Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

yabadabado

It's depressing but in no way surprising.

Brian CivilEng

We can't let this be the narrative. All of us who support this need to do our part in presenting the other side of the story. No wonder Leo was spending so much on his department of spin, we have let the temporary relocation of sports facilities dominate the news cycle over the biggest investment in public transport in this country's history.

tom1ie

abitofacomedian wrote: »

We can't let this be the narrative. All of us who support this need to do our part in presenting the other side of the story. No wonder Leo was spending so much on his department of spin, we have let the temporary relocation of sports facilities dominate the news cycle over the biggest investment in public transport in this country's history.

Agreed but how do you get a platform(pardon the pun) to change narrative. This is where we need a strong political voice backing up the nta and tii.

lateconnection

It was a very typically Irish infrastructure discussion.

Metrolink will end up like the Luas, M50, Dublin Airport Terminal 2, all berated during the planning and design, and when they opened, they proved themselves to be a success.

Just take the Luas, people thought nobody would use it, and that it was a waste of money. Soon after opening people loved it, with people wanting Luas extensions all over Dublin.

This is what will happen with Metrolink, it will be utterly berated over the coming years. People won't see the benefits until after it opens. Once it opens, Dubliners will see what they have been missing out on, and this will lead to huge support for future metro lines in other parts of Dublin (Terenure, Rathfarnham, Knocklyon, Ballyboden corridor among other transport corridors)

Brian CivilEng

tom1ie wrote: »

Agreed but how do you get a platform(pardon the pun) to change narrative. This is where we need a strong political voice backing up the nta and tii.

That is something I am trying to figure out. So far I have come up with chatting with like minded individuals in the internet, and ranting about infrastructure not getting enough respect at tea break in work.

Seriously, should we start sending letters to our local councillors and tds supporting the project? Letters to the editors, talk to Joe, targeted Facebook ad campaign, free beer? Dammit Jim I'm an engineer not a PR specialist.

mfceiling

Was seriously pìssed off watching this. Just a bunch of negatives from all angles.
And the response to not having a Metro? The bus. Every fcuking time these clowns come on tv it's always the bus. Well sorry but I have travelled a fair bit around Europe and at every large airport I've never felt the need to get a bus into the city when there was a metro/undergroung/rail option.

Idbatterim

Didn’t even bother watching it. I was struck in gridlock today at 5pm on m50 and leopardstown. This is ruining lives! And yet a few gaa pitches is what rte report on? Not how Metrolink would transform the city and can help end the housing crisis? Yeah that makes sense. Will they querying the cost of more welfare increases running to hundreds of millions sent up in smoke in budget 2019? White elephant motorways? If I had my way. Rte would be shut down. It’s a relic ...

Stephen15

sdanseo wrote: »

Not remotely required.

But they prevent accidents, sadly some suicides, and from a more impersonal point of view they also prevent the substantial disruption after such an incident.

Also prevent vandalism from 'bombing' incidents where someone pulls the emergency break at the stops and then a group graffiti the outside of the train from end to end. Never heard of it happening in Ireland but it happens regularly on the continent.

ignorance is strength

Believe it or not, Sean Barrett is a transport economist.

The bulk of his complaint was related to his claim that the airport is already sufficiently served, ignoring that Metro Link will also serve Swords and provide a hub for the Dart and western commuter lines. His discussion of the CBA and time savings is flawed for the same reason. (And that's before you mention David McCullagh's incisive counter: they may have the same journey time, but they're much much more frequent!)

He said that the transport to Dublin Airport has the highest public transport share in Europe. The first link I clicked on to verify that was an NTA report from 2011 comparing Dublin (33%) with Stansted (47%). It's also not clear why that counts against the Metro Link: at the moment, only 25% of Irish take public transport to the airport.

He said that a large part of the money is "ripping out" the Luas, when that's in fact an exceedingly small part of the cost.

He said that IMF has sad that the standards of capital investment appraisal in Ireland "are the worst they've encountered anywhere", but then doesn't justify that this project is flawed for the same reasons. (He ignores that he and his ilk could well be responsible for the IMF assessment.)

His last attempt to get something to stick was to ask why the CBA didn't include the "social dimension" of Na Fianna's disruption. He's on awfully weak ground if he wants the subjective social dimension considered, because there are a heck of a lot more people that will benefit than the small number of Na Fianna members who will be temporarily disrupted, before themselves reaping the benefits.

It had all the hallmarks of a rant.

CarlosHarpic

tom1ie wrote: »

Sean barret.
Overcapacity trains
Empty trains
Ripping up luas lines.

Ffs!!! This is a joke.

This is how controlled opposition works in Ireland. Governments announce plans then recruit insider spooks to destroy plans.

It's all a game. There never was a MetroLink just like there never was a MetroNorth.

tom1ie

abitofacomedian wrote: »

That is something I am trying to figure out. So far I have come up with chatting with like minded individuals in the internet, and ranting about infrastructure not getting enough respect at tea break in work.

Seriously, should we start sending letters to our local councillors and tds supporting the project? Letters to the editors, talk to Joe, targeted Facebook ad campaign, free beer? Dammit Jim I'm an engineer not a PR specialist.

Well I've no affiliation to them, but the only political party that seems to show interest in public transport and proper planning seems to be the greens. Plus they're the only ones thatve shown any interest in this forum.
If I was a senior member of the green party I'd be making this a serious political issue.

Zebra3

Just started watching it and McCarthy has said it’s “one line serving one suburb”.

A blatant lie, unchallenged, on national television.

Kfagan10

abitofacomedian wrote: »

That is something I am trying to figure out. So far I have come up with chatting with like minded individuals in the internet, and ranting about infrastructure not getting enough respect at tea break in work.

Seriously, should we start sending letters to our local councillors and tds supporting the project? Letters to the editors, talk to Joe, targeted Facebook ad campaign, free beer? Dammit Jim I'm an engineer not a PR specialist.

Realistically, direct any and all messages favouring this to the NTA/TII who will plough abead planning this full throttle until a time government pull the plug.

The current Minister will be gone in 6 months and officials within the department who have any sway will never see your message anyway.

I'd honestly love to see this project completed, because I know it would be an eye opener for people and would lead to calls for an expanded Dublin Metro network.

Zebra3

The Na Fianna bloke Senan claiming that every kid in the area will go through the club at some stage in the area. Another lie. No club in the country in any sports has that.

sdanseo

RTÉ's coverage of this has me seriously questioning their impartiality. Again.

Their bias against the project is pathetic.

The attidude of members of na Fianna (whose pockets will be no doubt lined for their woes) is pathetic.

Ireland's politics in terms of infrastructure, planning and most things honestly - is pathetic.

We have an absoute shambles, excuse of a government held together by two or three "ministers" stamping their feet like children until they get what they want, and we have a media intent on bolstering their own tax-funded salaries by providing top-class reporting on the big bad march of progress and its imposition on the PEOPLE IT WILL BENEFIT.

For a world leader in so many areas, it's unfathomable how utterly fúcking BACKWARDS this country can be.

If I say any more I may get infracted so will leave it there for now.

*fumes*

ricimaki

Zebra3 wrote: »

Just started watching it and McCarthy has said it’s “one line serving one suburb”.

A blatant lie, unchallenged, on national television.

Take a look at his comments about the LUAS before it opened. Basically, he claims the Luas would not be viable if it could not pay for itself within 1 year.

Himself and the other economist who was on couldn't think long-term (meaning more than 2 years after it was completed), claiming the Metrolink would have too much capacity.... Clearly he'd like another M50 capacity repeat.

Zebra3

mfceiling wrote: »

Was seriously pìssed off watching this. Just a bunch of negatives from all angles.
And the response to not having a Metro? The bus. Every fcuking time these clowns come on tv it's always the bus. Well sorry but I have travelled a fair bit around Europe and at every large airport I've never felt the need to get a bus into the city when there was a metro/undergroung/rail option.

I always get the feeling that these “experts” who advocate for more buses are actually the type of people who wouldn’t be caught dead on one.

Aside from that, good to see the guy McQueen(?) from Dublin Chamber of Commerce on it performing well. Probably wanted to rip Barret’s head off.

Stephen15

ricimaki wrote: »

Take a look at his comments about the LUAS before it opened. Basically, he claims the Luas would not be viable if it could not pay for itself within 1 year.

Himself and the other economist who was on couldn't think long-term (meaning more than 2 years after it was completed), claiming the Metrolink would have too much capacity.... Clearly he'd like another M50 capacity repeat.

What he really wants is zero investment in infrastructure. Thankfully people like him are not in power if we listened to him all the time any capital investment is a waste of money and our infrastructure would be reclaimed by nature.

Zebra3

Stephen15 wrote: »

What he really wants is zero investment in infrastructure. Thankfully people like him are not in power if we listened to him all the time any capital investment is a waste of money and our infrastructure would be reclaimed by nature.

He’s not in power but his unchallenged bs and failed past record is getting a free ride in the media and influencing people.

Muahahaha

ignorance is strength wrote: »

Believe it or not, Sean Barrett is a transport economist.

Listening to Professor Barrett I couldnt actually believe he is an academic. In relation to the Metro plans he used the word "nonsense" at least five times yet had no stats to back up these claims. Really astounding stuff from someone who is a professor, his contribution was just pure hyperbole

tom1ie wrote: »

Agreed but how do you get a platform(pardon the pun) to change narrative. This is where we need a strong political voice backing up the nta and tii.

Thats a really good point and that strong political voice should be Leo Varadkar. After all it is Leo who put the Metro back on the agenda so now he has an obligation to show leadership and back his convictions. I genuinely believe Leo *gets* it and understands fully that if the Metro is not built then Dublin will grind to a halt. However the problem with Leo is he is too concerned about his own image and popularity than to get into any kind of battle with the naysayers. For all his faults at least Bertie Ahern was able to dismiss the naysayers when it came to the Port Tunnel and Luas lines. Ahern let them have all the waffle they wanted and then just ploughed on with these vital infrastructure projects regardless of him personally being unpopular because of it. And at the end of the day when they are built and completed everyone turns around and agrees that they were needed and Ahern gets the credit for showing vision and leadership.

Problem here is Varadkar is not a natural leader. The marriage equality referendum proved that for me, he hid in the long grass for over a decade and then pops his head above the parapet just a few weeks before D-day. He was more concerned with his own popularity than standing up and being counted.

tom1ie

Zebra3 wrote: »

He’s not in power but his unchallenged bs and failed past record is getting a free ride in the media and influencing people.

Yeah exactly. This is seriously pissing me off. Where is the unbiased argument against it? Where's Eamon Ryan arguing for it on prime time? Its so one sided at the moment I fear the worst.

LongboardPro

Could a complaint be made to the BAI about the unfairness on PrimeTime tonight?

marno21

"Come down on a Saturday morning to Mobhi Road and look at the nursery."

No mention by RTE of the chronic congestion on the M1 and M50, the growing Airport providing that level of jobs which is running out of car parking spaces, the chronic shortage of housing in the Dublin area, the continuing car dependent sprawl, the ridiculous level of overcrowding on the tram service serving the south of the city.

Na Fianna should certainly be compensated for what will happen and alternative facilities be provided at the closest possible location to Na Fianna's location. The downright hackjob by RTE on this tonight is shameful. It was less than 2 months ago they had a feature about chronic congestion on the Luas line.

Was there such a hackjob on the BBC when Crossrail was propsosed?

As for Sean Barrett's "contribution".....

Muahahaha

marno21 wrote: »

"Come down on a Saturday morning to Mobhi Road and look at the nursery."

It was complete "Wont someone think of the children" stuff. And not one mention from Miriam that their pitches would be temporary located, the way the three of them were going on you would swear that the Metro was shutting down the whole club. Miriam just stands there doing her nodding dog routine instead of providing balance and moderation to a one sided debate. It was really pathetic stuff from RTE.

Zebra3

Muahahaha wrote: »

For all his faults at least Bertie Ahern was able to dismiss the naysayers when it came to the Port Tunnel and Luas lines. Ahern let them have all the waffle they wanted and then just ploughed on with these vital infrastructure projects regardless of him personally being unpopular because of it. And at the end of the day when they are built and completed everyone turns around and agrees that they were needed and Ahern gets the credit for showing vision and leadership.

Ahern totally folded to city centre business interests which meant the green line stopped at SSG.

Grandeeod

CarlosHarpic wrote: »

This is how controlled opposition works in Ireland. Governments announce plans then recruit insider spooks to destroy plans.

It's all a game. There never was a MetroLink just like there never was a MetroNorth.

While there is a lot of anger here, your insightful post, which I agree with, will fly over too many heads. Nobody likes to accept that this kind of political chicanery goes on. But when you stand in the corridors of Leinster House and listen to these eejits, it all makes sense.

The Primetime piece tonight was diabolical, yet predictable. Until the return of a brazen, informed and and very vocal rail lobby, the voices here will never be heard and idiot opinions from so called economists and professors already proved wrong, will never be discredited. Get off your phones, tablets, laptops and PCs lads. Organize yourselves and provide an informed alternative source of info.

strassenwo!f

Was that promo video from the NTA or from RTE? Why are they showing an entrance to the St. Stephen's Green station at the top of Grafton Street? I understood that that station would be over at the other side of the Green

Muahahaha

The promo video shown on Prime Time last night was actually from Metro North when there was a station planned for the top of Grafton St.

Muahahaha

Zebra3 wrote: »

Ahern totally folded to city centre business interests which meant the green line stopped at SSG.

He did. But I think he still deserves credit, there was a lot of naysayers regarding the Luas back in the day and it would have been less hassle for him not to push it forward.

As regards MetroLink I have yet to see any govt. Minister push this new plan and fight for it. Shane Ross doesnt seem bothered, Pashal no doubt is keeping his head down afraid of Na Fianna. FG put this back on the agenda after years of Enda Kenny ignoring it so they have an obligation to inform the public that short term pain is for long term gain. So far they are utterly failing in that regard.

ricimaki

LongboardPro wrote: »

Could a complaint be made to the BAI about the unfairness on PrimeTime tonight?

I certainly will be lodging one. I will also put in a general submission to the consultation. Others here in favour of Metrolink should do the same