Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

KCAccidental

Thought this was quite interesting. Single tunnel bore would certainly save money, but as far as I know Barcelona's Line 9 was delayed quite a bit in construction

A giant tunnel-boring machine would allow a Projet Montréal administration to build an entirely new Metro line for under $6 billion, the opposition municipal party said Tuesday at a campaign announcement.

A promise to build the so-called Pink line is the capstone in the party's bid to unseat Équipe Denis Coderre from city hall in next month's municipal election. It would represent the most ambitious expansion of Montreal's Metro system since the late 1980s.

Projet's leader, Valérie Plante, first proposed a new Metro line that would link Montreal North to downtown during last year's race for her party's leadership.

But today's announcement marks the first time Plante has provided more extensive details about the proposal. Her party's chances of success in the Nov. 5 election depend on the project being taken seriously.

In documents released at a technical briefing, the party outlined its belief that innovative new construction techniques could be used to build 21 kilometres of underground track diagonally across the island.

It points to the use of tunnel-boring machines that allowed Barcelona to build a new subway line deep underground, with relatively minor disruption to residents and businesses above the route.

Like Barcelona's Line 9, the Pink line's northbound and southbound tracks would be built one on top of the other.

The proposed line would cover some of the most densely populated and economically disadvantaged neighbourhoods in Montreal, none of which are now served by the Metro system.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/new-metro-line-with-29-stations-would-cost-less-than-6b-projet-montr%C3%A9al-says-1.4348035

murphaph

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Easy to fund the Motorway network I suppose when the state was enjoying the highest GDP figures in its history all above 8/9% per annum for 10 years straight.

It has much more to do with the fact the motorway network directly and obviously benefits large swathes of the country. Dublin rail infrastructure (despite making absolute economic sense) remains a hard sell to much of the electorate, who fail to associate an economically strong Dublin with a prosperous Ireland.

Idbatterim

given that the motorway network is nearly complete, bar m20 and galway bypass and any other schemes would be mickey mouse in the scheme of things. Hopefully far more is now spent on rail, given the huge sums that have gone into road building. The only other massive road building project would be the eastern bypass. But if MN and Du were built, it could take massive pressure off the m50, which may push the need for it back years ...

roddney

Due to start construction in 2021, apparently
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/major-boost-for-dublin-as-construction-work-on-metro-north-to-get-underway-in-2021-36218162.html

Zebra3

Idbatterim wrote: »

given that the motorway network is nearly complete, bar m20 and galway bypass and any other schemes would be mickey mouse in the scheme of things. Hopefully far more is now spent on rail, given the huge sums that have gone into road building. The only other massive road building project would be the eastern bypass. But if MN and Du were built, it could take massive pressure off the m50, which may push the need for it back years ...

There is no need for an eastern bypass of Dublin. It won’t solve anything, just cause more cars to be on the road.

Idbatterim

roddney wrote: »

Due to start construction in 2021, apparently
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/major-boost-for-dublin-as-construction-work-on-metro-north-to-get-underway-in-2021-36218162.html

a decade off! LOL... surely they will be running the tbm 24 hours through greenfield or industrial areas?

dublinman1990

roddney wrote: »

Due to start construction in 2021, apparently
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/major-boost-for-dublin-as-construction-work-on-metro-north-to-get-underway-in-2021-36218162.html

Are the length of the platforms & the trains for MN coming from that press conference corresponding with New MN or is it now called Metro Dublin?

How will money be funded to build the project? Is it public or the private sector?

Spanish Eyes

Very little information in the Indo article.

Why the wait until 2021? I realise there are planning and scoping issues, but honestly, at this rate we will all be dead and buried before anything like this comes to fruition.

LeinsterDub

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Very little information in the Indo article.

Why the wait until 2021? I realise there are planning and scoping issues, but honestly, at this rate we will all be dead and buried before anything like this comes to fruition.

I'm prepared to wait 3 years if they a) actually do it b) don't compromise the design of stuff like surface running or platform length

Spanish Eyes

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm prepared to wait 3 years if they a) actually do it b) don't compromise the design of stuff like surface running or platform length

Fair enough.

I hope it happens, really do, even though I will get no benefit at all from it. Have to look at the big picture!

Greenmachine

I won't start to believe it till the first sod is turned. As much as we need MN it was first muted as far back as 2000 iirc.

marno21

We knew about the 2021 start date before today.

It's not starting until 2021 because funding for it isn't there until then. It looks very likely at present for it to start in 2021 because funding for it has been ringfenced.

LeinsterDub

Greenmachine wrote: »

I won't start to believe it till the first sod is turned. As much as we need MN it was first muted as far back as 2000 iirc.

It's muted long before that. The green line was meant to run to the northside properly originally.

Kermit.de.frog

Why the hell would this take 6 years to build???

LeinsterDub

marno21 wrote: »

We knew about the 2021 start date before today.

It's not starting until 2021 because funding for it isn't there until then. It looks very likely at present for it to start in 2021 because funding for it has been ringfenced.

We all know the funding for it is there if they wanted

Idbatterim

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why the hell would this take 6 years to build???

Id also like to hear that! Also would it make sense to get pp for 2 schemes? i.e. metro to airport and then another pp for onto swords? in case **** hits the fan again, they could go out to airport at least. isnt swords getting the pathetic brt anyway? only issue with that I can think of would be, where is the depot planned for?

Idbatterim

We all know the funding for it is there if they wanted

yup they managed to pluck 400,000,000 or so out of thin air for the welfare budget. thats 400,000,000 this year and say for another 9 on top of that, i.e. a decade. would have funded a bloody good chunk of MN and DU... watch them pull a few hundred million more out for bull**** again next year... :mad:

Grandeeod

marno21 wrote: »

We knew about the 2021 start date before today.

It's not starting until 2021 because funding for it isn't there until then. It looks very likely at present for it to start in 2021 because funding for it has been ringfenced.

Funding ringfenced? Like the funding for Transport 21 was ringfenced in 2005? Exact words out of martin Cullens mouth. I'm stunned by the naivety here sometimes. You can't ringfence money you don't have. Projections are utterly unreliable too.

Spanish Eyes

Yer man the Indo Minister for Transport will be long gone by then. What's his name again? Oh yes the silent one.

Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

yup they managed to pluck 400,000,000 or so out of thin air for the welfare budget. thats 400,000,000 this year and say for another 9 on top of that, i.e. a decade. would have funded a bloody good chunk of MN and DU... watch them pull a few hundred million more out for bull**** again next year... :mad:

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. If the will was there, both the metro line and DU would be built pronto. However, the wonderful world of political chicanery has come into play. Park DU on the basis of cost and a required redesign. Promote a metro, rename it to put the current Government stamp on it, then park it up for a while on the basis it being redesigned too. This scenario has resulted in two camps across those interested. In one camp you have people excited at these brilliant plans and in the other camp you have people who know full well its all utter BS and fudging. I remember back to 2003 and the same excitement building about both these projects. Even then, it was possible to tell that a cash rich Government were far from committed.

Mutant z

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why the hell would this take 6 years to build???

Because nothing ever seems to go to plan in this country i dont hold out much hope this getting off the ground at all, first it was supposed to have started in 2011, then it got pushed back to 2017/2018, and now its been pushed back again this seems to be a pattern, basically its looking like they are finding any excuse not to build it and are merely stringing the rest of the country along and keep giving dates without seriously believing it will even go ahead.

wakka12

2021? Wow I consider myself an optimistic person but Id honestly not be surprised at this stage if Dublin literally never gets a metro, in our lifetime at least

marno21

Lads, 2021 is 3-4 years away.

How many of ye genuinely expected it to be under construction before then? It doesn't even have planning permission yet.

Sam Russell

Idbatterim wrote: »

Id also like to hear that! Also would it make sense to get pp for 2 schemes? i.e. metro to airport and then another pp for onto swords? in case **** hits the fan again, they could go out to airport at least. isnt swords getting the pathetic brt anyway? only issue with that I can think of would be, where is the depot planned for?

I would actually start at Airport and build a depot, and out to Swords and towards Ballymun with totally segregated running either by elevated, or cut and cover construction. It could be a rapid build for that section.

This approach would get staff travelling on it if no-one else. Buses could be put to use for the CC bit of people commute. It would also be the cheapest part to construct.

Dyr

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would actually start at Airport and build a depot, and out to Swords and towards Ballymun with totally segregated running either by elevated, or cut and cover construction. It could be a rapid build for that section..

I'm sure people would have a lot to say about "ah yeah driving a railway division though towns is grand for out there"

Grandeeod

marno21 wrote: »

Lads, 2021 is 3-4 years away.

How many of ye genuinely expected it to be under construction before then? It doesn't even have planning permission yet.

For people that aren't as interested as us, they won't be as clued in as us. However they are seeing it as a project that was officially put into the public domain 12 years ago. The current version is a classic example of needless political interference. FF did it to luas in 1997, when the outgoing FG government had it ready to go.

Sam Russell

Bambi wrote: »

I'm sure people would have a lot to say about "ah yeah driving a railway division though towns is grand for out there"

I do not understand the point you are making.

Swords to the Airport is largely open countryside. Airport to Ballymun is probably down the R108. It should either be elevated above it or cut and cover below it. Running at street level would be a nonsense.

At some point it goes underground as far as Charlemont or Ranelagh. That can be done as phase II. It will take longer and cost a lot more per Km.

spacetweek

Sam Russell wrote: »

I do not understand the point you are making.

Swords to the Airport is largely open countryside. Airport to Ballymun is probably down the R108. It should either be elevated above it or cut and cover below it. Running at street level would be a nonsense.

At some point it goes underground as far as Charlemont or Ranelagh. That can be done as phase II. It will take longer and cost a lot more per Km.

In fact the plan under New (i.e. not as good) Metro North is to run Airport-Swords at ground level to save money. It's an example of a feature which I'd see being restored to the original elevated plan once designers come to their senses.

strassenwo!f

marno21 wrote: »

We knew about the 2021 start date before today.

It's not starting until 2021 because funding for it isn't there until then. It looks very likely at present for it to start in 2021 because funding for it has been ringfenced.

The 34.1 billion of transport21 for the years 2005-2015 was ringfenced. That was until most of it was used to bail out the banks. The money that went into the National Pension Reserve Fund, including a large amount from the privatisation of eircom, was also ringfenced and to be used only for building a decent pension fund. Until a very large chunk also went into the banks. 'Ringfencing' in Ireland doesn't necessarily mean what 'ringfencing' should mean.

jd

spacetweek wrote: »

In fact the plan under New (i.e. not as good) Metro North is to run Airport-Swords at ground level to save money.

I think you meant to say Ballymun to Airport