Dog wandered into apartment

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hey all.

Right, myself and my girlfriend live in an apartment building. Girlfriend heard howling out in the hallway today, so she went out and seen a small dog howling in the hall, so she took it into our apartment. Dog seems very timid, shy and upset. We walked it up the hall and it stopped at a door two up from ours, but we knocked several times with no reply.

Thing is, the dog was terribly hungry and thirsty when we fed and watered it, and my girlfriend thinks it may have been beaten, as it shies away whenever its bum is patted (maybe bruising).

I don't like the thought of a dog being returned to a potentially abusive or neglectful owner, so I'm thinking we keep the dog, and return it only if we see posters up looking for it. The dog couldn't have opened the door itself, or got onto a different floor itself.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

mymo

I would wait and try the neighbours this evening.
Just because the dog shies away when you touch its bum doesn't mean its been beaten, could have and injury or bad hips or any number of other problems. He's scared and lost and you're strangers to him, so he will act strange around you. I have a dog here who has never been hit or hurt by a person in his life but doesn't like strange adults to touch him and will move away from them, kids are fine just adults, no idea why, doesn't mean he's been beaten.
He could be someones much loved pet, just let him relax and try knocking on doors later. If no one knows him report it to guards and put up some notices locally.

Jimmy Bottlehead

See, my main concern is that the dog was neglected - if we put up notices, there's a chance the person will take the dog back and keep neglecting it. Or else someone will see it as a chance to get a free dog. I know if it was my dog missing, I'd be knocking on all the doors, putting up notices, etc... and there's no way the dog could get out of an apartment on its own. We've not heard a thing since the dog came in from anybody

Jimmy Bottlehead

I get you. But I can't help but be concerned for the dog. It really does appear neglected. And there's no way it could have gotten into the hallway without someone letting it out. Therefore, if someone let it out, if they cared for it they'd make sure it came back in. We've not heard a knock on the door or anything since we found the dog.

I also figure if the owner was that worried, they'd be knocking around the building already. If we put up posters, either the owner (who mustn't care less) will be nasty to the dog again, or else someone will see it as a chance to have a free dog.

morganafay

Maybe if you take it to the vet then the vet can help figure out if it is neglected, like if it's underweight or has any injuries?

If it's in an apartment building then the owner would surely go knocking on everyone's doors if they cared.

But then again, would they just abandon it in the hallway? Surely they'd abandon it in the street or something? Could the dog have come in from outside if it followed someone through the doors or something?

ISDW

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I get you. But I can't help but be concerned for the dog. It really does appear neglected. And there's no way it could have gotten into the hallway without someone letting it out. Therefore, if someone let it out, if they cared for it they'd make sure it came back in. We've not heard a knock on the door or anything since we found the dog.

I also figure if the owner was that worried, they'd be knocking around the building already. If we put up posters, either the owner (who mustn't care less) will be nasty to the dog again, or else someone will see it as a chance to have a free dog.

They might not necessarily knock on doors in an apartment block, if they were walking the dog and it ran away, the dog may make its way back home. The owner could be out looking for it, and may have even come home to see if the dog was there, but obviously wouldn't find it as its in your apartment, and wouldn't even consider the possibility of you having the dog. Have you ever seen it being walked?

You could take the dog to the vet and see if its microchipped, that will have the owners details on it.

I'm just thinking of a few dogs that I have rehomed, that would act that way around strangers, it takes a long time to get their trust because of how they were treated before coming into rescue.

Sid_Justice

You can't really play finders keepers with other peoples pets. You've no evidence to suggest the dog has been neglected, it's still possible it escaped from someone's home and they are looking for him but can't find him. That's why he was scared, thirsty and hungry.

I understand you're in an apartment complex so it's hard to imagine how it's gone missing without someone coming around looking for it. But if the real owner does live nearby, it's going to be difficult for you to hide the dog anyway, what will you do in two weeks if he tries to take it back? Claim it as your own?

you should put a sign up saying found dog in the appropriate places but continue to look after the dog in the mean time.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud your good intentions but what you're doing isn't too far away from stealing.

CreedonsDogDayc

definitely bring him to be scanned to check if he has a chip, the dog could have been carried into your apartment by children who found it, so it may not belong to one of your neighbours.

Magenta

OP I am glad you care about the dog but my animals are the same, they don't like strangers. I have never hit any of them and if someone took one of my animals because they assumed I had beaten it, I would go nuts.

Graces7

Amen to that.

Collie still blenches and cowers if you try to pat her head because she was so abused before we had her.

Sometimes she "just" manages not to. Which is huge progress.

Magenta wrote: »

OP I am glad you care about the dog but my animals are the same, they don't like strangers. I have never hit any of them and if someone took one of my animals because they assumed I had beaten it, I would go nuts.

Michael B

Any luck since OP?

I really do think people can be so harsh on here sometimes, he's worried about the dog and regardless of someone else owning him or not, if he's pretty sure the dog is being neglected then I wouldn't want to let go of him either! Sorry but I couldn't give a dog back to someone if I thought he was being neglected or they were being cruel to him, I don't care if someone owns him. Yes I do know the rules and laws but it still doesn't make it morally right!

Hope there's a happy ending for this OP, let us know. And good on you for taking him in and looking after him.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Michael B wrote: »

Any luck since OP?

I really do think people can be so harsh on here sometimes, he's worried about the dog and regardless of someone else owning him or not, if he's pretty sure the dog is being neglected then I wouldn't want to let go of him either! Sorry but I couldn't give a dog back to someone if I thought he was being neglected or they were being cruel to him, I don't care if someone owns him. Yes I do know the rules and laws but it still doesn't make it morally right!

Hope there's a happy ending for this OP, let us know. And good on you for taking him in and looking after him.

Thanks Michael.

Update since is that nobody has knocked on the door, no notices up in or around the apartment block, nothing to indicate somebody cares about the wee dog. She's being fed and looked after well here, can't imagine why somebody just let her go and didn't look for her

Just to point out, as soon as somebody looks for her, we'll be giving her back, but I can't honestly trust someone who can't be arsed looking for her, and who seems to have not fed her or given her water or attention. Its not us 'stealing' someones else dog - all the owners on here who love their dogs would have put up posters and checked doors.

ISDW

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Thanks Michael.

Update since is that nobody has knocked on the door, no notices up in or around the apartment block, nothing to indicate somebody cares about the wee dog. She's being fed and looked after well here, can't imagine why somebody just let her go and didn't look for her

Just to point out, as soon as somebody looks for her, we'll be giving her back, but I can't honestly trust someone who can't be arsed looking for her, and who seems to have not fed her or given her water or attention. Its not us 'stealing' someones else dog - all the owners on here who love their dogs would have put up posters and checked doors.

Not necessarily, she could have been stolen and dumped, unfortunately it happens all the time. Have you checked the lost and found websites? Her owner could have put posters up in their locality, but it may not be anywhere near you. Please get her checked for a microchip and put her details up on the sites. There have been stories of dogs missing for over a year - there was one recently over 2 years, the owners had done everything they could to find the dog, but the dog was stolen and moved on to a different county, they are also moved between here and the UK. Please don't make assumptions about owners, if she was stolen, the people who took her could have abused and neglected her.

Legally, you have to inform the local Gardai and the pound.

Magenta

Michael B wrote: »

I really do think people can be so harsh on here sometimes, he's worried about the dog and regardless of someone else owning him or not, if he's pretty sure the dog is being neglected then I wouldn't want to let go of him either! Sorry but I couldn't give a dog back to someone if I thought he was being neglected or they were being cruel to him, I don't care if someone owns him.

I have a completely unfounded assumption that my neighbour who I have never met, does not look after his car properly. So should I steal it?

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Thanks Michael.

Update since is that nobody has knocked on the door, no notices up in or around the apartment block, nothing to indicate somebody cares about the wee dog. She's being fed and looked after well here, can't imagine why somebody just let her go and didn't look for her

Just to point out, as soon as somebody looks for her, we'll be giving her back, but I can't honestly trust someone who can't be arsed looking for her, and who seems to have not fed her or given her water or attention. Its not us 'stealing' someones else dog - all the owners on here who love their dogs would have put up posters and checked doors.

Has it occurred to you that maybe they are looking for the dog but you just haven't seen the notices/ads? Unless you have checked every lamppost, website, newspaper, vet and police station in the country..
Let's face it, what you are doing is stealing.

Graces7

God reward you, Jimmy!

kildara

Michael B wrote: »

I really do think people can be so harsh on here sometimes, he's worried about the dog and regardless of someone else owning him or not, if he's pretty sure the dog is being neglected then I wouldn't want to let go of him either! Sorry but I couldn't give a dog back to someone if I thought he was being neglected or they were being cruel to him, I don't care if someone owns him. Yes I do know the rules and laws but it still doesn't make it morally right!

Unless the OP is a vet or a behaviourist how can he be entirely sure that the dog is neglected? Being pretty sure could land you in a whole lot of trouble.
My dog is is head-shy, no idea why. He's never been beaten. If he got away, was stolen or whatever, and somebody had him and decided to keep him just because they were pretty sure he'd been abused due to him cowering when you go near his head - I would not be very happy.

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Just to point out, as soon as somebody looks for her, we'll be giving her back, but I can't honestly trust someone who can't be arsed looking for her, and who seems to have not fed her or given her water or attention. Its not us 'stealing' someones else dog - all the owners on here who love their dogs would have put up posters and checked doors.

Did you bring her to a vet to see if she was chipped or has indeed been neglected?
She may have been stolen from another town (a few days prior to you finding her) and dumped in your locality which could be why you don't see any signs/posters/people looking for her, and why she appeared hungry.

Or - you may be spot on and she might have been abused and neglected, in which case you are dead right for your concern.

Either way, well done on looking after her.

morganafay

I would keep her too, if I thought she was neglected or abused. At least she is happy and well looked after now, I hope everything will work out for the best anyway.

morganafay

At least she is happy and well looked after, that's the main thing.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Magenta wrote: »

I have a completely unfounded assumption that my neighbour who I have never met, does not look after his car properly. So should I steal it?



Has it occurred to you that maybe they are looking for the dog but you just haven't seen the notices/ads? Unless you have checked every lamppost, website, newspaper, vet and police station in the country..
Let's face it, what you are doing is stealing.

Yes, what I'm doing it stealing. Taking in a lost, frightened and hungry dog out of the hall, feeding it and buying it bits out of my own (limited) money - that's definitely stealing.

I've checked the damned apartment block, every floor, and around the area, for posters and notices. I repeat, THE DOG CAN'T GET INTO THE BUILDING OR ONTO ANOTHER FLOOR WITHOUT HUMAN ASSISTANCE. And considering her obsession with a door down the hall (with no answer), I've done all I can. I'm not prepared to give it to the pound to get put down, and I'm sure as hell not going to chuck her out like someone else did.
So if this is your definition of stealing, then I stole the f*cking dog and I'm glad to have done so.

Maybe I was better off not posting here at all. Jesus. I expected some helpful comments, not accusations of thieving. :mad:

Jimmy Bottlehead

Also, I've rang the DSPCA, checked the sites, and talked to the pound, nobody has reported her missing. We're going to get her checked for a chip in the next day or two, and once that's done thats all we can do.

Magenta

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

If you're the type of poster who posts here in pets/animal issues, then maybe I was better off not posting here at all. Jesus. I expected some helpful comments, not accusations of thieving. :mad:

I am not accusing you of stealing. You admit it yourself that you are indeed stealing. And you are accusing the owner of neglect and abuse.
Congratulations, you're a thief.

Discodog

You are not stealing or breaking the law in any way as long as you notify your nearest Garda station or Dog warden. You do need to get a dog license asap as it is the accepted proof of ownership under Irish law.

The law is as follows:

Section 13(1)(c) of the 1986 Act allows a person to keep a dog provided they:-

Give a notice to the local Gardai or dog warden containing the following information-
I) A description of the dog,
ii) A statement as to where the dog was found,
iii) the dog’s new address.

"If the person who is a licenced owner of the dog comes to claim him the finder/other person must give him back. However if the finder retains possession of the dog for a period of one year or more, the finder can become the new owner of the dog, the previous owner’s title becomes extinguished."

Note the phrase licensed owner. To reclaim a dog the owner would have to produce a dog license valid for when the dog went missing.

The owner of the dog has already broken the law by not having a name tag on it's collar.

ISDW

Another possible scenario. If she is indeed owned by the people two doors away, maybe they're on holiday and she's been left in someone else's care, escaped and made her way home? If so, her owner may not even know she's missing.

I'm not saying that is the case, but it is another possibility.

Just to let you know the legal position - unless the dog does its official 5 days at the pound, then you won't own it until one year and one day after you found it.

I don't think anybody doesn't admire you for looking after the dog so well, but there have just been so many stolen dogs with distraught owners looking for them, it would be awful if she is one of them. Get her scanned for the chip as soon as you can, and hopefully it will answer some questions.

Magenta

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

We're going to get her checked for a chip in the next day or two, and once that's done thats all we can do.

No, it isn't. You could advertise yourself to say you have found her.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Magenta wrote: »

I am not accusing you of stealing.

Magenta wrote: »

Let's face it, what you are doing is stealing.

Good going. Well done.

Thanks for the replies IDSW and Discodog. I talked to the DSPCA and they said the same thing, once i let Ashtown pound know about it, I'd fulfilled my legal obligations. They said informing the Gardai is optional, but once the pound is contacted, thats the main thing.

They also said about the year and a day thing, so I think we'll do that. But first the chip check. If that comes up clear, we'll get a licence.

Thanks to the people who posted helpful replies, and to the ones who were unhelpful... its best not to say :pac:

star-pants

Magenta Infracted
People can we have less of the name calling please. If there's a problem post use the Report Post function rather than replying to it.

Edit- My warning about name calling extends to insulting other members and it refers to all posters

morganafay

Hmmm, it's a tough situation. You rescued the dog and obviously want the best for it.

But the owner could care for it too. Maybe they just think it's stolen and don't think there's any point putting up posters. Or some other reason why they haven't.

Maybe at least put one poster up in the building saying the dog was found?

If they are neglecting it and leaving it out in the hall then they might not ask for it back anyway. But if they want it back (whether they will treat it right or not) then you have to give it back. Then if you think it's in danger then you can call the ISPCA or whatever. They'll probably see you with the dog eventually anyway, so you might aswell put up a poster just to cover yourself, so they don't accuse you of stealing.

Whispered

Hey OP, fair play for holding onto the dog and looking after him/her. I'm glad the dog is happy and being looked after.

While talking about legalities and what you HAVE to do is all well and good, please understand that this may be someones pet. I know it does not appear that way, but if there is even a chance the dog could have been stolen elsewhere and dumped near your building, maybe following someone in. You really should do your best to find his or her owner. There are often people here who are distraught at loosing their dog and as said above, dogs are often stolen and moved around. It is one of my biggest fears for my own dog and of course we are very careful, but it can happen even to the best owners.

I know if my boy went missing I would be sick with worry, guilt and fear.

You called the pound and left a description. Thats a start, unfortunately pounds tend to be less than helpful when people call them. Your best bet would be to post a picture on various sites and look for the owner. You will know if someone contacts you whether they are the owner or not, you can have your own questions ready to verify so don't worry about that.

Now from your description of events, that may not be the case at all but if the dog is owned and dumped by the neighbour I can't imagine them dumping him in the hallway. It's all a bit strange. Could the dog have followed someone up? Could kids have brought him up? You really do need to look for an owner, if none turn up, then you can enjoy your new pet with the knowledge that you did your best to return him home.

In the meantime, well done on taking her in.

Graces7

One small point.

You say the dog is preoccupied with a door there and there is no answer?

Do you know the people? There could be eg illness or worse in there. It happens.

Michael B

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Good going. Well done.

Thanks for the replies IDSW and Discodog. I talked to the DSPCA and they said the same thing, once i let Ashtown pound know about it, I'd fulfilled my legal obligations. They said informing the Gardai is optional, but once the pound is contacted, thats the main thing.

They also said about the year and a day thing, so I think we'll do that. But first the chip check. If that comes up clear, we'll get a licence.

Thanks to the people who posted helpful replies, and to the ones who were unhelpful... its best not to say :pac:

Don't worry about it Jimmy, just listen to the ones that are trying to help you. Best of luck, I hope it all gets sorted and well done for being kind to the dog.

keep us posted

annefitzy

Graces7 wrote: »

One small point.

You say the dog is preoccupied with a door there and there is no answer?

Do you know the people? There could be eg illness or worse in there. It happens.

I was thinking the same thing