Licensing laws

fontanalis

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Ideally, there would be feck-all "opening hours", with places open as needs be.

But lots of Irish people have a stupid attitude to drink......."last orders" is a call to buy 2 or 3, so as to stock up, and some people view a night out by how little they can remember the following morning.

I'd love to see a responsible attitude to drink in this country.

Exactly, and another thing when older people complain about young people being crazy they should remember that the idiotic attitude to alcohol has always existed in Ireland.

djpbarry

syklops wrote: »

Alcohol is already taxed up to the hilt.

The new reduced rate of excise on spirits is €31.13 per litre of alcohol – that works out at about 47 cents per shot. Hardly ‘taxed up to the hilt’, considering people will pay up to, what, €5 or €6 for a shot? Especially after they’ve already had a few.

syklops wrote: »

As for the comment put the proceeds towards nocturnal law enforcement., thats a phrase that gets used anytime a new tax is talked about. Like water rates which will go to the upkeep and maintenance of our water system. If people honestly believed that is where the money would go, then I think most people would agree with it. Unfortunately it wont go to that, it will go into the never-ending blackhole which is Fianna Fails finances.

All of it?

syklops wrote: »

I live in the czech republic where many bars and clubs have 24 hour licensing, and most others have late opening(3 or 4), yet you do not see hoards of young people drunk. You do see people drunk, but its a different kind of drunkenness. Its more of a "Sh*t Im wasted Im going home", not a "How loud can I sing or How much of a flippin eejit can i make myself look". One of the reasons i believe for this is the very visible police presence.

Possibly (an increased Garda presence would certainly not be a bad thing, but that costs money), but I think it’s also a fundamental difference in attitude towards alcohol – Europeans (generally speaking) tend to drink small amounts frequently, whereas British/Irish people tend to drink large amounts infrequently.

djpbarry

fontanalis wrote: »

Exactly, and another thing when older people complain about young people being crazy they should remember that the idiotic attitude to alcohol has always existed in Ireland.

Maybe, but the volume of alcohol being consumed has increased drastically in recent times, possibly driven by higher incomes. Increased consumption among women is probably a factor too.

jayboi

fontanalis wrote: »

Exactly, and another thing when older people complain about young people being crazy they should remember that the idiotic attitude to alcohol has always existed in Ireland.

+1 It really needs to be from top down, parents have a role to play in changing their childrens attitudes to drink when there young, its with their money that most children by their first drinks.

I’d also like to see some real efforts by the government to tackle the issue not just increasing the tax or putting a stupid warning on the bottle.

Would it be crazy to teach children the effects in secondary or even primary? not to sound harsh or insensitive but a guest speaker who has been effected by alcoholism in some way, they say children are most impressionable when their young!

I dont think its possible or a good idea to tackle the opening hours without tackling the drinking culture first!

fontanalis

djpbarry wrote: »

Maybe, but the volume of alcohol being consumed has increased drastically in recent times, possibly driven by higher incomes. Increased consumption among women is probably a factor too.

Ah yes The Desperate Housewives effect, if a woamn said she'd a bottle of wine on a friday no-one would bat an eye lid where if a fella said he'd a six pack of scrumpy jack he'd be a wino (over exaggerating I know).

Liam Byrne

fontanalis wrote: »

Exactly, and another thing when older people complain about young people being crazy they should remember that the idiotic attitude to alcohol has always existed in Ireland.

It seems to have, alright.....I remember being slagged off when I had no interest in drinking at age 16, or getting hammered at my debs.

I think - in hindsight - it was simply that my dad did a damn good job at giving me a sensible attitude to drink; he didn't care when I had my first one, as long as he bought it, and he always saw getting tipsy as a side-effect of a good night, not the aim.

So yes, while there have always been some people in the past with ridiculous attitudes to alcohol, there have also been ones who hadn't, and who have had more cop-on and respect for themselves without a pathetic urge for "bravado" and to fall for the ridiculous "pissed = cool / sensible = bo-ring" fallacy.

And it would often be said that some people in the past had ridiculous attitudes to sex or the environment or religion or gays or whatever, but the new enlightened generation have improved on that......

......I wonder why they don't apply the same enlightenment to alcohol ?

bog master

Change comes slowly but we must push for it. For any of the older readers here, think about the Holy Hour in Dublin, Sunday closing between 2-4, and the ridiculous Sunday evening closing time of half 10. For you younger ones, ask us auld ones.

Can well remember back in late 80's, going out with herself on the Sunday, get the children settled, baby sitter in, and off to the pub, maybe getting there 9 to half 9. Enjoying ourselves, 2 pints gone maybe 3, and time being called at 10:30!

Used to do shift work when in Dublin, again back in the dark ages. Finish at 2pm, could I get a pint to unwind before getting the bus home? NO WAY

The government (s) allow us to have children and rear them,possibly the greatest responsibility of all, drive a car with minimal training, declare our own income to Revenue for the self employed with for the most part non existent auditing, yet seem so concerned that on certain days or times we cannot purchase alcohol!

And in one way, I hope in Limerick they get the ban or whatever overturned, for the sake of progress,yet on the other hand, why should those in Limerick benefit while those of us in the rest of the country have to abide by an archaic law?

Davidth88

I have long believed that the crazy drinking culture here ( and in the UK ) are a by product of the licensing laws ( in the IIRC UK they were brought in during the 1st WW to make sure that munitions workers turned up , and we were promised they would be repealed after the war , that never happened ).

I travel quite a bit , I have always been amused that never mind what time you get to Dublin airport ( could be 5-6am ) there are people sculling pints, it's almost like it's a challenge , it's available therefore we must drink.

Good Friday is a strange one here , when I moved here I didn't know about this until my first Easter here , but it's amazing how even a moderate drinker such as myself gags for a pint when it's not available . I remember clearly Sundays in the UK when pubs closed at 2 and didn't open until 7 .

What has happened in the UK since licensing laws were relaxed , does anyone actually have any figures as regards drink related crime ?

My opinion for what it's worth, relax the drinking laws , however enforce the ' we will not serve you if you are drunk rule ' , you rarely see this being enforced and often see people barely able to stand yet ordering more.
Now the problem that has of course is how to judge/enforce without resulting violence , or litigation ( imagine the case ' he refused me a pint blah blah blah ' ) Ill leave that to greater minds than mine right now

zootroid

Just thought of something there, if the Limerick vintners are successful in getting the city's pubs opened up on good Friday, it's going to be one hell of annoyance to the rest of the country who can't go to the pub. Perhaps it will put enough pressure to scrap this ridiculous law.

Ste.phen

Nonsense: we'll just have HUGE national party in Limerick, the likes of which would make the rowdiest St Patricks' Day look like a church picnic.

jennyjest

At least there is two days in the year when men dont roll drunk out of the pub and go and terrorise their families.

syklops

jennyjest wrote: »

At least there is two days in the year when men dont roll drunk out of the pub and go and terrorise their families.

Because only men get drunk/get abusive/terrorise family members. :rolleyes:

Maybe its 2 days a year when these "men" stay at home and terrorise their families all day, instead of just in the evening.

walrusgumble

Its a joke. Nearly every season, league of ireland soccer clubs have played games on good friday. Granted, the bar stool premership supporters don't come and granted, begrudly the quality, bar one or two teams aint great, there was no whinging about no pubs been open for the game.

Yet when the rich boys of rugby see this, its a travesity.:rolleyes:Ok it maybe it I would bring more money into the city, and thats great, but one day lads, jesus. If they were that concerned (and genuine that it is) they could always fix the game for Thursday or Saturday? like we see with Sky Sports matches etc

One day lads, calm down. Couldn't the supporters just bring their supplies to the game, as its one of the few sports that allow drinking in the stands (great)

Anyway, couldn't they just treat it like a family day out and bring the kids

Anyway, what are ye doing drinking, its lent ffs

mayordenis

walrusgumble wrote: »

Its a joke. Nearly every season, league of ireland soccer clubs have played games on good friday. Granted, the bar stool premership supporters don't come and granted, begrudly the quality, bar one or two teams aint great, there was no whinging about no pubs been open for the game.

Yet when the rich boys of rugby see this, its a travesity.:rolleyes:Ok it maybe it I would bring more money into the city, and thats great, but one day lads, jesus. If they were that concerned (and genuine that it is) they could always fix the game for Thursday or Saturday? like we see with Sky Sports matches etc

One day lads, calm down. Couldn't the supporters just bring their supplies to the game, as its one of the few sports that allow drinking in the stands (great)

Anyway, couldn't they just treat it like a family day out and bring the kids

Anyway, what are ye doing drinking, its lent ffs

So as a non catholic, who doesn't have kids, and actually will be in work most of the day, why exactly shouldn't I be able to purchase alcohol?

jennyjest

mayordenis wrote: »

So as a non catholic, who doesn't have kids, and actually will be in work most of the day, why exactly shouldn't I be able to purchase alcohol?

Jayus two days out of 365 in the year ? How desparate can anyone be fpr booze ? Gp to off licence on thrs night buy 30 or 40 bottles of booze. Why do people ahve to be such drama queens about two days when the pubs stayed closed ? Post offices close for 1and a half days each week, banks for two dys each week !
Why cant people show a sense of proportion ?

syklops

jennyjest wrote: »

Jayus two days out of 365 in the year ? How desparate can anyone be fpr booze ? Gp to off licence on thrs night buy 30 or 40 bottles of booze. Why do people ahve to be such drama queens about two days when the pubs stayed closed ? Post offices close for 1and a half days each week, banks for two dys each week !
Why cant people show a sense of proportion ?

Dont get me started on banks. Such a shame the only one that opened on a saturday left Ireland(HBOS).

walrusgumble

mayordenis wrote: »

So as a non catholic, who doesn't have kids, and actually will be in work most of the day, why exactly shouldn't I be able to purchase alcohol?

So we pander the a tiny minority,like we always seem to do:rolleyes:? THere are more than 3 million to consider also

Good Friday is one of the most important Christian holidays in a prodominat Christian country, the least that can be done is close down. Whats your stance on the wearing of Burkas in Ireland?

Out of interest, what's the story with the Protestant Branch? I would imagine the fun loving Free Presbytarians have a similar ban?

With regard to yourself, like you I will be working and have no kids, and I am not religious, but I will stack up like others, go to a friends home and drink (maybe re-inact the Last Supper for the craic)

Do you go to the pub EVERY Friday?

ednwireland

i'll be working good friday (daytime ) no time to go to the pub

syklops

walrusgumble wrote: »

So we pander the a tiny minority,like we always seem to do:rolleyes:? THere are more than 3 million to consider also

Good Friday is one of the most important Christian holidays in a prodominat Christian country, the least that can be done is close down. Whats your stance on the wearing of Burkas in Ireland?

Out of interest, what's the story with the Protestant Branch? I would imagine the fun loving Free Presbytarians have a similar ban?

With regard to yourself, like you I will be working and have no kids, and I am not religious, but I will stack up like others, go to a friends home and drink (maybe re-inact the Last Supper for the craic)

Do you go to the pub EVERY Friday?

Are you saying there are 3 million practising Catholics in this country?

I doubt it.

anymore

The difference between A&E in Limerick being very busy on Good Fri night/Sat and being reasonably quiet is whether pubs are allowed to open or not. Figure it out yourself.

djpbarry

jennyjest wrote: »

Jayus two days out of 365 in the year ? How desparate can anyone be fpr booze ? Gp to off licence on thrs night buy 30 or 40 bottles of booze. Why do people ahve to be such drama queens about two days when the pubs stayed closed ?

A friend of mine, who I have not seen in some time, will be in Dublin this Good Friday on a work-related trip. He gets in early on the 2nd and flies out again on the morning of the 3rd. We had arranged to meet up in a pub on the night of the 2nd, until we realised we couldn’t because it’s Good Friday. We couldn’t settle on an alternative plan for logistical reasons, so we had to postpone our meeting until the next time we happen to be in the same city.

Perhaps you would care to explain why our plans should be interfered with by a belief system that neither of us subscribe to?

walrusgumble wrote: »

So we pander the a tiny minority,like we always seem to do:rolleyes:?

The number of people in this country who oppose the ban on the selling of alcohol on Good Friday only represent a tiny minority of the population? I doubt it.

walrusgumble wrote: »

THere are more than 3 million to consider also

There are more than 3 million practicing Catholics in Ireland? Really?

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

The difference between A&E in Limerick being very busy on Good Fri night/Sat and being reasonably quiet is whether pubs are allowed to open or not. Figure it out yourself.

Pubs in Limerick are treating A&E patients?

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

Pubs in Limerick are treating A&E patients?

No they just provide the environment and conditions for all those alcohol induced injuries that clog up A & E's every weekend and the taxpayer picks up the tab !

anymore

[QUOTE

=djpbarry;64848342]A friend of mine, who I have not seen in some time, will be in Dublin this Good Friday on a work-related trip. He gets in early on the 2nd and flies out again on the morning of the 3rd. We had arranged to meet up in a pub on the night of the 2nd, until we realised we couldn’t because it’s Good Friday. We couldn’t settle on an alternative plan for logistical reasons, so we had to postpone our meeting until the next time we happen to be in the same city.

.Ah for Gods sake you can do better this surely ! A meeting cancelled because pubs are closed ?
Have you heard of cafes, restaurants ?
Good Friday night has actually turned into quite a busy night for businnesses that do not rely exclusively on alcohol.

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

.Ah for Gods sake you can do better this surely ! A meeting cancelled because pubs are closed ?
Have you heard of cafes, restaurants ?

That's not the point, but do feel free to suggest a cafe that will open at 10.30pm to accommodate an individual who doesn't drink tea or coffee, or a restaurant that will seat two people who don't intend to eat.

We wanted to go the pub to have a drink, not a cafe to have a coffee or a restaurant to have a meal - why should we be prevented from doing so?

Sulmac

walrusgumble wrote: »

So we pander the a tiny minority,like we always seem to do:rolleyes:?

Just because a "majority" exists (I seriously doubt a majority of Irish people nowadays think Good Friday is all that important), that doesn't give it the right to take away the rights and freedoms of the minority.

By that logic, segregation in the US was acceptable since black people were a minority.

I know I'm being a bit over-dramatic here, but the point still stands.

who is this

jennyjest wrote: »

Jayus two days out of 365 in the year ? How desparate can anyone be fpr booze ? Gp to off licence on thrs night buy 30 or 40 bottles of booze. Why do people ahve to be such drama queens about two days when the pubs stayed closed ? Post offices close for 1and a half days each week, banks for two dys each week !
Why cant people show a sense of proportion ?

That's not the point. You just don't get it. I don't drink often at all. The odds that a day I would want to, would happen to be a good Friday are rather low. The point is, the State has no right to say that I can't just because its "special" for someone else. The State has absolutely no legitimate interest in me buying alcohol on good Friday. Only from a Christian point of view would it have some interest, and that is not legit, because that would constitute endorsing a religion, which is constitutionally prohibited.

Banks and post offices can do what they want - literally. They close because they choose to. I would have no objection if every off licence and pub chose to close on good Friday. But they wouldn't. If they did, no law would be required to force them to.

Should we prohibit everyone from eating during Ramadan from sunrise to sunset, just because that's the beliefs of some?

Why is it not simply enough for you to do what you want on the day, and I do what I want? Preventing me from buying alcohol doesn't make me "respect" the day, it makes me resent it. If you (or anyone) truely considers buying alcohol on good Friday to be disrespectful, banning it doesn't help - the mere desire of people to do so, is disrespectful and you won't change that. You're just fooling yourself.

thebman

anymore wrote: »

The difference between A&E in Limerick being very busy on Good Fri night/Sat and being reasonably quiet is whether pubs are allowed to open or not. Figure it out yourself.

Point being?

Maybe if the state wasn't trying to baby sit people they'd actually think before they drink.

Sulmac

From today's Irish Times:

Good Friday match discussed

JIMMY WALSH

Wed, Mar 10, 2010

SEANAD: SHARP DIFFERENCES of opinion were expressed on whether pubs in Limerick should be allowed to open for the Munster-Leinster rugby match on Good Friday, April 2nd.

Joe O’Toole (Ind) urged that the law be changed, saying the net effect of this would be that church-goers and believers could abstain from alcohol on Good Friday on the direction of their church while atheists, agnostics, sceptics, heretics and others could imbibe should they wish to do.

“Everyone’s a winner. Free will prevails, the Church-State separation is maintained. We render to Munster the things that are Munster’s and to God the things that are God’s. We save jobs. The economy gains.”

Ivana Bacik (Lab) said it was no longer acceptable to hold to some sort of quaint notion of Good Friday as being a day on which alcohol could not be consumed. “Let those of us who don’t believe that Good Friday is a particularly special day choose to do what we want to do in pubs and clubs.”

Ann Ormonde (FF) said it should be possible to amend the law governing the sale of alcohol to enable pubs to open on Good Friday for special events while maintaining the values of that day.

David Norris (Ind) said it was outrageous to schedule a rugby match on Good Friday. Sunday had once been reverenced here and was now the biggest commercial day because we had become the lackeys of the British multinationals. He was not going to join the populist rush to seek the desecration of Good Friday by the opening of pubs.

Eoghan Harris (Ind) said there was something odd and wrong about having a rugby match on Good Friday in a country where every corner, churchyard, village and town was impregnated with Christian symbolism.

Seanad leader Donie Cassidy said he did not think anything, whether it be the television rights of a foreign TV station, or whatever, should interfere with the way we commemorated “the crucifixion of the Good Lord.”

© 2010 The Irish Times

Interesting to see where some Senators stand on the issue...

Carawaystick

could someone explain why on a day that Commemorates some Italians killing a Palestinian we can't buy a pint or have a decent meal in this country?


What next places not serving certain types of meat on ash wednesday?
just cos a bunch of rapists and their apologisers say so?
If it's so important to this god fella why not stop us drinking himself? Oh yeah, cos it's a fairy tale.

Jennyjest, could you list the restaurants that'll be open for business on the 2nd April?
I've worked in Dublin city centre many good fridays and could never get a decent hot sit down meal at lunchtime.
It's not a public holiday despite the public sector shutting down and those of lucky enough to have a job in the private sector work on.