New Car Advice S5 or M3

TCP/IP

Hi Lads,

I am looking at upgrading at the moment and have my head on either an Audi S5 or a new model M3. What are peoples opinion on both. I tested an S5 yesterday and liked it very comfy not sure on the M3 as worried it is turning in a bit of a scanger car as especially the E46 model. Anyhows what you lot think.

Thx a mill
TCP/IP

TheBazman

Think the S5 is a better looker but performance wise it's more on a par with a 335i. Based on that I would go with the M3

Pkiernan

The new M3 is pretty far from a scanher mobile, but I would question it's suitability for Irish roads, not to mention having 420 PS on tap could well lead to many tickets!

I drove a 4 door 335d in Germany recently, and I would think that here in Ireland it is every bit as good as an M3 - for all the use it would get. It can also return suprisingly good fuel economy when driven "normally".

If you are considering tracking the car, or intend on doing a lot of travel abroad (i.e. Germany) then I would consider the M3.
Otherwise, despite the fact that it is a cracking car, the M3's potential is kind of wasted here, not to mention the massive road tax and insurance bills it would incur.

Lex Luthor

such a dilemna...!!!

M3 for me

Matt Simis

Pkiernan wrote: »

The new M3 is pretty far from a scanher mobile, but I would question it's suitability for Irish roads, not to mention having 420 PS on tap could well lead to many tickets!

I drove a 4 door 335d in Germany recently, and I would think that here in Ireland it is every bit as good as an M3 - for all the use it would get. It can also return suprisingly good fuel economy when driven "normally".

If you are considering tracking the car, or intend on doing a lot of travel abroad (i.e. Germany) then I would consider the M3.
Otherwise, despite the fact that it is a cracking car, the M3's potential is kind of wasted here, not to mention the massive road tax and insurance bills it would incur.

The S5, while looking fantastic, likely would give a more sterile drive than an M car. Also, it wouldnt say its performance counterpart is the 335i, currently the Audi S cars sit awkwardly between top engine'd normal BMWs and their M cars, so its like 335i+. It is on par performance wise with the generation older E46 M3 however and given its AWD, can put down that power nearly anytime. Have moved from highend AWD cars to a fast RWD, there are loads of situtations where the RWD fails you on our crap roads. Still a more fun drive, but dont underestimate just how good AWD is if you take a lot of backroads.

ION08

When I think of skanger cars, I think of Civics, Glanzas, Altezzas. Certainly not E46 M3's.. let alone a brand spankin new E92 M3!

I would definitely prefer the M3 over the S5, I think its an a much more impressive car. At a push I think I would even take the M3 over an RS5.

What a choice to have to make, I'm sure you'll enjoy whichever one you go for in the end

af_thefragile

I'ld chose the S5.
4WD would be better for everyday driving especially the mostly wet conditions we have here. I think Audi's interior is nicer than BMW's.
And its less of a "boy racer" car than the M3.

Though if you don't care about the image and want a proper sporty drive, then the M3 is better.
Or wait for the RS5.

ION08

E92 m3 , boy racer car if you don't care about your image ?? Now I've heard it all!

bf

While I like the S5, it would have to be M3 for me. Can't help thinking the S5 would be a lot harder to sell on...

Shane732

An a new E92 M3 is a scanger car? Where on earth do you live?!

Have you driven both of them? If you have then you'll know the answer to your question - the M3 wins every time.

The comments about Irish roads and AWD's are fair points but I just think the M3 is streets ahead of the S5.

Only problem is that the residuals mightn't be great as the new F30 is due out in 2011/2012 but at that end of the market you have to be willing to take a bit of a hit anyway! There's a longer lifespan left in the S5.

Would you not consider importing a 6 month old/ 6,000 miles one from the UK? Much better selection and you'd save plenty by doing it. With the cash saved I'd recommend you put it into some original BMW performance parts.

TCP/IP

Thanks for all the interesting replies. Lets get some things clear I am buying a second hand one deffo not a new one and that makes the RS5 a no go. I dont think the new E92 M3 is a scanger mobile I just fear that when it drops in price like the E46 that it will become one. I love the E46 M3 nearly bought one on two occasions but they are in the scanger braket now I am afraid no doubt about it. It really is a tough call think I will get a loan of the two for a day or so and see what they are like to live with in the real world. To the person that mentioned the 335 you are right a super car and might not be ruled out.

JHMEG

TCP/IP wrote: »

I love the E46 M3 nearly bought one on two occasions but they are in the scanger braket

They're within reach of the chav in the UK, but are they really in the skanger bracket here yet?

Matt Simis

I really dont think the E46 M3 is in the reach of chavs here (I dunno bout the UK). Ive seen about 3 genuine ones, all driven to work by well to do office types. Im sure the Irish chav would buy the diesel and stick M badges all over it.

Even so, I wouldnt be so affected by image to rule out a car like that. Given that no one agrees with you anyway (about the M3 being a skanger car), would you really stick to your guns so rigidly?

Big Nasty

To be fair I have seen plenty of 'blinged' M3's, the S5 is far more subtle looking but the M3 is the better car IMO.

copacetic

the S5 is lovely but not really comparable to an M3. So M3 all the way. M3 is a fair bit more powerful, handles better and is more fun to drive. S5 is more of a straighliner. Although will be less likely to get you in trouble in roundabouts and wet corners.

Maybe it's closer between an S5 and a 335i though. The E92 in darker colours is nice and not too over the top.

mickdw

As far as Im aware, the S5 shares suspension parts relating to geometry with the rest of the A5 range. Compare this to what I believe is a dedicated setup on the M3 & that would lead me to think that the true performance car is the M3.

af_thefragile

ION08 wrote: »

E92 m3 , boy racer car if you don't care about your image ?? Now I've heard it all!

Maybe not the new one.

But M3 is like the generic car every "racer" type guy with a bit of extra cash would go for.
Also not to mention the one's who stick "M" badges on whatever they can get their hands on!

S5 is a bit more subtle and understated which is why I would prefer it. And I think it looks much better than the M3 too.

Though I will not disagree that M3 is a superior drivers car.

But for everyday use, you'ld rather want something a bit more relaxing and the reassurance of 4wd is always good thing to have.


Though you can't really compare the M3 to the S5. The RS5 is the proper competitor to the M3.

I'ld say the OP should drive both cars and decide on whichever he feels good in. After all all car decisions come down to how they make you feel...

JHMEG

mickdw wrote: »

Compare this to what I believe is a dedicated setup on the M3 & that would lead me to think that the true performance car is the M3.

I would have thought the M3 shares a lot with other 3/5-series.

mickdw

JHMEG wrote: »

I would have thought the M3 shares a lot with other 3/5-series.

I dont think it shared anything relating to geometry & suspension setup.

listermint

JHMEG wrote: »

I would have thought the M3 shares a lot with other 3/5-series.

You would have thought wrong, wildly wrong.

JHMEG

mickdw wrote: »

I dont think it shared anything relating to geometry & suspension setup.

Guessing here, but is it not the same basic suspension layout and setup, just with uprated everything? It hardly has extra arms or a different layout?

Padraig Mor

M3. No competition.

Matt Simis

mickdw wrote: »

As far as Im aware, the S5 shares suspension parts relating to geometry with the rest of the A5 range. Compare this to what I believe is a dedicated setup on the M3 & that would lead me to think that the true performance car is the M3.

I would say thats incorrect, though I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to with reference to geometry specifically.

Like all Audi "S" models, the S5 has sportier suspension, unique front and rear fascias, performance wheels and brakes, carbon fiber interior elements, and the choice of a six-speed manual or DSG gearbox.

A wide 62.6-inch front track, the widest in the sport coupe segment, helps "provide direct feedback to your most aggressive steering demands," Audi says. The coupe is aimed at the likes of BMW's M3 coupe -- though with a more distinct Grand Touring flavor -- and Mercedes-Benz' CLK-coupe -- sportier, thanks largely to an available manual transmission.

Im sure if you dug into it, you would find its an uprated everything approach, but still very different to a vanilla 1.8T A5.

mickdw

The point Im trying to get at is that M cars in general have completely altered chassis with revised suspension pick up points needing individual contro arms etc whereas the S5 doesnt. Yes most things will be uprated but Im pretty sure from looking through audi part system that it uses the same part no. for control arms etc as the rest of the A5 range etc.

That was my point & if that is the case, the Audi really isnt at the races.

robtri

Personally it would be the M3 for me...

but to get down to which is better, is a tough one...

if its a performace car you are after then the M3 wins hands down...
to give you an idea...

Nurburgring lap times

m3 CSl - 7:50
M3 E92 - 8:05


Audi S5 8:26

thats 20 seconds a lap.. quicker... says it all really about the performance difference....


if you not after a pure performance car, the S5 is nicer to look at, unfortuantely the m3 looks to close to the 3 series to stand out in the crowd...the S5 and A5 are still not that common around so... for exculisivity and looks I think the S5 takes it...

Comfort... persoanlly think the S5 takes it by a nose.....


Skanger mobile??? well unfortuantely the M3 currently does suffer a bit from it... too many 3 series with M badges stuck on them... yes car nuts can spot the difference, but a lot of average joe soaps dont understand an M tec badge and a M3 badge....
Audi dont suffer from this yet.. and I say yet.... i believe that shortly the fast Audi's will suffer from the same stigma.....
thank you stephen ireland for pushing this along with your R8....

btkm8unsl0w5r4

robtri wrote: »

Audi dont suffer from this yet.. and I say yet.... i believe that shortly the fast Audi's will suffer from the same stigma.......

Are you living in Ireland :eek: Every TDI Audi has a S badge or a RS4 badge on it round my way. Along with some body kits and fake exhausts. If anything its worse than the m badges.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

The comparison is between the RS5 (to be released) and the M3. As said the s5 is more like a 335i but slower ( see 5th gear review on youtube). The M3 wins on performance, technology and handling. The S5 wins on looks and rarity. For me it would be the M3. It will be a long time before the baseball cap brigade get hold of e92 m3s, indeed most of the e46 m3s are in good hands as well. Just cause you can afford to buy one doesn't mean you can afford to run one (where did I hear that ???)

Cyrus

s5 is a nice car with a lovely engine note, but as the rest have said its not a competitor for the m3, its more of a gt than sports car, and the new m3 is a sports car.

i also thing the long term resale of the m3 will be stronger than the s5 aswell, the s5 is a bit of an oddity, having a very sporty engine but not being a very sporty car, rs5 will be a different kettle of fish tho

Matt Simis

Albert Future Birdseed wrote: »

The comparison is between the RS5 (to be released) and the M3. As said the s5 is more like a 335i but slower ( see 5th gear review on youtube).

Oh please, 5th Gear is no better than Top Gear for this. They are rabid RWD fans. Thankfully we can look at proper test results without the tabloid bias online:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/458da72e81532-vs-45fd0fcbd70cb.html

Track____ 335i __ vs __ Coupe S5
Nordschleife 8:26 __ 8:26
Hockenheim Short 1:17.8 __ 1:17.2
Virginia International Raceway 3:10.5 __ 3:14.6
Autozeitung test track 1:45.8 __ 1:44.6
SportAuto wet handling test 1:35.8 __ 1:29.8
Serres Racing Circuit 1:35.25 __ 1:34.80

The S5 is faster in 4 out of 6 tracks (and gets more "track points" over all in their Summary). Check out the wet track, ie the most representative of our roads, the S5 beats the 335i by a whopping 6seconds. The S5 is not slower than the 335i. Once (ok if) they put in the proper V6 Supercharged engine in the S5 Coupe (as per the S5 Cabriolet and new S4) then it will be faster again than that fat old V8.

Shane732

Matt Simis wrote: »

Oh please, 5th Gear is no better than Top Gear for this. They are rabid RWD fans. Thankfully we can look at proper test results without the tabloid bias online:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/458da72e81532-vs-45fd0fcbd70cb.html


The S5 is faster in 4 out of 6 tracks (and gets more "track points" over all in their Summary). Check out the wet track, ie the most representative of our roads, the S5 beats the 335i by a whopping 6seconds. The S5 is not slower than the 335i. Once (ok if) they put in the proper V6 Supercharged engine in the S5 Coupe (as per the S5 Cabriolet and new S4) then it will be faster again than that fat old V8.

I'm lost....Is this meant to be good or bad for the S5?

To my mind I'd read those results as being bad for the S5. A new S5 would knock you back about €100K (including metallic paint!!!! ) where as a 335 M sport would cost you about €65K. That's €35K of a difference for 4 out 6, on the basis of those results you'd be mad to buy a S5 over a 335.

On another note I don't really see them putting the V6 into the S5 anytime soon, sure isn't the RS5 going to use the V8 too??

Do people really think the S5 looks better than the M3? I think a cross over of the two would look great. S5 front and M3 rear!!!

Matt Simis

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm lost....Is this meant to be good or bad for the S5?

To my mind I'd read those results as being bad for the S5. A new S5 would knock you back about €100K (including metallic paint!!!! ) where as a 335 M sport would cost you about €65K. That's €35K of a difference for 4 out 6, on the basis of those results you'd be mad to buy a S5 over a 335.

On another note I don't really see them putting the V6 into the S5 anytime soon, sure isn't the RS5 going to use the V8 too??

a) My post only addressed the statement on relative performance, as quoted and highlighted, not a recommendation on value.
b) I could care less for the randomness of Irish RRPs, I didnt bother to check your numbers but the UK price for the S5 is £40k and a 335i is approx £35k. Given the 335i is part of a mass market platform (the 3 series) while the S5 is a dedicated coupe (and looks like it) as well as outperforms a 335i, that seems reasonable I would think.
c) The RS5 getting a V8 has zero bearing on whats in the S5. RS cars have very different V8s than the S cars had (420bhp vs 340bhp different). They can continue with V8s to differentiate, the S cars will return to having light and fast boosted engines. The RS5 V8 revs to well over 8000 rpm.


I would also like to point out I currently own 2 BMWs and Zero Audis, lest its assumed I have some bias here.

Cyrus

Matt Simis wrote: »

Oh please, 5th Gear is no better than Top Gear for this. They are rabid RWD fans. Thankfully we can look at proper test results without the tabloid bias online:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/458da72e81532-vs-45fd0fcbd70cb.html


The S5 is faster in 4 out of 6 tracks (and gets more "track points" over all in their Summary). Check out the wet track, ie the most representative of our roads, the S5 beats the 335i by a whopping 6seconds. The S5 is not slower than the 335i. Once (ok if) they put in the proper V6 Supercharged engine in the S5 Coupe (as per the S5 Cabriolet and new S4) then it will be faster again than that fat old V8.

id argue matt that the results above highlight the fact that there is basically nothing between, except to affirm the point that in the wet awd is better than rwd.

and this of course is comparing stock cars, if one wanted to up the power of a 335i, up to 370/380bhp is achiveable without spending big money, and lots more if you want to spend a few quid (however you know a lot more about tuning twin turbos than i do i remember the yellow s4)

also im not sure what your point is regarding the s5 being a dedicated coupe? is there not now an a5 convertible and saloon aswell, and surely it borrows something from the a4s aswell

finally the fact we are comparing the s5 to the 335 proves the point that it doesnt belong in the same company as the m3

Matt Simis

Cyrus wrote: »

id argue matt that the results above highlight the fact that there is basically nothing between, except to affirm the point that in the wet awd is better than rwd.

and this of course is comparing stock cars, if one wanted to up the power of a 335i, up to 370/380bhp is achiveable without spending big money, and lots more if you want to spend a few quid (however you know a lot more about tuning twin turbos than i do i remember the yellow s4)
also im not sure what your point is regarding the s5 being a dedicated coupe? is there not now an a5 convertible and saloon aswell, and surely it borrows something from the a4s aswell
finally the fact we are comparing the s5 to the 335 proves the point that it doesnt belong in the same company as the m3

Well I do basically agree on all the above, though the A5 "saloon" is a sport back... a coupe with 2 extra doors (ie making a saloon out of a coupe vs the e92 which was a coupe from a saloon). BMWs current dedicated (as much as platform sharing allows) coupes would be the 6 series and the 8 series before that.

If the OP would remap the car (I assumed not for no reason whatsoever), then absolutely, 335i all the way. According to many online reports and some Mag articles, the stock 335i is putting out upto 350bhp pending example and artificially quoted low to protect M3 product ranging. This would correlate the fairly fantastic results from remapping.
Even a 335d with some tuning would be a seriously impressively car, way ahead of the S5.

PS: Im not trying to prove the S5 is in the same league as the M3, merely correcting the 5th Gear propagated myth its slower than a 335i, which we seem to all agree on to some degree now.

MarkN

Op I've an E92 a year now. Covered 10,000 kms in it. Tax over 1500 a year, insurance €1,000 I'm not old by any stretch.

Oil and filter main dealer 700 plus.

Tyres can be had for ok money if you shop around but you're talking bones of 1400 for all 4.

Heavy on juice but not much worse than a 335.

Different beast to S5, the M3 will eat a 911 Carerra S in a straight line nevermind an S5 but that's not the be all - it has nearly 100 brake more than S5 though. Looks wise very different, the S5 looks great and to me would be more of a cruiser, the M3 is very laid back too if you want it to be in traffic. M power mode changes that and then the car is very taut, bit jerky but it does what it says, you can feel the power delivery change.

Welcome to have a look at mine anytime should you want to see what they're like.

Both lovely cars but quite different. I have to say I've seen more S5s than M3s in Ireland.