Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Grandeeod

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Taoiseach wants alternative route for Metro North

Sigh.

Using Na Fianna's grounds is a non-runner.

LOL! And here we go again. I saw that coming a mile off.

LongboardPro

New Metro Link (North) 2+ Coming Soon™

Elessar

More political interference.

I'm disgusted.

Basically the message here is don't mess with the GAA. To hell with the people of our capital city and to hell with our future. Progress but not on our doorstep.

Elessar

Will the Taoiseach be as authoritative when the revised plan inevitably has to CPO some families from their homes?

The project was only launched and already there is this farce. Will we ever see this this side of 2040?

D.L.R.

The sacred cows of Ireland. Public transport isn't one of them!

LXFlyer

Grandeeod wrote: »

LOL! And here we go again. I saw that coming a mile off.

I’m actually more surprised at the level of surprise expressed here to be honest than by what Leo said. Far too many people here have been gushing about this project as a dead cert while frankly until construction contracts are signed and physical work actually starts nothing could be further from the truth.

What happened in Leinster House today is par for the course I’m afraid.

Now let’s see what happens when it dawns on the populace at large about all the proposed CPO activity with BusConnects and people losing their front gardens.

evancunny95

So disappointed and angry this has happened already and what does it stem from? The fact that all politics is truly local. Mary Lous daughter goes to Scoil Catriona, we all know about Paschals connections as well. Michael Martin was also in the Dail today demanding the route be changed. 

I really despair for this country, the experts have suggested this route. Economists, Engineers, Planners and Architects, but once again it is the politicians who get in the way of infrastructure which is so desperately needed. I am disappointed in Leo, I truly thought he could be above this, maybe its the way a minority government has to work but really if this results in going back to the drawing board for the whole route then it will be nothing short of a disaster for Ireland, Dublin and especially the people of Glasnevin, who actually have the most to lose from a complete new route.

marno21

Good to see Micheal Martin taking a break from objecting to critical infrastructure in his own county to start targetting the Metro:

Here are the full statements:

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald: Information on Mary Lou McDonald Zoom on Mary Lou McDonald I will raise something different with the Taoiseach relating to Project Ireland 2040, specifically the construction of MetroLink. There is a general acceptance that this is a positive proposal and the infrastructure is long overdue. I raise with the Taoiseach the so-called emerging preferred route and the impact it will have specifically in Glasnevin, more specifically on St. Mobhi Road and more specifically again on Scoil Chaitríona, Scoil Mobhí and Na Fianna GAA club. Putting my cards on the table, this is not "nimbyism" and I do not live in the direct vicinity but my daughter is a student at Scoil Chaitríona. I attended a meeting there last evening where the parents gathered.

The problem is that notice of the construction of a station and boring holes that are massive in dimension was unceremoniously delivered to the desks of the GAA club and the respective schools. There was absolutely no consideration of the fact that the proposal is to put a massive building site alongside two schools, a scoil lán-Ghaeilge and Scoil Mobhí, a bunscoil. There is a naíonra as well in the vicinity. Representatives of Na Fianna and the schools were before the Oireachtas committee and they set out the massive disruption and the threat to the health and safety of very young children that this would represent.

This is Bliain na Gaeilge and in that part of Glasnevin almost a breac-Ghaeltacht has grown up, almost organically, between the games, the language and the schools. There is a deep resentment among parents and residents that all of this is to be disrupted. I bring this to the Taoiseach's attention because he is a Dubliner and I am sure he knows Glasnevin pretty well. I know he is also keen on Gaeilge. I would like to hear his response.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin There is much to discuss in the short time I have and I will not be able to get around to all of it. The national development plan involved a significant tour of the country. University heads and those in institutes of technology love to greet members of the Government in the forlorn hope that the visit and their hospitality would be followed by numerous grants from the Government. Billions of euro have been promised all over the country and part of this relates to the metro project. I have visited Na Fianna and Home Farm and the two local schools are also seeing an impact. Many of these projects have had no serious in-depth cost appraisal or analysis, and some serious economists have pointed out that despite the promises, there has only been a cursory economic analysis of things like the metro and other big projects. There were promises without any great analysis. I was once advised by a very wise city manager who has passed to his eternal reward that one must be very careful of engineers planning, as they tend to go as the crow flies and they do not very often look at what is in the way.

What is striking about Na Fianna is the extraordinary human resource, cultural, community and sporting endeavour that it represents. It has 3,000 members and is on 11 sites but this is its home. It is not just a GAA club but it is a community centre. It is the hub of the entire community. The value of voluntary human endeavour, which civilises a society and ensures an esprit de corps in communities, would be wiped out without a moment's thought by a proposal such as the metro. It is extraordinary that in the Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, analysis, this area is not even identified as an obstacle. There are six major obstacles identified ahead of the plan but this is not identified as such. Home Farm has a pitch adjacent to the site. It needs a more holistic appraisal by the Government, and the Government must discuss this with TII and argue that it should go back to the drawing board and reconsider the options, and most notably this option. It has an impact on so much human capital. We have gone on about this in the north inner city and there is a project team dealing with the importance of human capital. This project would wipe that to naught and utterly destroy that human capital for a long time to come.

The rest of the debate hasn't been put up yet.

Looks like the statements by the stakeholders in the Joint Committee last week have rattled a few cages. As long as this interference doesn't stop the Glasnevin interchange, I am ok with the moving of the TBM site to get the **** on with things.

D.L.R.

marno21 wrote: »

As long as this interference doesn't stop the Glasnevin interchange, I am ok with the moving of the TBM site to get the **** on with things.

Quite right. If Fianna don't want a Metro station to their door, then we should oblige them. Move the tunnel and place a station closer to Glasnevin village, for example.

There are plenty of better sites, this was just convenient in terms of construction costs. Govt have asked for a workaround, so they can't complain when that workaround comes at a higher cost.

Grandeeod

LXFlyer wrote: »

I’m actually more surprised at the level of surprise expressed here to be honest than by what Leo said. Far too many people here have been gushing about this project as a dead cert while frankly until construction contracts are signed and physical work actually starts nothing could be further from the truth.

What happened in Leinster House today is par for the course I’m afraid.

Now let’s see what happens when it dawns on the populace at large about all the proposed CPO activity with BusConnects and people losing their front gardens.

I hear you. I have been subjected to fierce criticism on these forums for my views. But no matter how much I try to emphasize the political aspect, some people just don't want to get it. This Metrolink thing will go around in circles until it dies a death. Such a shame, but its been that way for donkeys years. As for DU.:rolleyes:

fly_agaric

salmocab wrote: »

Michael martins quote is interesting sounds like he’s no fan of metro at all, although as opposition politicians think they are supposed to oppose everything.

Probably hoping to see project put on ice to divert the money to his voters down south (if FF are next on the musical chairs)? Seems to be what alot of politics is about, getting the snout into govt. money for your voters by hook or by crook. Cynic in me would be surprised if he gives much of a crap about Dublin GAA club pitches (or anything else beyond the tight circle of the Dail, or other places in D2/D4 he frequents when up in the Big Smoke).

Ha that was a bit of a rant, but reading the stuff posted on this thread is very depressing and bad for ones health.

Carlos Orange

piuswal wrote: »

Another issue that seems to have arise is a claim that houses on Prospect Avenue are simply built on clay!! No proper foundations!

I don't think lacking foundations is going to be that unusual for parts of the Metro since there are lots of old houses. Don't think my house has any.

I live a couple of hundred meters from an underground station. What sort of level of disruption should I expect from the station being built and the tunnelling?

bk

Grandeeod wrote: »

I hear you. I have been subjected to fierce criticism on these forums for my views. But no matter how much I try to emphasize the political aspect, some people just don't want to get it. This Metrolink thing will go around in circles until it dies a death. Such a shame, but its been that way for donkeys years. As for DU.:rolleyes:

I do think some of you are taking this set back a little too far!

I don't see this having a major delay on the project at all. Seemingly they already have a plan B for a TBM site up near the airport, so it isn't a major deal.

The only question is what happens to the planned station at Na Fianna?

- Drop it completely, leaves a big gap and lots of locals pissed off at Na Fianna.
- Maybe it can be squeezed into the Homefarm pitch?

Only other options I can see all involve CPO'ing peoples homes!

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

I do think some of you are taking this set back a little too far!

I don't see this having a major delay on the project at all. Seemingly they already have a plan B for a TBM site up near the airport, so it isn't a major deal.

The only question is what happens to the planned station at Na Fianna?

- Drop it completely, leaves a big gap and lots of locals pissed off at Na Fianna.
- Maybe it can be squeezed into the Homefarm pitch?

Only other options I can see all involve CPO'ing peoples homes!

You stick to your script BK and I'll stick to mine. But promise me that you will stick around when this all goes tits up. I promise to stick around and own up if it doesn't.

Nobody local to the Na Fianna site cares about a metro. That's your assumption. In fact nobody in Dublin really cares about a metro or DU. They never have. The majority are car drivers and bus users. They want more road space and better bus services. Thats the loudest shout we always hear. We are back talking about the same old guff we talked about 14 years ago. No Government has ever fallen on the sword of public transport.

salmocab

Grandeeod wrote: »

Nobody local to the Na Fianna site cares about a metro. That's your assumption. In fact nobody in Dublin really cares about a metro or DU. They never have. The majority are car drivers and bus users. They want more road space and better bus services. Thats the loudest shout we always hear. We are back talking about the same old guff we talked about 14 years ago. No Government has ever fallen on the sword of public transport.

They will care after it’s built, just like lots of people especially public transport users on the south side are very jealous of people they know or work with that have a Luas near them, the commute times are much quicker and more reliable. Lots right now are probably not bothered but when/If it’s running they will care a lot.

Chivito550

Grandeeod wrote: »

You stick to your script BK and I'll stick to mine. But promise me that you will stick around when this all goes tits up. I promise to stick around and own up if it doesn't.

Nobody local to the Na Fianna site cares about a metro. That's your assumption. In fact nobody in Dublin really cares about a metro or DU. They never have. The majority are car drivers and bus users. They want more road space and better bus services. Thats the loudest shout we always hear. We are back talking about the same old guff we talked about 14 years ago. No Government has ever fallen on the sword of public transport.

Are we that dumb a population of people that we'd rather better bus services than a metro? I really despair for us at times. Do we have any understanding of how public transport works?

BowSideChamp

bk wrote: »

I do think some of you are taking this set back a little too far!

I don't see this having a major delay on the project at all. Seemingly they already have a plan B for a TBM site up near the airport, so it isn't a major deal.

The only question is what happens to the planned station at Na Fianna?

- Drop it completely, leaves a big gap and lots of locals pissed off at Na Fianna.
- Maybe it can be squeezed into the Homefarm pitch?

Only other options I can see all involve CPO'ing peoples homes!

They should bypass Glasnevin and don't build a station there. Save the project a good few €m. Honestly, if the locals want to bitch and moan about a project that will benefit them, the taxpayers should not fight them. They can get stuffed.

salmocab

Chivito550 wrote: »

Are we that dumb a population of people that we'd rather better bus services than a metro? I really despair for us at times. Do we have any understanding of how public transport works?

No but northsiders in general won’t have seen the benefits first hand and will only be hearing about the disruption slso with it being such a long term project few people will feel as strongly as the likes of us on here that are genuinely interested.

Grandeeod

salmocab wrote: »

They will care after it’s built, just like lots of people especially public transport users on the south side are very jealous of people they know or work with that have a Luas near them, the commute times are much quicker and more reliable. Lots right now are probably not bothered but when/If it’s running they will care a lot.

When you have concrete evidence that people around the GDA give a toss about public transport and are prepared to make it an election issue, get back to me. I spent 5 years of my life from 2003 to 2008 trying to tap into the public mindset. It was all insular and what about me crap. Nobody wanted to see the bigger picture. 15 years later I'm reading the same ****e here that I read back then on this same forum. I'm reading the same stuff in the wider media. Wash rinse repeat. The active members here have their hearts in the right place, but they are nowhere near representative of public opinion.

Chivito550

salmocab wrote: »

No but northsiders in general won’t have seen the benefits first hand and will only be hearing about the disruption slso with it being such a long term project few people will feel as strongly as the likes of us on here that are genuinely interested.

Have people not travelled to virtually every other major city in Europe though, and jumped on metros and trams to everywhere they need to go? Surely people are a bit more clued in as to how cities work.

Sam Russell

bk wrote: »

I do think some of you are taking this set back a little too far!

I don't see this having a major delay on the project at all. Seemingly they already have a plan B for a TBM site up near the airport, so it isn't a major deal.

The only question is what happens to the planned station at Na Fianna?

- Drop it completely, leaves a big gap and lots of locals pissed off at Na Fianna.
- Maybe it can be squeezed into the Homefarm pitch?

Only other options I can see all involve CPO'ing peoples homes!

They need a vent shaft every Km, soNa Fianna might not get a station - just a hole in the ground with noise coming out every few minutes as their would-be train rushes past.

salmocab

Grandeeod wrote: »

When you have concrete evidence that people around the GDA give a toss about public transport and are prepared to make it an election issue, get back to me. I spent 5 years of my life from 2003 to 2008 trying to tap into the public mindset. It was all insular and what about me crap. Nobody wanted to see the bigger picture. 15 years later I'm reading the same ****e here that I read back then on this same forum. I'm reading the same stuff in the wider media. Wash rinse repeat. The active members here have their hearts in the right place, but they are nowhere near representative of public opinion.

I won’t be getting back to you because your right but just like the luas if it’s built people will care, they will care a lot. I have friends that specifically bought near the green luas I use it on occasion and when I have to be in town I often drive to it rather than use my local bus.

Grandeeod

Chivito550 wrote: »

Have people not travelled to virtually every other major city in Europe though, and jumped on metros and trams to everywhere they need to go? Surely people are a bit more clued in as to how cities work.

Another daft assumption thats based on your own experiences perhaps. I'm in my mid 40s. I've been on metros and trams in other European cities. For what its worth I was on the London underground in the 1970s. That does not equate to wanting/demanding/expecting a similar system in Dublin because Dublin is a car dependent city. It shouldn't be, but it is and most of its citizens accept it. The opinions here are micro and thats the problem. The wider population and media don't place a real emphasis on the absolute importance of public transport in general. It is never an election/political issue except for the infantile behaviour from the political class as demonstrated by Varadker's statement today.

Marty Sergerson

What would be the problem with implementing a two-line monorail, slap it right down Dorset Street into Drumcondra over Pats College, zip around Mobhi Road, up through Ballymun down into the airport?

Similar to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiba_Urban_Monorail

Grandeeod

salmocab wrote: »

I won’t be getting back to you because your right but just like the luas if it’s built people will care, they will care a lot. I have friends that specifically bought near the green luas I use it on occasion and when I have to be in town I often drive to it rather than use my local bus.

I agree. But we cannot rely on a system of catch up. We cannot build stuff piece meal and when successful, plan something else. The luas has highlighted the core issue. Luas is actually a poor version of what we should have. The very fact that luas is jammed everyday is not proof that its a success. Its proof that Dublin needs a far better system. In 1984 DART proved the same thing and here we are years later watering it all down.

Kevtherev1

BowSideChamp wrote: »

They should bypass Glasnevin and don't build a station there. Save the project a good few €m. Honestly, if the locals want to bitch and moan about a project that will benefit them, the taxpayers should not fight them. They can get stuffed.

100 percent agree. If na fianna and locals wont budge, keep the alignment and drop the station. Let their precious kiddies and mimbys walk 15, 20 minutes along the busy main road to either the Whitworth (Glasnevin) or DCU Collins Avenue stations.

Shameful behavior from Martin and Leo, Mary Lou. Next we will have the prospect avenue pensioners moaning again about the Glasnevin Station. And the Brian Boru pub having to be demolished.

LeinsterDub

Marty Sergerson wrote: »

What would be the problem with implementing a two-track monorail, slap it right down Dorset Street into Drumcondra over Pats College, zip around Mobhi Road, up through Ballymun down into the airport?

Similar to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiba_Urban_Monorail

An Taisce for a start

Kevtherev1

Sam Russell wrote: »

They need a vent shaft every Km, soNa Fianna might not get a station - just a hole in the ground with noise coming out every few minutes as their would-be train rushes past.

Sounds perfect, it would be constant reminder what they are missing out on. A convenient station at their location.

Zebra3

I know a few people living on the route.

They do want it built but simply they don’t expect it to be built.

Anyway, push on with it and skip the station at Na Fianna. Let their whinging for a few bob go to waste.

marno21

Food for thought - was the Na Fianna plan ever a serious one? Was it all just a political charade to cause uproar and Pascal and Leo riding into town on their horses as saviours to gain political credit

It seems to me that Home Farm's pitch and area is sufficiently wide to allow a Metro station be built there without disruption to the GAA setup. You'll still have racket from the schools about it but there will be a lot less disruption from just a station being built. The TBMs can be moved to Albert College Park or possibly Northwood ?