Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

sdanseo

The level of parish-pump selfishness and actual verified stupidity - genuine lack of actual intelligence - on display in some of these objectors is stunning. Even in the context of Irish politics.

Yes we are biased towards the project proceeding but even taking a step back and looking at some of these arguments objectively, you'd have to wonder if the people spouting such absolute nonsense were dropped on their heads at some point.

Sam Russell

Equium wrote: »

The Glasnevin ACA was talking about the decision to locate a station at Whitworth rather than Drumcondra. She suggested that perhaps Drumcondra would be a better option because it would require longer walks when transferring between the metro and heavy rail lines. This, she says, would help to stave off obesity in the population. That's what we are dealing with here. It will be a miracle if this metro is built within the next 20 years.

Well, let the obese or overweight stay on the train till it gets to Drumcondra and then walk to Whitworth Road, while the more athletic would just transfer as designed. Good for the figure and the health to have a bit of a walk in the morning.

What nonsense.

strassenwo!f

She is probably right that Drumcondra would be a better option, but almost certainly for the wrong reasons.

A Drumcondra interchange for the metro would be nicely located almost halfway between the DART line through Connolly and the LUAS through Cabra, so there should be no overlap of catchments on the most popular journeys, i.e those in or out of the centre of the city.

With the proposed interchange at Whitworth there is very definitely such an overlap.

Thus, for the residents of Phibsborough, Ireland is proposing to provide, all within a couple of hundred metres of Doyle's Corner:

(a) an overground LUAS to/from St. Stephen's Green and O'Connell Street from the Cabra stop;

(b) an underground metro to/from St. Stephen's Green and O'Connell Street from the Whitworth Road station; and

(c) an underground metro to/from St. Stephen's Green and O'Connell Street from the Mater station.

Sounds like overkill to me, in that area of the city.

The lifespan of Fatties in Phibsborough will be considerably reduced if that comes to pass:P.

piuswal

Replying to BK in particular:


Originally Posted by piuswal

"6. In the case of Na Fianna, it is the very close proximity of 3 schools that is the primary issue as Far as I can see, though Na Fianna obviously would not be happy either, and I understand a TBM will be used at that site; a figure of truck movements every 3 minutes has been mooted."

BTW two schools, not three.

I thought there was only two but there is also a play school located in Na Fianna

as regards 9. I was merely pointing out that if such a condition was in a survey it may force the surveyors to look more carefully at alternatives. Of course routes, stations etc do end up on occasions, close to historical structures and schools etc because there is no viable alternative

If there are no viable alternatives then it will have to go ahead, I have no problem with that. I'm merely raising questions, looking for solutions to what is seen as quite major problem, particularly for hundreds of children over many years.

marno21

Discussion on Metrolink with a representative of Scoil Mobhi on Newstalk today

https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/81889/44329/25th_April_2018_-_The_Hard_Shoulder_Part_1/

cgcsb

sdanseo wrote: »

The level of parish-pump selfishness and actual verified stupidity - genuine lack of actual intelligence - on display in some of these objectors is stunning. Even in the context of Irish politics.

Yes we are biased towards the project proceeding but even taking a step back and looking at some of these arguments objectively, you'd have to wonder if the people spouting such absolute nonsense were dropped on their heads at some point.

I would argue that free education has failed in it's mission, we're one of the most educated nations on earth and we now have the internet which contains the near sum of human knowledge for free, but still a large % of the population are boneheads. What's worse is that we have a planning system that treats the opinion of a drooling moron with a big mouth and reactionary mind the same as it would an erudite person.

Dardania

cgcsb wrote: »

sdanseo wrote: »

The level of parish-pump selfishness and actual verified stupidity - genuine lack of actual intelligence - on display in some of these objectors is stunning. Even in the context of Irish politics.

Yes we are biased towards the project proceeding but even taking a step back and looking at some of these arguments objectively, you'd have to wonder if the people spouting such absolute nonsense were dropped on their heads at some point.

I would argue that free education has failed in it's mission, we're one of the most educated nations on earth and we now have the internet which contains the near sum of human knowledge for free, but still a large % of the population are boneheads. What's worse is that we have a planning system that treats the opinion of a drooling moron with a big mouth and reactionary mind the same as it would an erudite person.

I know we're in danger of drifting off topic, but I see your point in context of MetroLink.
I read an interesting article lately about Berlin Airport (https://www.ozy.com/acumen/berlin-airport-failure-makes-german-engineering-pride-crash/86305) and it makes a point about there being many new building regulations since the project started. And many of these are attributable why th e project is delayed. 
Relating it to your point, people with huge influence on the outcome of a project are divorced from the impact of their actions on the wider population.

cgcsb

I think we've reached peak crazy:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/na-fianna-refused-invite-to-attend-metrolink-launch-in-dublin-hotel-1.3474278

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

Colm McCarthy appears to think a bus service from the Airport equates to a Metro service. A 76 seater coach like those used by Aircoach would be required to leave the Airport via the one roundabout at the rate of one every 18 seconds (and arrive every 18 seconds) to match Metro with 60 metre length, and ever 10 seconds with 90 metre length.

The Metro is capable (at full load and speed) capable of carrying 50 million passengers per year, and the Airport carried 30 million passengers last year. How many do they expect in 2029 with the second runway in operation? 50,000 people work at the Airport,

Gospel according to Colm McCarthy.
If it has metal wheels, it is bad - but rubber wheels, it is good. If it is underground it is very expensive but at street level that is good. The money could (and should) be used to build 10 Luas lines - not specified where they should go but Lucan was mentioned. No idea where the extra road space will come from, but build it and it will appear.

Where is Doheny & Nesbitt's exactly? I could do with a drink.

A bus is fine for the airport at the minute, although the M1 is now at capacity near the airport. But one thing he seems to forget is that this isn't "one line to serve one suburb". You can't serve north of Swords (P&R), Swords itself, Dublin Airport, Northwood/Santry, Ballymun, DCU, Glasnevin (including connections to 2 heavy rail lines), the Mater, the city centre, the DART connections to the above locations, and the Green Line expansion with buses.

You make a very relevant point with the airport workers also. How are they supposed to get to work? The M1 is at capacity and they are hardly going to sit in this traffic in a bus.

Doheny & Nesbitt's is near that highly successful "white elephant" Luas stop at St Stephens Green. You know that white elephant line that would never live up to expected passenger numbers.

Sam Russell

The point I was making is that buses would require access to the airport through the one roundabout that serves the parking for DAA, the cars that drop off and collect, plus the taxis. It just does not have the capacity at the present time, let alone when the second runway is built.

The airport, DCU, Sandyford, the Mater, the main line interchange at Whitworth Road, and the city centre are all huge traffic generators for the Metro.

piuswal

cgcsb wrote: »

I would argue that free education has failed in it's mission, we're one of the most educated nations on earth and we now have the internet which contains the near sum of human knowledge for free, but still a large % of the population are boneheads. What's worse is that we have a planning system that treats the opinion of a drooling moron with a big mouth and reactionary mind the same as it would an erudite person.

There is a lot that could be said about your comments, but they are really for another thread. So I will keep it simple and hopefully not incur the wrath of any mod.

What do you want a PhD in planning before you can comment? That is democracy.

Sam Russell

There is no evidence that the planning system treats submissions that have no merit with any level of seriousness. In fact, the contrary situation is clear.

The NIMBY submissions are usually ignored.

Now can we get back to Metrolink.

LongboardPro

piuswal wrote: »

There is a lot that could be said about your comments, but they are really for another thread. So I will keep it simple and hopefully not incur the wrath of any mod.

What do you want a PhD in planning before you can comment? That is democracy.

But at the same time not having a clue about what you're taking about don't give you a right to shout from a pedestal. McCarthy and the likes fully know what they're doing. They're trying to brainwash people into believing their narrative.

cgcsb

piuswal wrote: »

What do you want a PhD in planning before you can comment? That is democracy.

No, I'd like people who say things like 'buses will do for the airport' to be met with a short giggle/smile, an eye roll and a turn around when they present their idiocy to the relevant authority. Like a crazy cat lady that comes in off the street rambling, it should be met with indifference and ignored, not reprinted in a newspaper or written down like it is a valid submission.

tom1ie

cgcsb wrote: »

No, I'd like people who say things like 'buses will do for the airport' to be met with a short giggle/smile, an eye roll and a turn around when they present their idiocy to the relevant authority. Like a crazy cat lady that comes in off the street rambling, it should be met with indifference and ignored, not reprinted in a newspaper or written down like it is a valid submission.

Ha ha, if only!

cgcsb

I think it is an Ireland/UK thing or possibly an all north of Europe thing. In Spain they have a similar consultation process but it doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of bafoonery. Down there the village idiots are sort of aware that they are the village idiots and they accept that silence is a good substitute for knowledge. In this part of the world people who have a gaping void in their skull just open their mouths super wide and let it all fall out either in the tabloids(who love a mouth), at consultations or crucially on social media(which is suited to short sentences and one liners). Perhaps in this part of the world having a 'degree' in Canadian studies or some other such 4 year waste of taxes tricks some people into believing that their ramblings are something resembling intelligence.

BonnieSituation

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is no evidence that the planning system treats submissions that have no merit with any level of seriousness. In fact, the contrary situation is clear.

The NIMBY submissions are usually ignored.

Now can we get back to Metrolink.

But the thing is they aren't. They are facilitated to the degree that someone will have to read them or listen to them or waste time with them and other "real" queries will get similar attention.

If you ever want to rip your hair out read the submissions to the Waterford County Boundary report. It's mind boggling and typical of the shoite that planners and civil servants have to wade through for EVERYTHING that is proposed in this country!

http://www.housing.gov.ie/local-government/reform/boundaries/report-waterford-boundary-committee

BonnieSituation

cgcsb wrote: »

I think it is an Ireland/UK thing or possibly an all north of Europe thing. In Spain they have a similar consultation process but it doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of bafoonery. Down there the village idiots are sort of aware that they are the village idiots and they accept that silence is a good substitute for knowledge. In this part of the world people who have a gaping void in their skull just open their mouths super wide and let it all fall out either in the tabloids(who love a mouth), at consultations or crucially on social media(which is suited to short sentences and one liners). Perhaps in this part of the world having a 'degree' in Canadian studies or some other such 4 year waste of taxes tricks some people into believing that their ramblings are something resembling intelligence.

Don't drag the Nordics into this.

Lord Glentoran

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But the thing is they aren't. They are facilitated to the degree that someone will have to read them or listen to them or waste time with them and other "real" queries will get similar attention.

If you ever want to rip your hair out read the submissions to the Waterford County Boundary report. It's mind boggling and typical of the shoite that planners and civil servants have to wade through for EVERYTHING that is proposed in this country!

http://www.housing.gov.ie/local-government/reform/boundaries/report-waterford-boundary-committee

I followed the original Luas Public Inquiry process and every two-bit loolah had their say trying to run interference on the project, until the sole member, Judge Sean O'Leary, shut them up with his report. The report, inter alia, made reference to all the mad schemes posted as alternatives and effectively dismissed them as crayonism. The scheme got on.

That is the sort of approach Official Ireland needs to this project. Tell the crayonistas and 'transport economists' to go feck themselves.

Lord Glentoran

LongboardPro wrote: »

But at the same time not having a clue about what you're taking about don't give you a right to shout from a pedestal. McCarthy and the likes fully know what they're doing. They're trying to brainwash people into believing their narrative.

Jesus, if they didn't shut up after being wrong about DART and Luas, they never will. Just tune them out as irritating interference.

strassenwo!f

I reckon that Dublin is going to eventually, many years from now, end up with at least two metro lines running between the north and the south of the city.

This is based on what I have seen in cities in Europe (mainly in Germany) of a similar size and density to Dublin.

One potential metro corridor towards the northside, which I had the opportunity to travel on for the first time three days ago, when I was in Dublin, is the alignment between Broadstone and Broombridge. This is a corridor which is tailor-made for an upgrade to a metro, at some stage.

I feel sure that the metro bullet will eventually be bitten in Dublin, but I am curious as to why the initial line is planned so far west, almost beside the Broadstone-Broombridge alignment at one location, namely Phibsborough, which I mentioned on the previous page.

This looks to me like an error.

MJohnston

I preferred it when you were obsessed with dubious, completely hypothetical routes for DU.

Alvin Holler

strassenwo!f wrote: »

but I am curious as to why the initial line is planned so far west, almost beside the Broadstone-Broombridge alignment at one location, namely Phibsborough, which I mentioned on the previous page.

This looks to me like an error.

There is pretty much two options for intersecting with the existing two rail lines, at Drumcondra or at Glasnevin.

Glasnevin was chosen because the two railway lines are right beside each other and at the same height whereas Drumcondra has a considerable height difference and distance between the lines.

Plus, while buildings do need to be cpo'd at Glasnevin, there is plenty of room there and it's relatively straightforward to build a station there. Drumcondra would be trickier.

Telchak

Alvin Holler wrote: »

Plus, while buildings do need to be cpo'd at Glasnevin, there is plenty of room there and it's relatively straightforward to build a station there. Drumcondra would be trickier.

Indeed, Glasnevin will be cut and cover while the Drumcondra Metro North station was to be mined.

strassenwo!f

MJohnston wrote: »

I preferred it when you were obsessed with dubious, completely hypothetical routes for DU.

Yes, such memories. How nice it would be now to have even a dubious, hypothetical route to think about for that project.

Kermit.de.frog

We need some Chinese discipline and efficiency in this country in relation to infrastructure.

I would seriously recommend, in order to catch up quickly, that for a period of 10 years we have a scorched earth policy. Toss people out and get the infrastructure built, no objections. If they don't take the offers, tough.

After 10 years we can put back in a reformed planning regime.

Delaying this project (largest in the history of the state) for a fcuking GAA field? I'm all for the GAA but a bit of perspective and cop on please.

JohnC.

China also has a problem with infrastructure failing, bridges collapsing, trains derailing, that sort of thing. So if you want to live in a country that copies China, I'd suggest moving there instead of bringing it here.

CatInABox

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We need some Chinese discipline and efficiency in this country in relation to infrastructure.

I would seriously recommend, in order to catch up quickly, that for a period of 10 years we have a scorched earth policy. Toss people out and get the infrastructure built, no objections. If they don't take the offers, tough.

After 10 years we can put back in a reformed planning regime.

Delaying this project (largest in the history of the state) for a fcuking GAA field? I'm all for the GAA but a bit of perspective and cop on please.

Nothing has been delayed....... yet, anyway. I find it all annoying when people try to hold up projects, but the fact is that these people are well intentioned. They believe that the area is better served with a functioning GAA club. I think that they're very wrong, but to ride roughshod over their concerns is something that wouldn't sit right with me.

We've got a process for dealing with these problems, and while it could do with a bit of reform, it functions, albeit slower than I'd like. The reforms that I'd like to see aren't around ignoring peoples concerns either, they're around the inconsistencies in the process, for example, the skyscraper at Tara St being reject for being too tall despite being well within the guidelines set for the area.

Kermit.de.frog

CatInABox wrote: »

Nothing has been delayed....... yet, anyway. I find it all annoying when people try to hold up projects, but the fact is that these people are well intentioned. They believe that the area is better served with a functioning GAA club. I think that they're very wrong, but to ride roughshod over their concerns is something that wouldn't sit right with me.

We've got a process for dealing with these problems, and while it could do with a bit of reform, it functions, albeit slower than I'd like. The reforms that I'd like to see aren't around ignoring peoples concerns either, they're around the inconsistencies in the process, for example, the skyscraper at Tara St being reject for being too tall despite being well within the guidelines set for the area.

I understand the point however I see this planning delinquency and NIMBYISM as a serious threat to this country's economic future.

Something radical has to happen and it needs to happen fast because we are being left behind by total imbeciles whether in councils or among the general public.

Kermit.de.frog

You mention Tara street.

Take a look at the docklands. How much economic activity, jobs and income to the state has been pissed away because our council in Dublin chose to build shoeboxes in a part of town that, if you built a 50 storey building, would have fcuk all impact on their cherished Georgian Dublin?

I'll bring in corruption too. How many councillors are renting out properties? I would really love to know.

It's all bull**** and there is underlying corruption to it all.

That is why we don't have a proper functioning city.