Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

marno21

Zebra3 wrote: »

I know a few people living on the route.

They do want it built but simply they don’t expect it to be built.

Anyway, push on with it and skip the station at Na Fianna. Let theirp whinging for a few bob go to waste.

Indeed. If they have to, continue with the Metro with no station on Mobhi Road. Watch the success of the Metro bring positive benefits to the entire route except Glasnevin. The locals who missed out on rapid transit, property value increases and decreases in road congestion won't be long changing their tune

hmmm

There's parts of Dublin that would love a metro, both for convenience and the massive increase in house prices it will bring. Don't bother indulging these areas any more, shift the thing to the West or South West. The only reason for sending it North was to provide a link to the airport, and there are alternatives available in order to provide that.

LeinsterDub

hmmm wrote: »

There's parts of Dublin that would love a metro, both for convenience and the massive increase in house prices it will bring. Don't bother indulging these areas any more, shift the thing to the West or South West. The only reason for sending it North was to provide a link to the airport, and there are alternatives available in order to provide that.

I'll make sure to object to these metros so no one will have nice things :rolleyes: and its about more than the airport

salmocab

Ah in fairness one GAA club having some objections is hardly reason to make everyone in Glasnevin suffer, 6000 members lots of who probably don’t live that near is far from the majority of locals. I do think the club have legitimate reasons for not wanting to lose their grounds for years but nothing that couldn’t be sorted, I said from the start they should be looked after in both the short and long term and I still suspect that they have ideas about what they want.

salmocab

hmmm wrote: »

There's parts of Dublin that would love a metro, both for convenience and the massive increase in house prices it will bring. Don't bother indulging these areas any more, shift the thing to the West or South West. The only reason for sending it North was to provide a link to the airport, and there are alternatives available in order to provide that.

It’s sent north to service swords the airport is far less important than that

jd

marno21 wrote: »

It seems to me that Home Farm's pitch and area is sufficiently wide to allow a Metro station be built there without disruption to the GAA setup. You'll still have racket from the schools about it but there will be a lot less disruption from just a station being built. The TBMs can be moved to Albert College Park or possibly Northwood ?

This is what I'm thinking. If you look at the committee debate Home Farm seem to be positive enough about the Metrolink project. I think they'd facilitate the use of their pitch for a station box - if they were looked after. I think using the site for a TBM would be a no-no for them too.

marno21

jd wrote: »

This is what I'm thinking. If you look at the committee debate Home Farm seem to be positive enough about the Metrolink project. I think they'd facilitate the use of their pitch for a station box - if they were looked after. I think using the site for a TBM would be a no-no for them too.

I still don't understand the purpose of that Commitee meeting.

Hauling out the NTA and TII to listen to objections to an emerging preferred route during an active public consultation period. The route isn't firmly decided and anyone is free to make submissions to the project team during this period, which is ongoing.

Surprisingly, it achieved nothing except created a few Metrobashing articles in the papers. No one came out of that meeting having gained any knowledge that they couldn't find on metrolink.ie.

If Na Fianna have won here - proceed with the TBMs at an alternative site and compensate Home Farm for the use of their pitch. No disruption to Na Fianna or either of the two schools. No 110 trucks a day carrying spoil. Glasnevin, including those with no affiliation to Na Fianna, rightly get their Metro stop. The key interchange at Whitworth Road is preserved.

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

I still don't understand the purpose of that Commitee meeting.

Politicians jumping on a bandwagon. Most likely, the rest of them saw the power figures (Paschal Donohoe, John Horan) aligned against it, and decided to curry favour and "be seen to be doing something".

CreativeSen

Current phase of the process is Public Consultation.

The next phase is due to commence in Q3 2019 with the application to An Bord Pleanála.

An Bord Pleanála decision is not due until 2020.

The Taoiseachs comments, as much as I disagree with him, happened had the right time to not have a hugely significant impact on the process, its a LONG LONG process. The worrying aspect for me is that they came on the back of comments from the leaders of the two biggest opposition parties.

Lobbying goes both ways, the NIMBYs have always been proactive and loud, its time for those that are in favour of the Metro to be as vocal. We will have a general election in the next 12 months, there will be local elections in May 2019, both long before the application to An Bord Pleanála. Write your letters to your local reps, hold them to account for the development of forward looking infrastructure.

This, for me, is not about public transport and securing a quick link between Griffith Ave and the CC. It is about
- opening up huge tracts of land for much needed housing
- leveling the playing field (bad pun) and giving the same opportunity to working class neighborhoods on the north side as more affluent neighborhoods in the southside have received
- investment opportunities and future growth

This is a game changer for socioeconomic equality in Dublin.

manniot2

High fives all around for Pascal at training Saturday morning.
I know its not a good idea to turn the pitches and more importantly schools into a building site for 6 years, but for the change in strategy to come because of political nimbyism on the part of our finance minister is a sad state of affairs for the country!

Shedite27

What's the impact of not tunneling in Glasnevin? Is there an alternative site? Any idea what the extra cost and/or timeline would be??

tobsey

Shedite27 wrote: »

What's the impact of not tunneling in Glasnevin? Is there an alternative site? Any idea what the extra cost and/or timeline would be??

There is one alternative site 500m up the road in Albert College Park. The issue is that Na Fianna is to double up as a launch site and station, thereby making some savings. If the TBM launch site is Albert College they will completely dig out the ground and then completely refill it. Na Fianna could still be used for a station but with less impact during construction. A much smaller site would be needed and they'd probably only lose the main pitch while keeping the all-weathers and the clubhouse in full use.

Some would see it as a waste of money to launch the TBMs at a site that's not going to be used as a station. However Albert College is without doubt a better site for the large TBM launch site. It's further away from the surrounding buildings, only part of the park would be needed, and it fronts onto a massive 6-lane dual carraigeway. Na Fianna has houses across the road and at one end, two schools behind, and is a narrow three lane road on a reasonable steep incline.

I'd be interested to know the cost differential between launching at a station site and launching elsewhere. I suspect it would be very marginal given the overall budget for the project.

DublinOnTrack

Hi guys,

I've been following this thread for some time now and have seen the calls to start some sort of campaign or group to counter the misinformation and negative portrayal of MetroLink in the Irish media which has spread to the general public. Countless posters are right in saying that once the metro is up and running everyone will love it and want their own one. Well my worry is that this first metro might never be up and running. People just don't seem to grasp how important it is, economically and socially. Some of these details are within the report published by MetroLinks but 326 page documents are inaccessible to most of the population. Our elected officials are meant to summarise these reports to the public in a way everyone can understand the advantages MetroLinks can bring to the city. However I'm sure we all realise that this isn't really happening.

The Na Fianna issue is only the first hurdle and it appears the project is already stumbling to get over that, so now it looks like it has to go around. Thanks to public pressure there will surely be many more issues like this and if MetroLink keeps going around the issue then we may either end up with a line that is unfit for purpose or no line at all. It is for these reasons that I have decided to kickstart a campaign for like minded people and experts who understand the importance of this project for Dublin and Ireland as a whole. It is not just a ‘line to the airport’. But a vital artery through our city and one if built will influence more like it, completely revolutionising our city into the modern, sustainable and prosperous city that Dublin can be.

So I ask all of you to first follow our twitter page at DublinOnTrack (cant post links yet)

I have also seen numerous arguments here discussing the advantages of metro, I ask people to please email some of these on to dublinontrack at gmail.com (cant post links yet) where we can start contributing to the debate with these articles and opinion pieces, firstly via our social media accounts and at a later stage with a website.

Thanks for reading and all feedback is more than welcome

CatInABox

Not sure who posted it, but the current alternate plan didn't involve Albert College Park at all, and was focused more on a site near the airport. It was a post from someone that went to one of the earlier meetings on it.

I think it also had some impact on the type of tunneling involved as well, but I might be missing remembering that.

marno21

CatInABox wrote: »

Not sure who posted it, but the current alternate plan didn't involve Albert College Park at all, and was focused more on a site near the airport. It was a post from someone that went to one of the earlier meetings on it.

I think it also had some impact on the type of tunneling involved as well, but I might be missing remembering that.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106746958

pmcc1

DUBLIN ON TRACK
Hi guys,

I've been following this thread for some time now and have seen the calls to start some sort of campaign or group to counter the misinformation and negative portrayal of MetroLink in the Irish media which has spread to the general public. Countless posters are right in saying that once the metro is up and running everyone will love it and want their own one. Well my worry is that this first metro might never be up and running. People just don't seem to grasp how important it is, economically and socially. Some of these details are within the report published by MetroLinks but 326 page documents are inaccessible to most of the population. Our elected officials are meant to summarise these reports to the public in a way everyone can understand the advantages MetroLinks can bring to the city. However I'm sure we all realise that this isn't really happening.

The Na Fianna issue is only the first hurdle and it appears the project is already stumbling to get over that, so now it looks like it has to go around. Thanks to public pressure there will surely be many more issues like this and if MetroLink keeps going around the issue then we may either end up with a line that is unfit for purpose or no line at all. It is for these reasons that I have decided to kickstart a campaign for like minded people and experts who understand the importance of this project for Dublin and Ireland as a whole. It is not just a ‘line to the airport’. But a vital artery through our city and one if built will influence more like it, completely revolutionising our city into the modern, sustainable and prosperous city that Dublin can be.

So I ask all of you to first follow our twitter page at DublinOnTrack (cant post links yet)

I have also seen numerous arguments here discussing the advantages of metro, I ask people to please email some of these on to dublinontrack at gmail.com (cant post links yet) where we can start contributing to the debate with these articles and opinion pieces, firstly via our social media accounts and at a later stage with a website.

Thanks for reading and all feedback is more than welcome

Good for you. I recommend you send a paragraph (perhaps on the Na Fianna debacle) and a good graphic to the ever-worthy Broadsheet-dot-ie who would likely cover your sensible campaign.

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106746958

That's the one. I think there's another post with some talk of the type of tunnel that this would mean, but I can't search for it on mobile.

stimpson

tobsey wrote: »

There is one alternative site 500m up the road in Albert College Park. The issue is that Na Fianna is to double up as a launch site and station, thereby making some savings. If the TBM launch site is Albert College they will completely dig out the ground and then completely refill it. Na Fianna could still be used for a station but with less impact during construction. A much smaller site would be needed and they'd probably only lose the main pitch while keeping the all-weathers and the clubhouse in full use.

Some would see it as a waste of money to launch the TBMs at a site that's not going to be used as a station. However Albert College is without doubt a better site for the large TBM launch site. It's further away from the surrounding buildings, only part of the park would be needed, and it fronts onto a massive 6-lane dual carraigeway. Na Fianna has houses across the road and at one end, two schools behind, and is a narrow three lane road on a reasonable steep incline.

I'd be interested to know the cost differential between launching at a station site and launching elsewhere. I suspect it would be very marginal given the overall budget for the project.

And what about the users of Albert College Park? Where do we put the site when they complain? If we keep pandering to vested interests then nothing will ever be built.

The site should be chosen on its merits and the interests of a private club should be way down the list of concerns.

marno21

stimpson wrote: »

And what about the users of Albert College Park? Where do we put the site when they complain? If we keep pandering to vested interests then nothing will ever be built.

The site should be chosen on its merits and the interests of a private club should be way down the list of concerns.

It was down the list of concerns until political interference came about and changed that.

LeinsterDub

stimpson wrote: »

And what about the users of Albert College Park? Where do we put the site when they complain? If we keep pandering to vested interests then nothing will ever be built.

The site should be chosen on its merits and the interests of a private club should be way down the list of concerns.

The complaints from Albert College Park would be most likely a disorganized rabble as opposed to the united (peoples) front (of) Na Fianna

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The complaints from Albert College Park would be most likely a disorganized rabble as opposed to the united (peoples) front (of) Na Fianna

Indeed. The Mobhi Road site has Na Fianna (Dublin GAA) + Scoil Mobhi + Scoil Caitriona + Home Farm although it's not their main site and they seem willing to bargain.

Albert College Park got approved the last time I don't see what's changed

specialbyte

Given there is such a strong uniter front of politicians from all sides against locating the TBM site at the Na Fianna grounds I'd be very surprised if after the public consultation the TBM site doesn't get moved to Northwoods. (I'd be surprised if the station at Na Fianna gets moved though) There are only two advantages to choosing the Na Fianna grounds: you don't need to CPO anyone's house and if you're tunnelling from north of the Airport to Charlemont then Na Fianna's grounds are roughly half way along the route which allows you to start 4 TBMs off at the same time, each doing about 1/4 of the job. So you probably get shorter tunnelling time, and TBMs are not exactly quick. Estimates vary but think 30m on average a day with 24 hour tunnelling is a good pace. A full tunnel from north of the airport to Charlemount is roughly 13km.

There are some many disadvantages to Na Fianna being the choice location that aren't related to the club or the schools or the politics. Access is a huge one, there's a lot of spoil to move out and concrete ring panels to move in. The other is the number of residents around. The potential Northwoods location is either mostly vacant or surrounded by commerical buildings or warehouses. The road network at Northwoods is also high-quality with easy access to the motorway.

The other thing worth considering is how the metro options affect future development of housing/towns. With the depot at Swords you in theory use up land that could be prime potential for a new urban centre with a large metro depot. With the depot at Daridstown the depot is on land right beside the airport. Most of that land is banned from substantial development by Fingal CoCo because it is within the airport safety zone and the airport noise impact zones. It's not appropriate for residential development, which is why there are lots of playing fields and warehouses there right now. Since there are strong rumours that metro north was given capital funding ahead of DART Underground because the metro helps "solve the housing crisis" and DART Underground does not (that and the Dept of Transport doesn't like IR). Strengthening the case that metro is opening up lots of land for development could be useful for the project team.

Kevtherev1

I have just seen a article in dublin people published april 30th 2018.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/southside/articles/2018/04/30/4155377-local-councillors-want-southside-metrolink-moved/

Councillors on the southside of Dublin calling for metrolink to be diverted south west through Terenure, Rathfarnham, Ballyboden and onwards to Sandyford, where they say there is a public transport blackspot through some parts of the county.

Talk about delusional but i am amazed they even called and voted for it. It was a sinn fein counciler Sarah Holland who is trying to make noise with this proposal. What they say is true but a complete non runner these days due to cost.

monument

@specialbyte most people don’t seem to have much or any issue with Albert College Park. It’s only about 1km north of the GAA club, wider road, and larger, less confined site.

LXFlyer

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

I have just seen a article in dublin people published april 30th 2018.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/southside/articles/2018/04/30/4155377-local-councillors-want-southside-metrolink-moved/

Councillors on the southside of Dublin calling for metrolink to be diverted south west through Terenure, Rathfarnham, Ballyboden and onwards to Sandyford, where they say there is a public transport blackspot through some parts of the county.

Talk about delusional but i am amazed they even called and voted for it. It was a sinn fein counciler Sarah Holland who is trying to make noise with this proposal. What they say is true but a complete non runner these days due to cost.

There is a real problem there though that isn’t being addressed. She has a point.

Bus journey times at peak can be up to 90 minutes to/from city centre. That’s not really sustainable.

Writing her off as delusional isn’t a solution.

marno21

The Dublin South West issue is one of the clsssic objectionary arguments in Ireland. Because that area is neglected doesn't mean Metrolink shouldn't go ahead, it just means there needs to be further investment in other areas, which is hopefully forthcoming

Kevtherev1

LXFlyer wrote: »

There is a real problem there though that isn’t being addressed. She has a point.

Bus journey times at peak can be up to 90 minutes to/from city centre. That’s not really sustainable.

Writing her off as delusional isn’t a solution.

What they say is true a south west rail link is badly needed. NTA and government have set in stone that the south luas green line to sandyford be upgraded to metro first.

I meant it delusion that those Councillors think there is a chance to change that decision. But fair play to them for saying it. Sure they have again highlighted publicly the need for a south west rail link

salmocab

I live on that south west corridor and whilst there is an obvious need for something to be done it won’t be this time and it’s just councilors making some noise, I have 2 young children who I would hope might benefit from a south west metro in the future but I know it won’t ever be of real benefit to me.

specialbyte

monument wrote: »

@specialbyte most people don’t seem to have much or any issue with Albert College Park. It’s only about 1km north of the GAA club, wider road, and larger, less confined site.

I'd surprised if they choose it just for the tunnel boring site. Last time with Metro North it made sense because there was also a station there. They'll have some difficultly when doing the EIAR (Environmental Impact Assessment Report) for the Railway Order. Why did they are choose to knock down trees and dig up a park. What other alternatives are there that they could have chosen but weren't for reason X is a required part of any EIAR.

tom1ie

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

I have just seen a article in dublin people published april 30th 2018.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/southside/articles/2018/04/30/4155377-local-councillors-want-southside-metrolink-moved/

Councillors on the southside of Dublin calling for metrolink to be diverted south west through Terenure, Rathfarnham, Ballyboden and onwards to Sandyford, where they say there is a public transport blackspot through some parts of the county.

Talk about delusional but i am amazed they even called and voted for it. It was a sinn fein counciler Sarah Holland who is trying to make noise with this proposal. What they say is true but a complete non runner these days due to cost.

Just on this point, the south west corridor is badly in need of a metro.
How much is the planned cost of the current route from swords to charlemount, not including the tie in per km?
From charlemount Luas stop, where the tie in is due to occur, to the firehouse over bridge junction is 7.3km as the crow flies on google maps.
The reason I pick firehouse is there’s loads of green space near stocking lane that a p+r can be built with direct access from m50 via the firehouse exit. This would serve a lot of northbound traffic, and in tandem with the p+r at swords alleviate m50 traffic problems to a large degree.
What are the distances between stops on the proposed swords to charlemount route? From Collins avenue to Griffith avenue seems to be about 1.5km.
So on the route from charlemount to firehouse that’s 7.3/1.5= approx 5 stops.
So you’d have charlemount as an interchange for Luas Green Line from sandyford who could change to metro and go north towards swords via cc or south towards firehouse via Harold’s x, there nurse, rathfarnham, then get bus connects to Tallaght.
But you’d have a massive area of Dublin south west with access to cc, airport and swords, but also dundrum and sandyford via charlemount.
Then eventually the 300m could be found to upgrade charlemount to sandyford (or indeed brides glen once cherrywood is up and running) to metro standard.