Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

NuMarvel

Muahahaha wrote: »

That idea of placing a station on SSG east doesnt sound like a good plan to me. The top of Grafton St has heavier footfall and it makes more sense to place it there IMO. Even if it means digging up the park. We are only going to do this once so getting it right is imperative. As is having 90m platforms from day one.

Given the way the article talks about building the station "using" SSG East, instead of building a station at SSG East, I wonder if it means that the road will be used as an entry/exit for underground construction works, instead of the park?

NuMarvel

MJohnston wrote: »

South where? Into the Wicklow mountains?

Cork has been angling for a LUAS for a while now...

roadmaster

If the Green line is upgraded to metro how would that effect the current operator. Is there clauses in the contract to allow this happen or by the time the work is complete would the existing contact be out to re tender?

Actually I just seen current contract is up in 2019 so I presume upgrade will be covered in the new one

strassenwo!f

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think you mean South West.

Yes, of course I do. My mistake. Thanks.

Idbatterim

when the line is connected from bray all the way north to wherever it terminates and is metro. I am assuming the line will be carrying in the multiple tens of millions of passengers per year?

fionnsci

I have a headache thinking about how to draw an integrated map that includes both directions of luas cross city, red line and the metro around the O'Connell St area. Neverthheless, it'd be great to see them lump this in as one project. Easier than convincing the "Dublin gets everything" crowd again down the line.

Do we know is the intention for it to be metro standard all the way to the end of the line? Or just to Sandyford.

wakka12

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is upgrading the green line to metro? Is the luas being dismantled and a metro type rail being placed on the exact same route? Or is it an underground running beneath the luas green line?

Sam Russell

wakka12 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is upgrading the green line to metro? Is the luas being dismantled and a metro type rail being placed on the exact same route? Or is it an underground running beneath the luas green line?

The green line is already Metro standard. Same spacing and same OH wires and volts. All that is needed is to move the trams to the Red line or Broombridge.

bk

wakka12 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is upgrading the green line to metro? Is the luas being dismantled and a metro type rail being placed on the exact same route? Or is it an underground running beneath the luas green line?

It is just running, longer, wider trains on the same line at a higher frequency, with some of the level crossings removed. The Green line was originally designed with this idea in mind, so it would probably allow you to at least double the capacity of the line for a low cost.

The Metro is likely to use mostly the same tracks and other technology as the Luas, just bigger trains and faster.

donvito99

You cannot equate a 1.5km connection to the green line with a 7-8km Metro 'South West'.

A green line connection could lay a lot of the ground work for a future Harolds cross - templeogue alignment, however.

strassenwo!f

bk wrote: »

And you would be dead wrong, continuing the Metro south along the green is an absolute no brainer.

I am reminded here of comments by the head of the RPA - that's the Rail Procurement Agency, for readers of the board who don't remember that now defunct organisation - when he hosted a meeting some years ago to trumpet the success of the LUAS. He said that the visitors to the conference were trying to understand how the LUAS was able to achieve more passengers per kilometre than their systems at home.

The answer, of course, was that their cities already had denser networks, so their lines were effectively competing against each other. Dresden would be a fine example of this, but there are many others.

In Dublin, a metro line to the southwest would relieve pressure from both the red and green lines, because it would reduce the catchment area of both.

The obvious, and cheapest, thing is to continue the Swords metro to Cherrywood, as bk says, but I think it would be a mistake. Firstly, it would reinforce the idea of Dublin being a city where everything happens in the east, secondly because it doesn't provide proper public transport to new areas of the city, and thirdly because it doesn't utilise the TBM to its potential: if it is only used to make a connection to the green line that's quite a short route, whereas if it's used to enable a connection to Walkinstown or Terenure/Rathfarnham that's quite long.

bk wrote: »

For a relatively very small upgrade cost, it opens up the ability to build tens of thousands of new apartments in south Dublin very close to the line.

There are dozens of locations along a southwest route, to Walkinstown or to Terenure/Rathfarnham, which could be developed. And doubtless more would become available if a metro line were to be built in that vicinity.

bk wrote: »

The housing crisis being a national issue, makes this a very easy sell and overall makes the entire Metro project a politically much easier sell.

I am aware that there is a housing crisis in ireland, but that is a separate issue, and provision of proper public transport to areas of the city where there is already a very high density of potential users should not be ignored.

bk wrote: »

Going South West has two major issues with it:

1) It will cost at least 10 times more then just upgrading the Green line due to far more tunnelling and underground stations.

2) The areas you mention are pretty mature areas, with little free space for new apartments to be built.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cost. If Dublin is going to provide decent public transport to Walkinstown, Terenure, Rathfarnham, Rathgar, Rathmines, etc, it has to be done at some stage, and I think the time to do it is while the TBM is in the ground, ready to continue on doing what it does.

As for those areas being 'pretty mature areas', isn't that also the case for the areas along the green line? The areas you're talking about for development are miles away from the city.

bk

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I am aware that there is a housing crisis in ireland, but that is a separate issue, and provision of proper public transport to areas of the city where there is already a very high density of potential users should not be ignored.

And this is why you are again very much wrong.

The housing crisis in Ireland is fundamentally a public transport problem. More and more people want to move to Dublin, because that is where the jobs are.

There is actually plenty of space in Dublin for thousands of new apartments. What their isn't is the transport to support them. Our roads and buses and trams are already full to the brink every morning. We simply can't build tens of thousands of apartments without also building the transport infrastructure to support them.

BonnieSituation

bk wrote: »

And this is why you are again very much wrong.

The housing crisis in Ireland is fundamentally a public transport problem. More and more people want to move to Dublin, because that is where the jobs are.

There is actually plenty of space in Dublin for thousands of new apartments. What their isn't is the transport to support them. Our roads and buses and trams are already full to the brink every morning. We simply can't build tens of thousands of apartments without also building the transport infrastructure to support them.

This guy^^^^

On the money. I've made the same point so so so so so many times!

Zebra3

Can we not do what they’ve done in Copenhagen with their M1 and M2 lines (ie have the lines share the city but split separatly in the suburbs)?

MJohnston

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can we not do what they’ve done in Copenhagen with their M1 and M2 lines (ie have the lines share the city but split separatly in the suburbs)?

Isn't this what nearly every subway/Metro system in the world does? I can't think of any network that doesn't have line overlaps.

There's nothing stopping us from doing it either, we just need to ensure enough capacity in the city centre sections to be able to expand easily in the future. Though the beauty of underground networks is you can just drill another tunnel to expand.

I suppose if they were overplanning for the future they could throw a few 'stump' branches into the tunnel section at points where they might build a spur sometime in the future, but it isn't really necessary.

donvito99

@Strassenwolf

Conversion of the green line to Metro would - at a minimum - double its capacity.

Would that not achieve principally the same affect as an entirely new alignment to the south west (near doubling the scale of a MN project) as it relieves capacity on other modes of public transport - essentially the corollary of your proposal?

Geographical coverage is one thing, but increasing the public transport capacity of the existing network would likely have a similar effect for the city as a whole for less money.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Is this set in stone or still up in the air?

MJohnston

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is this set in stone or still up in the air?

I think as an infrastructure project in Ireland, it will have to be literally set in stone before it's set in stone. However, it couldn't be described as "up in the air" either, it's in the paperwork/planning stage at the minute, and will be until 2021 when construction is planned to begin.

So far this year we've had tendering processes for architects, engineering design, and 'stakeholder management' (ie. keeping vested interests engaged and happy).

Next year it is expected that we'll see the public consultation of whatever new plans the aforementioned contractors have produced. Then a new railway order is expected at the end of next year.

Ultimately, until this project proceeds to the construction phase, it is always a possibility that it would be cancelled in the event of another recession or drastic change in government (FF might cancel it because they want to put their stamp on it but I don't know if that's likely). I think it's unlikely it will be delayed or cancelled without something of that scale happening though.

The true uncertainty for most people now is whether the current government might actually attempt to accelerate the timeline of the project, because a lot of us are hoping that is possible.

fionnsci

The new metro north stops look like being a lot further apart than the Luas green line stops. Do we think we'll see the number of green line stops reduced if it's converted to Metro? It would seem likely to me.

MJohnston

fionnsci wrote: »

The new metro north stops look like being a lot further apart than the Luas green line stops. Do we think we'll see the number of green line stops reduced if it's converted to Metro? It would seem likely to me.

I can't see how they don't...but also I can't see that being a very popular decision from locals. They might prefer the Luas in that case!

Idbatterim

MJohnston wrote: »

I can't see how they don't...but also I can't see that being a very popular decision from locals. They might prefer the Luas in that case!

Not a chance they will decommission stops!

strassenwo!f

So far, there is only one corridor in Dublin where it has been positively identified that there is no suitable route for a LUAS. Thus, rail transport along that corridor must be underground. And that's the corridor which broadly goes to the southwest of the city.

When your TBM is in the ground at St. Stephen's Green that would seem, to me, to be the obvious time to then use it further to deliver underground rail transport to dense areas of the city which cannot be served by trams.

bk

strassenwo!f wrote: »

So far, there is only one corridor in Dublin where it has been positively identified that there is no suitable route for a LUAS. Thus, rail transport along that corridor must be underground. And that's the corridor which broadly goes to the southwest of the city.

Certainly not the only one! the Lucan corridor is another one not suitable for Luas and their is plenty more!

No one is saying that the South West of the city shouldn't some day be served by Metro. I'm sure it will by a spur from SSG. Just that it currently isn't a priority over getting Metro North or Metro South done or arguably Dart Underground first.

I suspect it will come in a second phase of lines, along with Lucan, etc.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep this discussion to Metro North. There are other threads for discussing other PT options, and other Metro possibilities.

marno21

Tender for a concept architect for New Metro North awarded

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=110757&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Idbatterim

marno21 wrote: »

Tender for a concept architect for New Metro North awarded

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=110757&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

It pains me to say it say it, but I nearly agree with Grandeeod, another false dawn. The place is a banana republic. Ill happily eat humble pie IF they ever get a tbm in the ground! No doubt we could get the 13,000,000,000 from apple, I am not saying, we should or that we will, its just a hypothetical! I bet you they still wouldnt build the scheme that has planning permission!

or maybe they would, spend 6.5 billion on welfare increases and 6 odd billion split between metros for dublin, cork and tralee! LOL!

Sierra Oscar

Some comments from the Taoiseach on Metro North today following Luas Cross City launch.

Luas Cross City officially launched today and it will 'improve our quality of life' - Leo Varadkar

"Imagine what we can do now that our economy is strong; Metro and the M20 between Limerick and Cork are next on the transport agenda.

Consonata

marno21 wrote: »

Tender for a concept architect for New Metro North awarded

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=110757&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Will we have a Tender for a concept architect for New New Metro North in 2026 when there are still no TBMs in the ground I wonder.

D Trent

marno21 wrote: »

Tender for a concept architect for New Metro North awarded

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=110757&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

There's a mistake there

Response deadline 31-7-2017.
Or have I got that wrong ???

MJohnston

D Trent wrote: »

There's a mistake there

Response deadline 31-7-2017.
Or have I got that wrong ???

That was the deadline for applications for tender, then they considered them and awarded the tender this week