Considering taking up biking - cost / safety / license checks..

thirtythirty

While down near Glendalough at the weekend in the sunshine, I couldn't help but be jealous of the hundreds of bikers about, and being with my mate who speaks very passionately about bikes and is just graduating up to a bmw (not sure of the model - think The Long Way Round one) didn't help much either.

So. Before I impulsivly do something on a whim, I have a few questions. First, do these costs seem about right:

Yamaha TDR 125 - €1200
Full set of gear from Lidl - €160 (I have a helmet from my moped days!)
Tax - €50ish
Insurance - €250 - €300 (This is really where my question is. This is what my mate said he had with AON.ie, but their online quotation system is down, and Quinn said €1000!)

So if that was the case, then it looks like I could be set up for ~€2000. Whether or not I decide to blow that amount of money on a bike simply for a bit of weekend riding, probably mainly during the summer, I haven't decided yet...In the meantime I'm working the rest of the stuff out.

From the looks of it, I can get a provisional A(1?) licence which will let me have a 125 just by filling in a form from the garda station. Apparantly there's some safety course though you can do which is v good, and also then gives you "full licence rates" for insurance if you pass. Anyone know what this course is actually called? How much is it?

And lastly, does it hurt if you ever come off!? I had a moped from 16 - 19 and never had any crashes. I did have some wiggles from the front wheel slipping going round corners though, and Im a bit worried about what that would be like on a motorbike - I feel like I paid an awful lot of attention to what my front tyre was on, particularly in the wet. On the dual carriage way in the rain I would never drive on the bus lane line paint, I avoided all manhole covers while leaning and turning, and i used the front brake very little...is that being paranoid? Do bike often just slip out their front wheel, or am I being over cautious?

Cheers.

KamiKazi

spottyelephant wrote: »

Yamaha TDR 125 - €1200
Full set of gear from Lidl - €160 (I have a helmet from my moped days!)
Tax - €50ish
Insurance - €250 - €300 (This is really where my question is. This is what my mate said he had with AON.ie, but their online quotation system is down, and Quinn said €1000!)

I'd spend a bit more on gear, while most of the Lidl stuff is great I'm not sure if I'd trust their gear in an off. You'd be doing well to get insurance that cheap IMO, head over to Quinn Directs website and get a quote.

spottyelephant wrote: »

From the looks of it, I can get a provisional A(1?) licence which will let me have a 125 just by filling in a form from the garda station. Apparantly there's some safety course though you can do which is v good, and also then gives you "full licence rates" for insurance if you pass. Anyone know what this course is actually called? How much is it?

An A license will allow you to ride a bike of any CC as long as it's under 33BHP. There's a power to weight restriction also but that really only affects two stroke 125s and the like. Most riding instructors can run the course for insurance assessments, not all insurance companies accept these though.

spottyelephant wrote: »

And lastly, does it hurt if you ever come off!? I had a moped from 16 - 19 and never had any crashes. I did have some wiggles from the front wheel slipping going round corners though, and Im a bit worried about what that would be like on a motorbike - I feel like I paid an awful lot of attention to what my front tyre was on, particularly in the wet. On the dual carriage way in the rain I would never drive on the bus lane line paint, I avoided all manhole covers while leaning and turning, and i used the front brake very little...is that being paranoid? Do bike often just slip out their front wheel, or am I being over cautious?

Yes, coming off hurts Road rash really hurts, so wear all your gear all the time and you shouldn't be hurt too badly unless it's a really severe off. You can never be too careful on a bike, and most noobies wouldn't even know to look for paint lines and manhole covers in the wet so you're off to a good start.

Good luck anyway

jameshayes

KamiKazi wrote: »

I'd spend a bit more on gear, while most of the Lidl stuff is great I'm not sure if I'd trust their gear in an off. You'd be doing well to get insurance that cheap IMO, head over to Quinn Directs website and get a quote.

An A license will allow you to ride a bike of any CC as long as it's under 33BHP. There's a power to weight restriction also but that really only affects two stroke 125s and the like. Most riding instructors can run the course for insurance assessments, not all insurance companies accept these though.

Yes, coming off hurts Road rash really hurts, so wear all your gear all the time and you shouldn't be hurt too badly unless it's a really severe off. You can never be too careful on a bike, and most noobies wouldn't even know to look for paint lines and manhole covers in the wet so you're off to a good start.

Good luck anyway

Couldn't have said it better!

cantdecide

I got a mad figary in the beginning of 2008 after a similar experience to yours. 7 months later, I was on my dream (2nd) bike (although restricted) with a full license in my hand. All it took was 1 day training/ assessment and 1 pretest lesson and a good deliberate effort with practise.

My point isn't that I'm great, it's that it's all do-able.

Just do it. You know it makes sense...

Idleater

spottyelephant wrote: »

Insurance - €250 - €300 (This is really where my question is. This is what my mate said he had with AON.ie, but their online quotation system is down, and Quinn said €1000!)

I think you should be sitting down - preferably in a comfortable chair - when you ring them for an insurance quote.

KTRIC

:cool:

nereid wrote: »

I think you should be sitting down - preferably in a comfortable chair - when you ring them for an insurance quote.

Actually I think the correct position is lying over a barrel

Idleater

KTRIC wrote: »

:cool:

Actually I think the correct position is lying over a barrel

Nah, he is applying for his first quote, not a renewal.

They have you suckered at renewal time, you still have a chance when starting out. i.e. if you get over the first shock, then it only gets easier (unless you do something silly).

RosieJoe

KTRIC wrote: »

:cool:

Actually I think the correct position is lying over a barrel

I thought "bent over" would be a better description of the position

How old is your lid and what condition is it in? You may need to get a new one if it's in shíte or is more than 5 years old.

thirtythirty

Insurance is really what's going to make or break it for me. I rang them (while sitting down) and got told ~€450, or ~€360 with training. Do you know if it's possible to get "weekend only" insurance or something along the lines? I can't really justify the €500 for the amount im going to be using it!

As for gear, i don't really have any problem spending more on it. I just saw the Lidl gear and heard good reports so that's why was leaning towards it.

Helmet could probably be replaced tbh - its in good cond and never been dropped or anything, but just for the sake of it's age (5 - 6 yrs).

Insurance aside (haven't made a decision yet) - what about courses? Is the Motorcycle Rider Training one the only one that reduces insurance? It's €850...seems very expensive??

Cuddlesworth

spottyelephant wrote: »

Insurance is really what's going to make or break it for me. I rang them (while sitting down) and got told ~€450, or ~€360 with training. Do you know if it's possible to get "weekend only" insurance or something along the lines? I can't really justify the €500 for the amount im going to be using it!

I paid 1360 first year on a bike. I'm amazed you got a quote that low.

No weekend insurance, not worth it for them.

spottyelephant wrote: »

As for gear, i don't really have any problem spending more on it. I just saw the Lidl gear and heard good reports so that's why was leaning towards it.

It's supposed to be decent. Not good, just decent. I wouldn't want to take a tumble wearing it though.

spottyelephant wrote: »

Helmet could probably be replaced tbh - its in good cond and never been dropped or anything, but just for the sake of it's age (5 - 6 yrs).

Defiantly replace it.

spottyelephant wrote: »

Insurance aside (haven't made a decision yet) - what about courses? Is the Motorcycle Rider Training one the only one that reduces insurance? It's €850...seems very expensive??

David Lyons will do a AON assessment over three hours on one of his bikes for 190. A decent price, will pay itself off over two years.

KamiKazi

You can pay the insurance in installments over 10 months so it's not one big lump of cash you have to hand over.

jameshayes

spottyelephant wrote: »

Helmet could probably be replaced tbh - its in good cond and never been dropped or anything, but just for the sake of it's age (5 - 6 yrs).

Yer supposed to change every 4 years... prob best to get other one...

spottyelephant wrote: »

Insurance aside (haven't made a decision yet) - what about courses? Is the Motorcycle Rider Training one the only one that reduces insurance? It's €850...seems very expensive??

I dont think that one reduces your insurance at all... what you need to do is go get a Quinn Rider assessment or an AON rider assessment (respective to whatever insurance company your with) this is about 200 quid and can bring your insurance down 10 - 40% (brought mine down 30%)

ogriofa

Haya,
dont want to put a dampner on it, and you look like you have taken everything into acount... but biking isn't cheap.
You get what you pay for (generally) in biking terms, Id stay away from the Lidl stuff.
You havent said anything about lessons, I wont drone on, but you really do need lessons. If you get an insurance training course this will reduce your training by a good chunk

Also, why a 125? You might get bored of that quickly. I lasted 6 months on mine before I upgraded to a 650 (restricted)

Good luck, and you're dead right, biking DOES rock
Enjoy

Idleater

spottyelephant wrote: »

Insurance is really what's going to make or break it for me. I rang them (while sitting down) and got told ~€450, or ~€360 with training.

Heilige Scheiße! How much leeway is there in that '~' :eek:

You are obviously senior, outside dublin, quite probably female, and a charmer when speaking to the insurers ... For a small donation, would you call Aon on my behalf?

However, if you do get it for that, you are not doing badly at all - blow the rest on some swanky bike gear, lessons, and stickers for the bike. You are seriously saving yourself €1000 compared to most beginners.

thirtythirty

nereid wrote: »

You are obviously senior

I feel old at 25, but wouldn't exactly call myself "senior"!

nereid wrote: »

outside dublin

dublin

nereid wrote: »

quite probably female

*quick trouser check*. Nope.

nereid wrote: »

and a charmer when speaking to the insurers ... For a small donation, would you call Aon on my behalf?

How small a donation are we talking? The "~" band was very small when I was using it above, but in this instance I think i'd have extend it somewhat..


As for lessons, I found that David Lyons guy online a couple days ago, but couldnt tell if it was officially reckognised training that reduced insurance, or just some guy who taught you generally. Defo would go with him. But my mate has been biking for a while, has his full license, has done all the various training courses, and is a good one for explaining stuff so i'd do a few unofficial sessions with him. I know it's not the same, but i would like to think i'm pretty competent on the road between the 3 or 4 years on a moped, several safety courses in car driving, and being a road cyclist.

And the reasons I only want a 125 is A) - first bike, - insurance, and C) - I'm primarily a motorist. Blew my childhood savings, last year's work, and a bunch of shares on a nice motor which I LOVE driving. This bike would just be for country trips on sunny weekends with the lads, and to test whether biking's for me.

Jaden

I got a restricted CB400, all the gear (from cotters), insurance and tax all-in for circa 2K.

You'd probably be better off getting an A license rather than an A1. Plenty of restricted learner legal 250-400cc bikes out there.

Don't skip in the gear. I got a Helmet, Waterproof jacket and pants, boots and gloves for a shade over €300 in Cotters. Insurance is €500, Bike + restrictor was €1,000, tax and tankbag/lock/cover/my little pony stickers brought me up to just shy of 2K. Well worth it.

cantdecide

After virtually no biking experience, my first bike was a retricted '99 bandit 600. I had it replaced with the restricted GSX after about 4 months IIRC. Lots of smaller BMWs are restrictable. Don't compromise on your choice of bike is my point. My uncle got a '00 BMW 850 for €1,000 recently.

AON made be get my assessment before they'd give me insurance. I drove the instructors bike and got the cert. I think my insurance was €600 TPO in the end.

thirtythirty

Just a quick update -

the good news is ive decided im definately gonna get a bike and give the whole thing a go!

the bad news is i pretty much have my heart set on a Derbi Terra which is about €3000

KamiKazi

What about a Yamaha XT125? Looks very similar and should be a lot cheaper, probably a bit more reliable as well.

thirtythirty

Thats quite nice alright, but i think it's leaning just that bit too far on the pure scrambler side. I really like the tourer-esque look of the terra.
Though if i plan on holding onto it for 3 or so years, perhaps its worth spending that extra bit on it...reckon it'd hold its value well?

KamiKazi

Don't get an expensive first bike, you'll probably drop it a few times making all the usually mistakes new riders make. Get a cheap bike to learn on, then upgrade to a bike you really like when you've the experience to keep it rubber side down.

ifah

1. the resale on that derbi will prob be next to nothing - it's very uncommon, which means
a. lots of people won't know anything about it
b. parts/servicing etc will be hard come by

2. you'll only stick with a 125 for a couple of months before you want to move up. also if you're out on spins with your mates who are on bigger bikes, you'll really struggle to keep up.

if you like that style of bike - why not have a look at Varadero 125 (great resale), vstrom 650 restricted, transalp restricted ....

Jaden

I would suggest:

1. Honda Transalp (restricted) solid touring type bike.
2. CB250/400 (the 400 will need to be restricted). Bulletproof naked bike (no fairings to destroy when you drop it - and you WILL drop it.
3. Honda BROS. 400cc but learner legal. Hard to find one in good nick, owing to the fact couriers loved them.

thirtythirty

Ye i've been looking into it, and i reckon it'l hold it's value pretty well - plus it's a piaggio-based engine so parts would be ok.

I know i'm going 125 anyway, i don't want a bigger bike. Insurance, learning etc i'd just prefer a 125.

So really now it's just down to the varadero or terra. I'm going to have to mull on this for a while!

Luckycharm

spottyelephant wrote: »

I feel old at 25, but wouldn't exactly call myself "senior"!



dublin



*quick trouser check*. Nope.




How small a donation are we talking? The "~" band was very small when I was using it above, but in this instance I think i'd have extend it somewhat..


As for lessons, I found that David Lyons guy online a couple days ago, but couldnt tell if it was officially reckognised training that reduced insurance, or just some guy who taught you generally. Defo would go with him. But my mate has been biking for a while, has his full license, has done all the various training courses, and is a good one for explaining stuff so i'd do a few unofficial sessions with him. I know it's not the same, but i would like to think i'm pretty competent on the road between the 3 or 4 years on a moped, several safety courses in car driving, and being a road cyclist.

And the reasons I only want a 125 is A) - first bike, - insurance, and C) - I'm primarily a motorist. Blew my childhood savings, last year's work, and a bunch of shares on a nice motor which I LOVE driving. This bike would just be for country trips on sunny weekends with the lads, and to test whether biking's for me.

Who is your car insured with if you are with Axa they insure bikes as well and could give you a good deal they do for me - I have 125cc scooter

hobochris

Another thing I would factor in is lessons.

While a moped and a bike are similar in some ways in others they are a world apart.

You may not think you need training, I didn't, many others I'm sure thought they didn't as well, But having done training, I like many others realized it was needed.

I would STRONGLY advise on getting training.

It is an eye opener and you learn some very good bike handling techniques and tricks in the process.

thirtythirty

Well after quite a search, i finally found a second hand, but essentially new (<2k miles) Derbi Terra up north for less than €2000. I was delighted with myself, but unfortunately it turns out that because the bike is 10kg lighter than e.g. a TDR, that puts it in group 4 insurance - adding another €350 to what i'd be paying on a TDR or Varadero! Extremely frustrated about it all.

Anyway, it's now definately between the Varadero or TDR and i'm going out shopping this weekend. Question though - what are the relative life expectancies (in miles) for 4 stroke and 2 stroke bikes?


Then it'l be Gear -> insurance -> driver training -> fun.

jameshayes

This might be a good alternative... http://belfast.gumtree.com/belfast/83/55843883.html

thirtythirty

Thats not bad looking, but slow as hell from what i've read.

I'm actually thinking of going out to have a look at this at the weekend.

jameshayes

You'll get that for 1000 which would be a bargain... make sure to ask what warranty is with it... eg. not eninge etc

jameshayes

Seen this aswell... practically brand new... http://belfast.gumtree.com/belfast/17/55827617.html