confused,
I know Joe Costello posts here because he has posted and signed his name to posts, so perhaps he could enlighten us.

As to which announcements in the media purporting to be made with the consent of the Firearms Consultative Panel or on behalf of the Firearms Consultative Panel he is referring to and in which publications, so we can see for ourselves.

Also if he could clarify exactly what views have been expressed and by whom, and what actions have been taken and by whom, apparently on behalf of the Shooters Panel and Firearms Consultative Panel, that are in his opinion potentially damaging to both good working relationships that he and others established and the potential damage he sees to our sports of target shooting.

Dvs.

Mr Mole

I am also a little perplexed by the statement. Insofar as there has been an addendum that it is a personal statement, I would query why it has been placed on the SSAI website at all. Surely a statement on the SSAI website must have the agreement of the SSAI as a whole?

I would be interested in knowing what views and actions taken are potentially damaging, given that those whom are managing the current Firearms Licensing debacle have treated most of us with contempt and distain and with whom there is no working relationship whatsoever.

Skraps1

Mr Mole wrote: »

I am also a little perplexed by the statement. Insofar as there has been an addendum that it is a personal statement, I would query why it has been placed on the SSAI website at all. Surely a statement on the SSAI website must have the agreement of the SSAI as a whole?

I would be interested in knowing what views and actions taken are potentially damaging, given that those whom are managing the current Firearms Licensing debacle have treated most of us with contempt and distain and with whom there is no working relationship whatsoever.

Indeed an interesting statement however.................Mr Costello is the SSAI duly elected representative on the FCP and as such may make any statement that he so desires, the addendum that it is a personal statement clearly is pressure from within a common occurence in the organisation.

As the elected SSAI rep on the FCP he carries the full weight of his own view of any situation that might arise, there is not the luxary to go back to Committee, he carries the can.

I think the statement is one of frustarion, frustration of being used as a pawn in the political game, unfortunatley anyone entering the world of dealing with Justice (what a wierd name for a group that have shown such injustice to the shooting community!) Des Crofton representing one of the largest shooting organisations in the country (as we are reminded of on more occasions that the lotto numbers) has been used and abused by the same department, on the record and back in the courts again!

What is Joe saying well in a round about manner we have been shafted! What's new!

bunny shooter

I know Joe personally and he is an honorable man and has done a lot to help shooters/shooting all for little or no thanks.

Mr Mole

I know Joe as well, and am aware of all he has tried to do for the shooting community. Maybe he can answer for himself.

bunny shooter

Mr Mole wrote: »

.......Maybe he can answer for himself.

Maybe he doesn't want to, here at least ?

Cass

Mr Mole wrote: »

.........and am aware of all he has tried to do ........

And all he has done.

bunny shooter

ezridax wrote: »

And all he has done.

+1

Bananaman

A lot of people seem to be getting different impressions of what was intended by the statement.

I think the best thing is for Joe to fight his own battles and clarify what he meant - be it on boards or elsewhere - that's his own business.

Personally I assume he is just echoing what was said by Des Crofton, namely that they all got their names used (By reference through the FCP) as supporting the Minister in the introduction of the new legislation - when they did not. If that is the case then it is about time and fair dues to him.

B'Man (on location)

Sikamick

I think Joe is entitled to his opinion, as is Des, its called democracy. Either you defend your right within the Constitution to Equality or your don't. And you don't have to be a genius to see that people within the shooting sports, in particular Pistol Target shooting are not been treated Equally by the powers that be.

It's quite clear that the NARGC are not happy with what has happened within the FCP and are going to do something about.

This is my personal opinion and does not
represent the views of the Clubs or Associations I am connected to.

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be getting different impressions of what was intended by the statement.

I think the best thing is for Joe to fight his own battles and clarify what he meant - be it on boards or elsewhere - that's his own business.

Personally I assume he is just echoing what was said by Des Crofton, namely that they all got their names used (By reference through the FCP) as supporting the Minister in the introduction of the new legislation - when they did not. If that is the case then it is about time and fair dues to him.

B'Man (on location)

I think you need to read Sparks post (no. 3 on this thread) properly. Joe is referring to a subset of the FCP, not the FCP itself in the body of that statement.

bunny shooter

After reading his statement slowly I am now writing this slowly so I hope everyone reads the following slowly too (:P)............................................

To me (and this is a personal impression, nothing to do with any organisation I am a member of) I think what he's saying is that the shooting elements on the FCP are/have not been talking to each other and that recent press releases by the biggest shooting organisation, who has realistically nothing to do with target shooting, were made without consultation with the other shooting organisations on the FCP, and that it may damage things for target shooters in the long run

BornToKill

Skraps1 wrote: »

I think the statement is one of frustarion, frustration of being used as a pawn in the political game, unfortunatley anyone entering the world of dealing with Justice (what a wierd name for a group that have shown such injustice to the shooting community!) Des Crofton representing one of the largest shooting organisations in the country (as we are reminded of on more occasions that the lotto numbers) has been used and abused by the same department, on the record and back in the courts again!

What is Joe saying well in a round about manner we have been shafted! What's new!

I think you should try reading it again. I cannot see how your interpretation relates to what is actually written in the statement.

Dvs

bunny shooter wrote: »

After reading his statement slowly I am now writing this slowly so I hope everyone reads the following slowly too (:P)............................................

To me (and this is a personal impression, nothing to do with any organisation I am a member of) I think what he's saying is that the shooting elements on the FCP are/have not been talking to each other and that recent press releases by the biggest shooting organisation, who has realistically nothing to do with target shooting, were made without consultation with the other shooting organisations on the FCP, and that it may damage things for target shooters in the long run

It really makes no difference how slowly you write it, or how slowly anyone else reads it, this is your personal impression and interpretation of a statement made by someone else, Joe Costello made this statement, and therefore only he can clarify the questions that I and others have asked regarding exactly what he means.

I have no doubt that when Joe Costello becomes aware of this thread on the shooting forum, he will be more than happy to explain exactly what he means, I see no point in other posters putting words into his mouth, without giving him the opportunity to respond himself.

Dvs.

Skraps1

BornToKill wrote: »

I think you should try reading it again. I cannot see how your interpretation relates to what is actually written in the statement.

Taken in context of what Des Crofton has put on record, clearly Joe is expressing frustration and has clearly said that statements have been made (more than likley by the Minister) that consultation with the FCP has taken place on the issues, what Joe is saying is that this is not the case.

Now is the time for a high level of activity by the FCP with all the issues that have arisen over the application of the firearms licensing procedures.

The system has proven efficient but the application is back to the dark ages! My own opinion in case there are any questions!

Skraps1

Sikamick wrote: »

I think Joe is entitled to his opinion, as is Des, its called democracy. Either you defend your right within the Constitution to Equality or your don't. And you don't have to be a genius to see that people within the shooting sports, in particular Pistol Target shooting are not been treated Equally by the powers that be.

It's quite clear that the NARGC are not happy with what has happened within the FCP and are going to do something about.

This is my personal opinion and does not

represent the views of the Clubs or Associations I am connected to.

Who cares what you think, Joe Costello is the elected representative of the SSAI on the FCP. What he thinks matters as he is representing the views of all the affiliated bodies of the SSAI. NTSA have their own rep on the FCP so he does not represent their view. I think it is a sad day when the duly elected representative has been forced to amend his statement and make it clear that it is his opinion. What do you think he is doing every time he talks to or meets with Justice, he is making his opinion know, we either have confidence in that or we do not!

bunny shooter

Dvs wrote: »

It really makes no difference how slowly you write it, or how slowly anyone else reads it,............

Get a sense of humour will ya :rolleyes:

Dvs wrote: »

this is your personal impression and interpretation of a statement made by someone else,............

I think I mentioned that in my reply

dCorbus

Joe Costello made this statement, and therefore only he can clarify the questions that I and others have asked regarding exactly what he means

Have you asked him, your NGB, or the SSAI to clarify what exactly JC meant by his statement? If not, maybe a quick email on your part to at least one of them may help answer your questions - boards.ie is perhaps not the most appropriate forum for our shooting organisations to be conducting their / our business directly. So maybe a direct contact on your part may be in order first?

(If you've already written, contacted, or called your NGB and / or the SSAI - or JC directly for that matter, fair enough. If not, could I suggest that should be your best and most appropriate course of action to obtain the responses you require?)

I have no doubt that when Joe Costello becomes aware of this thread on the shooting forum, he will be more than happy to explain exactly what he means

Again, have you asked him?

I fail to understand this commonly-held assumption that the SSAI, JC, or any other shooting NGB should be expected (by you, me, or anyone else) to conduct their (i.e. our) official business on boards.ie or any other internet forum? This is the shooting subforum of boards.ie - It is not the bulletin board of the SSAI or any other organisation, and I am surprised that you do seem to be expecting (or perhaps seem to be even demanding, from the tone of some of the earlier posts) a response.

That said, JC may post a reply or he may not (I'm guessing he won't as he hasn't posted in quite some time AFAIK) - but that's his business and I for one do not expect or demand that he do so (that's not mine or any other posters place to do so IMHO).

(And yes, to lay my cards on the table: I too know Joe - a very fine and hardworking gentleman and shooter - I partly owe him my initial friendly and supportive introduction to shooting, to be honest.)