Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

D14Rugby

Sam Russell wrote: »

Serious answer.

The Green line south of Charlemont is already set for Metro, with a few level crossings to sort.

It would make sense to divert the trams at Charlemont somewhere else.

Ah makes sense. Only problem could be where it'd surface. Id guess at SSG but theres no real ideal place considering you've Harcourt street after that then the raised section

MJohnston

D14Rugby wrote: »

Serious question. If you're extending the metro south of SSG why follow the green line? The green line south of SSG is about as out of the way way as you can get and works pretty well so why change it so drastically, and expensively, when you could have the metro north continue down that corridor on the south side that is pretty much public transport free. The tunneling would be expensive but surely it makes more sense to tunnel out that way and keep the roads relatively undisturbed than to rip up the green line, put down metro lines and then either disturb roads or leave that whole area unserved.

As pointed out, that part of the Green Line is largely Metro ready, so it wouldn’t be expensive at all really (relatively speaking). Creating a new route south-west for the then-reduced Green Line would be something I think most of us would like to see.

MJohnston

D14Rugby wrote: »

Ah makes sense. Only problem could be where it'd surface. Id guess at SSG but theres no real ideal place considering you've Harcourt street after that then the raised section

It’ll surface somewhere south of Charlemont, north of Ranelagh. This has been discussed a fair few times, including just this week, on either this or the Metro North thread.

Chivito550

MJohnston wrote: »

As pointed out, that part of the Green Line is largely Metro ready, so it wouldn’t be expensive at all really (relatively speaking). Creating a new route south-west for the then-reduced Green Line would be something I think most of us would like to see.

What route would you like to see the Green line take after Harcourt?

MJohnston

Chivito550 wrote: »

What route would you like to see the Green line take after Harcourt?

No idea of an exact alignment, but I think a vague route south-west towards Knocklyon is fairly obviously needed:

LXFlyer

LUAS is not a realistic option in south central Dublin and out towards south west Dublin, due to the lack of available roadspace to allow it move without hinderance.

That’s why the Rathfarnham LUAS Line was dropped - no possibility of decent speeds/journey times due to lack of segregation.

Realistically that’s the area where the metro should be going - journey times are getting longer and longer and no amount of platitudes about potentially CPOing front gardens to provide better QBCs is going to solve that.

Idbatterim

LXFlyer wrote: »

LUAS is not a realistic option in south central Dublin and out towards south west Dublin, due to the lack of available roadspace to allow it move without hinderance.

That’s why the Rathfarnham LUAS Line was dropped - no possibility of decent speeds/journey times due to lack of segregation.

Realistically that’s the area where the metro should be going - journey times are getting longer and longer and no amount of platitudes about potentially CPOing front gardens to provide better QBCs is going to solve that.

totally agreed that on street isnt an option for here, what would cost be for cpo ing gardens if needs be, getting rid of on street parking etc, to deliver a reasonable journey time v underground I wonder?

sdanseo

Put a TBM in the ground at Ballymun and another one at Ballyboden. Á la Chunnel, have them meet up in a couple of years under SSG. Open 8 or 9 shafts, excavate stations.
You might need a third to go under the airport if closing each runway for the time taken to do cut-and-cover was infeasible.

I mapped a little route on Google Earth with stations at Ballymun, Glasnevin, Botanic, Mater, O'Connel St, SSG, Portobello, Terenure, Rathfarnham, Marlay Pk and Ballyboden. 15.79km at 10m a day, that's 2.16 years with two machines. Less if more.

The DPT was built for €750m for 5.6km twim bore or 11.2km total. This project would have around 18km of total tunnel and only needs a single bore. Well under €2bn for the whole lot in 2004 money. Extrapolate to include inflation.

A year for planning and EIS in an expedited process. Three years to build. Little or no facilities diversion. Two park and rides with multi-storey car parks. Metro North and South by end 2021.

jamo2oo9

sdanseo wrote: »

Put a TBM in the ground at Ballymun and another one at Ballyboden. Á la Chunnel, have them meet up in a couple of years under SSG. Open 8 or 9 shafts, excavate stations.
You might need a third to go under the airport if closing each runway for the time taken to do cut-and-cover was infeasible.

I mapped a little route on Google Earth with stations at Ballymun, Glasnevin, Botanic, Mater, O'Connel St, SSG, Portobello, Terenure, Rathfarnham, Marlay Pk and Ballyboden. 15.79km at 10m a day, that's 2.16 years with two machines. Less if more.

The DPT was built for €750m for 5.6km twim bore or 11.2km total. This project would have around 18km of total tunnel and only needs a single bore. Well under €2bn for the whole lot in 2004 money. Extrapolate to include inflation.

A year for planning and EIS in an expedited process. Three years to build. Little or no facilities diversion. Two park and rides with multi-storey car parks. Metro North and South by end 2021.

The plan was the tunnel would go from Ballymun to Swords via Northwood and Dardistown so it wouldn't need to go anywhere near the runways.

cormac616

Currently sitting at Whitehall on the 16 from the airport. It has taken an hour to get here. The flight from London only took an hour! So sick of the transport in this kip of a city.

The time to build this thing is now! I've had enough. I'm moving to London.

loyatemu

cormac616 wrote: »

Currently sitting at Whitehall on the 16 from the airport. It has taken an hour to get here. The flight from London only took an hour! So sick of the transport in this kip of a city.

The time to build this thing is now! I've had enough. I'm moving to London.

whatever about the Metro, there are much faster bus options available than the 16.

cormac616

loyatemu wrote: »

whatever about the Metro, there are much faster bus options available than the 16.

Not in the financial situation to pay 7 euro for the 747 after me holidays!

Actually did they ever talk about the pricing structure for metro North?
Will I still end up getting the bus after it's built because it's gonna cost loads like in London with the Stansted express?

Heartbreak Hank

Are details of New Metro North to be released in 2017?

MJohnston

To answer both the previous questions:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lawred2

cormac616 wrote: »

Not in the financial situation to pay 7 euro for the 747 after me holidays!

Actually did they ever talk about the pricing structure for metro North?
Will I still end up getting the bus after it's built because it's gonna cost loads like in London with the Stansted express?

seriously?

cgcsb

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

Are details of New Metro North to be released in 2017?

I'd expect it to be a case of another underdesign like what was done with luas, followed by decades of expensive retrofitting.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd expect it to be a case of another underdesign like what was done with luas, followed by decades of expensive retrofitting.

In fairness, that wasn't the question asked

cgcsb

No but just incase there was any question as to what to expect.

bk

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd expect it to be a case of another underdesign like what was done with luas, followed by decades of expensive retrofitting.

In fairness, with the exception of Luas BXD, Luas wasn't underdesigned and hasn't been expensive to retrofit.

Quiet the opposite, it is quiet a good example of planning ahead and making it easy to upgrade in future for reasonable costs.

- Trams that were easily extended.
- Plenty of space left for longer platforms.
- And the Green line is designed to a spec for easy upgrade to Metro.

Pretty nice really. Only not building BXD on day one was the only really major mistake and that was due to the normal political interference.

cgcsb

The luas has no spare peak hour capacity a little over a decade after opening and after 2 tranches of tram and platform lengthening. There's also been a global financial crisis in the meantime. How is that forward planning? Trams are too full to get on by the time they get to zone 3 in the morning rush. We're only 13 years into it, civil projects have design lives of 30-35 years.

Yes the retro-fits thus far have been cheap. One thing's for sure retrofitting 90m platforms in metro tunnels will not be cheap.

Idbatterim

lets just hope the new line is mobbed from the get go and it creates media headlines for being undercapacity from day one. Might be the only thing which stops these morons going with 60m! :rolleyes::mad:

Van.Bosch

cormac616 wrote: »

Not in the financial situation to pay 7 euro for the 747 after me holidays!

I’m not questioning that but flying from city ain’t exactly cheap.

Dyr

Looks like the NTA are trying to put the kibosh on a Lidl being built in Ballymun, presumably to try keep the whole site greenfield for Metro North. Despite being made aware at every stage of the process what was being planned

Sorry lads you have to stick or twist, can't just sit there trying to hold all the cards forever.

MJohnston

Bambi wrote: »

Looks like the NTA are trying to put the kibosh on a Lidl being built in Ballymun, presumably to try keep the whole site greenfield for Metro North. Despite being made aware at every stage of the process what was being planned

Sorry lads you have to stick or twist, can't just sit there trying to hold all the cards forever.

You cannot blame the NTA for the delay in MN being built.

jamo2oo9

Bambi wrote: »

Looks like the NTA are trying to put the kibosh on a Lidl being built in Ballymun, presumably to try keep the whole site greenfield for Metro North. Despite being made aware at every stage of the process what was being planned

Sorry lads you have to stick or twist, can't just sit there trying to hold all the cards forever.

Got a source for that?

Dyr

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Got a source for that?

Local Councillors

Ballymun Sinn F Councillor and Local Resident Noeleen Reilly have expressed shock that the NTA would seek to stop the development of retail facilities in the area.
Speaking from Ballymun today she said,
“It is no secret that Ballymun has a lack of retail facilities in the area. The Ballymun regeneration did not deliver what was promised to residents and that was the biggest failure of the regeneration.
Recently it looked like we were turning the tide on that with the acquisition of land by Lidl and the lodging of planning permission.
This has been very much welcomed by the community and the due date for a decision was today.
Now to discover that the NTA has put in an objection to this development is very disappointing.
They have dangled the Metro North at our community for decades and now they want to stall any development in the area for the next ten years.
This is not acceptable and is very worrying for this project and future development along the Metro line.

MJohnston

They have dangled the Metro North at our community for decades and now they want to stall any development in the area for the next ten years.

Bizarre stuff from politicians - the FF and FG governments are the ones responsible for any "dangling" of Metro North, not the NTA.

marno21

This is happening in a number of places now, its happened with DART Underground, the North Ring Road in Cork etc. So much money being spent on endless redesigns requiring freezing of land for development.

Dyr

MJohnston wrote: »

Bizarre stuff from politicians - the FF and FG governments are the ones responsible for any "dangling" of Metro North, not the NTA.

Just the usual guff but the NTA have no business trying to stop developments just on spec.

MJohnston

Bambi wrote: »

Just the usual guff but the NTA have no business trying to stop developments just on spec.

I'd argue that's exactly their business. It's the government's business to give the funding so they can actually build the plans that they get the NTA to put together.