Driving on a provisional.

Sugarbomb

I need advice.
I am on my 3rd provisional licence. I am getting lessons from a qualified instructor. My Problem is that I need more practice on the road and I can't always find a full licenced driver to come with me. My friends all tell me that I should go alone. But I'm terrified I'll be caught. It is illegal after all. Should I just ignore all my friends?

Mr check raise

posting on a very public forum saying your goin to drive illegally isnt the best way to go about it:)

triple-M

I was reckless enough to drive alone on a provisional for almost 3 years before passing my driving test, got pulled over a few times by the garda and they did mention that i shouldnt be driving alone but left it at that. im not recommending it obviously as i wouldnt encourage breaking the law but it didnt cause me any hassle,thats just my 2c

Wats_in_a_name

What the situation insurance wise if you did have a crash?

MascotDec85

Wats_in_a_name wrote: »

What the situation insurance wise if you did have a crash?

This was discussed last week.

It seems the general consensus is that you would remain insured only for the benefit of the other party if there is one. The chances are that your insurer would come after you to recoup what they pay out.

The importance of getting proper lessons from someone qualified to give them backed up with practice under the guidance of a licence holder for a minimum of 2 years cannot be underestimated

Wats_in_a_name

The importance of getting proper lessons from someone qualified to give them backed up with practice under the guidance of a licence holder for a minimum of 2 years cannot be underestimated

While I agree with you about getting lessons from some qualified. IMO when you are learning to drive it can be more dangerous to go out with you mum/dad/relative/whoever who is nervous. I am learning to drive atm and my Dad is very jumpy shouting watch out for this that and the other which is far more dangerous.

MascotDec85

Wats_in_a_name wrote: »

While I agree with you about getting lessons from some qualified. IMO when you are learning to drive it can be more dangerous to go out with you mum/dad/relative/whoever who is nervous. I am learning to drive atm and my Dad is very jumpy shouting watch out for this that and the other which is far more dangerous.

Selecting the right person is important, absolutely.

Someone like your dad could knock any confidence you have out you or make you dread going out with them or change things you been taught by your ADI.

However, if you can find someone, dare I say, less highly strung practice between lessons is invaluable. It keeps things fresh in your mind.

Depending on what stage you are at it might be an idea to concentrate on practising your manoeuvres with your dad. It'll give you good practice at them whilst limiting the chances of you both being at each others throats. You'll be doing them in a quieter place at a slower speed and this will almost certainly relax him at least!

Good luck

RobertM

Honestly, while I've had my provisional licence, I used to drive on my own, because it's a much more relaxing atmosphere while driving alone, and can concentrate on the driving. I got pulled over a couple of times but the gards didn't tell me anything about having someone with me, as long as the car was insured and the relevant documents up to date.

Nasty_Girl

I am in the same position,
I wouldn't dream of going out alone even though everyone tells me to "chance it"
To be honest the fear of getting caught would make me nervous and more likely to fook up.

It's hard, very hard.
I'd hate to think of what I've spent on lessons already, and as I am being made redundant I won't be able to continue.
I am lucky now that my Aunt and Uncle who live near by can take me out two or three times a week and that helps me so much.
My test is in a few weeks but to be honest if I don't pass I just don't think I can continue learning.
It costs too much money to get the practice I need and it's such a burden on my relatives, even though they would never say this.

LilMsss

I'm in the same position. I've been learning to drive for five weeks (not long - I know!) but am really improving. I've a long way to go before being test ready but I badly need to practice in between lessons.

The problem is finding someone willing to come out with me often enough for me to practice the areas that I need to work on.

I'm gradually getting more confident and am sure I could manage driving on my own in basic traffic situations (live in a city on a major road which doesn't help the situation!). I'm very tempted to go out alone early one morning, or the weekend but have yet to make the leap.

I'm fully aware that this is now illegal but if I continue paying for lessons every time I need to practice, or else wait around until someone is free to come out with me, It will take me years before I'm good enough to pass my test, and in the meantime I worry I might start using my instructor or qualified driver as a crutch and won't be able to manage without them.

MascotDec85

LilMsss wrote: »

I'm in the same position. I've been learning to drive for five weeks (not long - I know!) but am really improving. I've a long way to go before being test ready but I badly need to practice in between lessons.

The problem is finding someone willing to come out with me often enough for me to practice the areas that I need to work on.

I'm gradually getting more confident and am sure I could manage driving on my own in basic traffic situations (live in a city on a major road which doesn't help the situation!). I'm very tempted to go out alone early one morning, or the weekend but have yet to make the leap.

I'm fully aware that this is now illegal but if I continue paying for lessons every time I need to practice, or else wait around until someone is free to come out with me, It will take me years before I'm good enough to pass my test, and in the meantime I worry I might start using my instructor or qualified driver as a crutch and won't be able to manage without them.

So even with that admission you are still contemplating going out unaccompanied If you haven't reached the standard needed to pass your test you shouldn't be out on your own.

How often do you take lessons? Depending on how quickly you pick things up the lessons alone may be enough. That said if you can also practice even once between lessons, it all helps.

Alanstrainor

I think it's worth mentioning that you all have "Learner Permits" and not provisional licenses, as provisionals haven't been issued since 2007, and the last of the ones issued would have expired in November last year.

james998964

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I think it's worth mentioning that you all have "Learner Permits" and not provisional licenses, as provisionals haven't been issued since 2007, and the last of the ones issued would have expired in November last year.

Much the same...

hamlet1

i know its wrong but learner drivers actually learn a lot faster when driving on their own.its because they have to rely on themselves and not on whoever is with them who is automatically watching out for dangers.

MascotDec85

hamlet1 wrote: »

i know its wrong but learner drivers actually learn a lot faster when driving on their own.its because they have to rely on themselves and not on whoever is with them who is automatically watching out for dangers.

So they'll learn more than say taking proper, structured lessons from someone qualified to provide them?

colsku

Mr check raise wrote: »

posting on a very public forum saying your goin to drive illegally isnt the best way to go about it:)

It may be very public forum but the person's identity is not...

james998964

MascotDec85 wrote: »

So they'll learn more than say taking proper, structured lessons from someone qualified to provide them?

They will develop better car control and won't be worrying about making mistakes so much in front of others.

MascotDec85

james998964 wrote: »

They will develop better car control and won't be worrying about making mistakes so much in front of others.

I'd be interested to know how they can develop this control if nobody is showing them or correcting their mistakes.

In short, I totally disagree

james998964

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how they can develop this control if nobody is showing them or correcting their mistakes.

In short, I totally disagree

They learn the basics and perfect it themselves. Drive on your own and do occasional lessons. Soon you will become quite good and be ready for test. It's not really that hard.

MascotDec85

james998964 wrote: »

They learn the basics and perfect it themselves. Drive on your own and do occasional lessons. Soon you will become quite good and be ready for test. It's not really that hard.

Ok. It's clear you know best

ardmacha

i know its wrong but learner drivers actually learn a lot faster when driving on their own.its because they have to rely on themselves and not on whoever is with them who is automatically watching out for dangers

Perhaps doctors could be encouraged to do likewise and reduce the high cost of medical school.

james998964

ardmacha wrote: »

Perhaps doctors could be encouraged to do likewise and reduce the high cost of medical school.

Performing surgery on a brain by guesswork is different to learning basics of car control and then perfecting gear changes yourself.

james998964

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Ok. It's clear you know best

Worked for me and my friends anyways

MascotDec85

james998964 wrote: »

Worked for me and my friends anyways

That's all the evidence we need

ha-ya-said-what

james998964 wrote: »

Worked for me and my friends anyways

And did all of ye past yer driving test first time or are ye still clinging onto to 2nd & 3rd provisionals .... just outta curiousity

james998964

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

And did all of ye past yer driving test first time or are ye still clinging onto to 2nd & 3rd provisionals .... just outta curiousity

We all passed first time. 5 of us doing this. Wouldn't mention it otherwise.

Richie15

Wats_in_a_name wrote: »

I am learning to drive atm and my Dad is very jumpy shouting watch out for this that and the other which is far more dangerous.

My mam still does that and I've had my full licence about a year and half! :rolleyes:
What I hate is when she leans forward to check the road I'm turning onto is clear, and gets in the way of my mirror and sometimes even the road! If that had happened while I was learning, I probably would've got used to that rather than learning to check the road myself.
Went out with my dad a few times too, and he was contradicting stuff my instructor had said, and other stuff I'd clarified with numerous sources including right here! "You'll definitely have to do parallel parking," "You'll automatically fail if you cut out or tip the kerb," "You have to use your indicators even in reverse or when there's nothing around."
In my opinion, the best teacher I had was my sister, who was only learning herself! But of course there was also a qualified driver there too, I swear.

Just a few things to bare in mind if you do choose to drive without a qualified driver (and I'm not saying you should).

• Don't break any other laws. Make sure your car is roadworthy, you have all your documents (tax, insurance, NCT, learner permit) and you're not speeding, breaking red lights etc.
• Be polite to the Gardaí when you're stopped (which you will be). "My mam's normally with me, just not today" - they know it's not true, obviously, but if you're polite about it they might turn a blind eye.
• DON'T take down your L-Plates! This wont help divert attention from you, it just makes you look like you think the Gardaí are thick, which they're not. They wont do you any favours if you insult them, just like anyone else. Also there's another fine for not having L-Plates, €1,000, whether you've a qualified driver with you or not. So if you've no plates and no-one accompanying you, that's €2,000. I don't know about you, but that's more than any of my cars were worth.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I think it's worth mentioning that you all have "Learner Permits" and not provisional licenses, as provisionals haven't been issued since 2007, and the last of the ones issued would have expired in November last year.

james998964 wrote: »

Much the same...

Learner Permits are exactly the same as Provisional Licences, yes, just a different name. The reason for the name change was (besides to make the RSA look useful, that's a whole other discussion) to reinforce the fact that it's only granting you permission to learn to drive. "Provisional Licence" implies you're qualified to drive, subject to certain provisions, which is not the case. That sounds more like a restricted licence. My (full) Driving Licence, for example, qualifies me to drive a car, subject to the provision that I wear corrective lenses.

james998964 wrote: »

We all passed first time. 5 of us doing this. Wouldn't mention it otherwise.

With SGS? That's how most learners slipped through. I only know one person who failed with them, and that's because she nearly creamed some oul' fella reversing into a road.

af_thefragile

I've been taking lessons since early Jan and the only driving I was getting was at these lessons. Although I have improved greatly over the months, I think I've kind of hit a plateau now. Since the past couple of weeks I don't really see myself improving much.

Its like I've learnt all the theory, I've been taught how to drive the car in the right way and now all I'm lacking is the confidence and experience you'ld get from regular practice on the streets.

Its because everytime that I've driven, it has been in the safety on my instructor, I could never really develop the confidence to drive on my own with the car fully under my control on the streets.

The other day I had to bring a car I just bought from the city to where I live and it was a complete nightmare. I never ever felt I would dread driving so much. It was purely because I didn't have my instructor's "safety net" under me, I was terrified all the way through and was greatly relieved when I finally arrived home in one piece!
I can drive pretty much perfect in my instructors car. Absolutely no problem. But on my own it was a completely different story and it was then that I realised I still have a way to go before I can be fully competent to drive on the roads by myself.



My point is that the instructor can only teach you how to drive in the proper way which is only a part (a big part, but just one part) of driving. A lot of it comes down to confidence on the road which comes from experience. Which is why I think it is absolutely necessary to practice between lessons. Even if you can't find anyone to sit besides you, just drive around your neighborhood. Its a completely different thing driving own your own than it is with someone sitting besides you to guide you through every step and correct any errors you make.

I'm not sure if I'll pass my driving test tomorrow. My instructor told me today I drive fine but its too early for me to do the test. I still lack the confidence and experience to drive around and which is why I'ld most likely fail the test. And this doesn't really bother me. After yesterday's rude awakening (of the bringing the car home experience) I did realise I need to practice a lot more to gain the experience and confidence to drive safely on the roads and I can't get that by driving once a week sitting besides my instructor.

MascotDec85

af_thefragile wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'll pass my driving test tomorrow. My instructor told me today I drive fine but its too early for me to do the test. I still lack the confidence and experience to drive around and which is why I'ld most likely fail the test. And this doesn't really bother me. After yesterday's rude awakening (of the bringing the car home experience) I did realise I need to practice a lot more to gain the experience and confidence to drive safely on the roads and I can't get that by driving once a week sitting besides my instructor.

Good luck with tomorrow, think positively and you can still pass it

As an aside and in my opinion, you instructor should have told you before now that your test had come too early for you. Even after the cancellation deadline has passed you can still cancel your test without penalty if the "circumstances" are enough. A pupil shouldn't be put in for their test if they are not up to the standard.

Failing the test can crush a pupil's confidence, not to mention costing more money in test fees.

Alanstrainor

Learner Permits brought with them additional requirements. Such as having to wait for 6 months before being able to sit the driving test. And also if you held a second provisional license you were legally allowed to drive unaccompanied. This was no more with the Learner Permits. etc There was a reason for making the distinction.

MascotDec85

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Learner Permits brought with them additional requirements. Such as having to wait for 6 months before being able to sit the driving test. And also if you held a second provisional license you were legally allowed to drive unaccompanied. This was no more with the Learner Permits. etc There was a reason for making the distinction.

I'm not sure I agree with the 6 month rule as such. I understand the theory behind it but from personal experience if you are good enough to pass inside 6 months you shouldn't be time barred from doing so.

james998964

No it wasn't with sgs! Was with RSA in lougrea.

@af_thefragile Best of luck! And if the worst happens I suggest doing future lessons in your own car. It's ok learning in his car but you really want to be using a car you are using for test.

MascotDec85

af_thefragile wrote: »

I've been taking lessons since early Jan and the only driving I was getting was at these lessons. Although I have improved greatly over the months, I think I've kind of hit a plateau now. Since the past couple of weeks I don't really see myself improving much.

That is not unusual with learner's. You are not alone.

It might be that your need more practice or that your instructor needs to try a different approach with you.

Whichever it is try not to get too dis-heartened about it.

MascotDec85

james998964 wrote: »

No it wasn't with sgs! Was with RSA in lougrea.

@af_thefragile Best of luck! And if the worst happens I suggest doing future lessons in your own car. It's ok learning in his car but you really want to be using a car you are using for test.

You can do your test in the instructor's car so what's the difference? It's down to personal preference at the end of the day.

james998964

MascotDec85 wrote: »

You can do your test in the instructor's car so what's the difference? It's down to personal preference at the end of the day.

Yeah I know! I'll clarify this. What I meant was you should do lessons on car you will be using for test.

MascotDec85

james998964 wrote: »

Yeah I know! I'll clarify this. What I meant was you should do lessons on car you will be using for test.

Sound

Also though, any (accompanied) practice that can be done in between lessons is invaluable regardless of car type

af_thefragile

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Good luck with tomorrow, think positively and you can still pass it

As an aside and in my opinion, you instructor should have told you before now that your test had come too early for you. Even after the cancellation deadline has passed you can still cancel your test without penalty if the "circumstances" are enough. A pupil shouldn't be put in for their test if they are not up to the standard.

Failing the test can crush a pupil's confidence, not to mention costing more money in test fees.

Nah, I think I'll do the test anyway.
Even if I fail, I'll know what its like to do a test and find out what are the places I need to improve on so I can be better prepared for it next time.

Thanks for the encouragement anyway. I'm not disheartened or anything. I'll go in there tomorrow and do the best I can and see where it takes me.
I do feel I've still got loads to learn though. But it's always nice to have the freedom of a full license!

MascotDec85

af_thefragile wrote: »

Nah, I think I'll do the test anyway.
Even if I fail, I'll know what its like to do a test and find out what are the places I need to improve on so I can be better prepared for it next time.

Thanks for the encouragement anyway. I'm not disheartened or anything. I'll go in there tomorrow and do the best I can and see where it takes me.
I do feel I've still got loads to learn though. But it's always nice to have the freedom of a full license!

Even driver's with years of experience learn things regularly....if they pay attention

Just relax tomorrow and drive the car to the best of your ability. You can't ask any more of yourself than that

red barron

yeah i have always gone out by myself. its a risk you have to take come what may. but if you are going to do it take down your L-plates or else you will be asking for trouble

i even got stopped and breatalised once but because i didn't have my L-plates up was never asked for licence. the garda just assumed i had one.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Richie15

red barron wrote: »

yeah i have always gone out by myself. its a risk you have to take come what may. but if you are going to do it take down your L-plates or else you will be asking for trouble

i even got stopped and breatalised once but because i didn't have my L-plates up was never asked for licence. the garda just assumed i had one.

I'll say it again, DON'T take down your L-Plates! This wont help divert attention from you, it just makes you look like you think the Gardaí are thick, which they're not. They wont do you any favours if you insult them, just like anyone else. Also there's another fine for not having L-Plates, €1,000, whether you've a qualified driver with you or not. So if you've no plates and no-one accompanying you, that's €2,000. I don't know about you, but that's more than any of my cars were worth.

I've been stopped loads of times, before and since getting my full licence. Before the test I was breathalysed twice, stopped for speeding once (that was a close one, lucky I had a genuine reason that time) and pulled over by a Garda car behind me once, not to mention countless checkpoints. Don't think I was ever stopped while I was accompanied. I've only once been given out to for my L-plates: That was because I never bothered taking them down after my test. In fact one time a Garda said "you're not on a provisional, are you?" and when I said I was he said "Sorry I didn't hear you, I'll just assume you said no." Trust me, you're much better off being polite and honest (well obviously don't tell them you do it all the time, but otherwise honest).

Alanstrainor

red barron wrote: »

yeah i have always gone out by myself. its a risk you have to take come what may. but if you are going to do it take down your L-plates or else you will be asking for trouble

i even got stopped and breatalised once but because i didn't have my L-plates up was never asked for licence. the garda just assumed i had one.

You're relatively new to this forum. So let this be a warning. Please note this point in the charter.

* Do not advocate illegal activities or encourage others to act illegally.

Thanks.

Ostrom

Anyone catch that documentary RTE are showing about traffic cops last Friday? They had pulled in a young girl (20's I think) for texting in traffic (whilst moving). They discovered she was driving unaccompanied on a learners permit without displaying L plates (which were stashed in her handbag).

No points, no fine, no warning - sent her on her way without insisting she put up her L plates (they recommended she do do at her destination).

Richie15

efla wrote: »

Anyone catch that documentary RTE are showing about traffic cops last Friday? They had pulled in a young girl (20's I think) for texting in traffic (whilst moving). They discovered she was driving unaccompanied on a learners permit without displaying L plates (which were stashed in her handbag).

No points, no fine, no warning - sent her on her way without insisting she put up her L plates (they recommended she do do at her destination).

Remember that time I said the Gardaí aren't thicks? :rolleyes:

af_thefragile

Saw loads of people today driving with L plates on but no one sitting besides them...

Not that I advise you to do it. And if you do it, I'll advise you to just do it around your neighborhood. So even if a gard stop you, you can sorta tell him you're practicing for the test and only live a couple of blocks away...

MascotDec85

af_thefragile wrote: »

Saw loads of people today driving with L plates on but no one sitting besides them...

Not that I advise you to do it. And if you do it, I'll advise you to just do it around your neighborhood. So even if a gard stop you, you can sorta tell him you're practicing for the test and only live a couple of blocks away...

Just because there are L plates on a car doesn't mean the driver is a learner.

The Garda will decide whether or not he'll book you depending on:
a) his mood
b) your attitude
c) the condition of your car
d) if he's due a break
e) if it's not raining
f) if his wife is talking to him

in other words, the fact that you are just "sorta practising" won't cut any ice if he decides to book you.

There are enough people doing this in the country without people encouraging it imo

af_thefragile

^Then, sorry if I was encouraging it.
Best is to make sure you pass your driving test soon so that you can get your full license and drive around without any trouble!!

Have met the gaurds on a few occasions on my own. Never got pulled over. I think that this law isn't as enforced as much as most people might think. IF you do get into an accident however, then you have a problem.

Ostrom

Tristan CoolS Litter wrote: »

Have met the gaurds on a few occasions on my own. Never got pulled over. I think that this law isn't as enforced as much as most people might think. IF you do get into an accident however, then you have a problem.

Does insurance cover unaccompanied accidents?

efla

efla wrote: »

Does insurance cover unaccompanied accidents?

I'm not sure. My guess is probably no.

MascotDec85

efla wrote: »

Does insurance cover unaccompanied accidents?

The general consensus seems to be that technically you are insured, mainly to cover other parties but your insurer will go after you to recover the costs of any claim