Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

MetroLinker

Dats me wrote: »

How do we know about the Single Bore? And if they're doing Single, why not use the monotube option? Seemed to be what the study recommended.

I think their first recommendation was 'Twin Bore Option 1A, 1B and 1C' and then their second recommendation was 'Single Bore Twin Track (side by side) Option 2B and 2D'. Third recommendation was 'Single Bore Twin Track (Monotube) Option 4'.

You can see the cost estimates below from the tunnel configuration study:


From a back of envelope calculation, you'd need four times as many shallow stations (option 2b) as deep stations (option 2d) for the single bore twin track side-by-side system before you'd be most cost effective than monotube stations(option 4). I can't find a breakdown of the different station type requirements though.

Dats me

Yeah that's the study I was looking at, maths make sense and I guess they feel they can smooth things over with Tara Street residents like yourselves (or maybe they already have and the landlords just don't care about the tenants?) .

Interesting thing from that is if we allow €100m per km and station box, and say the route is 18km (26km less 8km for Green Line Charlemont to Sandyford) that's only €1.8bn. Seems very reasonable, I guess tracks, signalling, rolling stock, ticketing machines, screen doors etc. add the rest + the huge planning cost but you'd wonder how DART Underground at 7km couldn't get itself back on the agenda.

MetroLinker

Dats me wrote: »

if we allow €100m per km and station box.

€100m per km of tunnel but also another €100m per station box which would bring up your figure a bit.

I found a blog from 2013 with some Crossrail 2 figures: http://ukrail.blogspot.com/2013/08/crossrail-2-cost-breakdown.html

Dats me

MetroLinker wrote: »

€100m per km of tunnel but also another €100m per station box which would bring up your figure a bit.

No the prices in your graphic are for 1km of tunnel + a station and portal costs averaged out, this is a quote from the paragraph preceding the table:


"Costs presented below are direct costs and allow for tunnel, station, portals all adjusted for 1km
of tunnel and one station."



Those crossrail costs do seem huge, but the platforms for that project are 240m I guess.

MetroLinker

I hadn't seen that comment - I found the table in Appendix K of the Tunnel Configuration but it must be referenced somewhere else as well.

You're right though - at those prices, Dart Underground does seem like it should come back on the table again. Baby steps...

Dats me

MetroLinker wrote: »

I hadn't seen that comment - I found the table in Appendix K of the Tunnel Configuration but it must be referenced somewhere else as well.

You're right though - at those prices, Dart Underground does seem like it should come back on the table again. Baby steps...

It's so sad how little our politicians care about climate change or even just the increase in quality of life that proper public transport infrastructure can create.

bk

MetroLinker wrote: »

You're right though - at those prices, Dart Underground does seem like it should come back on the table again. Baby steps...

I agree we should definitely being doing DU too. Though the costing of DU would be closer to the Crossrail costings above, rather then Metro.

DU will need 200 meter station boxes similar to Crossrail versus 100m of Metrolink and the whole heavy rail versus light rail, which tends to drive up costs too.

sea12

Any indication of when the preferred route will be revealed.

marno21

sea12 wrote: »

Any indication of when the preferred route will be revealed.

It's overdue at this stage so likely sometime soon

VonZan

sea12 wrote: »

Any indication of when the preferred route will be revealed.

Probably in 5 years at the current pace the NTA are moving at.

marno21

VonZan wrote: »

Probably in 5 years at the current pace the NTA are moving at.

I would imagine the NTA would prefer to be adequately resourced especially with the volume of political interference they have to deal wirh

lateconnection

Saw some engineers out using laser level equipment today between Cowper and Milltown. They were also around Cowper last week. I am guessing (could be wrong) that their work is related to Metrolink design.

VonZan

marno21 wrote: »

I would imagine the NTA would prefer to be adequately resourced especially with the volume of political interference they have to deal wirh

How would you adequately resource the NTA? What political interference are you referring to? The NTA are a complete shambles.

Idbatterim

The next recession will have hit before the bloody final route is chosen!

CatInABox

VonZan wrote: »

How would you adequately resource the NTA? What political interference are you referring to? The NTA are a complete shambles.

Well, filling the many, many positions that the NTA have said were urgently required would be a start.

Perhaps if that was done, the NTA might not be such a shambles?

CatInABox

Idbatterim wrote: »

The next recession will have hit before the bloody final route is chosen!

It's not like the NTA aren't busy right now. They're short staffed as it is, and are currently running these projects:

Dart 10 Minute schedule (they'll need to fix this one up, loads of issues with it, might not happen until Dart Expansion below)
BusConnects (Extended public consultation over, collation beginning)
BusConnects Core Corridors (Public Consultation about to begin)
Luas Expansion (the purchase of new trams, and the extension of old trams)
MetroLink (Soon to publish final route and design)
Dart Expansion (Purchasing new rolling stock, electrification of several lines, new stations)

That's not even all of what they're doing, I haven't even touched on BAU at all, nor any of the many road projects they've got going on, and all of the above are just Dublin only.

Not saying they're perfect, or doing a great job or anything, but to complain that an under resourced agency is slow without noting the amount of work that they are currently trying to get through is a bit unfair.


*I typed all that out, and then realised that you never mentioned the NTA, so you could be complaining about the government not adequately supporting them, so..... in that case, sorry! Having typed it all out, I'll leave it, as some here seem to think that because one project isn't progressing as fast as we'd all like, that the NTA are sitting on their collective holes.

Kevtherev1

Idbatterim wrote: »

The next recession will have hit before the bloody final route is chosen!

I reckon the NTA are terrified of public opinion. Terrified of the Nimby mob with preferred route not being really different from the emerging route.


Hence the long delay in not coming out with the new route, it like they NTA are trying to buy time.

Peregrine

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

I reckon the NTA are terrified of public opinion. Terrified of the Nimby mob with preferred route not being really different from the emerging route.


Hence the long delay in not coming out with the new route, it like they NTA are trying to buy time.

That's just conjecture.

Their staff shortages are well documented.

Van.Bosch

VonZan wrote: »

How would you adequately resource the NTA? What political interference are you referring to? The NTA are a complete shambles.

How are the NTA a shambles? They have done good work but recessions or politics have scuppered DU & metro to date.

cgcsb

The NTA are the most competent public body we've had in this state to date (not saying much I know). but if you're gonna trash talk an organisation run by the government, there are much more accessible targets. If the revised metro route is a month late and bus connects implementation is pushed back by only 3 months. That is a monumental achievement, worthy of even German public service.

The 90 minute, multimodal fare is now likely to be brought in BEFORE bus connects. But nobody will point to that as beating a deadline, negative press is good press.

dRNk SAnTA

cgcsb wrote: »

The NTA are the most competent public body we've had in this state to date (not saying much I know). but if you're gonna trash talk an organisation run by the government, there are much more accessible targets. If the revised metro route is a month late and bus connects implementation is pushed back by only 3 months. That is a monumental achievement, worthy of even German public service.

The 90 minute, multimodal fare is now likely to be brought in BEFORE bus connects. But nobody will point to that as beating a deadline, negative press is good press.

I agree, the NTA seem to have kicked it up a gear over the past 18 months. They have some major projects moving through the pipeline.

My one criticism is that their public communication is poor - they should be outlining a vision that the press can write about, and defending against the regular criticism and misinformation.

Anne Graham is rarely heard from.

marno21

The repulsive hyperbole driven NIMBYism in Ranelagh is continuing I see

https://twitter.com/RMetrolink

Are these people fools or what? Ranelagh is one of the areas along the Luas line that stands to benefit the most from Metrolink. If Metrolink isn't built then they face being left on the platform at Luas stops within the next 10 years.

This sort of carry on really is baffling.

Zebra3

marno21 wrote: »

The repulsive hyperbole driven NIMBYism in Ranelagh is continuing I see

https://twitter.com/RMetrolink

Are these people fools or what? Ranelagh is one of the areas along the Luas line that stands to benefit the most from Metrolink. If Metrolink isn't built then they face being left on the platform at Luas stops within the next 10 years.

This sort of carry on really is baffling.

They should be careful of getting what they wish for.

D.L.R.

marno21 wrote: »

The repulsive hyperbole driven NIMBYism in Ranelagh is continuing I see

https://twitter.com/RMetrolink

Are these people fools or what? Ranelagh is one of the areas along the Luas line that stands to benefit the most from Metrolink. If Metrolink isn't built then they face being left on the platform at Luas stops within the next 10 years.

This sort of carry on really is baffling.

Its a handful of people bleating out hysterical garbage like "Berlin Wall", egged on by a few desperate political nonentities.

The vast majority approve of Metrolink and want it to happen.

prunudo

Do the people complaining use the Luas or understand the current capacity issues and the increase the new town of Cherrywood and every other development along the route will put on the line or is it a case of how dare other people commute through our neighbourhood.

Conchir

jvan wrote: »

Do the people complaining use the Luas or understand the current capacity issues and the increase the new town of Cherrywood and every other development along the route will put on the line or is it a case of how dare other people commute through our neighbourhood.

Looking at some of the retweets on that Rethink Metrolink account, a lot of them are pushing for different routes entirely, so I imagine you're right; they're probably not Luas users at all.

ricimaki

They're comparing the metro to the Berlin Wall....
Have they forgotten that the surface-running line is already there...

There's no point in even attempting a reasoned debate with them

Grandeeod

And here we go folks. The expected result of reinventing the Metro. Why would anyone expect anything else? Loads more to come guys!

D.L.R.

Grandeeod wrote: »

And here we go folks. The expected result of reinventing the Metro. Why would anyone expect anything else? Loads more to come guys!

The green line upgrade is not a reinvention though. It was built with metro in mind.

Grandeeod

D.L.R. wrote: »

The green line upgrade is not a reinvention though. It was built with metro in mind.

It was built with a little bit of metro in mind. Surely you know the history.:D