Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

MJohnston

roadmaster wrote: »

Looking at the most recent map of the metro. Would they not have being better off running it to Connolly station instead of o O'Connell street.

Imo this would be less useful to the city as a whole. I'm not talking about the idea of an OCS 'hub' here, I'm talking about what is the best interconnection that a Metro system can make with the rest of Dublin's transport network?

Connolly is essentially a hub for intercity transport systems.

OCS, once Luas Cross City opens, will be the central connection point between Red and Green Lines, and a whole lot of bus routes. Which makes it more of a hub for intracity transport systems.

I think it would be of more advantage for Metro to connect with both Luas lines at this one point, and the bus routes. Meanwhile Tara is a very short walk away to provide DART integration, and remember that DART underground (unlikely as it is to happen anytime soon) would not go near Connolly.

Meanwhile, there are possibly physical concerns with making the route goto Connolly - I'm not entirely sure of the limits of tunnel curves and stuff like that, or whether the area around Connolly is perhaps difficult to tunnel for whatever reason.

CreativeSen

MJohnston wrote: »

IMeanwhile Tara is a very short walk away to provide DART integration, and remember that DART underground (unlikely as it is to happen anytime soon) would not go near Connolly.

I think this is a core part of the strategy, Optimized Metro North will only work with a greater degree of connectivity than exists. In the current mix it does not connect with Intercity or Dart.

You can make an argument that it does not need nor should not connect with Intercity but it needs to connect with Dart to ensure its viability, whatever that connection looks like (station at Connolly, Underground Dart at Stephens Green, Station at Tara or Pearse)?

Muahahaha

Colm McCarthy in yesterdays Indo calling Metro North a vanity project while he bemoans the economic cost of congestion. His solution? Built another ring road further out from the M50, which he labelled as having now become Dublins main street. You couldnt make it up.

roadmaster

I don't know why he keeps beating that drum. People going from Dundalk to Wexford are not causing the conjesion it's the short hops that's causing the problems. I worked on road projects most my life and as much I loved working on those projects the fact isroads will not solve dublins traffic and he needs stop his anti metro crap

LeinsterDub

Fianna Fáil has unanimously agreed at its Ard Fheis that the original Metro North plan which it proposed in Government instead of the slimmed down version of the project currently on the drawing board which it says is 'not fit for purpose'.
The motion proposed and passed unanimously at the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis, last week called on the Government to build 'the original Metro North' and said that 'New Metro North' was not fit for purpose.

AKA if we get into power we'll go back to the drawing board?

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/original-metro-north-plan-should-be-revived-says-ff-36252935.html

Stephen Strange

LeinsterDub wrote: »

AKA if we get into power we'll go back to the drawing board?

Well, not really. It's more if they get into power, they'll seek a railway order on the basis of all the plans that are already drawn up rather than wasting time drawing up new plans which are rubbish in comparison.

jd

Stephen Strange wrote:

Well, not really. It's more if they get into power, they'll seek a railway order on the basis of all the plans that are already drawn up rather than wasting time drawing up new plans which are rubbish in comparison.

The railway order for original metro north had not yet expired, the last time I checked.

Stephen Strange

jd wrote: »

The railway order for original metro north had not yet expired, the last time I checked.

Even better so, but how likely are ff to be in power before it does

LeinsterDub

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Well, not really. It's more if they get into power, they'll seek a railway order on the basis of all the plans that are already drawn up rather than wasting time drawing up new plans which are rubbish in comparison.

That railway order will most likely have expired by the time the government changes. I think there is less than a year left?

Stephen Strange

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That railway order will most likely have expired by the time the government changes. I think there is less than a year left?

Thats what I thought, but if they were really serious, it would be a lot faster (and probably cheaper) to use the old plans rather than draw up fresh ones.

LeinsterDub

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Thats what I thought, but if they were really serious, it would be a lot faster (and probably cheaper) to use the old plans rather than draw up fresh ones.

Cheaper (after you factor in construction inflation) ,faster (and based on the the rumours about platform length) better but sure they can't do something based on what the oppo decided.

LuckyLloyd

FF now have my first preference at the next election on that basis, as I'd consider Dublin's infrastructure the most important political issue.

LeinsterDub

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

FF now have my first preference at the next election on that basis, as I'd consider Dublin's infrastructure the most important political issue.

Be careful of snake oil salesmen. This vote is just political grand standing . They know the railway order will have expired before they get into power so will have to follow NMN plans or if they want they can pull a FG and say it's not fit for purpose and long finger it again.

MJohnston

Let's not forget that FF already have enough power through the confidence and supply arrangement to lean on the government about this, if they really wanted to. It's not like Metro North is something that FG is foundationally opposed to either - it's a project that their leader and their Minister for Finance are both publicly very enthusiastic about - so they don't have a very great political distance to travel to make it happen more rapidly.

Considering all this, I think it's very clear what FF are doing. And it's telling that neither party is talking about the still valid railway order for "Old" Metro North.

monument

MJohnston wrote: »

Let's not forget that FF already have enough power through the confidence and supply arrangement to lean on the government about this, if they really wanted to. It's not like Metro North is something that FG is foundationally opposed to either - it's a project that their leader and their Minister for Finance are both publicly very enthusiastic about - so they don't have a very great political distance to travel to make it happen more rapidly.

Considering all this, I think it's very clear what FF are doing. And it's telling that neither party is talking about the still valid railway order for "Old" Metro North.

My reading of it is that FF are very much so talking about the still valid railway order.

The FF party voting for something doesn’t mean their leader or top TDs want to push it too much. And the party voting for it last week doesn’t affect the already agreed confidence and supply arrangement.

marno21

Metro North is a FF project

New Metro North is a FG project

This is something else to consider

MJohnston

monument wrote: »

My reading of it is that FF are very much so talking about the still valid railway order.

The FF party voting for something doesn’t mean their leader or top TDs want to push it too much. And the party voting for it last week doesn’t affect the already agreed confidence and supply arrangement.

Sorry, yes you're right on the first point. But the second part of your post is what I mean - if the FF leadership wanted this to happen, they have the means at their disposal to do it now (while that railway order is still active) rather than having to wait until (and if) they're in power. It would seem that either those leaders don't want it to happen at all, or they don't want it to happen right now while they can't claim credit for it.

It'd be nice if for once Irish politics could actually work across the aisle (so to speak) on this one, and just suck it up and share the damn credit.

road_high

Muahahaha wrote: »

Colm McCarthy in yesterdays Indo calling Metro North a vanity project while he bemoans the economic cost of congestion. His solution? Built another ring road further out from the M50, which he labelled as having now become Dublins main street. You couldnt make it up.

Really can't stand this moaning idiot. All he ever does is point out problems with public spending, offers no alternatives and when he does they usually involve crap like this. The man has zero vision.

Markcheese

The extra ring road thing has been done before (and not just in this country)
, it'll just jam up and move urban sprawl further out..(as well as being stupidly expensive)
Focusing on public transport is a long term ongoing project.. It wouldn't be just a metro line, or an extra luas line but it'll help Dublin work better..

LXFlyer

The problem is that McCarthy has the ear of the Dept of Finance and consequently his anti-rail views get listened to.

Hence we end up in this constant inertia.

loyatemu

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

FF now have my first preference at the next election on that basis, as I'd consider Dublin's infrastructure the most important political issue.

seriously? The reason the Metro wasn't built in the first place was because FF bankrupted the country.

Idbatterim

Well, not really. It's more if they get into power, they'll seek a railway order on the basis of all the plans that are already drawn up rather than wasting time drawing up new plans which are rubbish in comparison.

ive posted this here before but Ill do it again. look at the cost savings measures, pretty much all total or mostly bull****. 1. less rolling stock - no f*cking rolling stock had been ordered for MN, as far as I was aware :rolleyes: shorter platforms lenghts, to save 3% of the total budget for a 33% reduction in capacity :rolleyes: dropping one station on OCS and more surface running in ballymun, which was rejected for very good reason the first time around and may be rejected again :rolleyes:

seriously? The reason the Metro wasn't built in the first place was because FF bankrupted the country.

certainly a large part of it, then FG decided other areas like increasing world class welfare further, were more worthy than MN...

loyatemu

Idbatterim wrote: »

certainly a large part of it, then FG decided other areas like increasing world class welfare further, were more worthy than MN...

FF were increasing welfare and cutting taxes like there was no tomorrow (which thanks to them, there wasn't). I'm no FG supporter but FF are a bunch of conmen with no interest beyond the success of FF itself, and lining their own pockets.

Idbatterim

FF were increasing welfare and cutting taxes like there was no tomorrow (which thanks to them, there wasn't). I'm no FG supporter but FF are a bunch of conmen with no interest beyond the success of FF itself, and lining their own pockets.

ff are also a joke, but as a dubliner, if its metro north or some several euro bribe a week in my back pocket, I know which Id take and its not the inconsequential few euro...

Chivito550

LXFlyer wrote: »

The problem is that McCarthy has the ear of the Dept of Finance and consequently his anti-rail views get listened to.

Hence we end up in this constant inertia.

I know nothing about this punter, so can you (or anyone else) explain what exactly is in it for him by being so opposed to rail? Does he have business interests in the motor industry?

Idbatterim

honestly the guy, much like the media here, is about 20-30 years behind the rest of europe!

ClovenHoof

Originally Posted by Muahahaha
Colm McCarthy in yesterdays Indo calling Metro North a vanity project while he bemoans the economic cost of congestion. His solution? Built another ring road further out from the M50, which he labelled as having now become Dublins main street. You couldnt make it up.

McCarthy is like a leftover from the 1950s.

His pontification on transport in 2017, would be akin to a Health Expert telling us that fMRI scanners are vanity machines and they should just get the doctors new stetscopes and lolly sticks to check for early cancer detection.

I ****ing hate the ****.

dubhthach

I recall coming across a copy of either Sunday Independent or Irish Independent from circa 1979 (found it on google) where the opinion writer was of opinion that the proposed DART was a 'vanity project' and that it would be more economical for the state to pay the current rail users on the line to drive into the city!!!

It's a common theme with media coverage in this country nobody thinks in terms of 30-40 years let alone 10!

ClovenHoof

dubhthach wrote: »

I recall coming across a copy of either Sunday Independent or Irish Independent from circa 1979 (found it on google) where the opinion writer was of opinion that the proposed DART was a 'vanity project' and that it would be more economical for the state to pay the current rail users on the line to drive into the city!!!

It's a common theme with media coverage in this country nobody thinks in terms of 30-40 years let alone 10!

The other one is: On the day the service starts, every single TV and radio reporter randomly selecting a person and asking them in a rather dismissive manner. "but will you actually use it!"

ClovenHoof

Another one I recall is TV3 going up to Swords when the metro was announced and interviewing one person - a skanger Vicky Pollard type - going 'it'll be great for the kids as there is nothing for them to do around here'.

I actually think Irish journalists believe a metro is like a fairground ride or roller coaster.