Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

marno21

The funding available for Metrolink is not sufficient for another 7km of tunnel to SW Dublin

The only Metro projects in the 2016-2035 Greater Dublin Area transport plan are Metro North and Metro South

It's not happening so there is no point in further discussion. Zero chance.

salmocab

tom1ie wrote: »

Just on this point, the south west corridor is badly in need of a metro.
How much is the planned cost of the current route from swords to charlemount, not including the tie in per km?
From charlemount Luas stop, where the tie in is due to occur, to the firehouse over bridge junction is 7.3km as the crow flies on google maps.
The reason I pick firehouse is there’s loads of green space near stocking lane that a p+r can be built with direct access from m50 via the firehouse exit. This would serve a lot of northbound traffic, and in tandem with the p+r at swords alleviate m50 traffic problems to a large degree.
What are the distances between stops on the proposed swords to charlemount route? From Collins avenue to Griffith avenue seems to be about 1.5km.
So on the route from charlemount to firehouse that’s 7.3/1.5= approx 5 stops.
So you’d have charlemount as an interchange for Luas Green Line from sandyford who could change to metro and go north towards swords via cc or south towards firehouse via Harold’s x, there nurse, rathfarnham, then get bus connects to Tallaght.
But you’d have a massive area of Dublin south west with access to cc, airport and swords, but also dundrum and sandyford via charlemount.
Then eventually the 300m could be found to upgrade charlemount to sandyford (or indeed brides glen once cherrywood is up and running) to metro standard.

Can’t really have s metro just to charlemont though that would be a waste it has to go somewhere and it would really have to go through the city and on out somewhere else

bk

Grandeeod wrote: »

You stick to your script BK and I'll stick to mine. But promise me that you will stick around when this all goes tits up. I promise to stick around and own up if it doesn't.

Come on, that sucks, what a terrible attitude!

I hope you are wrong, for the benefit of all people living in Dublin, very, VERY wrong.

Grandeeod wrote: »

Nobody local to the Na Fianna site cares about a metro. That's your assumption.

No assumption, I'm a local to Na Fianna myself! I've been asking around and all the locals are super pissed at Na Fianna. Na Fianna doesn't have a good relationship with the locals around it at all.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

They should bypass Glasnevin and don't build a station there. Save the project a good few €m. Honestly, if the locals want to bitch and moan about a project that will benefit them, the taxpayers should not fight them. They can get stuffed.

As I mention above, please don't include all the locals with Na Fianna. Most locals are very much in favour of it and don't like Na Fianna at all, but they aren't well connected like them so they don't get their voice heard.

specialbyte wrote: »

The other thing worth considering is how the metro options affect future development of housing/towns. With the depot at Swords you in theory use up land that could be prime potential for a new urban centre with a large metro depot. With the depot at Daridstown the depot is on land right beside the airport. Most of that land is banned from substantial development by Fingal CoCo because it is within the airport safety zone and the airport noise impact zones. It's not appropriate for residential development, which is why there are lots of playing fields and warehouses there right now. Since there are strong rumours that metro north was given capital funding ahead of DART Underground because the metro helps "solve the housing crisis" and DART Underground does not (that and the Dept of Transport doesn't like IR). Strengthening the case that metro is opening up lots of land for development could be useful for the project team.

Excellent points, the area around the Airport would certainly make for a much better location for the TBM and depot sites.

monument wrote: »

@specialbyte most people don’t seem to have much or any issue with Albert College Park. It’s only about 1km north of the GAA club, wider road, and larger, less confined site.

I honestly don't know why you think ACP is less controversial then Na Fianna!

What about the two soccer clubs (+ Na Fianna themselves) that use the pitches on ACP?

Do you think soccer clubs are less important then a GAA club?

What about all the locals who use ACP almost every day as it is a public park? Versus a private club that they don't have access to?

What about the disturbance to all the students at DCU right next to it?

Don't get me wrong, if using ACP is what it takes to get this done, then fine. But I honestly see losing ACP as being a much greater temporary lose to the community then Na Fianna is.

specialbyte

bk wrote: »

No assumption, I'm a local to Na Fianna myself! I've been asking around and all the locals are super pissed at Na Fianna. Na Fianna doesn't have a good relationship with the locals around it at all.

[...]

As I mention above, please don't include all the locals with Na Fianna. Most locals are very much in favour of it and don't like Na Fianna at all, but they aren't well connected like them so they don't get their voice heard.

It would be great to see some locals get a little organised then so that their voice can be heard. Na Fianna have an advantage right now because they are an organised club. If the locals up and down the proposed metro line want to see this metro built then they need to get out there and say. Otherwise the public consultation will be filled with only those who are against the plan.

TII haven't done a great job explaining the benefits of the metro. All I've seen in the press are the negatives like CPO'ing house, temporarily CPO'ing Na Fianna and the distribution around there. A group that reminds everyone of the benefits and wants to mitigate the downsides is probably what's needed. Otherwise many of the cynics in this thread will be right and see what they saw last time we tried to build a metro. Nothing.

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

Come on, that sucks, what a terrible attitude!

I hope you are wrong, for the benefit of all people living in Dublin, very, VERY wrong.

It's not a terrible attitude. It's the reality of where we are, based on what has gone before. You are all positive. I'm all negative and I'm simply saying I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong if this current plan starts construction.

I actually hope I'm wrong. I'm not being negative because I'm some old fart trying to piss on peoples picnic. I have frequently explained why I'm negative and it's based on facts.

roadmaster

As I mention above, please don't include all the locals with Na Fianna. Most locals are very much in favour of it and don't like Na Fianna at all, but they aren't well connected like them so they don't get their voice heard.

If this is the case as you say about the local view , if the number thrown around off 3000 members of Na Fianna are they not from the area? I am sure the club are being used by locals as an avenue to express there concerns.

Not being from the area the one thing i am confused about is if locals are not aligned with Na Fianna and are very pro metro why are all the political reps putting there heads on the blocks about moving the location of the works area. Surely there are only doing this as they believe its the right way to the voters heart in the area. As at the end of the end of the day they just want to get reelected

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

As I mention above, please don't include all the locals with Na Fianna. Most locals are very much in favour of it and don't like Na Fianna at all, but they aren't well connected like them so they don't get their voice heard.

If this is the case as you say about the local view , if the number thrown around off 3000 members of Na Fianna are they not from the area? I am sure the club are being used by locals as an avenue to express there concerns.

Not being from the area the one thing i am confused about is if locals are not aligned with Na Fianna and are very pro metro why are all the political reps putting there heads on the blocks about checking the location of the works area. Surely there are only doing this as they believe its the right way to the voters heart in the area

1. Most people who aren't members of Na Fianna would have no objection to the Metro. Na Fianna are pro-Metro, just not pro-TBM on Mobhi Road. Na Fianna are just defending their interests
2. Na Fianna are making quite the racket on this issue. I've heard no pro-Metro groups coming out defending the scheme. It's the usual anti-Metro racket from the economists (McCarthy/Barrett/McDowell), people who will be impacted by the scheme (Na Fianna/Home Farm/2 Mobhi Road schools)

Bar the economists, almost all of the objections so far have been about the placing of a TBM launch site on Mobhi Road, aside from the Glasnevin Residents Group who want the alignment changed to Drumcondra because of "trains running under their houses every 2 minutes">

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

1. Most people who aren't members of Na Fianna would have no objection to the Metro. Na Fianna are pro-Metro, just not pro-TBM on Mobhi Road. Na Fianna are just defending their interests
2. Na Fianna are making quite the racket on this issue. I've heard no pro-Metro groups coming out defending the scheme. It's the usual anti-Metro racket from the economists (McCarthy/Barrett/McDowell), people who will be impacted by the scheme (Na Fianna/Home Farm/2 Mobhi Road schools)

Bar the economists, almost all of the objections so far have been about the placing of a TBM launch site on Mobhi Road, aside from the Glasnevin Residents Group who want the alignment changed to Drumcondra because of "trains running under their houses every 2 minutes">

I think your post yesterday about leo and pascal could have a lot of truth in it

BonnieSituation

On the outer ring Road this evening, traffic is backed up northbound from Grange castle to the n4. Not moving at all.

That traffic passes an unopened railway station at Kishoge.

How anyone doesn't think that we are crying out for public transport provision and that Road use isn't bursting at the seams is beyond mé

Na Fianna's objections have a certain merit but they need to be sat down and walked through EVERYTHING with the experts and not at public fora with a load of Helen Lovejoys.

tom1ie

salmocab wrote: »

Can’t really have s metro just to charlemont though that would be a waste it has to go somewhere and it would really have to go through the city and on out somewhere else

It would go on to cc airport and swords. The charlemount station would be the interchange for the Luas Green Line to brides glen, which can eventually be upgraded to metro.
What I’m saying is buil Metrolink but DONT tie into existing green line, instead have a metro/Luas interchange at charlemount, then run the tunnel south west to the above mentioned areas.
First step is to work out how much Metrolink is costing per km, not including the charlemount tie in, then multiply that figure by approx 7.5km to get to stocking lane in firehouse.

marno21

tom1ie wrote: »

It would go on to cc airport and swords. The charlemount station would be the interchange for the Luas Green Line to brides glen, which can eventually be upgraded to metro.
What I’m saying is buil Metrolink but DONT tie into existing green line, instead have a metro/Luas interchange at charlemount, then run the tunnel south west to the above mentioned areas.
First step is to work out how much Metrolink is costing per km, not including the charlemount tie in, then multiply that figure by approx 7.5km to get to stocking lane in firehouse.

You are talking approx 1bn extra to do Charlemont-Firhouse. The money isn't there no matter how many times its said Dublin SW needs a Metro line, nor is it policy to build a Metro to SW Dublin before 2035.

No further talk of a SW Dublin line in this thread unless concrete evidence of it being considered comes about. A new thread is the place for this discussion. Anyone with sufficient interest is free to start one.

LongboardPro

specialbyte wrote: »

The other thing worth considering is how the metro options affect future development of housing/towns. With the depot at Swords you in theory use up land that could be prime potential for a new urban centre with a large metro depot. With the depot at Daridstown the depot is on land right beside the airport. Most of that land is banned from substantial development by Fingal CoCo because it is within the airport safety zone and the airport noise impact zones. It's not appropriate for residential development...

You make an excellent point with this. This should something that is discussed more.

tom1ie

marno21 wrote: »

You are talking approx 1bn extra to do Charlemont-Firhouse. The money isn't there no matter how many times its said Dublin SW needs a Metro line, nor is it policy to build a Metro to SW Dublin before 2035.

No further talk of a SW Dublin line in this thread unless concrete evidence of it being considered comes about. A new thread is the place for this discussion. Anyone with sufficient interest is free to start one.

Hold on a sec.
a previous poster mentioned the sin rein councilor putting forward a motion for a metro line that would serve Dublin sw and solve the problem of closing the green line for a prolonged period during the tie in at charlemount.
This has everything to do with Metrolink so get off your high horse there.
If the people in the nta get enough political pressure anything can be accomplished especially if it will win votes in the Dublin sw area.
You say an extra 1 billion in construction costs. Ow long is construction due to last? 6 years?
That’s 167 million extra in construction costs a year.

Sam Russell

Mod: This thread is for discussing the published Metrolink proposal.

There is a thread for discussing other Metro/Luas possible routes.

Further discussion here off topic such as metro going South West will be deleted.

I hope that is clear. No high horse was hurt in this posting .

antoinolachtnai

The problem with this is that it doesn’t solve the problem of the Green Line.

As things stand, the Green Line will run out of capacity within a few years.

Upgrading it to Metro solves this problem for a relatively low cost.

CatInABox

Seriously folks, get this one built first, others will follow within a few years of it opening.

Sam Russell

Mod: Off topic posts deleted. Further off topic posts will earn time for reflection. Post in the correct thread for other metro/luas lines-

LongboardPro

There's no need to censor posts. This talk is still relevant to the overall project.

tom1ie

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Off topic posts deleted. Further off topic posts will earn time for reflection. Post in the correct thread for other metro/luas lines-

Apologies for offending anyone in this forum with my radical ideas!:pac:
I have posted in the appropriate forum so please feel free to point and laugh and poke holes in my ideas. Thanks

Sam Russell

LongboardPro wrote: »

There's no need to censor posts. This talk is still relevant to the overall project.

There is no intention to censor anyone. The intention is to keep threads orderly, otherwise posters following the appropriate thread miss out. It is not hard to keep to the rules - read the charter.

That applies to backseat modding as well. If you have trouble with a post, report it - particularly if it is a mod instruction that is causing . Even more so if the mod instruction has had to be repeated.

yer man!

I would love if Newstalk for example would balance their interviews on Metrolink. Constantly they bash the scheme and get people connected to NaFianna or schools in the area to justify their stance.

Listening to the show this morning made me rage when they said by this going ahead na Fianna would be no more and Glasnevin would descent to decript lawless area of the city as kids would have nothing to do.

Also mentioned that engineers or planners know absolutely nothing and that they weren't nimbyists but they just didn't want it there...

Where is TII!! They need to release a video pronto showing the whole scheme. Plaster it all over the place.

salmocab

There really needs to be a big push showing the benefits long term and what the short term losses will be, although I suppose until the details are nailed it would be difficult to give any specifics.

Grandeeod

yer man! wrote: »

I would love if Newstalk for example would balance their interviews on Metrolink. Constantly they bash the scheme and get people connected to NaFianna or schools in the area to justify their stance.

Listening to the show this morning made me rage when they said by this going ahead na Fianna would be no more and Glasnevin would descent to decript lawless area of the city as kids would have nothing to do.

Also mentioned that engineers or planners know absolutely nothing and that they weren't nimbyists but they just didn't want it there...

Where is TII!! They need to release a video pronto showing the whole scheme. Plaster it all over the place.

Thankfully there was a post earlier suggesting that a pro metrolink group was being established to counter all the crap. I really hope it happens and grounds itself in reality and not just the optics of what politicians are telling us we will have.

piuswal

manniot2 wrote: »

High fives all around for Pascal at training Saturday morning.
I know its not a good idea to turn the pitches and more importantly schools into a building site for 6 years, but for the change in strategy to come because of political nimbyism on the part of our finance minister is a sad state of affairs for the country!

I happened to hear Min Finance speak twice on the topic and he went to great pains to explain, on both occasions, how the process worked and how he was restricted from becoming involved etc.

The main problem with Na Fianna was the use as a TBM site which meant a large surface area being affected, being used from the start to end of the project - the longest duration of the whole project , the adjacent schools etc.

Has anyone really looked at a map of the area to visualise what alternatives there are between the Glasnevin, top of Whitworth Rd and the DCU/Connins Ave stop?

The present plan takes out Des Kellys the Brian Boru, the block of 6 offices in between and at least one block of Apts at Dalcassian Downs.

There is lots of space between the Tolka House and the Mary Aylward Centre, is that not an option?

CatInABox

piuswal wrote: »

I happened to hear Min Finance speak twice on the topic and he went to great pains to explain, on both occasions, how the process worked and how he was restricted from becoming involved etc.

The main problem with Na Fianna was the use as a TBM site which meant a large surface area being affected, being used from the start to end of the project - the longest duration of the whole project , the adjacent schools etc.

Has anyone really looked at a map of the area to visualise what alternatives there are between the Glasnevin, top of Whitworth Rd and the DCU/Connins Ave stop?

The present plan takes out Des Kellys the Brian Boru, the block of 6 offices in between and at least one block of Apts at Dalcassian Downs.

There is lots of space between the Tolka House and the Mary Aylward Centre, is that not an option?

The station site at Whitworth Road can't move at all really, moving it away from the tracks will mean no interchange, which makes no sense at all.

The Mobhi Rd Station site can move, but moving it over towards Tolka house will mean the route goes close/under a section of Glasnevin Cemetery. I know others don't think it'll be a problem, but I can see major objections over it, along the lines of "disturbing our fallen 1916 heroes", etc. Most likely, they'd build a station on the Home Farm pitches, as Home Farm seem more amenable.

The Mobhi Rd TBM site will almost certainly move, there's too many valid objections to putting it there.

The Collins Ave Station could move, perhaps down to Albert College Park pitches, but that moves it further away from the ability to do easy bus interchanges on Collins Ave.

Realistically, moving the tunnel east or west is a no go, it'd be more expensive to tunnel under buildings, with more objections, than tunnelling under the road.

Pixel Eater

Grandeeod wrote: »

Thankfully there was a post earlier suggesting that a pro metrolink group was being established to counter all the crap. I really hope it happens and grounds itself in reality and not just the optics of what politicians are telling us we will have.

Hopefully that will happen. I've been thinking about this for a while actually; there is a myriad of protest groups around, there really should be a pro-development group of some sort that would promote positive construction within the city. I guess there is YIMBY Dublin, but that just seems to be a FB page, as far as I can make out.

Zebra3

Any Dublin business group worth its salt should be pushing this.

DublinOnTrack

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Hopefully that will happen. I've been thinking about this for a while actually; there is a myriad of protest groups around, there really should be a pro-development group of some sort that would promote positive construction within the city. I guess there is YIMBY Dublin, but that just seems to be a FB page, as far as I can make out.

Hi guys, we set the ball rolling on this yesterday with the launch of our twitter page at Dublin On Track, already we have engaged with a Cllr on the current discourse around the project. This is just our first step, we will be writing to all the main media outlets trying to get our name out and what we stand for. The next stage will also be the development of a website. The overall idea is to get information out there to challenge the various protest groups popping up across Dublin such as cancelmetrolink.ie.

We aim to do this through well-written pieces discussing the multiple advantages the metrolink in its current form can have for the city and the country. We encourage anyone who would like to contribute to send on any opinion or thoughts on the matter to our twitter page or dublinontrackatgmail.com.

This is just the start and to be honest we were frankly amazed there wasnt a group or campaign set up already. I know in the past Platform 11 was active but since they've morphed into Rail Users Ireland they have faded away, so once again I hope people get on board with the campaign and we can get some reasoned debate going in the media and general public.

BonnieSituation

DublinOnTrack wrote: »

Hi guys, we set the ball rolling on this yesterday with the launch of our twitter page at Dublin On Track, already we have engaged with a Cllr on the current discourse around the project. This is just our first step, we will be writing to all the main media outlets trying to get our name out and what we stand for. The next stage will also be the development of a website. The overall idea is to get information out there to challenge the various protest groups popping up across Dublin such as cancelmetrolink.ie.

We aim to do this through well-written pieces discussing the multiple advantages the metrolink in its current form can have for the city and the country. We encourage anyone who would like to contribute to send on any opinion or thoughts on the matter to our twitter page or dublinontrackatgmail.com.

This is just the start and to be honest we were frankly amazed there wasnt a group or campaign set up already. I know in the past Platform 11 was active but since they've morphed into Rail Users Ireland they have faded away, so once again I hope people get on board with the campaign and we can get some reasoned debate going in the media and general public.

Followed you on twitter yesterday. I will be more than glad to help in anyway I can.

Also, if you have links to the various protest groups it would be an idea to throw them in here as well. I didn't know about cancelmetrolink.ie I and have just emailed them looking for more information about their opposition. One must engage.

Also pour vous: dublinontrack@gmail.com

jd

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Followed you on twitter yesterday. I will be more than glad to help in anyway I can.

Also, if you have links to the various protest groups it would be an idea to throw them in here as well. I didn't know about cancelmetrolink.ie I and have just emailed them looking for more information about their opposition. One must engage.

Also pour vous: dublinontrack@gmail.com

Cancelmetrolink is Cormac McKay (Direct Democracy Ireland). He thinks metrolink is obsolete as we will be commuting using flying cars it the future.