Abortion (may contain details that some might find upsetting)

hitlersson666

So fellow c&h's what's your view's

Mine are that its wrong unless it's for the health of the mother or rape!
If someone is stupid enough to have unprotected sex and they get pregnant that it's there responsibility

Pygmalion

Was wondering when someone would stop talking about starting this thread and actually start it :P.

I'll leave it unanswered for a while as I haven't really read up a huge amount on it apart from what I learned in religion class in school (lol learning about something slightly complicated in religion class).

Insect Overlord

This should be interesting! :cool:

phlegms

I'm fervently on the pro-choice side of things.
Regardless of whether I think the semantics of it are right or wrong, I think it is absolutely vital that it still be an option available for people in particularly fúcked up circumstances.

D4RK ONION

Pro-choice also. It's your own body, and I don't see why people who believe you shouldn't do it should have a choice in the matter. If they don't want to avail of such services or are horrified by them, then that's their deal.

I got into a huge fight with a classmate in college once on this subject, who was quite religious and refused to see or even accept my reasoning. I haven't really talked about it since.

Fad

Pro-choice.

Dont really regard an embryo to be life, really depends on how developed it is. But a blob of cells is not a life to me (And I dont think I could ever be convinced otherwise).

That said the more the thing develops, the more the line begins to blur. Late term abortions are just ridiculous. The foetus should not have been allowed to develop that far if it's going to be killed.

I dunno, I have a fairly strong opinion about life and value of life (Or lack there of), but I dont feel like arguing about it!

Hardcore pro-life people annoy me to no end though. Less to do with them blocking the availability of abortion (Being pro-choice, obviously I think people should have the choice, and they should make their own mind up) and more to do with the implications on embryonic stem cell research. But that's a seperate issue altogether!)

This:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrm7W3zGSoA

D4RK ONION

Fad wrote: »

That said the more the thing develops, the more the line begins to blur. Late term abortions are just ridiculous. The foetus should not have been allowed to develop that far if it's going to be killed.

The above would be my main problem with the matter. Late term abortions are disgusting and irresponsible (obligatory IMO)

Fad

hitlersson666 wrote: »

If someone is stupid enough to have unprotected sex and they get pregnant that it's there responsibility

This, I have a problem with.

If someone gets pregnant through some sort of accident (Condom rips/pill fails/whatever) I dont see how or why that is equivilant to being irresponsible.

Basically I have a problem with the lack of availability....

Boston

hitlersson666 wrote: »

If someone is stupid enough to have unprotected sex and they get pregnant that it's there responsibility

At your young age I take it you haven't done anything really stupid yet. Give it time, eventually you will. I wonder if you'll think it right to pay for one simple mistake for the rest of your life then.

hitlersson666

That said the behavior of some people is a joke and there reason for abortion is mad eg.''I don't want to get fat'' It may be a ''thing'' but it can fell pain like we do and to take away somethings life willingly is murder!

I may be young but trust me I know always to use a condom

(can someone add a poll as well please)

SligoBrewer

hitlersson666 wrote: »

I may be young but trust me I know always to use a condom

Do you know how to use it correctly though?

brummytom

hitlersson666 wrote: »

Mine are that its wrong unless it's for the health of the mother

I actually agree with you there. I was discussing this today actually with quite a militant atheist (brought up Catholic).

It seems inhumane, to me, to terminate a life. People argue that foetuses aren't lifes; I don't care. I just don't think it's right. To be quite honest, it disgusts me.

Obviously there are a very rare times when abortion is justified (something like an ectopic pregnancy, where there is a risk of death to the mother.. then, obviously a choice has to be made to save the mother); but apart from that, no, I'm wholly opposed to it

Pygmalion

brummytom wrote: »

I was discussing this today actually with quite a militant atheist

The main thing that annoys me about the abortion argument is when you get the militant atheists who cannot for the life of them realise that abortion isn't a religious thing.
Someone says they're against abortion and all of a sudden they're assumed to be some bible-freak, because of course there's no way an atheist could see a problem with it.

hitlersson666

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Do you know how to use it correctly though?

Actually yes i did a few sessions with the yhs in cork and in school

brummytom

Pygmalion wrote: »

The main thing that annoys me about the abortion argument is when you get the militant atheists who cannot for the life of them realise that abortion isn't a religious thing.
Someone says they're against abortion and all of a sudden they're assumed to be some bible-freak, because of course there's no way an atheist could see a problem with it.

Well I think to be honest, that, to her (not by any means to other atheists) that condoning abortion is more of a rebellious act against the church's teachings than any real desire for a woman's 'choice'.

Davidius

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Pro-choice also. It's your own body, and I don't see why people who believe you shouldn't do it should have a choice in the matter. If they don't want to avail of such services or are horrified by them, then that's their deal.

I got into a huge fight with a classmate in college once on this subject, who was quite religious and refused to see or even accept my reasoning. I haven't really talked about it since.

Well in fairness I think that reasoning is a bit flawed. It's all well and good to leave people to their own devices if nobody's getting hurt and most would generally agree with that. However it's easy to see why people would have issue with abortion, because they believe that it involves murdering another human being against their will. If you considered it to be murder then it seems natural that you would want to put a stop to it.

Fad

hitlersson666 wrote: »

That said the behavior of some people is a joke and there reason for abortion is mad eg.''I don't want to get fat'' It may be a ''thing'' but it can fell pain like we do and to take away somethings life willingly is murder!

I have never heard of anybody use reasoning in anyway like that.

If a baby isnt wanted, it might not be loved by the parent. Which IMHO could be as bad as causing it pain during termination (Which is still iffy tbh, I dont really care about it being able to feel pain tbh). No being loved or not feeling wanted can have horrific consequences to people's feeling of self worth)

(Yes I know there's other routes besides the parents keeping the baby......)

SligoBrewer

First of all can we ban the use of the word "murder" in this thread.

---

Successive governments have fudged the issue, and I'm sure that not a single abortion decision is taken lightly.

It may seem like the easy way out, but it's not easy in the slightest. People do consider these things, consider them very well and calling it an easy way out is appalling.

To take the decision to go to England and put yourself through a procedure with virtually no aftercare will never be taken lightly.

And here's where the fudging takes place, 'cause we're allowed to travel to have an abortion but not have one here, and this law is both hypocritical and is putting the health of many women in grave danger.

If only to avoid the stress of the traveling (Which is bad enough when you don't have other worries) and the proper aftercare of our women after they have an abortion, I'd be all for legalisation as those who want an abortion will travel and get one.

hitlersson666

Athough I may add the really hard core pro life people annoy me but the way that they leave dead pictures of babies all over the place

And to give people a idea this is how abortion's are done!

RU-486

RU-486 is a drug that produces an abortion. It is taken after the mother misses her period. It can be used up to the second month of pregnancy. It works by blocking progesterone, a crucial hormone during pregnancy. Without progesterone, the uterine lining does not provide food, fluid and oxygen to the tiny developing baby. The baby cannot survive. A second drug is then given that stimulates the uterus to contract and the baby is expelled.

Women who abort with the drug RU-486 experience nausea, severe cramping, vomiting and bleeding. But the resulting emotional distress may have even more impact. Rather than being “over with” in a few minutes (as in a surgical abortion) this abortion could last for over a week. Then, when the woman finally does abort, she will expel a tiny dead human being - her baby.


Suction-Aspiration

In this method, the cervical muscle ring must be paralyzed and stretched open. The abortionist then inserts a hollow plastic tube with a knife-like edge into the uterus. The suction tears the baby’s body into pieces. The placenta is cut from the uterine wall and everything is sucked into a bottle.


Dilation and Curettage (D and C)

This is similar to a suction procedure except a curette, a loop-shaped steel knife is inserted into the uterus. The baby and placenta are cut into pieces and scraped out into a basin. Bleeding is usually very heavy with this method.


Dilation and Evacuation (D and E)

This type of abortion is done after the third month of pregnancy. The cervix must be dilated before the abortion. Usually Laminaria sticks are inserted into the cervix. These are made of sterilized seaweed that is compressed into thin sticks. When inserted, they absorb moisture and expand, thus enlarging the cervix. A pliers-like instrument is inserted through the cervix into the uterus. The abortionist then seizes a leg, arm or other part of the baby and, with a twisting motion, tears it from the body. This continues until only the head remains. Finally the skull is crushed and pulled out. The nurse must then reassemble the body parts to be sure that all of them were removed.



Prostaglandin Abortion

Prostaglandin is a hormone that induces labor. The baby usually dies from the trauma of the delivery. However, if the baby is old enough, it will be born alive. This is called a “complication.” To prevent this, some abortionists use ultrasound to guide them as they inject a “feticide” (a drug that kills the fetus) into the unborn baby’s heart. They then administer prostaglandin and a dead baby is delivered. This type of abortion is used in mid and late term pregnancies.


Dilation and Extraction (D and X)

This abortion is also used on mid and late term babies, from 4 to 9 months gestation. Ultrasound is used to identify how the unborn baby is facing in the womb. The abortionist inserts forceps through the cervical canal into the uterus and grasps one of the baby’s legs, positioning the baby feet first, face down (breech position). The child’s body is then pulled out of the birth canal except for the head which is too large to pass through the cervix. The baby is alive, and probably kicking and flailing his legs and arms. The abortionist hooks his fingers over the baby’s shoulders, holding the woman’s cervix away from the baby’s neck. He then jams blunt tipped surgical scissors into the base of the skull and spreads the tips apart to enlarge the wound. A suction catheter is inserted into the baby’s skull and the brain is sucked out. The skull collapses and the baby’s head passes easily through the cervix.

Abortion is called a “choice”. What is really chosen is the killing of a human being. The methods differ but the results are the same - a dead baby. Even abortion supporters admit this. Dr. Malcom Watts, writing a pro-abortion piece for the California Medical Association said: “...it has been necessary to separate the idea of abortion from the idea of killing, which continues to be socially abhorrent. The result has been a curious avoidance of the scientific fact, which everyone really knows, that human life begins at conception and is continuous until death.” The real question is not about “choice.” It is whether we have the right to kill over 4,000 human beings a day, for any reason.

SligoBrewer

hitlersson666 wrote: »

And to give people a idea this is how abortion's are done!

Where did you find that?

The language is as provocative as a Wonderbra ad.

hitlersson666

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Where did you find that?

The language is as provocative as a Wonderbra ad.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/literature/literature_9312ha.asp lol

Insect Overlord

In light of post #19, I'm going to edit the thread title slightly.
Some of those details are extremely graphic. Upsettingly so, it might be said.

hitlersson666

Insect Overlord wrote: »

In light of post #19, I'm going to edit the thread title slightly.
Some of those details are extremely graphic. Upsettingly so, it might be said.

Cool I was going to put on a warning that it was upsetting but that is the sad truth of it all

SligoBrewer

hitlersson666 wrote: »

that is the sad thruth of it all

Can any of the medheads on here get some proper facts for me please? Abortionfacts.com is hardly a legible source.

hitlersson666

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Can any of the medheads on here get some proper facts for me please? Abortionfacts.com is hardly a legible source.

Ok how about from a abortion clinic http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/Womens_services/Abortion/Abortion_FAQ.aspx#Types%20of%20abortion%20procedure2

Cerocco

This thread by its topic is highly emotive for everyone. Everyone believes that their opinion is right, and rightly so. I'll just add that it must be an extremely hard decision to make, and that decision is the right of the mother & father if he choses to be involved. No one else!!!!!! Opinions good or bad should not be forced on others

Davidius

SligoBrewer wrote: »

First of all can we ban the use of the word "murder" in this thread.

Why? It's a perfectly valid word to use when expressing a pro-life stance. Of course the use of "Pro-choice" and "Pro-life" are probably worse in themselves as they each imply the opposition is opposed to something that is fundamentally "good".

And here's where the fudging takes place, 'cause we're allowed to travel to have an abortion but not have one here, and this law is both hypocritical and is putting the health of many women in grave danger.

If only to avoid the stress of the traveling (Which is bad enough when you don't have other worries) and the proper aftercare of our women after they have an abortion, I'd be all for legalisation as those who want an abortion will travel and get one.

I don't really see how the law is hypocritical. It bans abortions within it's jurisdiction, the only place it can do so. In doing so they show that the state does not support the act. Just because our neighbours have a different opinion doesn't mean we should change it accordingly. These women are given the choice to leave the country as they please and it seems right that what they do over there is simply out of our control. The government probably can't be seen to take priority of a woman's health if it directly affects her child's either so they just leave it be.

dreamers75

mothers choice.


her decision alone not irelands as to whether she can raise the child if she feels she cant its up to her onlt god people see it as murder. normal people see it as a choice.

mardybumbum

hitlersson666 wrote: »

And to give people a idea this is how abortion's are done!

That **** is sick.

Insect Overlord

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Can any of the medheads on here get some proper facts for me please? Abortionfacts.com is hardly a legible source.

I could read it fairly easily

(methinks you mean credible, rather than legible)

Exasperated

Heres an idea.Next time you provide ''unbiased'' info in relation to abortion maybe try an actual unbiased source, like one not sponsored by a pro-life online shop namely ''heritage house'' whose range of quality products seem focused round pro life ideaologies.Just a thaught