Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

D.L.R.

Be surprised if this is under construction in 4 years time. That's wildly optimistic for the Irish state.

KCAccidental

Has the original planning permission for MN expired yet?

lateconnection

Today's announcement is nothing new, just the government reinventing the wheel and acting like the 2021 start date is a new piece of info on the project. Only we have known that for the last 2 years.

When is the route going to be announced?, this project was announced in its inferior form in September 2015 and still nothing on the route 2 years later. If they want to start in 2021, they better get moving.

Dublin Airport is growing rapidly, Luas Green line is turning into the Tokyo Subway at rush hours in terms of congestion, long bus journey times to the airport at rush hour, and still MN is 10 years away.

Sad to realise that if the govt gave Original MN funding in 2015 instead of inferior optimised MN, it could have started construction in 2016 and opened in 2022. Even if they gave funding to original MN now, they could start building in 2018, and it would be open it in 2024. Three years earlier than 2027.

The lack of sensible thinking when it comes to infrastructure in this country sickens me.

KCAccidental

I think to a certain extent politicians are the monkeys and it's the senior civil servants who are the organ grinders when it comes to spending money on Infrastructure. No coincidence that those civil servants have free use of prime parking space

Spanish Eyes

KCAccidental wrote: »

I think to a certain extent politicians are the monkeys and it's the senior civil servants who are the organ grinders when it comes to spending money on Infrastructure. No coincidence that those civil servants have free use of prime parking space

Reminds me of all the talk about alcohol restrictions and the minimum unit pricing, and it's all for our own good etc.

Yet the members of the Dail spouting all this nanny state stuff have a bar in their workplace (anyone else have that?) at subsidised prices. Such fkn hypocrisy.

Sam Russell

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Reminds me of all the talk about alcohol restrictions and the minimum unit pricing, and it's all for our own good etc.

Yet the members of the Dail spouting all this nanny state stuff have a bar in their workplace (anyone else have that?) at subsidised prices. Such fkn hypocrisy.

I think they also get the drink on tick, and some do not pay their bar bills.

I think hypocrisy is a very gentle word for this type of behaviour.

Spanish Eyes

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think they also get the drink on tick, and some do not pay their bar bills.

I think hypocrisy is a very gentle word for this type of behaviour.

Indeed.

My apologies for going off topic, I couldn't help it!

Back to infrastructure.... I will be amazed if anything happens with MN.

There will be a new Government by then. Should be a long term policy plan by an incumbent Government. Not just short term for the oul votes. They owe us, not us them.

Greenmachine

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's muted long before that. The green line was meant to run to the northside properly originally.

Always open to correction.

annfield1978

A number of consultants invited to tender for the scheme, tender to be submitted in december

LeinsterDub

annfield1978 wrote: »

A number of consultants invited to tender for the scheme, tender to be submitted in december

Link?

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Link?

annfield1978 has posted on a number of occasions in advance of tender with no links and has been 100% correct.

Spanish Eyes

Am prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, but am totally sceptical TBH.

See how quickly BRT has progressed, (lol) and no underground tunnelling involved either. On road, new fleet, new bus stops maybe, but such slow progress. It must be nearly two years since that project was announced.

But I suppose I will be told that it is now included in the Bus Network Review thinggy. Another delaying tactic.

I really hope I am wrong about MN and will be delighted if I am.

marno21

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Am prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, but am totally sceptical TBH.

See how quickly BRT has progressed, (lol) and no underground tunnelling involved either. On road, new fleet, new bus stops maybe, but such slow progress. It must be nearly two years since that project was announced.

But I suppose I will be told that it is now included in the Bus Network Review thinggy. Another delaying tactic.

I really hope I am wrong about MN and will be delighted if I am.

I am delighted this BRT bull**** is being delayed. Spending the "savings" from the Metro North redesign on a "stopgap measure" because the redesign is putting back Metro North is beyond Irish.

Shane Ross and his vision of everyone in Dublin on a bus needs to be ****ed out quick.

annfield1978

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Am prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, but am totally sceptical TBH.

See how quickly BRT has progressed, (lol) and no underground tunnelling involved either. On road, new fleet, new bus stops maybe, but such slow progress. It must be nearly two years since that project was announced.

But I suppose I will be told that it is now included in the Bus Network Review thinggy. Another delaying tactic.

I really hope I am wrong about MN and will be delighted if I am.

Bus Connects will sort that out, there will be a roll out of a number of bus routes (>10) to be brought through planning next year. they have all been going through a feasibility assessment with emerging preferred routes identified this year

LeinsterDub

marno21 wrote: »

annfield1978 has posted on a number of occasions in advance of tender with no links and has been 100% correct.

Fair enough. I wasn't aware of their posting history

Reuben1210

marno21 wrote: »

annfield1978 has posted on a number of occasions in advance of tender with no links and has been 100% correct.

That's correct, I noticed that too. annfield1978 is clerly someone in the know1

monument

FYI Bus Connects (which includes at least some of the BRT routes, even if not the Swords one) has been allocated fairly substantial funding in the capital plan.

LeinsterDub

MN discussion on Newstalk this morning.

http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5/39794/18th_October_2017_-_Newstalk_Breakfast_Part_1/

Some guy one arguing it's not a silver bullet , suggesting the money is vaguely spent in an "All of Dublin plan"

fxotoole

marno21 wrote: »

annfield1978 has posted on a number of occasions in advance of tender with no links and has been 100% correct.

I'd imagine it would have to be advertised on e-tenders or some such

Zebra3

LeinsterDub wrote: »

MN discussion on Newstalk this morning.

http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5/39794/18th_October_2017_-_Newstalk_Breakfast_Part_1/

Some guy one arguing it's not a silver bullet , suggesting the money is vaguely spent in an "All of Dublin plan"

Sounds logical. Two extra buses for each suburb instead. Dublin sorted.

donvito99

Pat emphatically told a texter that MN will not be compatible with Luas as it will be "heavy rail". Also read out a text from a taxi driver (of over 20 years I should add) who described Luas as a "scam", and that it should have been a bus corridor.

Dublin is doomed. But Manchester's not far lads.

wakka12

LeinsterDub wrote: »

MN discussion on Newstalk this morning.

http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5/39794/18th_October_2017_-_Newstalk_Breakfast_Part_1/

Some guy one arguing it's not a silver bullet , suggesting the money is vaguely spent in an "All of Dublin plan"

Dublin is the only place where there will be any worthwhile econmic return from the money put into transport infrastructure. Nearly half the population live in and around dublin. The only other large population centres are Cork and Limerick and galway. All areas of ireland are pretty well connected to dublin by road and rail already and any cities other than dublin are too small for public transport investments of their own

bk

wakka12 wrote: »

any cities other than dublin are too small for public transport investments of their own

While I agree with everything else you said, the other cities are big enough to get some public transport investment.

Of course I'm not talking Luas and Metros, but at least better bus services. Cork has seen a big investment in new buses and in particular is moving from single to double deckers which has greatly improved capacity, along with new bus stops and signs, RTPI screens, RTPI in the bus and Leap and an overhaul in routes and schedule, have all lead to a fantastic improvement in bus services in Cork.

Cork has also got some nice development of commuter train services.

In terms of Luas, they should at least be planning for it in future and reserving land along a likely route.

Also the M20 will greatly help to improve bus and coach services.

I'm sure similar is happening in Limerick, Galway, etc. I'm just familiar with Cork.

Reuben1210

bk wrote: »

While I agree with everything else you said, the other cities are big enough to get some public transport investment.

Of course I'm not talking Luas and Metros, but at least better bus services. Cork has seen a big investment in new buses and in particular is moving from single to double deckers which has greatly improved capacity, along with new bus stops and signs, RTPI screens, RTPI in the bus and Leap and an overhaul in routes and schedule, have all lead to a fantastic improvement in bus services in Cork.

Cork has also got some nice development of commuter train services.

In terms of Luas, they should at least be planning for it in future and reserving land along a likely route.

Also the M20 will greatly help to improve bus and coach services.

I'm sure similar is happening in Limerick, Galway, etc. I'm just familiar with Cork.

Need we forget the CLUAS and GLUAS plans during the boom years....

bk

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Need we forget the CLUAS and GLUAS plans during the boom years....

The plans were just ideas, they never went to planning or design stage or anything like that.

The route proposed for Cork was actually a pretty sensible one and while it shouldn't be built for the next decade or more, the alignment should be reserved.

ClovenHoof

ERSI came put against the Dublin Metro today.

So that's the final nail in the coffin as the politicians and senior civil servants now have the "bad cop" to justify scrapping it.

Ernest

monument wrote: »

FYI Bus Connects (which includes at least some of the BRT routes, even if not the Swords one) has been allocated fairly substantial funding in the capital plan.

The trouble with all these cheaper bus-based "pretend" schemes is that, instead of adding to transport infrastructure, they just take away existing road space and restrict it to buses. The same is true of street-based trams like Luas although this is far from cheap.

Unlike these, Metro North and DART Underground would add new transport resource.

bk

Ernest wrote: »

The trouble with all these cheaper bus-based "pretend" schemes is that, instead of adding to transport infrastructure, they just take away existing road space and restrict it to buses. The same is true of street-based trams like Luas although this is far from cheap.

Unlike these, Metro North and DART Underground would add new transport resource.

It transfers street space to more efficient and effective modes of transport.

A bus lane carries about 5 times as many people per hour as the road lane next to it.

A tram carries roughly 10 times as many people per hour as a general road lane.



BTW the above numbers are very conservative, what we see on the quays is each road lane only being able to carry about 500 people per hour and the above bus numbers are for single decker buses, we use double deckers that have greater capacity.

Even when we build Metro North and DART underground, we would still need to do this.

Take Amsterdam as a guide, it is the city most similar to Dublin (pretty much same population size and density). They have pretty much eliminated cars from the city center, giving the street space over to buses, trams, walking and cycling and now they are also adding Metros to it.

Ernest

bk wrote: »

It transfers street space to more efficient and effective modes of transport.

A bus lane carries about 5 times as many people per hour as the road lane next to it.

A tram carries roughly 10 times as many people per hour as a general road lane.



BTW the above numbers are very conservative, what we see on the quays is each road lane only being able to carry about 500 people per hour and the above bus numbers are for single decker buses, we use double deckers that have greater capacity.

Even when we build Metro North and DART underground, we would still need to do this.

Take Amsterdam as a guide, it is the city most similar to Dublin (pretty much same population size and density). They have pretty much eliminated cars from the city center, giving the street space over to buses, trams, walking and cycling and now they are also adding Metros to it.

This already well-circulated chart of traffic/people densities does not detract in any way from my point that "creating" bus corridors and on-street tram lines merely takes away existing street/road resource.

By the logic of this chart, everybody should just walk because that has the highest density outside Dart and trams but clearly that only works for young/fit people who live near their destinations.

Even this chart demonstrates that the most efficient mass transit mode is that provided by off-street rail - either heavy rail (eg Dart) or light rail (trams, like Luas, running off-street like such as is being mooted for Metro North and being implemented in Luas Cross-City, north of Broadstone.)

monument

Ernest wrote: »

This already well-circulated chart of traffic/people densities does not detract in any way from my point that "creating" bus corridors and on-street tram lines merely takes away existing street/road resource.

It’s a reallocation if space which creates extra capacity.

Ernest wrote: »

By the logic of this chart, everybody should just walk because that has the highest density outside Dart and trams but clearly that only works for young/fit people who live near their destinations.

Only by logic which sees that there must be only one solution to transport.

Most people seem to clearly understand that a mix is best, maybe you just want one form of transport.

Ernest wrote: »

Even this chart demonstrates that the most efficient mass transit mode is that provided by off-street rail - either heavy rail (eg Dart) or light rail (trams, like Luas, running off-street like such as is being mooted for Metro North and being implemented in Luas Cross-City, north of Broadstone.)

But not the most cost efficient and often not what transports the most people (ie London etc) — even cities with well-development rail networks make better use of surface transport than just cars.