What convinved you that there was/wasn`t "something else"?

theg81der

Hi!

Just a question I`m interested in hearing an answer from everyone - what was it that convinced you there was or was not something else, a life after death? Was there some thing you saw, read, heard that finalised your view?

Corkgirl210

From birth, I had known there was always something else.. A "knowingness"

I can communicate with the spirit world, as can EVERYONE if they choose to learn how to tune in.. when you get validation after validation of continous existence through mental mediumship as well as spirit possesion of your body, how can you not believe? Proof finalized my view!

windykemaryke

I think it is a long process while you get certainty. But not necesserly a book or somebody's opinion brings you understanding. More like an inner feeling. You just feel it inside, and even if you are not sure about it maybe you meet a person, a book, an organization which helps you to understand more. When we know only the part of the truth that's not truth. We have to know the whole to know the truth. And that takes time. Maybe more lives.

Timmywalldo

All the dieing people in Africa .... natural disasters ,,,, and the theory of evolution

rugalo

Timmywalldo wrote: »

All the dieing people in Africa .... natural disasters ,,,, and the theory of evolution

what does that mean?

Hooded Healer

Three reasons:
i) The quality of intellect shown by healers;
ii) The magnificent poetry, e.g. "Everytime I hear a newborn baby cry/ or touch a leaf or see the sky..."
iii) The feeling in my waters.

Dave!

1. No evidence for it -- pretty compelling reason, one would think
2. The idea of an afterlife fits in a bit too nicely with humans' fear of death -- it seems a bit too convenient really, wishful thinking
3. Psychological research is showing more and more that consciousness is a product of the brain and that tinkering with the brain (damaging or removing particular parts, or else administering drugs) results in dramatic behavioural changes in the subject. It would seem a bit strange that a spirit/soul (whatever supposedly continues to exist after the body decomposes) would be capable of being tinkered with in such a manner
4. Other stuff that I'm too tired to think of

dermothickey

We incarnate... is it so difficult to understand when you look around at the magic of nature, the very magic of life itself?

Dave!

Not a very compelling argument mate

dermothickey

argument is for the angry

Nevyn

Dave! wrote: »

Not a very compelling argument mate

Funny I thought this was a dicussion site not an argument site.

UB Dude

As a child I had faith. I was deeply enamoured by the 'stories' of Jesus. However, as time went by I became deeply disenchanted with 'religion', to the point of burning resentment. I felt I had been diddled. The God of love I was encouraged to believe in seemed to have abandoned me and in his absence innumerable tragedies struck, leaving me feeling desolate. As James Allen said, 'Agony is the enemy of apathy' and so spurred on by personal pain, and later by the desire to find a 'cure' for heartache, I came to a turning point and unexpectedly found God. I mean that, it truly was unexpected.
In my efforts to undo the personal knots I had tied myself in, I had managed to let go of much of my resentment – realising that a lot of it was rooted in a false sense of 'entitlement' or, put more accurately, immature expectations. Having let go of that, I went in pursuit of truth. I pursued truth because it lay at the root of every question – if there was no truth, then questions have no meaning – quests are pointless, life is a fiction, a bizarre delusion, so if I wanted to establish my quest on solid foundations I would first have to discover whether truth existed or not. This created a catch-22 situation.
Ultimately I realised that truth is an experiential reality. If it existed it could be experienced. Not only that, I came to realise that there existed a core commonality shared between me and 'all that is' and that to experience this would require an outreach from the very depths of my being and so I began to meditate very seriously on the experience of 'being'. Part of the catch-22 was the very experiential nature of my goal. Mind had taken me so far on my quest but had only led me to the gate. Now I needed to enter a place beyond mind. Mind tends to analyse, compartmentalise, but that's after the fact of being, as being is in some sense prior to thought, at least thought as traditionally understood. In the end I realised that where I needed to go I couldn't go on my own. Something or someone would be needed to carry me across the threshold, and so I found myself dependant on grace – even though I didn't know how to articulate that at the time. It can be recounted now that my quest for insight was noted and responded to in a spiritual experience that spoke to me from a place too deep for words, wherein were revealed things I could hardly imagine. It has taken most of my life to come to terms with the truth that there is 'something'. That this something is a divine order of reality. Wherein, whereon, and wherefrom, a whole host of divinely created intelligent beings minister to the lost and weary of the earth, and who whisper into their tired ears, the joys yet to come that 'eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has the heart of man dreamed up'!
When it comes to God, it doesn't matter if you believe in Him/It or not, s/he/it believes in you. We should take comfort in the fact we can love much more easily than we can understand. I love my friends but I do not understand them, how could things be any different when it comes to knowing a personal God? In its need, an infant cries out to 'it does not know what' and finds its needs are met. We are similarly spiritual infants, for the most part unconscious of the incredible lengths to which our divine creators are going to insure our welfare and ultimate happiness. The immaturity of our 'spiritual sensory apparatus' {you that do not have the eye to see and the ear to hear} may incline us to the notion that there is no God, but simply because a blind person cannot see the sun it does not follow that there is no sun. We need to be conscious of using logic when it comes to trying to process spiritual truths, the methods of creative arts more effectively capture spiritual realities.
Anyhoo, sorry for going on.


Namaste
Barry

vodafoneproblem

That's an amazing post, UB Dude.

Lando Griffin

Joe Coleman and his meandering gobbledygook.

Denimgirl

I alway had ammense fate in God and just felt there is more to us than just a physical being,Something really validated this more me years ago my aunt died and and she came to me in a dream telling me she was giving me a ring and be careful not to loose it next morning i woke up was a bit teary as missed my aunt, and dreaming about her,she had passed a few years previous!.I went down to my grandmothers house a couple of days later and she asked me to try on a ring i tried it on and i says thats lovely and she says you keep it was your great grandmothers ring, It suddenly dawned on me about my dream and i asked my gran did my aunt who died ever wear it she said yes it was given to her and she died with it on her.I was'nt spooked by it just found it facinating! but i thought it was more than a coincidence!

dermothickey

When I touch my Heart, and smile freely and follow the wonderful feeling in My Heart, then realize it is Love from the Source of Love.

munsterdevil

Fortunately I fall under the "wasn't" something else category.

The reasons were numerous:

1: Who created the creator?
2: The vast amount of different gods that are worshipped on this planet, they are millions.
3: The idea of heaven is not compatible with evolution, for instance at what stage did god decide that we as a bipedal humanoid species had evolved far enough to enter heaven, I mean was there an exact cut off point
4: As for the Christian Judea god, the Bible is totally unreliable, it was written decades after Jesus was on Earth, so it is merely hear say. Also, why would god send his son to an illiterate society?
5: How can you believe in something that you cannot see touch or smell?

thebullkf

munsterdevil wrote: »

Fortunately I fall under the "wasn't" something else category.

The reasons were numerous:

1: Who created the creator?
2: The vast amount of different gods that are worshipped on this planet, they are millions.
3: The idea of heaven is not compatible with evolution, for instance at what stage did god decide that we as a bipedal humanoid species had evolved far enough to enter heaven, I mean was there an exact cut off point
4: As for the Christian Judea god, the Bible is totally unreliable, it was written decades after Jesus was on Earth, so it is merely hear say. Also, why would god send his son to an illiterate society?
5: How can you believe in something that you cannot see touch or smell?[/QUOTE]


not compatible??


explain......or just not compatible for you...




how do you know????





do you believe that the only things we can experience are through sight and touch????


do you feel, smell; fear-love-hate???

can you touch-see it ??

munsterdevil

thebullkf wrote: »

not compatible??

explain......or just not compatible for you...

Not compatible scientifically, when did god decide a humanoid species could enter heaven? think about it, the very first soul that was allowed into heaven did not get to see his parents in heaven.

thebullkf wrote: »

do you believe that the only things we can experience are through sight and touch????

we can also smell things, we can feel love for things, but the things we feel love for are things we know exist, unlike a god.

thebullkf wrote: »

do you feel smell fear-love-hate???

As above, the things I "fear-love-hate" all exist, I have seen them, I have never seen god or any evidence for one

thebullkf wrote: »

can you touch-see it ??

I assume you mean "fear-love-hate", therefore as I have already explained those three sense involve things I know exist.

post edit: My eye sight is fine so there is no need to put sentences in bold lettering

thebullkf

munsterdevil wrote: »

Not compatible scientifically, when did god decide a humanoid species could enter heaven? think about it, the very first soul that was allowed into heaven did not get to see his parents in heaven.



says who???


we can also smell things, we can feel love for things, but the things we feel love for are things we know exist, unlike a god.

whats your definition of god??


As above, the things I "fear-love-hate" all exist, I have seen them, I have never seen god or any evidence for one

as above


I assume you mean "fear-love-hate", therefore as I have already explained those three sense involve things I know exist.


sorry if i seem pedantic. {i'm not religous}




post edit: My eye sight is fine so there is no need to put sentences in bold lettering

i put it in bold as i highlighted a specific part of your terxt in bold.

munsterdevil

thebullkf wrote: »

sorry if i seem pedantic. {i'm not religous}

No need to apologise, you were entitled to ask, after all it is a forum

dermothickey

This is a good topic though just to say it is what has convinced you there was/wasnt something else, so everyone here is convinced either way. Us humans we are funny creatures 6 billion brains on the planet and ye are all right. Or at least we each believe we are right :pac: in our own heads.

The brain is a funny thing, it judges, categorizes, analyzes, likes to argue, but for all its worth when it isn't in tune with realization it just floats on and on in a continous meandering around aquired knowledge usually from books and what others say, or personal experience, belief system etc.

Look... the top 10 theologians of christianity all in a room together will argue one passage in their holy book each believing that they have cracked the code of the meaning of that passage.

Aah but when people realize something then it is different, as not only their human consciousness/brain knows it but all other parts of their being.

To really simplify it is beyond anothers comprehension as it is your realization no-one else's. Maybe in a way sometimes it can be better to realize something and just let it permeate throughout your whole self. Like if you never tasted a banana and I tried to describe the taste to you, What kind of an idea of the banana would you have???

This is the big conundrum of all people who have experienced something on the spiritual which has had a profound impact on their lives. From the great known seekers to the quiet monks etc. When they went to explain to others it was like the banana theory.

So...what I am getting to here unless you have the opportunity to help guide someone to experience for themselves, it is pointless to meander around the edges of peoples belief systems.

This imo is what certain spiritual esoteric groups do, they help people to experience for themselves. Though people are open to it they go away with some realization, others with a sceptism etc go away with out really opening themselves up.

Neither is wrong its just human beings and our own ideas that get in the way.

munsterdevil

dermothickey wrote: »

The brain is a funny thing, it judges, categorizes, analyzes, likes to argue, but for all its worth when it isn't in tune with realization it just floats on and on in a continous meandering around aquired knowledge usually from books and what others say, or personal experience, belief system etc.

True, and especially the argument part;)

dermothickey wrote: »

To really simplify it is beyond anothers comprehension as it is your realization no-one else's. Maybe in a way sometimes it can be better to realize something and just let it permeate throughout your whole self. Like if you never tasted a banana and I tried to describe the taste to you, What kind of an idea of the banana would you have???

This is the big conundrum of all people who have experienced something on the spiritual which has had a profound impact on their lives. From the great known seekers to the quiet monks etc. When they went to explain to others it was like the banana theory.

I'm not trying to antagonize you Dermot but I see a problem with this analogy. You see a person knows they can in a physical sense witness a banana. In other words they can see one, and they know they can touch one. The same cannot be said for a god.

dermothickey

munsterdevil wrote: »

True, and especially the argument part;)



I'm not trying to antagonize you Dermot but I see a problem with this analogy. You see a person knows they can in a physical sense witness a banana. In other words they can see one, and they know they can touch one. The same cannot be said for a god.

Sorry everybody for a long winded post but the fingers were tapping like mad!!!

And I'm not trying to convince you of anything either :cool: All again down to the banana. Without tasting it they dont know what it is only my description of it, mushy, nice after taste so hard to describe right? Now by them looking at it, do they know what it tastes like? They can only have an opinion or an idea of what it tastes like. Then their expectation of what it tastes like is ruined by my explaining to them what it was like. I thought it was beautiful they thought it was funny tasting :pac:

So the age old saying experience teaches wisdom. Where things went wrong generally is when those who had experience told others about it, they went on and told another who after a couple of years wrote it down, thus forming religious ideology. But the person at the start who had the experience is caught in the banana theory thus leading to others forming opinions on what it is.

Another example is water that springs from the source, someone drinks it and wow, so nice so refreshing, it flows down the mountain reaching the first village everyone drinks from the spring, washes their clothes in it and uses as a swimming hole and sewerage works, finally going through bigger towns and cities til the purer water from the top is so diluted it dont taste any good anymore. So your guess is which water is religion, from the source or from the last city before the ocean?

As for seeing a God-like figure etc, we live in the third dimension, the commonly held belief is they dont live in this realm, As for the Creator/Source Im not sure many people believe in a huge being in the sky is the Ultimate Source of everything all energy, all creation etc, as in the simpsons when Homer meets God. Yes people have PHYSICALLY seen Angel, mighty being etc and its formed religions all over the world from the Amazon to the forests in Indonesia, all cultures, all myths and legends etc, some of our own here in Ireland, some seeming profound others seeming unrealistic, some even seeming misguided. Maybe this is a reason why people generally dont contact with them or see them as they probably afraid a new religion could spring up because they popped in to the physical plane for a blink of an eye :D:D:D

Though where it gets funny is when people worship deities because they see them as more advanced than them etc.

Personally for me praying to the Source of Love from my own Heart and Feeling is the only way as automatically the Heart gets responses and the bliss and joy felt is beyond human comprehension.

Though to go back to the banana theory what good is it for me to say this to you? NONE. It serves no purpose. What good would it be for me to guide you how to use your Heart properly so you can re-establish this connection?

You see in no way am I trying to convince you to believe what I say etc, as its the wrong way, its just the same as the guy standing out in any city centre in the world telling people their all sinners and are gonna go to a very hot place when they die.

Truthfully though there is a part in a lot of skeptics etc who are waiting for something like this to help them see something so then they can be convinced in something else is out there. And until then, no amount of someone trying to convince them will actually help them, it will only serve the purpose generally of strengthening their own convictions.

But a lot of people are searching and unfortunately search in the wrong place, the brain, the centre of ego etc. Reading all new age books listening to other people's stories trying to form a truth so they can turn to another and pretend that they are more spiritually aware or advanced.

In some cases this can lead to arrogance etc, which in turn may not be good for them spiritually. In no way am I saying reading books is wrong but what is being said is they can usually learn more spiritually from going out and chatting to a homeless person and sitting down and having a cup of tea with them, than having all the knowledge about spiritual matters etc.

munsterdevil

dermothickey wrote: »

So the age old saying experience teaches wisdom. Where things went wrong generally is when those who had experience told others about it, they went on and told another who after a couple of years wrote it down, thus forming religious ideology. But the person at the start who had the experience is caught in the banana theory thus leading to others forming opinions on what it is.
Another example is water that springs from the source, someone drinks it and wow, so nice so refreshing, it flows down the mountain reaching the first village everyone drinks from the spring, washes their clothes in it and uses as a swimming hole and sewerage works, finally going through bigger towns and cities til the purer water from the top is so diluted it dont taste any good anymore. So your guess is which water is religion, from the source or from the last city before the ocean?

But how do we know that the original person was not mad, a liar, delusional, or all three? You see we know a banana and a water source is real, we can see them and taste them, we do not know how genuine these eye witness and hear say reports are, which is a major cornerstone of how many reject religion.

dermothickey wrote: »

As for seeing a God-like figure etc, we live in the third dimension, the commonly held belief is they dont live in this realm

You see that is what I find a total cop out in theology, “gods exist outside of our dimension, thus the laws of physics that apply to us does not apply to god”, it is rather.............. well, convenient.

dermothickey wrote: »

As for the Creator/Source Im not sure many people believe in a huge being in the sky is the Ultimate Source of everything all energy, all creation etc, as in the simpsons when Homer meets God. Yes people have PHYSICALLY seen Angel, mighty being etc and its formed religions all over the world from the Amazon to the forests in Indonesia, all cultures, all myths and legends etc, some of our own here in Ireland, some seeming profound others seeming unrealistic, some even seeming misguided. Maybe this is a reason why people generally dont contact with them or see them as they probably afraid a new religion could spring up because they popped in to the physical plane for a blink of an eye

I’m not trying to be offensive, and this is just my opinion, but anyone that claims they can “physically” see angels has serious mental problems. I’m not saying you can see them as I think you’re level headed enough for that.

dermothickey wrote: »

Though to go back to the banana theory what good is it for me to say this to you? NONE. It serves no purpose. What good would it be for me to guide you how to use your Heart properly so you can re-establish this connection?

You see in no way am I trying to convince you to believe what I say etc, as its the wrong way, its just the same as the guy standing out in any city centre in the world telling people their all sinners and are gonna go to a very hot place when they die.

Truthfully though there is a part in a lot of skeptics etc who are waiting for something like this to help them see something so then they can be convinced in something else is out there. And until then, no amount of someone trying to convince them will actually help them, it will only serve the purpose generally of strengthening their own convictions.

But a lot of people are searching and unfortunately search in the wrong place, the brain, the centre of ego etc. Reading all new age books listening to other people's stories trying to form a truth so they can turn to another and pretend that they are more spiritually aware or advanced.

I found myself a long time ago, when I left religion behind, and trust me when I did, it was a tremendous release. I’m thinking we were both at the same point in the spectrum at one time, and both of us chose to move to opposite ends, and as you say, both believe we are right!

dermothickey wrote: »

In no way am I saying reading books is wrong but what is being said is they can usually learn more spiritually from going out and chatting to a homeless person and sitting down and having a cup of tea with them, than having all the knowledge about spiritual matters etc.

I wouldn’t call that learning more about spirituality, I would call that getting in touch with one’s humanity.

Klingon Hamlet

I know there's no God. God wouldn't let innocent children die of starvation, or at the hands of abusers, or in the chaos of war. God would intervene in some way. We are advanced mammals, borne of nature. There are millions of Earth-like worlds in the universe, filled with beings like us. We are not special, and there is no Special Superpowered Parent-God watching over us.

What we do with our sliver of timne can be magical. How we live our lives can be special. When we're dust we're dust, so I hope my passion for life burns to the very end of the wick.

After our deaths, we fade away. that's why I want to leave an impression on my son and my friends, so there's an after-image when my light finally goes out.

dermothickey

munsterdevil wrote: »

But how do we know that the original person was not mad, a liar, delusional, or all three? You see we know a banana and a water source is real, we can see them and taste them, we do not know how genuine these eye witness and hear say reports are, which is a major cornerstone of how many reject religion.

That would be an ecumenical matter!!! On a more easier note, millions of people see ghosts/spirits etc, similar, there is more out there.

You see that is what I find a total cop out in theology, “gods exist outside of our dimension, thus the laws of physics that apply to us does not apply to god”, it is rather.............. well, convenient.

Have you ever seen down the rabbit hole? Its about quantum physics, too heavy for me but they in a laymans way try to explain the existence of a source, Now these are the most scientific heads out there and they generally believe in a Divine order etc. That aside this thread is turning in to a match about the existence of something beyond human comprehension which admittedly a lot of people have problems with.


I’m not trying to be offensive, and this is just my opinion, but anyone that claims they can “physically” see angels has serious mental problems. I’m not saying you can see them as I think you’re level headed enough for that.

Personally its not a good idea for me to judge another persons experience with the spiritual, we could go down the lines of was it an extra terrestrial sighting they saw and so on so forth, doesnt matter really, what matters is what became of it and why this happened this is where the story becomes more tangible, To hear that someone saw Angel and automatically think they are delusional is not something for me to get involved in.


I found myself a long time ago, when I left religion behind, and trust me when I did, it was a tremendous release. I’m thinking we were both at the same point in the spectrum at one time, and both of us chose to move to opposite ends, and as you say, both believe we are right!

Religion is here and it CAN serve a greater purpose but in reality its people/Humans who tend to mess with it that the problems arise, all the countless wars and insane acts created by MEN/WOMEN because of their beliefs.


I wouldn’t call that learning more about spirituality, I would call that getting in touch with one’s humanity.

When done with Love and understanding there is more to be gained spiritually for people. As in getting in touch with one's humanity, that is a spiritual exercise that has lasted down through the ages.

Either way while Im not trying to convince you of anything, as all this turns in to is a debate about the existence of something not in the physical. If by all means you would like to experience something try something that is level and not too airy fairy. Though my suggestion would be a weekend workshop which would include some deep meditation, give it a shot who knows, you may experience something either way you will probably find yourself more relaxed after a weekend of meditation than say drinking.

My answers are in the quote, sorry I havent figured out the whole multi-quote thing as of yet.

Denimgirl

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

I know there's no God. God wouldn't let innocent children die of starvation, or at the hands of abusers, or in the chaos of war. God would intervene in some way. We are advanced mammals, borne of nature. There are millions of Earth-like worlds in the universe, filled with beings like us. We are not special, and there is no Special Superpowered Parent-God watching over us.

What we do with our sliver of timne can be magical. How we live our lives can be special. When we're dust we're dust, so I hope my passion for life burns to the very end of the wick.

After our deaths, we fade away. that's why I want to leave an impression on my son and my friends, so there's an after-image when my light finally goes out.

I believe we live in a world of free will, that includes nature,God/higher being does not force us to do things, we choose to be good and bad,we are free to do as we please!IMO I always think it's to weed out the bad from the good, saying that I believe people choose to be bad and good!So therefore people who murder and abuse it is their choice but I also believe what we do in this world we will pay for it in the next!with every action there is a reaction, and I think it's silly to think that there is no higher level of inteligence than us! we don't know that much, there is many things in this world that are unexplained!

Klingon Hamlet

Denimgirl wrote: »

I believe we live in a world of free will, that includes nature,God/higher being does not force us to do things, we choose to be good and bad,we are free to do as we please!IMO I always think it's to weed out the bad from the good, saying that I believe people choose to be bad and good!So therefore people who murder and abuse it is their choice but I also believe what we do in this world we will pay for it in the next!with every action there is a reaction, and I think it's silly to think that there is no higher level of inteligence than us! we don't know that much, there is many things in this world that are unexplained!

So the Third World kids and the Fritzl kids should all feel better cos hey, the Next Life will reward them? They didn't choose their situation. They were born into it. "God" knows their plight, and does nothing? Doubtful---he intervenes throughout the Bible. What's changed now?

We have natural energies that can be tapped into. We're all made of stars. But we're not children of some absentee b'stard God. We're here in the dark, and we blaze our own paths. Suffering is inevitable for some, unavoidable for many, and unending for two-thrids of our world. We could as a world work together, but we are animals and our instinct is to compete in a rat race, or be the overlords peering down at the rodents from On High.

Our only choice is what we do with what we have.

Denimgirl

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

So the Third World kids and the Fritzl kids should all feel better cos hey, the Next Life will reward them? They didn't choose their situation. They were born into it. "God" knows their plight, and does nothing? Doubtful---he intervenes throughout the Bible. What's changed now?

We have natural energies that can be tapped into. We're all made of stars. But we're not children of some absentee b'stard God. We're here in the dark, and we blaze our own paths. Suffering is inevitable for some, unavoidable for many, and unending for two-thrids of our world. We could as a world work together, but we are animals and our instinct is to compete in a rat race, or be the overlords peering down at the rodents from On High.

Our only choice is what we do with what we have.

If we lived in a country of absolute poverty would you pro create? would you bring a child into your life when you know you have no money to feed or shelter it?I think it's more down to lack of education(and not their fault) that people still have children yet they know they can hardly feed themselves!that is their choice!not that I don't feel for them I do, but it's a choice!

Klingon Hamlet

Denimgirl wrote: »

If we lived in a country of absolute poverty would you pro create? would you bring a child into your life when you know you have no money to feed or shelter it?I think it's more down to lack of education(and not their fault) that people still have children yet they know they can hardly feed themselves!that is their choice!not that I don't feel for them I do, but it's a choice!

If they didn't procreate, they'd die out completely.