Considering taking up biking - cost / safety / license checks..

KamiKazi

jameshayes wrote: »

Seen this aswell... practically brand new... http://belfast.gumtree.com/belfast/17/55827617.html

That's a cool looking 125!

thirtythirty

Well, I'm officially a motorcyclist.

Ended up going for that TDR - got it for €1050 incl a service, new wing mirrors, new back tyre, and tax.

The fairings aren't in as good shape as the photo would suggest - there's a few scrapes, and a crack on the front bit, but the engine seems to be in pretty good condition with little to no rust anywhere, and it started first time from cold.

The guys are pretty sound out there, and they'll take it back off me when i come to upgrade so all in all pretty happy with outcome. Just gotta work out how i'm gonna get it home from out there now since i don't have my provisional yet...:o

jameshayes

Where do ya live buddy? I can drive it back for ya if needs be

KamiKazi

spottyelephant wrote: »

Well, I'm officially a motorcyclist.

Ended up going for that TDR - got it for €1050 incl a service, new wing mirrors, new back tyre, and tax.

The fairings aren't in as good shape as the photo would suggest - there's a few scrapes, and a crack on the front bit, but the engine seems to be in pretty good condition with little to no rust anywhere, and it started first time from cold.

The guys are pretty sound out there, and they'll take it back off me when i come to upgrade so all in all pretty happy with outcome. Just gotta work out how i'm gonna get it home from out there now since i don't have my provisional yet...:o

Nice bike, was considering buying the 850cc version a while back. Don't worry about the fairings, you'll probably drop it yourself a few times anyway.

ifah

thats a 2 stroke isn't it ? don't forget when you going to fill her up.

thirtythirty

Cheers James, that's very good of you! I'm going to see if I can rob my friend's commercial van first which has hooks and strappings inside it, as I'd be a little worried asking someone to drive it uninsured, but if I can't do it that way I might have to come back to you.

And thanks for the vote of competancy KamiKazi!

KamiKazi

spottyelephant wrote: »

Cheers James, that's very good of you! I'm going to see if I can rob my friend's commercial van first which has hooks and strappings inside it, as I'd be a little worried asking someone to drive it uninsured, but if I can't do it that way I might have to come back to you.

And thanks for the vote of competancy KamiKazi!

I'd say James' insurance allows him to drive any bike

gsxr1

Spottyelaphant.

go for it dude. congrates on your bike

work your way up to the big stuff or just keep it small. Its all up to you.

Its addictive and a very social circle , Whether you are a Hoolie or rookie.

Its heart stopping scary and serious fun. Great way to get away from it all .

I have worked my way up through the ranks of uber fast full race track bikes and have settled on a 250 offroader. Cant get enough of it. Its like a bug.
welcome:D

thirtythirty

Well, finally got my license and insurance sorted yesterday, so went for my first drive then...

I was surprised at how naturally the gears came to me. Really thought i'd have issues with revs and knowing what gear im in. Only had one dodgy moment when i was accelerating from 3rd to 4th and i clicked down instead of up (which i actually think is more intuitive than clicking up!) and the bike did a massive lurch forward.

One thing that really caught me by surprise was the steering though. I dunno if all bikes are equal, but I had a bit of an issue on my first right hand turn!

After two mopeds, several honda cub-esque bikes in Asia, and many bicycles, it is drilled into me that to turn right you: steer right (push left hand away) and lean right. Nope, not on my TDR! When i tried to do that I found i couldnt get my centre of gravity over the right side of the bike, it was trying to go front left-ish! Against all better judgement I had to quickly nudge my right hand forward slightly - in order to go around a right hand bend! Extremely strange feeling.

Absolutely love it though. Just wanna get home from work and go for a drive

jameshayes

Everyone always has a problem with either left turns or right turns when they start out on bikes, - the thing to do is try relax as much as possible, DONT look down at the ground, make sure your elbow is bent and use your sholder to do all the work...

Other common problems are;
-Being in too high a gear, causing the bikes balance difficult to manage and
-touching the front brake - when you do this you lose most of your steering clearance, keep away from the front brake!


Good luck with the riding dude - just remember to always kit out, most accidents happen within 10 miles of your house. & never take the risk... you'll know what i mean soon; you'll see a gap & think 'i'd make that'!!! it's best not to find out!

Tigger

i've always lived the tdr great bike
is it restricted ?

they make about 25 brake if you de restrict them

Idleater

spottyelephant wrote: »

Only had one dodgy moment when i was accelerating from 3rd to 4th and i clicked down instead of up (which i actually think is more intuitive than clicking up!) and the bike did a massive lurch forward.

When you have to emergency stop you will be thankful for the gear lever direction.

If it is of any interest to you, the race bikes are (generally) prepared for the way you indicate - down to go 2-3-4-5-6 and up to go 6-5-4-3-2-1 because when the bike is banked over in a corner you can accelerate out and change gear without having your foot mashed into the ground.

I'm willing to bet you are a bit off that kind of riding yet though, so best to get used to the "standard" lever operation.

thirtythirty

Ye I pretty much don't touch the front brake except for when im stopped at lights. Not least because of the very obvious weight transfer to the front, and i'd rather have the back wheel completely lock up than get a bit of slide on the front.

Im not sure if it's restricted or not - but i had a drive of my mates TDR and mine felt a bit pokier. Could be any number of reasons for that though.

If the weather's right (and i don't end up going out on friday night), myself and the two lads (one seasoned, one beginner ala me) are going to head down to Brittas on Sat morning for our first "tour"! Looking forward to actually have some time between traffic lights to really get a feel for the bike. Gonna try and sort training for the week after then, depending on availability.

I had a bit of a "why the hell am i blowing this cash" moment last week, but extremely glad I spent it now since i've actually been out!

Tigger

front brake is for most of your braking you need to get used to it
if you want he st stay more upright then change the springs and or oil in the forks
that shortening up and loading of your front brake is important

please read this

More: Motorcycle Safety Page | Technical Articles Page
This information was originally published in the New Zealand Motorcycle Safety Consultants Megarider eNewsletter

Published by the:

New Zealand Motorcycle Safety Consultants
Level 1, Costa Mora
P O Box 26-036,
Rokewa Way,
Newlands,
Johnsonville, Wellington.
New Zealand
CEO: Allan Kirk
nzmscon@paradise.net.nz

You can subscribe to the Megarider eNewsletter: Send an email to nzmscon@paradise.net.nz with a request to go on the mailing list.

1. Which brake is the most effective?

The front brake is the most effective, giving between 60 & 80% of the bike's stopping power in hard stops, depending upon surface conditions. This is because most of the weight of the bike and rider transfers forward onto the front wheel when the brakes are applied.



A common example of weight transfer is when you trip on a gutter - your feet stop but momentum keeps the top of you going and you fall flat on your face. The weight transfer that takes place under braking on a motorcycle pushes the front wheel onto the ground and makes it grip very well.

2. Is the front wheel likely to skid if you apply the front brake hard?

No. The front wheel is likely to skid uncontrollably and bring you down only if you jam the front brake on hard. If you apply the front brake in a staged (progressive) process, the front wheel may skid but that skid is normally quite controllable.

3. Is the rear wheel likely to skid if you apply the brakes hard?



With most of the weight being on the front wheel, the rear wheel tends to be light under braking and will therefore lock up and skid very easily.

4. How do you control a rear wheel skid?



Control of a rear wheel skid is easy. Just keep your eyes up to the horizon and look where you WANT to go (not necessarily where you are actually going) and the bike will skid in a controllable manner with a minimum of fishtailing.



Basic and advanced braking techniques are best learnt under controlled conditions rather than when a truck pulls out on you! Your local motorcycle school will run a fun braking exercise session for you and some mates if you care to call the school and arrange it.

5. Is braking a natural skill?

Braking, as with any riding skill, is a learned skill, not a natural one. This means you must practice the correct braking skills enough to make them an instinctive reaction before you can be sure that you will do the right things in an emergency. Overseas research has shown that, because of panic overpowering the rider's conscious reactions, nearly a third of all riders do absolutely nothing in an accident situation: they don't even apply the brakes!



If, however, your high level braking skills are so well learnt that they are instinctive, you will do it right, no matter what the situation. However, this requires you to do a lot of high level braking skill practice, the skills will not come with normal everyday riding.

6. Is there a special braking technique that ensures that a rider will get the best out of a motorcycle's brakes?

Yes. The process is called STAGED BRAKING and it involves the rider applying the motorcycle's brakes in a staged process. This gives the rider predictable, progressive braking.

7. In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?

This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front.



Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out of one brake.



Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash.



According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!



So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.



The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake."

8. So how should I apply the rear brake?

Apply it and forget about it. Let the back wheel skid if necessary. Concentrate on using staged braking to harness the superior power of the front brake to save your life.

9. Is Staged Braking difficult to learn?

Given practice, the skill is not difficult to learn. The best way to learn it is to start off with a four stage application of the front brake. Later you can increase the number of stages to make your braking more and more progressive, if you want to.

10.Can you explain four stage braking in practical terms?

To understand four stage braking, think of a rider coming up to a set of lights. Stage One is the force with which he applies the front brake when he sees the lights turn orange some way ahead, in other words, lightly.



At Stage One, the rider is applying the front brake to the point where the brake is just on and slowing the bike down very, very gently to roll to a stop.



Stage Two is the force the rider would use if he was a bit closer to the lights when they turned orange, and he had to make a normal, smooth stop at the lights. So, Stage Two is the firm pull used to bring the bike to a firm, but quiet stop. The rider applies his front brake to Stage One (friction point) before going on to apply to a steady force at Stage Two.



Stage Three. Our rider has dithered about whether to stop for the orange light before deciding he'd better. By this time, he has to stop quite hard to stop. So he applies the front brake to friction point (Stage One), then onto a firm pull (Stage Two) before applying pressure with a strong pull at Stage Three.



Stage Four. The rider very unwisely decides to run the orange only to find, just before he reaches the lights, that they turn red. In this serious situation the rider needs all the braking he's got. So he applies the front brake to friction point, moves onto the firm pull of Stage Two, then to the strong pull of Stage Three, before giving it all he's got at Stage Four.

11. If you "give it all you've got" on the front brake at Stage Four, won't you get front wheel lockup?

Possibly but by using the staged braking process, by the time the tyre gets to the point of locking up at Stage Four, the weight has transferred forward onto the front wheel and any tendency of the front tyre to lose grip is both easily sensed and controlled, unlike a front wheel skid caused by a tyre locking up when the brake is jammed on hard while weight is moving around on the bike under weight transfer.



With correct use of the Four Stage process, controlling a front wheel skid is simply a matter of keeping the wheel steering straight ahead as you relax pressure on the front brake to allow the wheel to revolve again and regain grip.

12. What will happen if the front wheel locks and I don't relax some pressure?

You'll fall off as the wheel will eventually tuck under and the bike (and you) will fall down.

13. How good can you get at emergency braking?

In emergency stops, expert riders are capable of controlling a front wheel skid by releasing pressure on the front brake just enough to get that wheel turning again without actually letting the brake right off. This requires considerable sensitivity on the brakes and the only way you will gain this sort of sensitivity is to practice.



At the NZMSC higher level Megarider sessions, the way the instructors tell if the pupil has reached a suitable standard is whether they can hear the front tyre chattering as the tyre grips at the point of adhesion during emergency stops.

14. Is a bald tyre a liability when braking?

A treadless tyre will quite adequately handle braking stresses on a perfect road surface. The trouble is that perfect road surfaces are more than rare - they're virtually extinct. Tyre tread acts like a broom, sweeping debris, dirt, gravel and water etc off the road surface in order that the tyre can grip the road.



The tread on a sensibly ridden motorcycle can comfortably handle most foreign matter on a road surface - with the possible exception of oil (especially diesel oil), thick mud, and smooth wet paint. But link a bald tyre with foreign matter on the road surface and throw in braking stresses for good measure, and the crash will resound throughout the neighbourhood.

15. How should I brake on slippery and loose surfaces.

Carefully but not timidly. The secret to good braking on poor surfaces is observation. If you know what's under your wheels you can tailor your braking to the surface.



So, keep an eye on the road surface. If you cross a slippery surface under strong braking the front wheel may lock. This is why riders who brake late and hard for orange or red lights often spill off - into the middle of the intersection. The fall occurs because the rider fails to ease the front brake as the front wheel crosses the white line that crosses the lanes at the edge of the intersection. Then the front wheel breaks loose under braking on the slippery surface, the rider panics and freezes, and he and his bike head groundwards...



The basic requirements for braking on a loose surface such as gravel are the same as those applying to braking on a sealed surface. The difference is that you must observe the requirements more strictly on gravel.



You must brake in plenty of time, preferably brake while upright and in a straight line (any braking while leaned over in gravel is extremely hazardous), use both brakes very progressively, carefully interpret the noise from the front and rear tyre while braking to detect and counteract any wheel lock-up, know your road surface, and take particular care when braking on gradients, inclines, and heavy cambers.

Tigger

jameshayes wrote: »

-touching the front brake - when you do this you lose most of your steering clearance, keep away from the front brake!

thirtythirty

Cheers Tigger.

ifah

spottyelephant wrote: »

Ye I pretty much don't touch the front brake except for when im stopped at lights. Not least because of the very obvious weight transfer to the front, and i'd rather have the back wheel completely lock up than get a bit of slide on the front.

Im not sure if it's restricted or not - but i had a drive of my mates TDR and mine felt a bit pokier. Could be any number of reasons for that though.

If the weather's right (and i don't end up going out on friday night), myself and the two lads (one seasoned, one beginner ala me) are going to head down to Brittas on Sat morning for our first "tour"! Looking forward to actually have some time between traffic lights to really get a feel for the bike. Gonna try and sort training for the week after then, depending on availability.

I had a bit of a "why the hell am i blowing this cash" moment last week, but extremely glad I spent it now since i've actually been out!

PLEASE PLEASE Don't go for a spin with you mates - you're definitely not ready for it - especially the roads you'll likely end up on if you head down Wicklow way.

Rather than heading to Brittas with 2 mates on Saturday - why not book 3 hour beginners lessons with a pro who will sort out a lot of those silly things in your head (like keeping away from front brakes, steering etc).

The cash you spend for a lesson will most probably keep you off the tarmac for a while longer.

KamiKazi

ifah wrote: »

PLEASE PLEASE Don't go for a spin with you mates - you're definitely not ready for it - especially the roads you'll likely end up on if you head down Wicklow way.

Rather than heading to Brittas with 2 mates on Saturday - why not book 3 hour beginners lessons with a pro who will sort out a lot of those silly things in your head (like keeping away from front brakes, steering etc).

The cash you spend for a lesson will most probably keep you off the tarmac for a while longer.

He'll be grand once they take it easy, Brittas is straight down the N81 from Tallaght.

ifah

KamiKazi wrote: »

He'll be grand once they take it easy, Brittas is straight down the N81 from Tallaght.

Yeah - i know - it's the everpresent temptation to head towards the mountains from there that i'm talking about.

thirtythirty

Ha, no, well i'm more competant than you might think ifah, but i know damn well to keep away from that kind of stuff you're talking about until post-training!

This run is precisely for what kamikazi was saying - it's a relatively straight run to get a good feel for the bike, with the plan of taking the Brittas side-roads steady. Nice short trip encompassing traffic, cruising, light cornering, and actually getting somewhere that you can stop and reflect about the trip on with my more experienced mate...all within the safety of roads i know v well!

ifah

spottyelephant wrote: »

Ha, no, well i'm more competant than you might think ifah, but i know damn well to keep away from that kind of stuff you're talking about until post-training!

hmmm .... your previous quote about avoiding the front brake altogether kinda contradicts this don't you think ? that's what i've been teaching my six year old on her push-bike - not something I would recommend to a motorcyclist.... there is an engine in the TDR isn't there

but enjoy the spin - weather looks good.

thirtythirty

ifah wrote: »

hmmm .... your previous quote about avoiding the front brake altogether kinda contradicts this don't you think ? that's what i've been teaching my six year old on her push-bike - not something I would recommend to a motorcyclist.... there is an engine in the TDR isn't there

but enjoy the spin - weather looks good.

Well I was dramatising it's use somewhat, but wasn't using it enough for sure.

Weather looks great for tomorrow. Who knows, might even get a quick sunbathe in on the beach!

jameshayes

spottyelephant wrote: »

Well I was dramatising it's use somewhat, but wasn't using it enough for sure.

Weather looks great for tomorrow. Who knows, might even get a quick sunbathe in on the beach!

Just enjoy it dude, learn from your mistakes & the mistakes of others and dont kill yerself!

If ya see a 07 white & black CBR600 around south dublin give us a beep

thirtythirty

If you see a clapped out '98 silver and yellow TDR...DONT beep me!

KamiKazi

spottyelephant wrote: »

If you see a clapped out '98 silver and yellow TDR...DONT beep me!