HSE: Hospital porters take 26 sick days a year

zootroid

HSE threat to privatise porter service after rise in sick days

By Barry Duggan
Friday March 05 2010
THE Health Service Executive (HSE) has threatened to privatise the porter service at one of the country's busiest hospitals after sick-day levels rocketed to almost four times the national average.

Management at the Mid-Western Regional Hospital in Limerick last night said they had to deal with several issues of misconduct among the 54 porters working there.

The porters' union, SIPTU, said it would be releasing a statement today on the issues and would not make any further comment.

Senior HSE management said the absenteeism among the 54 porters working at the hospital in Dooradoyle was now "a huge issue". A total of 1,438 working days were lost by porters at the hospital last year.

Manager of the HSE Mid-West Area, John O'Brien, said absenteeism levels among the porters was running at 15pc.

"The industry norm for sick leave is up to 4pc, so this is running at a very high level here. This is characterised by single day absences, ringing up at short notice and so on," Mr O'Brien said.

"In terms of sick leave, we are considering not making payment for single days from now. We are considering about the possible privatising or part privatising of that service from now on considering the way they are carrying on and behaving.

"We are also considering disciplinary action if there are further lightning strikes. There are some good people working as porters here, but these issues are going on for too long," he added.

Hospital porters carried out lightening strikes on four occasions over the past two months. The pay scale for general porters runs from €27,504 to €30,525; the scale for theatre porters is €28,420 to €32,905.

SIPTU, which represent the Limerick hospital porters, contacted HSE management yesterday to schedule a meeting to air their grievances.

One of the porters' main complaints is the "filthy and dilapidated state" of their rest room which they say poses a threat to patient safety.

"There is a house for cats at the back of the hospital and they have better conditions than we have. There is no showers, no disinfectant to wash our hands, no towels," one porter said.

Refurbishing

However, HSE management said the problem was of the porters' own making. "We set out refurbishing it some 12 months ago only to meet with a lack of co-operation from the porters who refused to move out. After much persuasion, they eventually agreed to move out of half of this space," a HSE spokesman said.

"For some reason they are now dragging their feet about moving out of the other half of this area. Once they do so, it will be refurbished," the HSE said.

"The attitude of non co-operation of the portering staff to the refurbishment of their own working conditions is symptomatic of an overall approach which is characterised by high levels of absenteeism, four unofficial lightning strikes."

The HSE also alleged the "total inflexibility of some porters" since December.

"The bottom line is that the Mid-Western Regional Hospital was built by the taxpayer to care for patients. It was not established for the primary benefit of a small group who refuse to abide by the most basic principles of established industrial relations," senior management at the hospital said.

- Barry Duggan

Irish Independent

Hospital porters are taking on average 26 sick days a year (1,438/54). Good old Ireland, just pull a sickie whenever you feel like it. Things like this don't surprise me anymore, but I would just like to see something done about it. We are borrowing far too much money, and stories like this just provide more examples of the litany of waste.

Head The Wall

zootroid wrote: »

Hospital porters are taking on average 26 sick days a year (1,438/54). Good old Ireland, just pull a sickie whenever you feel like it. Things like this don't surprise me anymore, but I would just like to see something done about it. We are borrowing far too much money, and stories like this just provide more examples of the litany of waste.

What does surprise me is the management actually seem to want to do something about it. Although I'm sure we'll have someone on telling us this is just another anecdote and the PS doesn't normally act up like this. Yeah right

gandalf

The porters' union, SIPTU, said it would be releasing a statement today on the issues and would not make any further comment.

No sign of that statement on the Siptu website (that article was from last Friday!). Maybe they are finding a hard time to bull**** away this kind of behaviour.

How do other PS's feel about this type of behaviour and can they see why people are fed up of all the union rhetoric when stories like this one surface?

rightwingdub

Fire any porter who takes at least 12 days out sick each year, the whole catering and porting deoartment in the HSE should be privatised same with the cleaners, they should be outsourced to non unionised private companies. 26 days out sick each year:mad: that is disgraceful

Realtine

rightwingdub wrote: »

Fire any porter who takes at least 12 days out sick each year, the whole catering and porting deoartment in the HSE should be privatised same with the cleaners, they should be outsourced to non unionised private companies. 26 days out sick each year:mad: that is disgraceful

Tar every decent PS worker with the same brush?

__________

Realtine wrote: »

Tar every decent PS worker with the same brush?

It is quite widely accepted that the vast majority of public sector workers are considerably lazy compared to their private sector counterparts. It is institutionalized into them from day 1.

Company shareholders simply wouldn't accept this in the private sector.

goat2

zootroid wrote: »

Hospital porters are taking on average 26 sick days a year (1,438/54). Good old Ireland, just pull a sickie whenever you feel like it. Things like this don't surprise me anymore, but I would just like to see something done about it. We are borrowing far too much money, and stories like this just provide more examples of the litany of waste.

when fellows are in a job a long time, they think they own the place, and do as they like,
did they have health checks on applying for the jobs, or did they develope these illnesses on the job, must be very hard job, stressed out.

pah

__________ wrote: »

It is quite widely accepted that the vast majority of public sector workers are considerably lazy compared to their private sector counterparts.

Widely accepted by ..... you is it?

C'mon sweeping statements like this are no good for the discussion ________

__________

pah wrote: »

Widely accepted by ..... you is it?

C'mon sweeping statements like this are no good for the discussion ________

It is widely accepted by pretty much everyone.

However most people are afraid to speak their mind for fear of repercussions.

I am not.

pah

__________ wrote: »

It is widely accepted by pretty much everyone.

However most people are afraid to speak their mind for fear of repercussions.

I am not.

I think you're missing the point, you're making a sweeping and generalising statement about a huge group of people without any kind of facts to back it up.

Of what repurcussions do you speak of? I don't see how speaking your mind (anonymously) on a forum could have many repurcussions for you.

Realtine

__________ wrote: »

It is quite widely accepted that the vast majority of public sector workers are considerably lazy compared to their private sector counterparts. It is institutionalized into them from day 1.

Company shareholders simply wouldn't accept this in the private sector.

I cannot take part in these debates because quite frankly they just degenerate into mud slinging and slagging off but I suppose that's to be expected on a busy open forum like boards but I would like to say that firstly - I work in the private sector and I certainly don't view the majority of PS workers as lazy compared to the all high and mighty private sector. we certainly have in our workplace some of the biggest laziest people I have ever met who haven't done a decent days work in yonks and because they have the ability to brown nose when it suits them they get away with murder.

But I would like to say this, I have just spend some time in a busy A/E dept in Dublin, the nurses & doctors who are also PUBLIC SERVANTS by the way, were certainly not what I call lazy in any way shape or form, they certainly had a lot to put up with while I was there and they all seemed to be doing what was expected of them, No one was on any sort of "go slow" that our newspapers seem to be full of. I am aware that is only a small example of my experience of PS workers but I recently taxed my car at the tax office counter and they were fine too, AND I got through on the phone to the income tax office also.
These HSE press managers seem to put (leak) out bad reports when it suits them - I take whatever they say these days with a pinch of salt as they only ever want to highlight the bad and not the good which obviously exits but if it was all good news people on here would have nothing to bitch about.
So as I said before why tar all workers with the same brush?
unless you know them all personally of course and can vouch for their "considerable" lazyness.

pah

Realtine wrote: »

I cannot take part in these debates because quite frankly they just degenerate into mud slinging and slagging off but I suppose that's to be expected on a busy open forum like boards but I would like to say that firstly - I work in the private sector and I certainly don't view the majority of PS workers as lazy compared to the all high and mighty private sector. we certainly have in our workplace some of the biggest laziest people I have ever met who haven't done a decent days work in yonks and because they have the ability to brown nose when it suits them they get away with murder.

But I would like to say this, I have just spend some time in a busy A/E dept in Dublin, the nurses & doctors who are also PUBLIC SERVANTS by the way, were certainly not what I call lazy in any way shape or form, they certainly had a lot to put up with while I was there and they all seemed to be doing what was expected of them, No one was on any sort of "go slow" that our newspapers seem to be full of. I am aware that is only a small example of my experience of PS workers but I recently taxed my car at the tax office counter and they were fine too, AND I got through on the phone to the income tax office also.
These HSE press managers seem to put (leak) out bad reports when it suits them - I take whatever they say these days with a pinch of salt as they only ever want to highlight the bad and not the good which obviously exits but if it was all good news people on here would have nothing to bitch about.
So as I said before why tar all workers with the same brush?
unless you know them all personally of course and can vouch for their "considerable" lazyness.

Nicely put. For someone who cannot take part in the debate

Head The Wall

You'll find the government offices that collect money are run efficiently and well staffed and willing to do anything to collect your money off you. Majority of other services seem to suck. We sent in a cheque to a local council two weeks ago for a permit, cheque was lodged that day, we had to go looking for our permit few days later and were told "oh they won't be issueing them because of the go slow" Just another anecdote

WalterMitty

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revealed-cosy-holiday-deal-for-fas-top-brass-2091351.html

I was ridiculed on another thread here for pointing out workers in Enterprise Ireland were sent on several week "team working " trips to America after serving more than a decade in the organisation. Above is another example and theres loads more to come out in the public sector in terms of junkets and waste.

zootroid

It does seem like stories about wasting money are coming out more frequently now. But most of the solutions are simple enough.

In the case of the HSE - no sick days. If you are out for 3 days or longer you must provide a doctors note. If you are frequently absent for single days, it is noted, and your pay is docked.

Annual leave should be benchmarked against the private sector, where it's usually 20-25 days. This should apply to everyone, including teachers, where it should be part of their jobs to supervise and correct exams in the summer. The additional 20 days holidays the senior FAS executives have seem to be confined to FAS, or at least there's no mention of it in any other organisation. It's completely unnecessary and should be scrapped. As I said, everyone gets 20-25 days.

The one that really annoys me is the expenses claimed by the board members of the DDDA.

Story here: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/staff-and-executives-spent-8364500000-on-ddda-credit-cards-2092395.html

Where to start? First of all, they should only be able to claim for travel, accommodation and food. When flying, it should be by economy only. Hotels should be reasonable, 3-4 star depending on location / cost.

I would actually like to see something being done about the expenses that look personal, such as the 870 euro spent in a jewellers. If someone bought something for themselves, and got the state to pick up the tab, I would regard that as fraud and would like to see them charged accordingly.

FlutterinBantam

I can't understand why anyone should be surprised about that level of absenteeism amongst the porters.

bamboozle

rightwingdub wrote: »

Fire any porter who takes at least 12 days out sick each year, the whole catering and porting deoartment in the HSE should be privatised same with the cleaners, they should be outsourced to non unionised private companies. 26 days out sick each year:mad: that is disgraceful

100% with you, fire and implement long term plan to outsource.
bring in something like for anystaff member who has excess 8 sick days last year each sick day this year must be accompanied by a cert from a doctor.

Celticfire

zootroid wrote: »

Hospital porters are taking on average 26 sick days a year (1,438/54). Good old Ireland, just pull a sickie whenever you feel like it. Things like this don't surprise me anymore, but I would just like to see something done about it. We are borrowing far too much money, and stories like this just provide more examples of the litany of waste.

Ah yes the old " average " word thrown around. Tar all 54 porters with one broad brush. If there were 2 or 3 genuine long term sick, (due perhaps to on the job injuries) how would that skew the average numbers? 2 people out sick for a few months or even a year would help bump up the average sick days.

It's the growing trend in this forum to find anything that can be used to tar a broad group as (insert one) ... lazy, stupid, greedy etc etc...

bamboozle

Celticfire wrote: »

Ah yes the old " average " word thrown around. Tar all 54 porters with one broad brush. If there were 2 or 3 genuine long term sick, (due perhaps to on the job injuries) how would that skew the average numbers? 2 people out sick for a few months or even a year would help bump up the average sick days.

It's the growing trend in this forum to find anything that can be used to tar a broad group as (insert one) ... lazy, stupid, greedy etc etc...

if you read the article, you would see this wasnt the case.

gandalf

Celticfire wrote: »

Ah yes the old " average " word thrown around. Tar all 54 porters with one broad brush. If there were 2 or 3 genuine long term sick, (due perhaps to on the job injuries) how would that skew the average numbers? 2 people out sick for a few months or even a year would help bump up the average sick days.

It's the growing trend in this forum to find anything that can be used to tar a broad group as (insert one) ... lazy, stupid, greedy etc etc...

I think this case is an exception. I have no doubt that the majority in the PS want to do a good job and want to deliver good service. However there are a significant minority who don't, they are passengers and it would appear that these chaps are in that minority. I think its particularly telling that no response has come from Siptu who are fairly on the ball with debunking stories like this normally.

Can people not see why there is anger towards industrial action at the moment when it appears the unions defend the indefensible as it appears with this group of "workers"?

zootroid

Celticfire wrote: »

Ah yes the old " average " word thrown around. Tar all 54 porters with one broad brush. If there were 2 or 3 genuine long term sick, (due perhaps to on the job injuries) how would that skew the average numbers? 2 people out sick for a few months or even a year would help bump up the average sick days.

It's the growing trend in this forum to find anything that can be used to tar a broad group as (insert one) ... lazy, stupid, greedy etc etc...

No need to get so defensive. If you read the article, you would see that the absenteeism is characterised by "single day absences, ringing up at short notice and so on".

Now, that is one side of the story, and we should all wait to hear the other side before commenting. However, the union, SIPTU, said it would make a statement on Friday and not make any further comment. However, there is nothing on their website concerning this. Their silence would leave me to believe that what the HSE is saying is indeed correct.

There is also the issue of wildcat strikes, 4 in 2 months was the number given I think. I respect people's right to strike, if it is officially sanctioned by the union (that isn't to say I always agree with it though). When it is a wildcat strike, this should not be tolerated, and the workers should be sacked.

Celticfire

bamboozle wrote: »

if you read the article, you would see this wasnt the case.

Can you show me the part where it states that all the days lost were as a result of one day sickies?

Senior HSE management said the absenteeism among the 54 porters working at the hospital in Dooradoyle was now "a huge issue". A total of 1,438 working days were lost by porters at the hospital last year.

Manager of the HSE Mid-West Area, John O'Brien, said absenteeism levels among the porters was running at 15pc.

"The industry norm for sick leave is up to 4pc, so this is running at a very high level here. This is characterised by single day absences, ringing up at short notice and so on," Mr O'Brien said.

As I said before 2 or 3 people genuinely out on a work related injury could give you 700-800 days of that number quite easily.

gandalf

Celticfire wrote: »

Can you show me the part where it states that all the days lost were as a result of one day sickies?

You quoted it yourself.

This is characterised by single day absences, ringing up at short notice and so on," Mr O'Brien said.

Sleepy

But if we privatised it wouldn't the existing porters just end up 'creaming it' in the private sector company providing 'portage consultancy services' to the HSE?


(I had actually meant this post to be a point about the high salaries the porters are getting for the level of work they do but realised while typing it that given the incompetence of the HSE, what I intended as satire would almost certainly happen)

Celticfire

deadtiger wrote: »

You quoted it yourself.

Where does it say that all 1,438 days lost were one day sickies?

"The industry norm for sick leave is up to 4pc, so this is running at a very high level here. This is characterised by single day absences, ringing up at short notice and so on( perhaps on long term genuine sick ?)," Mr O'Brien said.

Long term genuine work related sick is also included just not mentioned.

zootroid

Celticfire wrote: »

Where does it say that all 1,438 days lost were one day sickies?



Long term genuine work related sick is also included just not mentioned.

So even though he explicity didn't say it, you're assuming there has to be someone who is on long term sick leave, despite the spokesman commenting on the statistics to say otherwise, and the silence from the union regarding the situation?

I think you're clutching at straws.

Mr. Presentable

The article posted by the OP is about management tackling an absenteeism issue. How odd to use it as a stick to beat the HSE.

HSE need to stop paying people for more than two sick days per year, and to have doctors certs furnished for each individual sick period - be it one day or one week.

The union may object, but that's how most the rest of the world (including most of the PS/CS) works.

HSE also needs to address the conditions as described in the article. I for one would not be pleased to know the porter moving me to or from theatre had no washing facilities.

Mr. Presentable

__________ wrote: »

It is widely accepted by pretty much everyone.

However most people are afraid to speak their mind for fear of repercussions.

I am not.

Widely accepted doesn't mean true. And I admire your lack of fear in speaking out, mr blank username. No irony there.

Sponge Bob

Problem with porters is that they bring people to wards not nurses. Even if ALL the porters are off on a sickie you cannot clear A&E because the restrictive practises mean that nurses are not allowed to do it or doctors or admins.

Same in Galway, once you are admitted to A&E you are not allowed to even walk to your sick bed, a porter must bring you.

A high level of absenteesim will cause absolute mayhem in any hospital and if the A&E is a long way from the wards even worse.

Celticfire

zootroid wrote: »

So even though he explicity didn't say it, you're assuming there has to be someone who is on long term sick leave, despite the spokesman commenting on the statistics to say otherwise, and the silence from the union regarding the situation?

I think you're clutching at straws.

No, you just like the way your thread title looked... it was bound to get the response you wanted.

I gave an perfectly reasonable argument as to how the numbers could be skewed to get people to react to the article. Certified sick also counts as absenteeism, where is that mentioned?

You contend that all days are one off uncertified sick days.
Don't know the exact number of uncertified sick days porters are entitled to but I'll hazard a guess that it's around 5- 7 days. So you're saying that porters are taking an average extra 21 days each without pay? Once you go over your allocated uncertified sick day amount you will be docked a day or night's pay.... I guess they must be really creaming it to give up 21 days pay just for the hell of it.

I'll also concede that perhaps there are some taking the pi$$ and abusing the system. Funny thing they're everywhere.

lamai

€27,504 to €30,525; the scale for theatre porters is €28,420 to €32,905.

nice pay for unskilled labour. And I am sure they earn alot more than that with

shifts.

murphaph

lamai wrote: »

€27,504 to €30,525; the scale for theatre porters is €28,420 to €32,905.

nice pay for unskilled labour. And I am sure they earn alot more than that with

shifts.

These are the "lower paid" public servants the union likes to bleat on about by the way. That's great money for unskilled labour. Best of luck finding a job in a factory on that sort of money!

zootroid

Celticfire wrote: »

No, you just like the way your thread title looked... it was bound to get the response you wanted.

I gave an perfectly reasonable argument as to how the numbers could be skewed to get people to react to the article. Certified sick also counts as absenteeism, where is that mentioned?

You contend that all days are one off uncertified sick days.
Don't know the exact number of uncertified sick days porters are entitled to but I'll hazard a guess that it's around 5- 7 days. So you're saying that porters are taking an average extra 21 days each without pay? Once you go over your allocated uncertified sick day amount you will be docked a day or night's pay.... I guess they must be really creaming it to give up 21 days pay just for the hell of it.

I'll also concede that perhaps there are some taking the pi$$ and abusing the system. Funny thing they're everywhere.

I never said that. I am just pointing out that given the language used by the HSE spokesman, it appears there are a number of people abusing the system, ringing up at short notice and pulling a sickie.

It is unreasonable to suggest out of the 54 porters employed, none will be genuinely sick over the course of the year. But having said that I am inclined to believe what the spokesman has said.

Secondly, just because they're everywhere doesn't make it right. As taxpayers, we should expect higher standards, instead of seeing money being wasted for work that is not performed.

Celticfire

zootroid wrote: »

I never said that. I am just pointing out that given the language used by the HSE spokesman, it appears there are a number of people abusing the system, ringing up at short notice and pulling a sickie.

Do you plan ahead as to when you are going to be sick? Of course some are going to ring up at short notice.

It is unreasonable to suggest out of the 54 porters employed, none will be genuinely sick over the course of the year. But having said that I am inclined to believe what the spokesman has said.

So you do believe that the porters took on average 21 unpaid days then?
If they abused the uncertified so much it's managements prerogative with the right warnings to remove individuals from the sick scheme so they would have no uncertified sick days to take. Problem solved... (if there was one to begin with)

Secondly, just because they're everywhere doesn't make it right. As taxpayers, we should expect higher standards, instead of seeing money being wasted for work that is not performed.

That's the hospital managers job to deal with that not yours. Are we going to micro manage everything based on a one sided article we read in the paper?

lamai

murphaph wrote: »

These are the "lower paid" public servants the union likes to bleat on about by the way. That's great money for unskilled labour. Best of luck finding a job in a factory on that sort of money!

I have a 3rd level qualification and did not earn any where near 32,000 after 5

years exp.. nor did I have unions or pickets, when my boss told me they were

struggling, and I had to go on minium wage, I had to accept it, as I did not

have another choice. most of the public service make me want to vomit.

jmayo

Speaking as someone whose spouse works in patient treatment in public healthcare system, I would say to use her words they are a lazy inconsiderate bunch of wasters.

The amount of stories I have heard where when these people are asked for their help with patients either she or her colleagues are greeted with the standard responses: "I am on my break", "that's not my job", "I am finished for the day" and "I haven't clocked on yet".

The other snippet from the coalface of front line staff is that by not been allowed to answer their phones their workload has increased.
If someone rings them, they are not supposed to answer but listen to their messages later.
Then they have to ring the caller back but if the other department is likewise not allowed answer their phones, then they have to physically walk there to have a conversation.

Is it hurting the government ? Hell no, they couldn't care less.

Who is this hurting, but the end users of the services i.e. the patients.
Another bright concept by the unions in how to win friends and influence people.
A complete bunch of useless spanners the lot of them.

zootroid

Celticfire wrote: »

Do you plan ahead as to when you are going to be sick? Of course some are going to ring up at short notice.

Of course not, but in the majority of cases people I work with notice than I am beginning to fall ill. In the case of the hospital, the spokesman said the absences are characterized by people ringing at short notice just for a day.

So you do believe that the porters took on average 21 unpaid days then?
If they abused the uncertified so much it's managements prerogative with the right warnings to remove individuals from the sick scheme so they would have no uncertified sick days to take. Problem solved... (if there was one to begin with)

No, I think the porters took sick days when they weren't sick, and got paid for them.
You would like to think it would be as simple as that, but given how difficult it is for management to prove someone was not in fact ill when they weren't at their place of work, and given how likely it is for their union to support them, perhaps by strike action, it may not be so easy. An easier option may be not to pay workers for days missed, unless there is a doctors note proving they were indeed sick. Another option may be to do away with salaried workers, and pay them an hourly rate. Or, as was noted in the article, to outsource the activity to the private sector.

That's the hospital managers job to deal with that not yours. Are we going to micro manage everything based on a one sided article we read in the paper?

The union has had the opportunity to respond to the HSE, but has failed to do so. That leads me to believe that what the HSE is saying is true. And I'm hardly micro managing anything, just pointing out an article that shows how money is being wasted in the HSE. Also, it is in the news today that unions in 7 hospitals are planning to strike. Stories like this one do little to generate sympathy for the strikers cause.

gandalf

jmayo wrote: »

Is it hurting the government ? Hell no, they couldn't care less.

Who is this hurting, but the end users of the services i.e. the patients.
Another bright concept by the unions in how to win friends and influence people.
A complete bunch of useless spanners the lot of them.

I would also say this is hurting the people at the front-line by making their jobs far more complicated than they need to be. To have to work around the idiots on these go slows and try and do their general duties.

Anyone I know working in the Frontline be they nurses, doctors, Gardai and Prison Officers (don't know any Firemen or Paramedics) care about the people they deal with and hate the fact they cannot give the service they should be able to give because of the ineptitude of the people who are supposed to be backing them up in administration and management.

goat2

murphaph wrote: »

These are the "lower paid" public servants the union likes to bleat on about by the way. That's great money for unskilled labour. Best of luck finding a job in a factory on that sort of
money!

i could not beleive that cleaners hired by the private companies get 9.50 euro per hour, for very hard labour, the hospitals were far better off when they were the employers of the cleaners, there were not the complaints we have now, why should the cleaners kill themselves any way on 9.50 per hour,
as for sick leave, these should monitered and if the same people are getting sick on very important days like around Christmas and easter and weekends of football, that should be noted, as it could become a habit, as much as an illness

Celticfire

zootroid wrote:

Of course not, but in the majority of cases people I work with notice than I am beginning to fall ill. In the case of the hospital, the spokesman said the absences are characterized by people ringing at short notice just for a day.

Nowhere did he state that all absenteeism was as a result of one off sick days. If it had been stated and a definitive number given then there could have been no disagreement. But as it stands it's a statement from management that suits their argument. It's one sided and misleading.

No, I think the porters took sick days when they weren't sick, and got paid for them.
You would like to think it would be as simple as that, but given how difficult it is for management to prove someone was not in fact ill when they weren't at their place of work, and given how likely it is for their union to support them, perhaps by strike action, it may not be so easy. An easier option may be not to pay workers for days missed, unless there is a doctors note proving they were indeed sick. Another option may be to do away with salaried workers, and pay them an hourly rate. Or, as was noted in the article, to outsource the activity to the private sector.

]

How about following the procedures they already have in place? There are ways to deal with it without having to run to the paper.
I have already explained that when you abuse the uncertified sick you can be brought to task over it. That is why I don't believe for one moment that anyone could possibly have 21 extra uncertified sick days paid to them.

The main crux of that article is that management and the porters have some sort of problem (rest rooms or whatever) now management air the dirty laundry to the press to paint the porters in a bad light. OP starts thread title worthy of a red top and now porters are the new teachers ,gardas ,nurses.....

It's management's job to manage things like sick leave and if they can't then they are incapable of doing their job.

Stories like this one do little to generate sympathy for the strikers cause.

Keep up the good work

Head The Wall

Celticfire do you think HSE management would have raised this absenteeism issue if it was caused by some people being on long term sick leave. They would be aware if that was skewing the figures.

You're not going to explain this one away, spout rubbish all you want you're the only one that's believing it

bamboozle

Head The Wall wrote: »

Celticfire do you think HSE management would have raised this absenteeism issue if it was caused by some people being on long term sick leave. They would be aware if that was skewing the figures.

You're not going to explain this one away, spout rubbish all you want you're the only one that's believing it

if you do want to be bemused by long term sick leave in the HSE check out this article

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eymhkfidmhgb/

one person has received over 300k since their last day of work 13 years ago!!!

Tipp Man

I've told this story before but it applies here

My sister is a nurse in my local hospital and she was doing a course out of the Regional hospital (on a part time basis) so she would get books from the Regional hospitals library as she needed after classes. The classes were rare as the course is over 2 years, maybe 2 days a month

Now the local hospital is about 35 miles from the regional hospital and her house is at least 45 miles, about an hours drive. So when she needed to return the books she would give them to the ambulance drivers in the local hospital to give to the porters to return in the regional hospital. The ambulance drivers gladly did it, there would be anything from 5-10 trips by the ambulances per day and it was no skin off their back.

Anyway after a couple of times the porters refused to accept the books from the ambulance drivers saying it wasn't part of their job and went to the union who supported them fully and said they should have nothing to do with it.

The drivers (a couple of whom were very friendly with my sister) said fair enough, don't bother, we'll take the books back to the library ourselves. The porters then went to the union saying that under no circumstances were the ambulance drivers to return books as that was not there job and any work of that kind is a porters - despite the fact they point blank refused to do it - guess what the unions backed the porters up and the drivers were warned not to do it or face discipline.

So when my sister asked how was she suppossed to get the books back she was told that she could either post them (big books, cost a pure fortune) or drive the 45 miles on her days off

Now how on earth can anybody justify those actions?? its pure madness and the sooner that the unions in this country are brought to their knees the better, the are one of the biggest evils in Irish soceity as they will break the country, in fact they already are breaking it

Celticfire

Head The Wall wrote: »

Celticfire do you think HSE management would have raised this absenteeism issue if it was caused by some people being on long term sick leave. They would be aware if that was skewing the figures.

You're not going to explain this one away, spout rubbish all you want you're the only one that's believing it

If you believe that any worker in the public sector would be allowed take 26 uncertified sick days and get paid for them never mind being punished then your mind is already made up and nothing that I or anyone else will say can change it.

The_Honeybadger

LOL TippMan thats a f**ing classic:D! Is that true, surely nobody could be so utterly ridiculous, why should the porters care if the ambulance drivers carry books to the library or not. If that's the type of nonsense that goes on then redundancies and privatisation immediately.

Head The Wall

Celticfire wrote: »

If you believe that any worker in the public sector would be allowed take 26 uncertified sick days and get paid for them never mind being punished then your mind is already made up and nothing that I or anyone else will say can change it.

Answer the question that was asked of you - this is not a long term sick leave issue nor is it anything to do with whether they are uncertified or paid for them.

The issue is they are taking the urine and the HSE are calling them out on it.

Answer the question!!

Celticfire

Head The Wall wrote: »

Celticfire do you think HSE management would have raised this absenteeism issue if it was caused by some people being on long term sick leave. They would be aware if that was skewing the figures.

Gosh no :rolleyes:

bamboozle

Tipp Man wrote: »

I've told this story before but it applies here

My sister is a nurse in my local hospital and she was doing a course out of the Regional hospital (on a part time basis) so she would get books from the Regional hospitals library as she needed after classes. The classes were rare as the course is over 2 years, maybe 2 days a month

Now the local hospital is about 35 miles from the regional hospital and her house is at least 45 miles, about an hours drive. So when she needed to return the books she would give them to the ambulance drivers in the local hospital to give to the porters to return in the regional hospital. The ambulance drivers gladly did it, there would be anything from 5-10 trips by the ambulances per day and it was no skin off their back.

Anyway after a couple of times the porters refused to accept the books from the ambulance drivers saying it wasn't part of their job and went to the union who supported them fully and said they should have nothing to do with it.

The drivers (a couple of whom were very friendly with my sister) said fair enough, don't bother, we'll take the books back to the library ourselves. The porters then went to the union saying that under no circumstances were the ambulance drivers to return books as that was not there job and any work of that kind is a porters - despite the fact they point blank refused to do it - guess what the unions backed the porters up and the drivers were warned not to do it or face discipline.

So when my sister asked how was she suppossed to get the books back she was told that she could either post them (big books, cost a pure fortune) or drive the 45 miles on her days off

Now how on earth can anybody justify those actions?? its pure madness and the sooner that the unions in this country are brought to their knees the better, the are one of the biggest evils in Irish soceity as they will break the country, in fact they already are breaking it

that's pure comical...but not suprising.

isnt there some bizarre situation whereby if someone needs to be dropped home from hospital by ambulance, the hospital need to ring a taxi to follow the ambulance with the personal belongings of the patient as the ambulance drivers refuse to transport these.

Tipp Man

mickeyk wrote: »

LOL TippMan thats a f**ing classic:D! Is that true, surely nobody could be so utterly ridiculous, why should the porters care if the ambulance drivers carry books to the library or not. If that's the type of nonsense that goes on then redundancies and privatisation immediately.

It most certainly is true, I couldn't make it up even if i tried!!

But it just highlights the level of uselessness that we are dealing with and the mentality of the unions,

We can never have any kind of efficient Public Sector while these morons are around

Tipp Man

bamboozle wrote: »

that's pure comical...but not suprising.

isnt there some bizarre situation whereby if someone needs to be dropped home from hospital by ambulance, the hospital need to ring a taxi to follow the ambulance with the personal belongings of the patient as the ambulance drivers refuse to transport these.

I haven't heard about that but don't doubt it

but I do know for a fact that in my local hospital that there was a dispute regarding moving bodies to the mortuary i.e. whoever was doing it was refusing to do it

So my local hospital was paying 2 funeral parlours to come up to the hospital, at all hours, and move the bodies from 1 section of the hospital to the other. God only knows how much it was costing

I really think that we have no clue about the waste, carelessness and general uselessness that goes on in the Public Sector - we only hear about the tip of the iceberg and I'd say we'd be shocked beyond belief if we knew the half of it

Bill Board

Well before this turns into another public vs private thread, id just like to pop in and say that i work in the MWRH in limerick and i can tell ye it doesnt surprise me to see this post about sick pay. The porters down there are without doubt the greatest shower of wasters i have ever come across! While im not going to paint them all with the one brush, the majority of them are absolutely pathetic. We (nurses) ring them to bring a patient to xray or to another ward and they wont show up for 3-4 hours if they do at all. And many wont answer your call, they just hide away in their sitting room reading newspapers. It drives me mad that everyone else has a job to do and we do it well while these wasters get away doing nothing! No surprise the HSE is a sinking ship paying people who sit round all day. Ask any other staff working in there, what are the porters like and they will all say the same, ignorant, useless and disrespectful to both the patients and staff. Those responsible for hiring these cowboys have a lot to answer for aswell. This has been going on for an age, and nothing is been done about it, suppose its the same with anything thats not bought to the medias attention. The hospital is run by very poor management and that allows the porters to do as they please. Sorry about venting my frustrations, but i wanted to paint a clearer picture as to what these lads are like. If it was up to me they would be fired a long time ago! Cheers