How dose a rifle stock improve accuracy

greenpeter

Looking here i see some of ye boys have beautiful rifles with lots of modification especially to stocks,

Apart from looking great dose it or how dose it improve accuracy?

jwshooter

it should give you a strong rigid platform to sit the action into .

ejg

I don't think a high end stock really makes a rifle more accurate.....
it makes the rifle reliable.
Take a rifle on a bench with almost any stock. If the is no change between stock/rifle and pressures between them, then the groups should be as good as the rifle is.
Trouble starts when one for example changes position. Pressure on an unfloated barrel changes or alone on the action and the harmonics are upset. Rifle will shoot to different point of inpact.

Especially for a hunting rifle we want a rifle to shoot exactly to the same point..... today, tomorrow and in a few weeks time. We want the same POI in cold, hot or wet weather. We want the same POI off a bipod, sandbag, off a tree branch or sticks.

I think two things are needed to achieve this, mechanics and materials.
For a hunting rifle I believe free floating is the way to go. The action must also be fitted as good as possible into the stock. One way is to bed the rifle with a epoxy resin that is loaded with a stiff filler. One does not want dampening or flex between action and stock fitting.

Materials, in the action area one doesn't want a material that flows away under pressure like most injection moulded plastics. This would lead to action screws becoming looser over time.
I believe that a stock must be made of a very stiff material (for accuracy sake, not the shoulder) A stiff strong stock will not flex enough under normal conditions that the forend could touch the barrel.
At the moment the winner on the materials front I think is epoxy carbon fiber. It is light, stiff and strong, just like other sports gear one can add weight if needed exactly where it would be of benefit. As for a hunting rifle, rather save weight in the stock and invest in a slightly heavier barrel.
Thermal expansion of a glass/carbon composite can be fairly close to steel. Much closer than aluminium /steel.
edi

SD308

Assuming we are looking for the maximum achievable accuracy which could be obtained from a stable shooting position such as prone or from a solid bench, off a front rest or solid bi-pod, the qualities of a good stock would be as follows;

1 – Solid bedding area and material for the action.
This can be achieved with either an epoxy bedding process or an aluminium bedding block, both of which will prevent the action from moving in the stock under recoil and settling in a different location from shot to shot and will also keep the forces acting on the action uniform, regardless of any environmental changes taking place in the stock material itself.

2 – Stiff material, especially in the fore end.
This helps maintain a fully free floated barrel regardless of the pressure placed on the stock while sitting in the rest or bi-pod, supporting a heavy barrel, especially during recoil.

3 – Flat fore end and butt stock bottom.
This will allow for smooth, repeatable recoil into the shoulder which helps to keep the muzzle from rising during recoil.

4 – Not too light, 5lbs – 7lbs of weight.
This will help to absorb recoil and keep the muzzle down as well as reduce any flinch on your part. The thing to remember here is that if you can afford to add extra weight, the barrel is the place to do it first once the stock is at a minimum of say 4lbs – 5lbs.

If you are building a hunting rifle you can ignore the flat fore end and but stock and reduce the weight to something you are happy carrying.

Most standard stocks found on factory rifles are usually made of either solid wood, laminate wood or synthetic material, usually moulded polymer and come with no bedding. You can have a solid or laminate wood stock bedded and with proper clearance in the barrel channel you should be able to maintain a free floating barrel. A cheap synthetic, moulded polymer stock on the other hand is usually not stiff enough to provide a good base for bedding material or to maintain a free floated barrel.

Other considerations are ergonomics, durability and of course style.

All these points are why you might consider changing your factory stock to an after market replacement such as a high quality synthetic, well bedded laminate or fully aluminium stock, or at the very least have your solid wooden stock bedded.

Stephen.

love to shoot

greenpeter wrote: »

Looking here i see some of ye boys have beautiful rifles with lots of modification especially to stocks,

Apart from looking great dose it or how dose it improve accuracy?

always wondered about this myself good question but dose this apply to all rifles or only centerfire. because i was at the range a few weeks back and one of the lads had a .22 the same as mine diferent stock heaver barrel ordered the stock bedded the stock but still could not get groups as tight as mine. he had all the info (over my head) but still could not adjust his own scope without advice. and he still went home without it sited in. so my question is how much dose it matter because i dont know but, i would like to and how is it done.

SD308

love to shoot wrote: »

my question is how much dose it matter

A rifle system is just like a chain, it is dependant on its weakest link.
The stock is just one part of the rifle system which also includes the barrel, the action, the trigger, the scope, the mounts, the rounds and the man. If one of these factors is sufficiently out of whack it will override all the other factors.

The best stock and bedding area in the world won’t make up for a dodgy barrel, faulty scope or loose mounts. Just like the best rifle in the world won’t make up for a sloppy shooter.

This is just as true for a .22lr at 50yards as it is for a .308 at 1000 yards. The only difference is with the reduced recoil and range of a .22lr the apparent errors can be smaller, although their causes should be easier to spot.

Accuracy is about reducing all the variables until the only thing left to blame is you.

Stephen.

love to shoot

SD308 wrote: »

A rifle system is just like a chain, it is dependant on its weakest link.
The stock is just one part of the rifle system which also includes the barrel, the action, the trigger, the scope, the mounts, the rounds and the man. If one of these factors is sufficiently out of whack it will override all the other factors.

The best stock and bedding area in the world won’t make up for a dodgy barrel, faulty scope or loose mounts. Just like the best rifle in the world won’t make up for a sloppy shooter.

This is just as true for a .22lr at 50yards as it is for a .308 at 1000 yards. The only difference is with the reduced recoil and range of a .22lr the apparent errors can be smaller, although their causes should be easier to spot.

Accuracy is about reducing all the variables until the only thing left to blame is you.

Stephen.

next question how can you tell witch is witch so you dont have to spend a fortune

SD308

love to shoot wrote: »

how can you tell witch is witch so you dont have to spend a fortune

OK, using your .22lr as an example, the first thing would be to try every type of ammunition you can get your hands on. When I say try, I’m mean shoot at least three well prepared five shot groups with each type. Choose the top two or three types that gave you the smallest and most consistent groups. Now get a known good shooter, some one who shoots .22lr competition and maybe whose groups you have been envying, and ask him to try your chosen amo brands in your rifle.
If your rifle is shooting tight for you but tighter for him then you know where to look for improvement.
If it won’t shoot tight for either of you then he should be able to offer you some advice on what the problem could be, based on his experience when shooting your rifle.
The more experienced the shooter you get to shoot your rifle, the more enlightening the feedback will be.

Outside of that you’ll just have to do what the rest of us do, which is keep spending money on supposed improvements until the finger finally points squarely in your own face!

Stephen.

IRLConor

SD308 wrote: »

The more experienced the shooter you get to shoot your rifle, the more enlightening the feedback will be.

+1

Also, don't forget about yourself. If you can find a more experienced shooter to help then it's also worth getting them to watch you shoot your gun. It's very hard to watch yourself shooting so you could be doing something obviously wrong and not even realise! If you're stuck, a mirror or a cheap webcam could do the job but I don't think I've ever been on a range where there hasn't been someone willing and able to help.

On the original topic, I see stocks as doing two main things which improve accuracy:

• Providing a consistent and stable platform for the barrel & action.
• Providing a comfortable fit for the shooter to perform at his/her best.

It's all too easy to buy a more expensive stock to satisfy the first half of that, and end up compromising on the second half. Every shooter will have different needs, so just because someone else is doing well with a particular stock doesn't necessarily mean you will.

rrpc

Just would like to add (as no-one seems to have) that the high end rifle stocks for target rifles are designed so that they can be adjusted to fit the shooter and the firing position.

That means that no matter who buys the stock, they can adjust it so that it fits them no matter their size or shape. It's the equivalent of having a custom built stock without paying through the nose for it.

The shooting position is also catered for so that the rifle can be adjusted for standing, kneeling or prone shooting. I'm not including benchrest here as it doesn't require that the rifle fit the shooter but it does have to fit the bench .

jamesomara

The fit of the long gun is VERY important and is often overlooked. Just like a pair of running shoes that are too big or too small, performance/accuracy will be sacrificed.

For example, shoulder a long shotgun and look at the front sight. Are you able to see the top of the barrel - looking like a ramp towards the sight? If so, you need shims. A millimeter here and there magnifies exponentially downrange.

The length of the stock drastically matters when it comes to holding the weapon steady and level. Some butt-stocks are just too long for people and they have to reach too far out which creates unstable equilibrium.

Definitely do not overlook the fit of your stock. Long guns don't come in obvious sizes such as shoes, but that doesn't mean they all fit.

demonloop

IRLConor wrote: »

On the original topic, I see stocks as doing two main things which improve accuracy:

• Providing a consistent and stable platform for the barrel & action.
• Providing a comfortable fit for the shooter to perform at his/her best.

Precisely.

Glensman

As regards free floating barrels; My 10/22T has a pressure spot at the front of the fore-end. Do you float that too or leave it touching??

shanmoll308

Hey Glensman
Do not remove that fore end preassure point on your 10/22T as the ruger 10/22 has only one action screw and it will result in your action rocking back and forth in your stock..:eek:

Shanmoll308.

Feidhlim Dignan

my cz lux has the barrel screwd onto the stock, whats the story here?

jwshooter

my tikka t3 .243 is not free floting. it will shot inchish groups at 300 yds any day of the week.

with federal B tips its a tack driver .

maglite

The other thing you need to look at is the how your cheek rests on the gun relivant to the scope. Most factory stocks are designed for low scopes or Irons. You need to be able to get a reliable repeatable cheek weld every time you put face to gun.

Also how your finger reaches to the trigger, you don't want to be stretching too far. Same for your hand to hand grip, hence the length adjustment.

I have a cheap cheek pad on my rifle to raise the comb to meet the way my scope lines up. Found it improved my group massively.

SD308

A fully free floated barrel is the “Ideal” because it allows the barrel to vibrate naturally during recoil. This does not mean that a barrel which is in contact with the stock cannot be accurate, as experience will prove that many are.

The bottom line is that if your rifle is already producing the level of accuracy you require then there is no need to go messing around with it because of any “perceived” benefit, as you might just make things worse.
On the other hand if you are building or having someone build for you, a custom rifle for high end accuracy, then there are some time proven factors which should be looked at such as a well built, well bedded stock, a free floated custom barrel, a trued action, reliable trigger, quality mounts and a reliable scope.

Also;
If a pressure point was intended in the design of your rifle you should not attempt to remove it without consulting a credible gunsmith. The action of a rifle and how it attaches to the stock should be sturdy enough to be capable of supporting the full weight of the barrel before any attempt to free float the barrel is considered.
In fact I would recommend that you let a qualified gunsmith make any and all alterations you require to your rifle.

Stephen.