Project: Summer Race Machine

DirkVoodoo

Ok, so with Project: Winter Trainer done and dusted, I am now looking at phase two. I have wanted campagnolo for a while now, really just for the hood shape...and italian racing heritage which I think can only make me faster and unlock my real potential.

At the moment I am in the "I really don't deserve this" category and am quite content to race/be dropped on the planet x. I certainly can't blame the bike.

About a year ago I came across this photo which kind of sealed the move to campagnolo in my mind:



Anyway, I'm going off topic slightly here. My price point is very specific, I can't stretch to Chorus so I am at the Athena level. The only problem is that any forums I google have a lot of bad feeling towards 11 speed and people constantly give out about it. This means that now I am thinking about Centaur. Will campagnolo keep a 10 speed line up or will everything eventually move to 11? It looks like everyone else is happy at 10 and there is a sense that campagnolo's move to 11 was unnecessary.

Furthermore, Athena shares a lot of the consumable parts (chain, cassette, cables) with either chorus or record, meaning that while I might save a bit initially, the cost of replacements will be at chorus prices and so Centaur might again be the better buy.

Basically I am totally confused: Buy centaur and save money while still having a groupset suitable for racing, or buy centaur and find that it is going to be dropped for 11 speed next year? Should I get my foot on the 11 speed ladder now if buying campag?

I would be looking at a 52/39-12/25 setup in either 10 or 11 speed.

Thanks!

blorg

There is something wrong with the spokes on that back wheel.

DirkVoodoo

blorg wrote: »

There is something wrong with the spokes on that back wheel.

I just don't get it, paired spokes look sexy and remind me of sporty cars. Lovely wheels. Anyway, back on topic!

CheGuedara

Well if you go to 11 speed you can keep with the 39-53 and give yourself an extra bail out gear using a 12-27 or even 12-29.

I can't see them going back to 10 speed somehow and would imagine that before long 11 speed will filter down to centaur - could be worth getting in on the ladder rather find yourself wanting to upgrade relatively soon after building. If you go Athena you could always save a few quid and go for the alloy cranks too - they're probably as stiff as the carbon ones and the money saved could go into weight saving elsewhere.

I got my group from shinybikes.com - was competitively priced at the time but I suspect Slane Cycles are about the same, and if you can get the cyclingbargains site to work their prices are very good.

If you do go 11 speed consider giving Lickbike.com a call and buying a few sets of their 11 speed splitting links, I'm going to use them instead of joining the chain with the crazy priced chain tool. They won't take an order from europe over the net but if you call the shop they're OK

And re. Campag wheels - YES, that is all

godihatedehills

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I just don't get it, paired spokes look sexy and remind me of sporty cars. Lovely wheels. Anyway, back on topic!

Damn straight.

One of the girly highly technical methods I use to decide if a bike is any good is if the spokes on the front wheel have a different pattern to the back.
They are hawt wheels.

Chips Lovell

What complaints about 11 speed have you been reading? I haven't seen much griping apart from people saying it's unneccessary, which in fairness is said every time an extra sprocket is added.

Speaking for myself, I've been on it for about a year and I can't fault it. Just as reliable as the 10 speed stuff. If it were me, I'd go for Athena. Campagnolo switched to all 10 speed very quickly and they may well follow suit. It probably won't be long before they introduce more affordable consumables such as chains and cassettes. Next year will probably be the year they introduce the electronic groupset, but after that I'd say you'll see more or all 11-speed. For what it's worth, Campag chains have lasted longer for me than Shimano or KMC.

If you are still inclined for 10 speed, I have most of a group I plan to fix up and sell.

DirkVoodoo

@Che: What was delivery like from shinybikes? Does the groupset ship with all the cables? I'm guessing all I need to buy then is a front derailleur clamp and a seatpost collar...oh and a campagnolo freehub for my ksyriums....nuts!

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

What complaints about 11 speed have you been reading? I haven't seen much griping apart from people saying it's unneccessary, which in fairness is said every time an extra sprocket is added.

Speaking for myself, I've been on it for about a year and I can't fault it. Just as reliable as the 10 speed stuff. If it were me, I'd go for Athena. Campagnolo switched to all 10 speed very quickly and they may well follow suit. It probably won't be long before they introduce more affordable consumables such as chains and cassettes. Next year will probably be the year they introduce the electronic groupset, but after that I'd say you'll see more or all 11-speed. For what it's worth, Campag chains have lasted longer for me than Shimano or KMC.

If you are still inclined for 10 speed, I have most of a group I plan to fix up and sell.

Mostly that, I don't have any quotes on hand but the general feeling was that the move to 11 speed was unnecessary so soon after most of the range moved to 10 speed and that the huge price discounts found on 11 speed stuff meant that it was not as successful as they had hoped.

I don't believe it really, but I am easily confused.

I pretty much had my heart set on Athena until a few days ago. That shiny bikes price is really good, more or less the same as merlin.

CheGuedara

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

@Che: What was delivery like from shinybikes? Does the groupset ship with all the cables? I'm guessing all I need to buy then is a front derailleur clamp and a seatpost collar...oh and a campagnolo freehub for my ksyriums....nuts!

Delivery was fast, inside a week once they received payment. Keep in mind that the prices on the site are incl. UK VAT. They'll update your price to include Irish VAT so it'll be a wee bit more getting it to us here. If you've any relatives in the UK you could get it at UK rate, mail it to them and have them send on to you you might save a bit more again.

Comes with everything including a full cable kit/set so no need to look elsewhere and I'd be surprised if they couldn't sort you out with the rest too. Was talking to the owner over the phone - nice guy, raced the Ras in the 90's so you can be sure you're dealing with someone who knows their bikes not just some sales person at the end of a PC

Lumen

godihatedehills wrote: »

Damn straight.

One of the girly highly technical methods I use to decide if a bike is any good is if the spokes on the front wheel have a different pattern to the back.
They are hawt wheels.

Excellent. Paired/tripletted spoke patterns are from this point on to be referred to as "girly spokes".

sy

Only realised you got a blue Planet X when I saw the photos from Saturday's race. Best of luck with it.
As for the Groupset dilemma, I must say that there doesn't seem to be much of a price difference between the Carbon Centaur and Athena ( I'm sure there are better prices). I have had Chorus but it was 8 speed!(my previous was a 7 speed) and as Tonto said when they add an extra ring everyone says they are not required. I progressed to a 9 then 10 and my next bike will be 11!(At the rate I'm cycling now probably a 12!!) Moral of the story, buy the 11 speed you won't be sorry. If you can wait, save for the Chorus, the best groupset I've ridden down through the years (including Dura Ace) and it is extremely durable.

PS don't like the "girly spokes"

lukester

Go with Athena. Mulled over this same question recently looking at build options for a frameset. Many things pointed towards Athena over Centaur- but what swayed it for me was Campy will no doubt move most, if not everything, to 11 speed sooner or later.

Girly spokes FTW.

crashoveroid

If you can save for a bit longer and go for the Chorus well worth it.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

There is something wrong with the spokes on that back wheel.

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I just don't get it, paired spokes look sexy and remind me of sporty cars. Lovely wheels.

CheGuedara wrote: »

And re. Campag wheels - YES, that is all

godihatedehills wrote: »

They are hawt wheels.

sy wrote: »

PS don't like the "girly spokes"

lukester wrote: »

Girly spokes FTW.

Here are some water bottles to go with your wheels. They sort of match the Orwell kit too.

Billy Whizz

Scratch that, I think it's been sold.

DirkVoodoo

crashoveroid wrote: »

If you can save for a bit longer and go for the Chorus well worth it.

No, don't tempt me! I have thought about it, but the price of replacement parts in the event of a crash is a bit of a turn off for me.

Looking at shiny bikes and they offer a clamp on FD, but come out more expensive than merlin even after I add a braze-on adapter to the basket. The difference is marginal.

levitronix

Lumen wrote: »

Here are some water bottles to go with your wheels. They sort of match the Orwell kit too.

Ha Ha Grame Obree often fueled up on marmite !! he put it on bread

Chips Lovell

One more thing, if it's to be used as a race bike, don't bother with a 12-25 cassette. You'll rarely need the small ring in Irish races, let alone a 25 sprocket. Get an 11-23 or 11-21.

sy

el tonto wrote: »

One more thing, if it's to be used as a race bike, don't bother with a 12-25 cassette. You'll rarely need the small ring in Irish races, let alone a 25 sprocket. Get an 11-23 or 11-21.

+1 Much smoother changing

levitronix

I agree the smaller casstte shifts so much nicer quicker and quieter and no clinking when under load,

DirkVoodoo bring the 11-21 with you next devils glen attack

DirkVoodoo

The athena has arrived! Need to pick up some small bits and pieces, along with new headset bearings as I have just discovered after cleaning the Ridley frame. Nuts.

DirkVoodoo

Balls, balls, balls! Another minor hiccup: Waiting for some parts to arrive from CRC so I can finish this, including a Mavic freehub. I emailed them before ordering and they told me that the ED10 was compatible with the campagnolo 11 speed cassette. This is true, to a degree. Unfortunately campagnolo designed the cassette so that the extra cog could be accomodated not only by making each one narrower and the spacing closer, but by having the larger cog sit further back on the cassette, closer to the spokes. To make the ED10 an ED11 freehub, I need to get my hands on a 0.55mm spacer. I'm going to ring around tomorrow and see if I can get one, but if anyone already knows which shop in Dublin might stock one this would be a great help.

Almost tempted to sell the Ksyriums and just buy some Carbone SLs with the ED11 freehub, that would probably be the easier solution, right???

Chips Lovell

Getting the spacer is probably the easiest solution. But I think if you're selling the Ksyriums, now's the time to do it since you've hardly used them and you'll probably get a better price. Depends on your budget I guess.

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

Getting the spacer is probably the easiest solution. But I think if you're selling the Ksyriums, now's the time to do it since you've hardly used them and you'll probably get a better price. Depends on your budget I guess.

If (Big IF) I were to sell them and upgrade, would I be going for the clincher or tubular?

sy

Cosmic Carbone's €750 on Wiggle (with voucher code) if you purchase before midnight

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

If (Big IF) I were to sell them and upgrade, would I be going for the clincher or tubular?

Well the Carbone SLs are only available in clinchers. Or are you considering trying to find tubs in the same price bracket?

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

Well the Carbone SLs are only available in clinchers. Or are you considering trying to find tubs in the same price bracket?

Oh no, I was just wondering whether or not clinchers were a good buy or not.

@Sy: Darn, no way I would have the ksyriums sold and money to buy those in time. I think I will just get the spacer, it's handy having the ksyriums and I think I can wait another year for some deep section wheels

sy

Just teasing Dirk, to be honest you would be crazy to sell those Mavics at this stage. Looking forward to seeing and hearing your report on the the new Athena kit

Must accumulate a few points before you buy carbon wheels

DirkVoodoo

sy wrote: »

Must accumulate a few points before you buy carbon wheels

This is my thinking at the moment, I need to earn at least something before I buy it from now on!

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Oh no, I was just wondering whether or not clinchers were a good buy or not.

Tonnes of folk race on them and they get great reports in terms of durability, so they look like a good buy. Only question is whether you think it's worth your while right now.

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

Tonnes of folk race on them and they get great reports in terms of durability, so they look like a good buy. Only question is whether you think it's worth your while right now.

Probably not....

Is this the new boards: Sensible decision making? Where are the little voices saying do it, complete with obligatory starsky and hutch "do it" animated gif?

Chips Lovell

Ah I see. So you really want them and just want the rest of us to tell you you'd be a fool not to.

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

Ah I see. So you really want them and just want the rest of us to tell you you'd be a fool not to.

Something like that

niceonetom

Ahem...

BUY THE WHEELS DIRK!!! YOU'D BE A FOOL NOT TO!!! WHAT USE IS AN 11 SPROCKET CASSETTE IF IT'S ON SILLY NON-DEEP-SECTION WHEELS???

Hope this helps.

DirkVoodoo

Rang cycleogical: I had barely finished asking when he reponded "no, no we don't". Maybe it's my prejudice against buying from them again, but it sounded more like the "No, I couldn't be arsed finding out" rather than the more delayed memory scanning "No, I'm pretty sure we don't stock these, my memory is so great I know exactly what we have in stock".

Rang cyclesuperstore: "No, never had to use one" (really, despite it being designed by Mavic specifically to accomodate an 11 sprocket design of campagnolos that could potentially destroy a rear wheel?), but he was more helpful and after I explained the exact design problem he said if I ran into trouble to call down.

Well, if anyone wants a set of Ksyrium SL premiums for 580 euro (hardly used, not willing to take a hit on them, sorry!) let me know. Disaster!

blorg

You have to take a hit selling anything. So the decision is do you take the hit or do you keep the wheels. I'm sure you will be able to get the cassette on.

Lumen

Can you clarify exactly what you're looking for, and why?

Is it a spacer that is thinner than the 10sp one, to get the sprockets closer to the spokes?

How did you come up with 0.55mm?

edit: Is it this one?

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

Can you clarify exactly what you're looking for, and why?

Is it a spacer that is thinner than the 10sp one, to get the sprockets closer to the spokes?

How did you come up with 0.55mm?

http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2009/04/campagnolo-11-speed-and-mavic-wheels.html

It's an actual part sold by Mavic, the specifications are 0.55mm, looking at the "depression" in the back of an 11 speed cassette, I would guess this is about 1/2 millimeter thick.

EDIT: Yes. $40 for a piece of metal...hmmm, might see if I can get someone in college to machine one.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

EDIT: Yes. $40 for a piece of metal...hmmm, might see if I can get someone in college to machine one.

The CC price is $4, not $40. Just order one from them.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

The CC price is $4, not $40. Just order one from them.

Shipping estimate of 36 bucks.

I took a photo of the spacing on the shimano freehub with 10 speed cassette. I guess I will just wait for the CRC order to arrive and see what it is like:

DirkVoodoo

Right, I will hold on to them so. 770 for those carbones is tempting.

Would 570 for the Ksyriums with a 105 cassette be a decent deal?

mockler007

nice bike dirkie,
i bet you sleep with it and make it a full fry in the morning

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Right, I will hold on to them so. 770 for those carbones is tempting.

Would 570 for the Ksyriums with a 105 cassette be a decent deal?

If they are new or VERY nearly I'd say you might get that.

I'd get them sold though before you buy the new ones.

DirkVoodoo

blorg wrote: »

If they are new or VERY nearly I'd say you might get that.

I'd get them sold though before you buy the new ones.

Yeah I'm trying to tell myself not to buy the carbones.

VERY nearly new: Used once when I got them, then once during the orwell pre season race and occasionally (less than 5 times maybe?) as a rear turbo wheel (which would only impact bearing lift and not braking surface wear).

I will probably hang onto them though, the offer ends at midnight and I'm thinking just wait till next year.

blorg

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I will probably hang onto them though, the offer ends at midnight and I'm thinking just wait till next year.

I'd stick an ad up with a limited sell by date if I was serious about selling them.

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

I'd stick an ad up with a limited sell by date if I was serious about selling them.

Good thinking, done! Finally got some nice photos too, no more blurry images!

abcdggs

Just to tempt you with some ebay goodness