Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Sam Russell

tom1ie wrote: »

I posted a question about this before on boards, but I never got an answer, do dB busses have transponders fitted to give them priority at traffic lights?
I realize this creates its own problems in cc but in suburbia it would work well.
Surely it wouldn’t cost too much to get this infrastructure retrofitted to busses and traffic lights?

Buses have GPS fitted and they also are connected to the internet. The position of a particular bus is known, so it is the traffic system that needs the priority enabled software.

no.8

bk wrote: »

Well just 5 years ago they were proposing just 60m trains in order to save costs!

So most of us are hoping we are back to the original 90m.

90m is pretty standard for most big Metros, for instance I think most trains in Barcelona are 86m.

London Underground ranges from 66m up to 133m, but the average is around 110m, but then we have nothing like the population of London. 90m is probably a good length for us.

Yes, DART's are much longer, but Metro makes up with it with high frequency. A 90m Metro every 2 minutes is going to give you far more capacity then a 180m DART every 20 minutes or even 10 minutes. Plus people tend to prefer such high frequency, less time waiting at the station normally.

Cheers, thanks for the background info. (did not know that).
OK, with a high frequency 90m max. platforms should be reasonable for a city Dublin's size / density, including periods of high demand (matches, concerts, Rugby World cup 2043 etc. ).

Shurimgreat

cgcsb wrote: »

what does the above even mean?

It means underground stations have multiple lines running in different directions as well as at varying underground levels.

A Green LUAS stopping in Sandyford won't be like that if customers are transitioning to the Metro.

Also, the Metro can really only be as frequent as the LUAS that's feeding into it. So I'm not convinced the Metro will be more frequent.

fionnsci

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Also, the Metro can really only be as frequent as the LUAS that's feeding into it. So I'm not convinced the Metro will be more frequent.

The metro frequency shouldn't be affected by the frequency of a separate luas line.

Sam Russell

Shurimgreat wrote: »

It means underground stations have multiple lines running in different directions as well as at varying underground levels.

A Green LUAS stopping in Sandyford won't be like that if customers are transitioning to the Metro.

Also, the Metro can really only be as frequent as the LUAS that's feeding into it. So I'm not convinced the Metro will be more frequent.

The Metro can be as frequent as it likes, and so can the Luas. If you arrive on a Luas, you get the next Metro, and if you arrive on the Metro, you get the next Luas. They are different services on segregated lines, but use the same structure. Platform 1 and 4 are Metro, and 2 and 3 are Luas - just cross the platforms to change.

MJohnston

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Also, the Metro can really only be as frequent as the LUAS that's feeding into it.

That's a remarkable statement supported by precisely no evidence or practical thinking.

There's no opinion about this at all: the proposed Metro can easily be more frequent than any service which is feeding into it.

cgcsb

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Also, the Metro can really only be as frequent as the LUAS that's feeding into it. So I'm not convinced the Metro will be more frequent.

Incorrect. There is nothing stopping luas green line operating Bray-Sandyford every 4 minutes and metro operating Sandyford-Swords every 2 minutes.

tom1ie

Just out of interest is there a p+r at Sandyford and if so what’s its capacity?
Is there room to increase capacity by expanding or building a multi storey?
If not is there any room to build one?
It’d be nice to have a large p+r at swords (which I’m banging on about on this thread non stop!) and a decent size p+r at Sandyford so the metro can be fed from both ends of the line. Not sure how good access would be for cars to a Sandyford p+r compared to an off ramp off the m1 in swords direction for example.

salmocab

tom1ie wrote: »

Just out of interest is there a p+r at Sandyford and if so what’s its capacity?
Is there room to increase capacity by expanding or building a multi storey?
If not is there any room to build one?
It’d be nice to have a large p+r at swords (which I’m banging on about on this thread non stop!) and a decent size p+r at Sandyford so the metro can be fed from both ends of the line. Not sure how good access would be for cars to a Sandyford p+r compared to an off ramp off the m1 in swords direction for example.

Sandyford has a P&R but its not massive, access wouldnt be great as sandyford traffic is already heavy it would be better to build a bigger one further out.

tom1ie

salmocab wrote: »

Sandyford has a P&R but its not massive, access wouldnt be great as sandyford traffic is already heavy it would be better to build a bigger one further out.

It’d have to be further in, as its Luas from Sandyford back to cherrywood direction which is already at capacity.
But building further in would be a big problem also as the large road access I imagine would be poor and would there be room?

salmocab

tom1ie wrote: »

It’d have to be further in, as its Luas from Sandyford back to cherrywood direction which is already at capacity.
But building further in would be a big problem also as the large road access I imagine would be poor and would there be room?

further in is some of the most expensive land in the country with no motorway access thats not a runner, further out they will be able to run the trams at whatever frequency they want to suit capacitys

tom1ie

salmocab wrote: »

further in is some of the most expensive land in the country with no motorway access thats not a runner, further out they will be able to run the trams at whatever frequency they want to suit capacitys

But they’re already at capacity. That’s the problem. It’ll get worse when cherrywood is built also.

salmocab

tom1ie wrote: »

But they’re already at capacity. That’s the problem. It’ll get worse when cherrywood is built also.

Not every tram currently runs past sandyford so they can easily increase the capacity. trams will only run from sandyford outwards so they can just run more frequently.

tom1ie

salmocab wrote: »

Not every tram currently runs past sandyford so they can easily increase the capacity. trams will only run from sandyford outwards so they can just run more frequently.

Ah I see. So what frequency are they at now? What could it be ramped up to, bearing in mind all the at grade interactions on that part of the line.
Where would be a good spot for a large p+r? Cherrywood? Good m50/m11 access.

salmocab

tom1ie wrote: »

Ah I see. So what frequency are they at now? What could it be ramped up to, bearing in mind all the at grade interactions on that part of the line.
Where would be a good spot for a large p+r? Cherrywood? Good m50/m11 access.

not sure of the current frequency think its only every second or third tram that goes that far but someone else will know better, Cherrywood would make sense but with the development to go there its probably not be possible beside the current stops.

tom1ie

Just seen there is a p+r at carrickmines Luas stop. It has a capacity of 352 spaces and is 6 stops further on, south, than Sandyford.
Great access from the m50 at the ballyogan road exit with the park shopping Centre.
Plenty of green space around it to expand.
Never even knew about it tbh.

Stephen Strange

Pretty sure there is one at Stillorgan as well, not sure of the size.

Green Party: Ossian Smyth

TII and NTA are meeting with elected representatives tomorrow evening to launch the 'MetroLink' project and answer any questions and outline the consultation process.

Do you have any questions you want me to ask on your behalf?

I saw the details that were leaked in the Irish Times. Other than that, I understand that:

• There will be 25 stations on a 26km route
• Underground platform length is to be 60m but 'extendible to 90m in future'
• Full grade separation to Sandyford.
• €20m Mater station box will not be used

loyatemu

Green Party: Ossian Smyth wrote: »

TII and NTA are meeting with elected representatives tomorrow evening to launch the 'MetroLink' project and answer any questions and outline the consultation process.

Do you have any questions you want me to ask on your behalf?

I saw the details that were leaked in the Irish Times. Other than that, I understand that:

• There will be 25 stations on a 26km route
• Underground platform length is to be 60m but 'extendible to 90m in future'
• Full grade separation to Sandyford.
• €20m Mater station box will not be used

Confirm what will happen with the non-upgraded sections of the Green Line - will passengers from south of Sandyford have to transfer, and what provisions will be made in Sandyford for this (i.e. a full tram arrives from Brides Glen, and 90% of the passengers are transferring onto Metro).

MJohnston

Green Party: Ossian Smyth wrote: »

TII and NTA are meeting with elected representatives tomorrow evening to launch the 'MetroLink' project and answer any questions and outline the consultation process.

Do you have any questions you want me to ask on your behalf?

I saw the details that were leaked in the Irish Times. Other than that, I understand that:

• There will be 25 stations on a 26km route
• Underground platform length is to be 60m but 'extendible to 90m in future'
• Full grade separation to Sandyford.
• €20m Mater station box will not be used

• Is the Whitworth station planned as an interchange with Irish Rail or not? If so, are CIE actually engaged with this idea?
• If platform length is 60m - will further excavation be needed to increase to 90m, or will that be there from the start?
• Where will the current section of Green Line at Charlemont end?
• How many park and ride facilities are incorporated into this plan?

And thanks for asking us!

jd

If the "Whitworth" stop is an interchange station, will it be for both heavy rail lines?

Also Griffith Ave may be used post Bus Connects as an artery for a high frequency orbital bus route - maybe it makes more sense to have a station there rather than Griffith Park?

Is the Northwood Stop still on the Old Ballymun Road, or has it been moved west of the Ballymun Road?

Zebra3

Green Party: Ossian Smyth wrote: »

TII and NTA are meeting with elected representatives tomorrow evening to launch the 'MetroLink' project and answer any questions and outline the consultation process.

Do you have any questions you want me to ask on your behalf?

I saw the details that were leaked in the Irish Times. Other than that, I understand that:

• There will be 25 stations on a 26km route
• Underground platform length is to be 60m but 'extendible to 90m in future'
• Full grade separation to Sandyford.
• €20m Mater station box will not be used

Why has the line shifted from Drumcondra westwards to Whitworth Road?

(I don't live locally, but my understanding was the review was about cutting costs but I would assume this has added to the tunnelling which therefore increases costs unnecessarily).

ricimaki

Green Party: Ossian Smyth wrote: »

TII and NTA are meeting with elected representatives tomorrow evening to launch the 'MetroLink' project and answer any questions and outline the consultation process.

Do you have any questions you want me to ask on your behalf?

I saw the details that were leaked in the Irish Times. Other than that, I understand that:

• There will be 25 stations on a 26km route
• Underground platform length is to be 60m but 'extendible to 90m in future'
• Full grade separation to Sandyford.
• €20m Mater station box will not be used

Thanks for coming on here!

Is the rolling stock to be 100% low floor (like the Luas)?
What will happen to the existing Green line both north and south of the Metro alignment? Will the metro be fully separated from the Luas at both sides?
What scope/provisions are there for future extensions to both the metro and Luas systems once this is complete?
What is the rough schedule for the project, in terms of planning, funding becoming available, construction starting, modifications to the Green line, and opening?
What is the expected frequency of the metro?
Are there provisions for automated trains?

bk

Green Party: Ossian Smyth wrote: »

[*]Underground platform length is to be 60m but 'extendible to 90m in future'

Hi Ossian, thanks for taking the time to ask.

Others have raised all the questions I have, but I'd really like to highlight the importance of the above one.

You need to find out exactly what 'extendible to 90m in future' means.

If they mean that the station boxes will be built to 90m, but not initially fully kitted out, then that is reasonable. But if they mean they will be only digging 60 meter station boxes and that in future they could technically possibly mine out a 90m platform, it would be a disaster.

It would be extremely expensive and difficult to mine out 90m stations in future.

Opening at just 60m when the Luas is struggling with 54m trams, will be madness and likely have us with jam packed trains almost from opening day and looking to expand not long after. It is very short sighted IMO.

Idbatterim

Extendable to 90m. When do they plan on doing that? A year after opening? Here’s a question for them, ask them if we should have any faith in any of them, given the bloody shambles these overpaid clowns make of everything here! This shouldn’t be left to the Irish, a scheme of this size, that value and no prior history or experience of delivering a scheme like this. With known incompetence from top to bottom ... look at the m50, Luas Cross City , I don’t need to continue!

Idbatterim

The 60m platforms is probably so that they can justify scrapping the new scheme in two tears, when they have planning and the figures don’t stand up anymore! Also ask them if it’s going to be driverless or do they prefer to have the regular as clockwork strikes every few years. About the only certainty with Irish transport!

I read yesterday, that they are thinking of not blowing all of the money available in this years budgst. Which is expected to be 3.5,000,000,000 available. Hmmm I wonder where they could find the pittance of e80,000,000 for the biggest investment in Irish transport history ...most of which will simply go back to the exchequer! We trust these morons with over a 60,000,000,000 budget every year? I wouldn’t have them do my household budget!

Heartbreak Hank

Is it planned to be a driver-less system?

LeinsterDub

The most important question. How many people per hour at capacity. The extendable to 90 might not be so bad if we start off around 15,000 per direction per hour.
Keep in mind the Luas green line with the longer trams is circa 9000 .

bk

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The most important question. How many people per hour at capacity. The extendable to 90 might not be so bad if we start off around 15,000 per direction per hour

I suspect it will be able to support a higher frequency then Luas (say a train every 1.5 minutes versus max 3 minutes of Luas), so yes it should have a much higher throughput then Luas. However a tunnel is something which will likely still be used a hundred years from now (see London Underground), so making sure that stations are right up front will avoid lots of headaches later.

tom1ie

Can you ask them what size the p+r on the Northside will be, if it’s any smaller than 10000, heckle them.
Will it have direct access onto and off the m1 and will a fully a fully integrated ticketing setup, as in I go online buy a ticket for p+r which includes journey into cc and back, on the metro, be available?

How are they electrifying the tunnel, will it be overhead wires or 3rd rail?

What is the planned frequency at rush hour, thus what is the planned capacity.
Thanks for asking!

Oh and what is the 20m matter station box going to be used for? They’d hardly be wasting 20m of tax payers money now would they..........