'All the wrong options have been pursued'

Time Magazine

efla wrote: »

I'm just reacting to nesf.

No problem, he gets everyone's backs up now and again :pac:

But surely dialogue is preferable?

"Dialogue" is a one way to put it.

Unjustly dragging the name of economics through the media whirlwind again is another. Average Joe thinks Dan McLaughlin and Eddie Hobbs when they hear "economists", not Philip Lane or Brian Nolan.

These lads are welcome to express their opinions, as I am welcome to comment on animal rights. I'm not going to call myself a legal expert because I did a six-week law course when I was in secondary school. It is extremely disingenuous to mislead the public like this.

I'm not sure whether it's an editorial mistake or whether it was a bit of a cheeky move by the "28 leading economists, social scientists and economic analysts." Nonetheless, it's a bit of a farce.

Glancing through the names i recognize some projects/departments who should have something to contribute - if not specifically to your area of expertise (which i dont at all dispute).

Yup, I like James Wickham's book on transport in Dublin; Seán Ó Riain has done some great stuff on the unemployment scenario; and I'm sure Peter Connell is a perfectly competent IT consultant.

Do you take issue with the content or title?

The title is awfully misleading.

The content is fairly vacuous. Statements like "[Government cut-backs] will depress economic activity even further" are of course correct, but as irrational booms have shown time and time again economic activity can be over-stretched and need to be pulled back. The authors are entitled to their opinions, and dialogue is welcome. But the bit of authority that the title gives it makes it unfair on the public to think that this is some sort of genuine economic analysis.

And for what it's worth, if some relatively-unpublished Austrian economist managed to get himself a teaching job in Blanch IT and started spouting such political rhetoric, I'd jump on it as well.

nesf

efla wrote: »

I'm just reacting to nesf.

Why though? Do you believe Sociologists are qualified to give macroeconomic policy advice?

Flamed Diving

Deleted User wrote: »

Been studying Argentina much?!

Yes, actually. But pre-1810 Argentina. So not quite the same thing, either.

SLUSK

Now when all other options have failed lets try free markets anyone?

Ostrom

nesf wrote: »

Why though? Do you believe Sociologists are qualified to give macroeconomic policy advice?

Absolutely not, but I do believe that some have valid contributions to make beyond macro policy - the title is compltely inappropriate, and on second reading it does more of a disservice to ourselves than economics.

The problem (and unfortunate reality) is that most Irish sociology departments are staffed by researchers engaged with cultural studies. I'm not suggesting their work is of any less value, but (in this case) it doesn't inspire confidence reading contributons in quantitative American sociology that contribute useful findings to public policy debates.

Probably good old physics envy on my part however....

efla

efla wrote: »

Absolutely not, but I do believe that some have valid contributions to make beyond macro policy - the title is compltely inappropriate, and on second reading it does more of a disservice to ourselves than economics.

The problem (and unfortunate reality) is that most Irish sociology departments are staffed by researchers engaged with cultural studies. I'm not suggesting their work is of any less value, but (in this case) it doesn't inspire confidence reading contributons in quantitative American sociology that contribute useful findings to public policy debates.

Probably good old physics envy on my part however....

Honestly, there is room in this debate for both macroeconomists and sociologists. There are key fundamentals which seem to have been ignored in the debate that should be the realm of macroeconomists - but also we (I use the term as a macroeconomist-in-training) are guilty of missing out on the more human aspect of policy.

Instead however, based on reading the comments over on irisheconomy.ie, it seems the barricades have been raised and shots are flying back between both camps. Pity really, as a solid interdisciplinary analysis is what seems to be required but none of the top people qualified to perform such a task seem that interested in working with other groups.

noodler

If anybody wants to see what Economists thought of the letter..

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/03/08/all-the-wrong-options-have-been-pursued/


Philip Lane of TCD (more businessby profession than Economics but the man is very knowledgable on all things in the economy- I only bring this up because of the profession debate in the thread) felt the investment ideas were sound for the most part but that the fiscal austerity was absolutely essential and that the government was right to take do it.

Time Magazine

noodler wrote: »

Philip Lane of TCD (more businessby profession than Economics but the man is very knowledgable on all things in the economy- I only bring this up because of the profession debate in the thread)

Philip has a PhD in Economics from Harvard. He's very much an economist.

Flamed Diving

Phillip Lane

Professional Positions

Professor of International Macroeconomics, Trinity College Dublin, October 2004 to present

Director, Institute for International Integration Studies (IIIS), Trinity College Dublin, January 2002 to September 2008

Associate Professor of Economics, Trinity College Dublin, October 2000 to September 2004

Lecturer in Economics, Trinity College Dublin, July 1997 to September 2000

Assistant Professor of Economics and International Affairs , Columbia University, July 1995 to June 1997

Education

PhD, Economics, Harvard University, June 1995. Thesis Title: ``Essays in International Macroeconomics.''

A.M., Economics, Harvard University, November 1993.

B.A. (Mod.) (Econ.), First Class Honours and Gold Medal, Trinity College, University of Dublin, June 1991.

Économiste Monétaire

I don't believe many people would categorise Philip Lane as B-Schooler over economist, given his record of publications (and the fact he's head of the economics department at TCD). He's arguably Ireland's most prominent economist.

noodler

Time Magazine wrote: »

Philip has a PhD in Economics from Harvard. He's very much an economist.

Thats not really what I was getting at, I was simply stating his current profession in TCD before someone jumped down my throat here about it (given we are in a thread moaning about sociologists etc piping in about economic concerns).


EDIT: To the two above posters, again I know his record I was just second guessing any criticism.

Flamed Diving

noodler wrote: »

Thats not really what I was getting at, I was simply stating his current profession in TCD before someone jumped down my throat here about it (given we are in a thread moaning about sociologists etc piping in about economic concerns).

You're not making any sense.

Économiste Monétaire

noodler wrote: »

Thats not really what I was getting at, I was simply stating his current profession in TCD before someone jumped down my throat here about it (given we are in a thread moaning about sociologists etc piping in about economic concerns).


EDIT: To the two above posters, again I know his record I was just second guessing any criticism.

No one is jumping down your throat. I think it's more bemusement that someone would categorise Lane as a business guy. You might be confusing him with Brian Lucey.

noodler

Flamed Diving wrote: »

You're not making any sense.

I apologise, I will try and elaborate more, I didn't want somebody with no prior knowledge of the man to jump in and say he has more of a business role at TCD given the majority of the posts here were critical of the list of names attached the to IT article (which also contains many business and finance names).

I apologise if I implied in any way that Philip Lane was in any way not qualified to speak on the economy - I have followed him for more than three years and have great respect for his work.

noodler

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

No one is jumping down your throat. I think it's more bemusement that someone would categorise Lane as a business guy. You might be confusing him with Brian Lucey.

Thats exactly what I did. Mixed up their professions.

Slip of the hand, move along - nothing to see here.

Time Magazine

noodler wrote: »

I apologise, I will try and elaborate more, I didn't want somebody with no prior knowledge of the man to jump in and say he has more of a business role at TCD given the majority of the posts here were critical of the list of names attached the to IT article (which also contains many business and finance names).

It looks as though the three of us are on offensive here, sorry about that. We're not, we just like claiming Lane as one of our legion

I have followed him for more than three years

I'm surprised he hasn't submitted for a restraining order at this stage :pac:

Économiste Monétaire

Lucey is the dirty B-Schooler; Lane is the Godly economist . Lucey can often be seen pimping his MSc course to undergrads in the postgrad section, while also writing to the Irish Times.

noodler

Hey I may only have the Masters but I certainly consider myself to be in the economist camp than any other business of socilogical camp.

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

Lucey is the dirty B-Schooler; Lane is the Godly economist . Lucey can often be seen pimping his MSc course to undergrads in the postgrad section, while also writing to the Irish Times.

I swear I didn't mix the men up - just their professions. I SWEAR!

noodler

And anyway back to the link I was whoring before I put my foot in my mouth.

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/03/08/all-the-wrong-options-have-been-pursued/

blucey

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

I don't believe many people would categorise Philip Lane as B-Schooler over economist, given his record of publications (and the fact he's head of the economics department at TCD). He's arguably Ireland's most prominent economist.

Whats wrong with B-School economists pray tell....some of us even have publications....

Économiste Mon&#233 wrote: »

Lucey is the dirty B-Schooler; Lane is the Godly economist . Lucey can often be seen pimping his MSc course to undergrads in the postgrad section, while also writing to the Irish Times.

and its only pimping if you take pleasure in it and wear a fur coat in the daylight....:) or dont economists like the market now ???
BTW - the course is now the only one in Ireland with university partnership in both PRMIA and CFA...
http://people.tcd.ie/blucey

a 'real' economist would have linked to REPEC!

Brian's REPEC page: http://ideas.repec.org/e/plu85.html

blucey

Deleted User wrote: »

a 'real' economist would have linked to REPEC!

Brian's REPEC page: http://ideas.repec.org/e/plu85.html

pah. next you'll be saying "use LaTex" ....
No. serious social scientists now go to SSRN ....why not visit here, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=143468, download some papers....you know you want to. :pac:

Économiste Monétaire

blucey wrote: »

Whats wrong with B-School economists pray tell....some of us even have publications....

If you like teaching arts students Ito calculus from scratch every year, kudos .

blucey wrote: »

and its only pimping if you take pleasure in it and wear a fur coat in the daylight....:) or dont economists like the market now ???
BTW - the course is now the only one in Ireland with university partnership in both PRMIA and CFA...
http://people.tcd.ie/blucey

I have a strange image of you strutting around TCD with a fur coat, fedora and diamond encrusted cane handing out application forms...

Flamed Diving

Does SSRN provide information on where the paper had been referenced in? (citing forward?)

Économiste Monétaire

blucey wrote: »

pah. next you'll be saying "use LaTex" ....
No. serious social scientists now go to SSRN ....why not visit here, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=143468, download some papers....you know you want to. :pac:

LaTeX is a tool of the Gods; criticism is akin to Blasphemy.

Time Magazine

blucey wrote: »

pah. next you'll be saying "use LaTex" ....

Now, now. Stop sounding like Willie O'Dea.

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

LaTeX is a tool of the Gods; criticism is akin to Blasphemy.

We've been through this before. It might possibly have had something to do with Brian having better things to do, but it should be noted that the eminent professor ran and hid from the debate as fast as his Kerry ass could carry him :pac:

blucey

Time Magazine wrote: »

Now, now. Stop sounding like Willie O'Dea.


We've been through this before. It might possibly have had something to do with Brian having better things to do, but it should be noted that the eminent professor ran and hid from the debate as fast as his Kerry ass could carry him :pac:

See, im old enough to remember when word processers ALL were code based. So, for me, wisiwyg is still a fantastic tool. So, I sneer at your codebased systems. Give me something to click anyday.

I have a strange image of you strutting around TCD with a fur coat, fedora and diamond encrusted cane handing out application forms...

As a fellow, I think it my duty to liven the gaff up....plus, fedora's are wayyy cool.

Économiste Monétaire

blucey wrote: »

As a fellow, I think it my duty to liven the gaff up....plus, fedora's are wayyy cool.

"Hey, baby, let me tell you 'bout my d-dimensional Brownian motion and it's adaptivity."