Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

TheMightyI

specialbyte wrote: »

Yeah the author is trying hard aren't they? All the Chamber want to see is better integration between the metro station and the two terminals. By international standards the metro station isn't that far away from the two terminals. It's about 200m from the front of both terminals, which is a 2-3 minute walk. Right now from the engineering drawings the pedestrian route from the station box to the airport terminals isn't great. But that is not the job of the MetroLink project. That's the job of DAA. I suspect that DAA will build an above ground walkway similar to what is outside T2 to link both terminals to the metro station.

If there was a high quality segregated walkway either above ground or below ground from the metro station to the terminals I suspect the Chamber would be very happy.

I read the Chamber submission last week and that's more or less what they say - basically that if the stop isn't directly under or next to the terminals, they need to make sure there's a high quality covered walkway of some sort. Common sense really! But then again, this is Ireland...

LeinsterDub

Any idea why there are TII staff taking measurements on SSG west for the last week. I assume ML but surely they should know this particular site down to the last peddle at this stage?

marno21

Bray Head wrote: »

Sean O'Rourke had a 19-minute discussion on traffic congestion on the M50 yesterday. 

Busconnects and cycle lanes did get a mention, but not one contributor said anything about the biggest planned public transport project in Dublin: Metrolink!

Listened to that there. We really need to go beyond any further entertaining of any sort of notion regarding adding lanes to the M50 or widening the M50. This isn't the 1960s. It's fairly well established that it would be a fruitless exercise. The M50 widening was completed in 2010 when we had 15% unemployment and mass immigration in the middle of a massive recession, and 8 years later traffic volumes have grown by 70% and it's already overcapacity. In addition, the surrounding roads (M1, N3, N4, N7, M11) can't take any further traffic

It's very disappointing that Metrolink wasn't mentioned, as one of the predominant issues with the M50 is the flow from the M1 to the southern city business parks (traffic exiting between J13 and J16) that is really quite low hanging fruit for Metrolink. A seamless journey from Swords to Sandyford in 50 mins is much better than the M50 equivalent horror show

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Any idea why there are TII staff taking measurements on SSG west for the last week. I assume ML but surely they should know this particular site down to the last peddle at this stage?

This definitely had nothing to do with Luas Cross City?

Bray Head

marno21 wrote: »

Listened to that there. We really need to go beyond any further entertaining of any sort of notion regarding adding lanes to the M50 or widening the M50. This isn't the 1960s. I

The logical alternative - peak flow tolling - was also rejected by all the panelists. Sometimes I think we get the policy we deserve!

Sam Russell

I think one of the descriptions of adding lanes to the M50 was that it was like solving an obese persons problems by suggesting they keep on getting bigger trousers.

Metrolink should be seen as the first underground railway, followed by DU and the Metro II. With proper connections (bus, Luas, Dart, Dat Expansion, and Commuter), it should be easy to get around Dublin using PT.

Bray Head

Bray Head wrote: »

The logical alternative - peak flow tolling - was also rejected by all the panelists. Sometimes I think we get the policy we deserve!

Peak flow tolling is not logical in a Dublin context.

A) M50 is an orbital route
Public transport in Dublin (by and large) does not serve orbital journeys, or indeed any journey that isn't 'Suburb <> City Centre'
C) Tolling the M50 will only shift some small congestion to local roads that are already congested, further damaging public transport as a feasible option
D) It's unlikely to actually reduce M50 usage during peak times so will just serve as an added stealth tax on Dublin workers


If there is a Metrolink, a network of BRTs and the new and improved orbital Busconnects routes, tolling the M50 may then represent a logical option. Suggesting that anything about it is logical now is rather laughable though! Tolling works by shifting demand, there is no where or way to shift demand to from the M50 by a meaningful amount.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

Peak flow tolling is not logical in a Dublin context.

A) M50 is a radial route
Public transport in Dublin (by and large) does not serve radial journeys, or indeed any journey that isn't 'Suburb <> City Centre'
C) Tolling the M50 will only shift some small congestion to local roads that are already congested, further damaging public transport as a feasible option
D) It's unlikely to actually reduce M50 usage during peak times so will just serve as an added stealth tax on Dublin workers


If there is a Metrolink, a network of BRTs and the new and improved radial Busconnects routes, tolling the M50 may then represent a logical option. Suggesting that anything about it is logical now is rather laughable though! Tolling works by shifting demand, there is no where or way to shift demand to from the M50 by a meaningful amount.

I think you mean orbital rather than radial.

The first step will probably variable speed limits with average speed detection using ANPR cameras. These can then be turned to toll collections. We are a long way from tolls.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think you mean orbital rather than radial.

The first step will probably variable speed limits with average speed detection using ANPR cameras. These can then be turned to toll collections. We are a long way from tolls.

I did! Thanks.

Variable speed limits are absolutely the next step, there's plenty of evidence that ~80km/h is the optimal speed limit for maximising road capacity.

marno21

The M50 was built for traffic getting around Dublin, including quite a lot of HGVs and buses. It wasn't built for people to drive from Tallaght to Sandyford. The section between the N7 and M1 is also an EU TEN-T core route so if it dips below a certain level of service it will become an issue. I will admit I am not fully informed regarding what level of service is required.

LeinsterDub

marno21 wrote: »

This definitely had nothing to do with Luas Cross City?

The LCC construction is completed is it not?

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

The M50 was built for traffic getting around Dublin, including quite a lot of HGVs and buses. It wasn't built for people to drive from Tallaght to Sandyford. The section between the N7 and M1 is also an EU TEN-T core route so if it dips below a certain level of service it will become an issue. I will admit I am not fully informed regarding what level of service is required.

I don't really understand what the relevance of designers 30-40 years ago has to do with how the M50 operates now.

Most roads were built for reasons that are not the reasons they are used for now. Do you believe that roads that were built for horse/foot traffic should ignore the needs of motor vehicles or cyclists because that's not why they were built?

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really understand what the relevance of designers 30-40 years ago has to do with how the M50 operates now.

Most roads were built for reasons that are not the reasons they are used for now. Do you believe that roads that were built for horse/foot traffic should ignore the needs of motor vehicles or cyclists because that's not why they were built?

The M50 is still expected to perform the role of a strategic route for freight from Dublin Port to the M7, along with other uses. It's one of the TEN-T core routes (in addition to the M7, M8, N40/N28, N69 and M1) and is meant to be fulfilling this objective, which it isn't at present.

Look at the Port Tunnel, it's quite effective at doing its job because it's demand managed and not used as a free for all to serve car dependent developments which shouldn't have been built without adequate public transport access.

The exact same thing has happened with the N40 in Cork.

You're still not explaining why it's proposed use case decades ago is somehow more relevant than what it's actually used for now. "It doesn't matter what the current usage patterns or journey demographics are, what matters is that it was originally envisaged as a bypass".

Throwing out spurious examples or talking about TEN-T isn't an explanation.

As for TEN-T;

In order to establish the core network in a coordinated and timely manner, thereby making it possible to maximise the network benefits, Member States concerned should ensure that appropriate measures are taken to finalise the projects of common interest by 2030. With respect to the comprehensive network, Member States should make all possible efforts with the aim of completing it and complying with the relevant provisions of the guidelines by 2050.

marno21

TII have issued a tender looking for commercial advisers for Metrolink

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=130217

jd

I'm hearing that the alignment of the tie-in at Charlemont has hit a bit of a problem. It's been pointed out that the planned tunnels go through one of the city's main sewer/drainage tunnels under the Grand Canal as they rise to meet the Green Line. Not sure how this one was missed From what I can gather, it's not the easiest thing to sort out.

KD345

The Dunville Avenue problem is in the news again today, with a Fine Gael dispute in play between Kate O’Connell and Eoghan Murphy.

This looks set to rumble on... perhaps this earlier suggestion by BK to use Beechwood instead of Charlemont has some merit.

marno21

Another hackjob by Colm McCarthy today in the Sunday Indo saying it's time that Metrolink was buried due to BusConnects, stating that Metrolink would "deliver just one additional link to the Luas system".

Consonata

marno21 wrote: »

Another hackjob by Colm McCarthy today in the Sunday Indo saying it's time that Metrolink was buried due to BusConnects, stating that Metrolink would "deliver just one additional link to the Luas system".

I wonder what is his MO for attacking Metro-type systems. Does he have a vested interest or is he just being contrarian?

Bray Head

KD345 wrote: »

The Dunville Avenue problem is in the news again today, with a Fine Gael dispute in play between Kate O’Connell and Eoghan Murphy.

This looks set to rumble on... perhaps this earlier suggestion by BK to use Beechwood instead of Charlemont has some merit.

Or you tunnel all the way to Milltown, emerge just north of the Dodder, and connect to the green line south of the Dodder before Windy Arbour.

A lot of the local objection seems to be because of the green line closing for several months. This way the stretch from Milltown to Charlemont wouldn't have to close. 

You have the additional benefit of shaving a few minutes off the overall Metrolink journey time.

marno21

Independent article attached:

CatInABox

I had a post written up, but to be honest, he's really not worth getting worked up over. It's just so unfortunate that he gets so much print.

tom1ie

Bray Head wrote: »

Or you tunnel all the way to Milltown, emerge just north of the Dodder, and connect to the green line south of the Dodder before Windy Arbour.

A lot of the local objection seems to be because of the green line closing for several months. This way the stretch from Milltown to Charlemont wouldn't have to close. 

You have the additional benefit of shaving a few minutes off the overall Metrolink journey time.

this. While we are at it swing the tunnel via rathmines and put a stop there. I think this would solve so many issues and contribute a hell of alot to the project if rathmines got a station. Milltown golf course the big stumbling block though. Who owns it i wonder? The members?

Consonata

tom1ie wrote: »

this. While we are at it swing the tunnel via rathmines and put a stop there. I think this would solve so many issues and contribute a hell of alot to the project if rathmines got a station. Milltown golf course the big stumbling block though. Who owns it i wonder? The members?

Curving the tunnel like that would reduce overall journey speed, better to keep it as straight as possible and just build a separate line through Rathmines, Harolds X etc

marno21

Michael McDowell has an article in the SBP today about the lack of cohesion in Dublin due to the four seperate local authorities and the lack of a single directly elected Mayor. Of course, within a few paragraphs it had descended into a thinly veiled attack on Metrolink in which I can spot at least 5 inaccuracies and another bizarre focus on people commuting from Brides Glen to Cabra.

Consonata

marno21 wrote: »

Michael McDowell has an article in the SBP today about the lack of cohesion in Dublin due to the four seperate local authorities and the lack of a single directly elected Mayor. Of course, within a few paragraphs it had descended into a thinly veiled attack on Metrolink in which I can spot at least 5 inaccuracies and another bizarre focus on people commuting from Brides Glen to Cabra.

He has a point on the lack of cohesion due to no centralized Dublin power structure like a mayor or an assembly. However that's probably for another post in another place.

marno21

Consonata wrote: »

He has a point on the lack of cohesion due to no centralized Dublin power structure like a mayor or an assembly. However that's probably for another post in another place.

He does. Which is why I was interested in reading the article first place. However, an article on Dublin's local authority situtation isn't really the place to throw in a misinformed rant about a public transport project that actually IS managing to proceed despite the fact that it runs through 3 (is part of it in SDCC area) local authority areas. If anything it's a success given the current dysfunctional mess.

Bray Head

Michael McDowell has a busy day job at the Disclosures Tribunal, which sat last week.

He is also a senator, which sat three days last week too.

Where does he find the time to write such well-researched articles?

Zebra3

marno21 wrote: »

Michael McDowell has an article in the SBP today about the lack of cohesion in Dublin due to the four seperate local authorities and the lack of a single directly elected Mayor. Of course, within a few paragraphs it had descended into a thinly veiled attack on Metrolink in which I can spot at least 5 inaccuracies and another bizarre focus on people commuting from Brides Glen to Cabra.

If only McDowell had been in a position of political power to unify Dublin under one local authority.....

antoinolachtnai

These concerns and negative views are pretty widespread.

Metrolink has not done a great job of addressing them.