Licensing laws

Essexboy

Theer are two issues here

1. should pubs open on Good Friday?
2. Should Limerick pubs open on next Good Friday?

Answers

1. Yes
2. No.

The people who want to open Limerick pubs are those who have brought Ireland to its knees, "sure if some one can make a few bob out of isn't it OK", short-term profit trumps all other considerations.

And hasn't our murder capital more important matters to worry about?

who is this

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's not a public holiday despite the public sector shutting down and those of lucky enough to have a job in the private sector work on.

Is it not? I thought as much. Which is part of the reason I'd most likely accept (not favour, just accept) retaining the Christmas Day prohibition - at least people are actually entitled to the day off.

Also Christmas has significant secular celebrations. I celebrate it, just not the Christian aspects.

Carawaystick

who is this wrote: »

Is it not? I thought as much. Which is part of the reason I'd most likely accept (not favour, just accept) retaining the Christmas Day prohibition - at least people are actually entitled to the day off.

Also Christmas has significant secular celebrations. I celebrate it, just not the Christian aspects.

the nine public holidays here are NYD; St Pat; Easter Mon; first Mondays in May, Jun, Aug; last Mon in Oct; and Xmas day and St stephen's.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/public-holidays-in-ireland

zootroid

Essexboy wrote: »

Theer are two issues here

1. should pubs open on Good Friday?
2. Should Limerick pubs open on next Good Friday?

Answers

1. Yes
2. No.

The people who want to open Limerick pubs are those who have brought Ireland to its knees, "sure if some one can make a few bob out of isn't it OK", short-term profit trumps all other considerations.

And hasn't our murder capital more important matters to worry about?

Surely the yes to question 1 should automatically lead you to answer yes to question 2?

And I'm not quite sure I follow your arguement in relation to that, about the short term profit. I hardly think you can link the banking crisis to a few publicans wishing to open to facilitate a rugby match. Nor would they be any more concerned with the murder rate than any other citizen.

I am hoping pubs are allowed up for a couple of reasons:

1) It would show that there is still an iota of common sense in this country
2) It might help change the law permanently

walrusgumble

syklops wrote: »

Are you saying there are 3 million practising Catholics in this country?

I doubt it.

I said Christian not Catholic!. Do we even have 3 million of the Roman Catholic faith in the country?

Secondly, whether its 3 million or 2.34 million, the majority are Christians and do at some point practice their faiths.

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

That's not the point, but do feel free to suggest a cafe that will open at 10.30pm to accommodate an individual who doesn't drink tea or coffee, or a restaurant that will seat two people who don't intend to eat.

We wanted to go the pub to have a drink, not a cafe to have a coffee or a restaurant to have a meal - why should we be prevented from doing so?

I am sorry but you are coming across as being melodramatic now ! I dont know of any cafe at all that will not serve beverages other than tea or coffee. Lets be hinest you are overdramatising this to infer of meetings that cant be held because pubs are closed.
I suppose you never considered bring him home ?
How vital is alcohol to this meeting ?

anymore

walrusgumble wrote: »

I said Christian not Catholic!. Do we even have 3 million of the Roman Catholic faith in the country?

Secondly, whether its 3 million or 2.34 million, the majority are Christians and do at some point practice their faiths.

Yes there are over three million catholics in Ireland.

walrusgumble

djpbarry wrote: »

A friend of mine, who I have not seen in some time, will be in Dublin this Good Friday on a work-related trip. He gets in early on the 2nd and flies out again on the morning of the 3rd. We had arranged to meet up in a pub on the night of the 2nd, until we realised we couldn’t because it’s Good Friday. We couldn’t settle on an alternative plan for logistical reasons, so we had to postpone our meeting until the next time we happen to be in the same city.

Perhaps you would care to explain why our plans should be interfered with by a belief system that neither of us subscribe to?
The number of people in this country who oppose the ban on the selling of alcohol on Good Friday only represent a tiny minority of the population? I doubt it.
There are more than 3 million practicing Catholics in Ireland? Really?

Christ the second person. Read carefully , in my previous post!!!! I said Christian ie. Catholic, Anglo, Presybatrian, Methodist, ettc. I did not say "CATHOLIC"!!

They are only around 4.5. million in 26 Counties, and I doubt there are 3 million born to the RC faith

I am referring to there being 3 million who are CHristiain. No reference is intended by me to specifically refer to one particular faith. so dont go jumping into conclusions. The RC is not the only Christian faith that share similar attitudes towards this

Like I say, if it wasn't the Rugger heads moaning about not being able to watch a match without need for Reg, Geg, Decko whatever being able to get a few scoops of Heino before the game, the council wouldn't be so concerned

By the Way, personally, I would be more than happy for pubs to be open, even on religious days, but as they are, I see no problem with them close

walrusgumble

Carawaystick wrote: »

could someone explain why on a day that Commemorates some Italians killing a Palestinian we can't buy a pint or have a decent meal in this country?


What next places not serving certain types of meat on ash wednesday?
just cos a bunch of rapists and their apologisers say so?
If it's so important to this god fella why not stop us drinking himself? Oh yeah, cos it's a fairy tale.

Jennyjest, could you list the restaurants that'll be open for business on the 2nd April?
I've worked in Dublin city centre many good fridays and could never get a decent hot sit down meal at lunchtime.
It's not a public holiday despite the public sector shutting down and those of lucky enough to have a job in the private sector work on.

you must have a very bad memory. Pretty much nearly no resturant would stop you from eating meat on Good Friday, the chippers will be open; you can get your super mac, so never mind Ash Wednesday. Here's a solution, book in advance!

I believe the other Christian churches also celebrate mosts of the dates that the RC or Rapists as you call them, so its not exclusive to RC

Nearly all the resturants (going by other years, tend to be open - Butchers and all will be supplying the usual array of fish and fish type food and they WILL also sell MEAT)

is god a fairytale? maybe he is, we wont know till we die. just don't get all relgious and stuff when ya get old;) By the way what's Ash Wednesday got to do with himself fasting and dying on that day - crazy stories fair enough, made ones they were when they decided to "reinact" his deads, for some, pitty they did not crucify themselves while they were at it - oh wait - The Crusades"

According to the calender (no not the religious) Good Friday is a holiday in Ireland & UK (but ya, the private sector tends to work)

Again as I asked earlier and as asked in other part of this site, for all the relgious liberators and non believers, anyone have any problems with women wearing Burkas?

anymore

Perhaps Good Friday night can be used to film scenes for tourist promotions. It can depict an Ireland where citizens and visitiors alike can walk peacably aoround inner city areas without the fear of being hit by projectile vomiting or being engulfed by streams of urine flowing through our main streets. When it is possible to into a late night chipper without being threatened, jostled by the usual moronic incoherent drunks or even beaten up. maybe we should think of extending the ban on pubs to more nights ?

zootroid

walrusgumble wrote: »

you must have a very made memory. Pretty much nearly no resturant would stop you from eating meat on Good Friday, the chippers will be open; you can get your super mac, so never mind Ash Wednesday. Here's a solution, book in advance!

I believe the other Christian churches also celebrate mosts of the dates that the RC or Rapists as you call them, so its not exclusive to RC

Nearly all the resturants (going by other years, tend to be open - Butchers and all will be supplying the usual array of fish and fish type food)

is god a fairytale? maybe he is, we wont know till we die. just don't get all relgious and stuff when ya get old;)

According to the calender (no not the religious) Good Friday is a holiday in Ireland & UK (but ya, the private sector tends to work)

Again as I asked earlier and as asked in other part of this site, for all the relgious liberators and non believers, anyone have any problems with women wearing Burkas?

Not really a holiday then, is it? If you have to work, how can you call it a holiday?

In any case, why should one persons religious beliefs infringe on my lifestyle? Religious beliefs that have been made into law? And surely if you are such a practicing catholic you do not need there to be a law to stop you drinking on Good Friday, your own will and faith will allow you to abstain?

With regards to the argument about how many Catholics there are in Ireland, the last census states there are approx 3.6 million

http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/PDR%202006%20Tables%2031-40.pdf

It also states there are 180,000 people who have no religion. A size-able minority.

With regards to your last question, I don't really have a issue with it, as long as practical considerations are taken into account (security issues etc)

djpbarry

anymore wrote: »

I am sorry but you are coming across as being melodramatic now ! I dont know of any cafe at all that will not serve beverages other than tea or coffee.

Do you know of a nice cafe that will be open at 10.30pm on a Friday night? And I say “nice” because I’m not really interested in meeting anyone by the deli counter in a convenience store.

anymore wrote: »

I suppose you never considered bring him home ?

You’ll notice that I said other options were not feasible for logistical reasons. Simply put, by the time we both finished work and he got to my place, it would have been time for him to leave again, so we had planned to compromise and meet halfway instead.

anymore wrote: »

How vital is alcohol to this meeting ?

I never said it was vital, but given that pretty much every cafe in the city would be closed by the time we will be free on that day (about 10.30pm), pubs were really the only option. We could meet in a restaurant if we were planning on having a meal, which we were not. However, it’s something of a moot point - many restaurants do not open on Good Friday because it’s not worth their while if they can’t serve alcohol.

Now, care to answer the question – why should we be so put out by a faith that neither of us practice?

anymore wrote: »

Yes there are over three million catholics in Ireland.

How many practicing Catholics are there? Furthermore, how many of that 3 million odd would object to alcohol being served on Good Friday?

anymore wrote: »

Perhaps Good Friday night can be used to film scenes for tourist promotions. It can depict an Ireland where citizens and visitiors alike can walk peacably aoround inner city areas without the fear of being hit by projectile vomiting or being engulfed by streams of urine flowing through our main streets. When it is possible to into a late night chipper without being threatened, jostled by the usual moronic incoherent drunks or even beaten up. maybe we should think of extending the ban on pubs to more nights ?

Based on my experience, a sizeable number of visitors partake in the revelry. Maybe you shouldn’t go out at night if you find it so disagreeable? I (generally) avoid Dublin City on a Saturday night because I find it a bit too manic for my taste, but I don’t really feel the need to propose bans to encourage people to behave as I see fit.

JustinDee

There is just too much evidence (road deaths/collisions/violent incidents on streets etc) to show that Irish drinkers are not responsible enough for 24 hr licensing.

walrusgumble

zootroid wrote: »

Not really a holiday then, is it? If you have to work, how can you call it a holiday?

In any case, why should one persons religious beliefs infringe on my lifestyle? Religious beliefs that have been made into law? And surely if you are such a practicing catholic you do not need there to be a law to stop you drinking on Good Friday, your own will and faith will allow you to abstain?

With regards to the argument about how many Catholics there are in Ireland, the last census states there are approx 3.6 million

http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/PDR%202006%20Tables%2031-40.pdf

It also states there are 180,000 people who have no religion. A size-able minority

With regards to your last question, I don't really have a issue with it, as long as practical considerations are taken into account (security issues etc)

Fair point on the law thing considering there was a Supreme Court Case in the 1970's/80's dealing with the sale of meat related to the Jewish faith (forget how to spell the name).

Sorry about the bit about how many Catholics there were, was not edited when yourself and other poster had clearly identified the figures of the RC Club.

Have you read my other posts, I said that I personally am not religious, but at least have a deceny to abde and accept and recongnise the majority law that the sale of alcohol is banned on one of THE most important dates in the Chrisitian year. I don't go "what about me?" Just get on with it, I'm sure you don't believe the world evolves around you - and Peace by with you. Don't worry the Spanish Inquistion won't come and burn you at a stake if you "break the sacret laws", its not 1930's Legion of Mary anymore (thank Goodness)

By the way, there is no law stopping you for drinking on Good Friday, it just stops you from purchasing same. Keep an eye out from some pubs / clubs who HAVE in the past opened up at 12 night!!!! (even check outside Dublin, it does happen;))

180,000 vs what 3.6 ish, hardly a "size-able minority"?300,000 to half a million, then your talking. Sure some big big towns/small Cities contain 180,000 yet when it comes to government funding, they are forgotten about (unless in or around the Dublin region or one or two days before an election) Still it is worth looking at, reviewing considering the laws that they are , are very old. But still, can you trust Irish people with drink?

I am sure your life style will survive one night, simply out of interest, do you go out every friday night, if not, whats so special about good friday (by the way, no one is questioning your freedom and free will) What do you do on Christmas Day?

With regard to the you can't call it a holiday, ya, thats true, but sure, Look at St Stephens Day (or Boxing Day to suit others) or New Years Eve & Day or Paddy's Day,aren't they holidays? Don't people work on those days and nights? (now if I have to give you examples of same, which I doubt btw, I would sincerely call on you to get out more) Someone has to man the boiler and lighthouse, boss

I am glad you have a decent opinon about the burkas, but the security concerns, respectively, is a wee bit ignorant and casts all muslims in one. I think burka or no burka the actors of horror etc would have carried out their deeds in those countries regarldess of what they wear

who is this

JustinDee wrote: »

There is just too much evidence (road deaths/collisions/violent incidents on streets etc) to show that Irish drinkers are not responsible enough for 24 hr licensing.

That's an absurd argument. It relies on the completely unproven assumption that increased licensing hours will worsen the situation, which you haven't demonstrated.
Not only have you not proven causation, you haven't even demonstrated a link between the two. The only link which is beyond needing demonstration, is the link between those, and the availability at all of alcohol.

Show me that only selling it at certain hours ameliorates the situation in any significant way, and I'll agree with you.

who is this

walrusgumble wrote: »

180,000 vs what 3.6 ish, hardly a "size-able minority"?300,000 to half a million, then your talking. Sure some big big towns/small Cities contain 180,000 yet when it comes to government funding, they are forgotten about (unless in or around the Dublin region or one or two days before an election) Still it is worth looking at, reviewing considering the laws that they are , are very old. But still, can you trust Irish people with drink?

You assume that every one of those is devout enough to support banning the sale of alcohol for it, fully understanding what that means: that people either lose their licence (being closed down in the case of an off licence), get significant fines, or jail time, just because they sold alcohol on a "special" day. Several people who I've spoken to about this reconsidered their views once I reminded them what prohibition means.

. And no matter how insignificant it is, it's still unacceptable because it sets a precedent. If its okay to force Christian beliefs on the whole of the population for this, why not for everything else?

fontanalis

who is this wrote: »

You assume that every one of those is devout enough to support banning the sale of alcohol for it. And no matter how insignificant it is, it's still unacceptable because it sets a precedent. If its okay to force Christian beliefs on the whole of the population for this, why not for everything else?

it's not even a belief, if the pubs are allowed to sell acohol the self righteous can still get into heaven by not drinking, it does not effect them.

walrusgumble

who is this wrote: »

You assume that every one of those is devout enough to support banning the sale of alcohol for it. And no matter how insignificant it is, it's still unacceptable because it sets a precedent. If its okay to force Christian beliefs on the whole of the population for this, why not for everything else?

ya I suppose.

But other than that, what are you talking about. I don't assume. Never a good idea. If ya bothered to read the posts, I try to be balanced - so please don't go off on one and Wrongly assume I am saying one thing that you wished I said so you can come in with an argument to suit yourself! At least wait until you read it in full, thanks

I am merely puting an argument/thought together, like you. This is a debate after all. I don't know what others think, like yourself. By the way I am for an open and ever changing Irish society.

But this all really boils down to a few rugger heads who want to open up because of the big match. THey probably would not give a fiddlers if that was the last Good Friday that they ever play a game. THey must not be too bothered about going to the game if they can't have a few scoops ( I must admit, whilst I follow and like Rugby, I am biased on the basis of being at league of ireland soccer match on that day and not a pip or whinge is made about lack of watering holes)

That argument is all fine and well, but remember on these boards, the amount of complaints there were when the now defunct reserve gardaí made headlines over one or lads who wanted to wear their head pieces (what are they called?) Now I am not saying you were for / against, but remember all the this is a Christian land etc?

I don't think you "are forcing" on anyone? Those beliefs have been relied upon, accpeted and taken by the Irish for generations. Sometimes, as we have seen over the decades, the lay people are more dangerous than the clergy. Now of course, this have changed and attitudes have moved on eg Shopping on Sunday, lack of presence of getting the auld ashes on the forehead on Ash Wednesday .

You know full well majority rules. Each country is based on a set of principles, this country like others, is , supposedly based on Christian beliefs (when it suits it ie charity, decency ,no judgemental) If you don't like it, do something about it seek to change the laws, if not put up or shut up. THe Constitution tells us everyone is equal before the law ( in reality thats nonsense ,sadly),

Instead of bashing the church, actually sit down and ponder why the churchs (lets not get into the Anglican v Catholic powers, and sectarian troubles of 300 years to present,wrong post) got their power in the first place. THe RC did not plounder the country (despite current popular belief) they got their status because the people accepted and wanted it. Of course those days are now over, and people are open minded, which is great.

Incidently, what is the view of the Protestant faith on this issue? Do Northern Ireland, England (some how I doubt), France, Spain, Italy governments ban sale of booze on this day? Did they ever and what about now?

syklops

Incidently, what is the view of the Protestant faith on this issue? Do Northern Ireland, England (some how I doubt), France, Spain, Italy governments ban sale of booze on this day? Did they ever and what about now?

The thing is though its not even a catholic thing. Its an Irish thing. No other christian county bans the sale of Alcohol on Good Friday(I am not sure about muslim countries). Even in Rome, Alcohol is still on sale on Good Friday. You can go to mass, and then stop for a quick one on the way home.

anymore

The knowledge that there are two days when the greedy publicans are not making money is sheer pleasure. :)

dogbert27

anymore wrote: »

The knowledge that there are two days when the greedy publicans are not making money is sheer pleasure. :)

Yeah way to go in sticking it to the man :rolleyes:

anymore

Oops the gremlins seem to have got at my post !
[.

zootroid

walrusgumble wrote: »

Fair point on the law thing considering there was a Supreme Court Case in the 1970's/80's dealing with the sale of meat related to the Jewish faith (forget how to spell the name).

Sorry about the bit about how many Catholics there were, was not edited when yourself and other poster had clearly identified the figures of the RC Club.

Have you read my other posts, I said that I personally am not religious, but at least have a deceny to abde and accept and recongnise the majority law that the sale of alcohol is banned on one of THE most important dates in the Chrisitian year. I don't go "what about me?" Just get on with it, I'm sure you don't believe the world evolves around you - and Peace by with you. Don't worry the Spanish Inquistion won't come and burn you at a stake if you "break the sacret laws", its not 1930's Legion of Mary anymore (thank Goodness)

We have no choice but to abide by the law, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. We can protest so that we can have it changed.

By the way, there is no law stopping you for drinking on Good Friday, it just stops you from purchasing same. Keep an eye out from some pubs / clubs who HAVE in the past opened up at 12 night!!!! (even check outside Dublin, it does happen;))

Hardly an enjoyable evening, going out that late looking for a pub that might be open.

180,000 vs what 3.6 ish, hardly a "size-able minority"?300,000 to half a million, then your talking. Sure some big big towns/small Cities contain 180,000 yet when it comes to government funding, they are forgotten about (unless in or around the Dublin region or one or two days before an election) Still it is worth looking at, reviewing considering the laws that they are , are very old. But still, can you trust Irish people with drink?

Of course the law is worth reviewing, if it is unjust. And in this case it is, it promotes the religious beliefs of group of people over another.
What has trusting Irish people with drink got to do with anything? Alcohol is sold legally 363 days a year, surely making it 364 won't make a significant contribution to the problem of alcohol abuse. But as was said previously, the argument of alcohol abuse among the Irish is a separate argument.

I am sure your life style will survive one night, simply out of interest, do you go out every friday night, if not, whats so special about good friday (by the way, no one is questioning your freedom and free will) What do you do on Christmas Day?

Exactly the type of condescending attitude that bugs me.
And yes, I do normally go out on Friday night, every Friday, and have done for years. I find it a nice way to relax after working all week.
Christmas Day I stay in, because it's a holiday season and I like to spend it with family.

With regard to the you can't call it a holiday, ya, thats true, but sure, Look at St Stephens Day (or Boxing Day to suit others) or New Years Eve & Day or Paddy's Day,aren't they holidays? Don't people work on those days and nights? (now if I have to give you examples of same, which I doubt btw, I would sincerely call on you to get out more) Someone has to man the boiler and lighthouse, boss

I'm sure there are people working on those days, but they are still not normal working days, they are bank holidays.

I am glad you have a decent opinon about the burkas, but the security concerns, respectively, is a wee bit ignorant and casts all muslims in one. I think burka or no burka the actors of horror etc would have carried out their deeds in those countries regarldess of what they wear

I never mentioned anything about terrorism, but my post was vague. I was referring to things like identity on a driving licence, passport etc. If a guard stopped a driver, and asked to see her driving licence, she would have to remove the section covering her face. Similarly, if she went into a bank, she would have to show her face due to the banks own security policies.

But that's getting off topic.

The point of this thread is the religious views of one group of people have formed the basis of a law. That is just plain wrong in a modern multi cultural democracy.

walrusgumble

syklops wrote: »

The thing is though its not even a catholic thing. Its an Irish thing. No other christian county bans the sale of Alcohol on Good Friday(I am not sure about muslim countries). Even in Rome, Alcohol is still on sale on Good Friday. You can go to mass, and then stop for a quick one on the way home.

right, well, then, it makes the Irish position more ridiculous if they purport it to be on religious grounds. So the Pope can have a few after a few hours gigging in the Square?

anymore

[

QUOTE=zootroid;64875658]We have no choice but to abide by the law, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. We can protest so that we can have it changed.

.
The point of this thread is the religious views of one group of people have formed the basis of a law. That is just plain wrong in a modern multi cultural democracy.

[/QUOTE]

I am afraid I have enough problems dealing with the predominant culture of the republic without a slew of other cultures sticking thier oars in as well !
For the record Article one of the Constitutiion and the preamble makes clear what the prevaling culture of Ireland is. So talk about ' multicculturalism is just talk.
I am not a practioneer of any religion now and i can see secular reasons for leaving pubs closed on just two days out of 365.
I suspect most people objecting to the closure of pubs on good friday will be running to church or mosque or what ever for marriages, funerals etc etc.
There is life outside of pubs, do without the crutch of the pub for two days !

syklops

anymore wrote: »

I am afraid I have enough problems dealing with the predominant culture of the republic without a slew of other cultures sticking thier oars in as well !
For the record Article one of the Constitutiion and the preamble makes clear what the prevaling culture of Ireland is. So talk about ' multicculturalism is just talk.
I am not a practioneer of any religion now and i can see secular reasons for leaving pubs closed on just two days out of 365.
I suspect most people objecting to the closure of pubs on good friday will be running to church or mosque or what ever for marriages, funerals etc etc.
There is life outside of pubs, do without the crutch of the pub for two days !

So your saying just grin and bear it?

I am sure numerous abuse victims heard that aswell.

So the Pope can have a few after a few hours gigging in the Square?

Yes he can. In fact Pope John Paul II was partial to a few shots of vodka after Mass. I dont mean that in any way to be disrespectful to him. I am stating fact.

anymore

syklops wrote: »

So your saying just grin and bear it?

I am sure numerous abuse victims heard that aswell.



Yes he can. In fact Pope John Paul II was partial to a few shots of vodka after Mass. I dont mean that in any way to be disrespectful to him. I am stating fact.

Well lets see, you could go to a sports club on Good friday as many will do for a few jars, go to Limerick for match and buy a few pints there, even buy a cheap ticket to fly some place and stay drinking in airport bar ( I knew some on who did that once) or evevn find one of the many pubs who leave the back door open for a few hours on Good Fri, or buy from off licence - apparently Holy Thrs is one of the busiest nights for them.
Or I suppose some may contemplate their first visit to AA on good friday !:D:D:D

anymore

P>s I tought most Irish people went off the jar for lent anyway ? :):)

syklops

anymore wrote: »

Well lets see, you could go to a sports club on Good friday as many will do for a few jars, go to Limerick for match and buy a few pints there, even buy a cheap ticket to fly some place and stay drinking in airport bar ( I knew some on who did that once) or evevn find one of the many pubs who leave the back door open for a few hours on Good Fri, or buy from off licence - apparently Holy Thrs is one of the busiest nights for them.
Or I suppose some may contemplate their first visit to AA on good friday !:D:D:D

So you are saying Grin and bear it, or break the law or find a loophole(go to the airport). Is that what your advocating?

97i9y3941

not sure about the 24 hour thing,ireland been ireland we would never leave the pub then,guards probably be happy tho with the amount of overtime they would get for it,also if the rugby match wasnt on good friday we prob woundnt hear a plead for pubs opening,i only pity the tourists who no doubtly will get roasted by the pubs/hotels on the day.