Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

MJohnston

I truly hope they'll all be told to go fúck themselves considering the public consultation ended...*checks notes*...five months ago.

MetroLinker

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/highprofile-property-developer-johnny-ronan-will-appeal-again-as-tower-plan-is-rejected-37441792.html

DCC rejected the recent resubmission of the tower beside Tara Street

From the article:

Mr Ronan's proposed building is planned to sit on top of Dublin's proposed Metro station.

bk

MetroLinker wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/highprofile-property-developer-johnny-ronan-will-appeal-again-as-tower-plan-is-rejected-37441792.html

DCC rejected the recent resubmission of the tower beside Tara Street

From the article:

First of all it was ABP who rejected it, not DCC. Second it doesn't effect the Metro in any way.

MJohnston

bk wrote: »

First of all it was ABP who rejected it, not DCC. Second it doesn't effect the Metro in any way.

No, it was resubmitted after the ABP rejection, and now DCC have rejected this second plan. It'll go to ABP now, though I believe that part was always inevitable.

bk

MJohnston wrote: »

No, it was resubmitted after the ABP rejection, and now DCC have rejected this second plan. It'll go to ABP now, though I believe that part was always inevitable.

Ah, ok, that is weird and very confusing so!

Jeez, planning in Dublin really is a dumpster fire!

MJohnston

They modified it slightly for resubmission, I should say, it wasn't just the same thing again (although not far off). According to rumours, they were only 1 vote shy from winning the ABP appeal, so it might go ahead this time.

Chivito550

I’ve dipped away from the infrastructure forum of late as I found myself getting so frustrated with how backwards we are as a country when it comes to public transport investment. So I haven’t followed the Metro developments for about 4 months, since Na Fianna started throwing toys out of the pram. Can somebody provide an update as to where the project currently stands?

Idbatterim

Chivito550 wrote: »

I’ve dipped away from the infrastructure forum of late as I found myself getting so frustrated with how backwards we are as a country when it comes to public transport investment. So I haven’t followed the Metro developments for about 4 months, since Na Fianna started throwing toys out of the pram. Can somebody provide an update as to where the project currently stands?

same here. I don’t even know why we need consultants etc , we have the local resident experts along the line, just let them design and build it ... there is far too much input from gob****es at every level! One of the best things about this project / farce is billions being spent, then penny pinching to save a few percent of the cost and delivering some half assed result. If they are scared by the figures that a game changer project will do and wait another Irish solution, some half assed under capacity solution, simply don’t built it at all ...

MJohnston

Chivito550 wrote: »

I’ve dipped away from the infrastructure forum of late as I found myself getting so frustrated with how backwards we are as a country when it comes to public transport investment. So I haven’t followed the Metro developments for about 4 months, since Na Fianna started throwing toys out of the pram. Can somebody provide an update as to where the project currently stands?

No public timeline beyond the one on Metrolink.ie was ever published afaik, so we're still in a waiting phase. Railway order isn't due for another year, so it might be a while before we do hear anything.

prunudo

Unfortunately you'll have to prepare to be frustrated further.

Dats me

There's a preferred route (update to the emerging preferred route based on public consultation) due out next month according to Eoghan Murphy: http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/2018/08/31/metro-updated-timelines/ .

NTA dropped the portal at Na Fianna, they seem to be happy now. Residents at the Tara St apartments are unhappy now, hopefully they'll be properly looked after.

Ranelagh are still angry, although a solution to that road at beechwood has been proposed (an over or under pass). Ranelagh want to kill the project altogether so an election now (which there probably will be soon) is not great - hopefully NTA can sort this out before then. While people on this forum are complaining about the delay, I think it's probably a good sign that this stage isn't being rushed and if they can get solutions to these groups problems the thing should go ahead!

Meanwhile there's a lovely "concept engineering document" on the website published in June that goes through rolling stock, stations, throughput, park and ride etc. at a high level.

CatInABox

MetroLinker wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/highprofile-property-developer-johnny-ronan-will-appeal-again-as-tower-plan-is-rejected-37441792.html

DCC rejected the recent resubmission of the tower beside Tara Street

From the article:

The article is wrong, his proposal won't have anything to do with the Metro Station. It will, of course, be on top of the tunnel itself, but won't affect the station at all.

markpb

CatInABox wrote: »

The article is wrong, his proposal won't have anything to do with the Metro Station. It will, of course, be on top of the tunnel itself, but won't affect the station at all.

What am I missing, the article hardly mentions the station at all?

Mr Ronan's proposed building is planned to sit on top of Dublin's proposed Metro station... It follows the city's recently restated brief for the site, a landmark accommodating fundamental public benefits for station users.

Which bit is wrong?

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

What am I missing, the article hardly mentions the station at all?

Which bit is wrong?

This bit is wrong:

Mr Ronan's proposed building is planned to sit on top of Dublin's proposed Metro station

The station plans clearly show the station is bounded by Poolbeg Street on the north, while Tara House would only occupy the "block" north of Poolbeg Street. There's no overlap.

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

This bit is wrong:


The station plans clearly show the station is bounded by Poolbeg Street on the north, while Tara House would only occupy the "block" north of Poolbeg Street. There's no overlap.

Thanks! Saves me going back through the thread to find similar.

MetroLinker

MJohnston wrote: »

The station plans clearly show the station is bounded by Poolbeg Street on the north, while Tara House would only occupy the "block" north of Poolbeg Street. There's no overlap.

I thought that they were possibly privy to some new information for the re-submission of the planning application as it would have been completed after the public consultation period rather than what we can see on the Metrolink website.

MJohnston

MetroLinker wrote: »

I thought that they were possibly privy to some new information for the re-submission of the planning application as it would have been completed after the public consultation period rather than what we can see on the Metrolink website.

With the Irish press, it's best to assume incompetence rather than investigation.

Kermit.de.frog

Dats me wrote: »

There's a preferred route (update to the emerging preferred route based on public consultation) due out next month according to Eoghan Murphy: http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/2018/08/31/metro-updated-timelines/ .

The whole process is too slow.

Another round of public consultations means another round of NIMBY assertions.

Seriously, we need to get our planning system in check and cut out all this fat.

Things need to be done and people just have to get over it. We are too tolerant in this country of individual concerns around major projects.

Kermit.de.frog

I see they are considering an honor system for ticketing and that there would be no ticket gates in the stations.

I would take issue with that from a security standpoint.

The low level security issues on the Luas red line are well documented but i'm thinking more about terrorism risk (even if the overall risk is very low, it only take one unhinged individual to cause carnage).

I think there should be a proper level of security at stations.

LeinsterDub

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see they are considering an honor system for ticketing and that there would be no ticket gates in the stations.

I would take issue with that from a security standpoint.

The low level security issues on the Luas red line are well documented but i'm thinking more about terrorism risk (even if the overall risk is very low, it only take one unhinged individual to cause carnage).

I think there should be a proper level of security at stations.

Turnstiles aren't going to prevent terrorists

Qrt

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see they are considering an honor system for ticketing and that there would be no ticket gates in the stations.

I would take issue with that from a security standpoint.

The low level security issues on the Luas red line are well documented but i'm thinking more about terrorism risk (even if the overall risk is very low, it only take one unhinged individual to cause carnage).

I think there should be a proper level of security at stations.

An honour system would be terrible. If you can put turnstiles in, then put them in, certainly in the northside ones (because they're full new builds, not because it's the northside)

Is there any indication of frequency? I remember Metro North being "every 90 seconds".

AngryLips

Why would an honors system that works for Luas not work for Metro?

Podge_irl

AngryLips wrote: »

Why would an honors system that works for Luas not work for Metro?

You would have other issues around an honour system to do with free access to the underground stations, which is a bigger problem then for on street platforms. Seems like a terrible idea to me.

MJohnston

Worrying about terrorism is loopy thinking, there are far better reasons to prefer a barrier system. For all the faults of the DART, anti-social behaviour isn't really one of them, and I've always felt the DART is a much more relaxing ride because of the barriers.

It doesn't even require that many staff, you look at the likes of the NYC Subway and it's largely one staff member per major station exit (ie. Some of the bigger stations there have two or more exits per station that are very far apart). Metrolink would be even simpler.

I'm not *opposed* to the honour system, I just think it ends up requiring many more staff than using barriers.

Qrt

AngryLips wrote: »

Why would an honors system that works for Luas not work for Metro?

Have been on the red line between Abbey Street and James's recently?

CatInABox

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The whole process is too slow.

Another round of public consultations means another round of NIMBY assertions.

Seriously, we need to get our planning system in check and cut out all this fat.

Things need to be done and people just have to get over it. We are too tolerant in this country of individual concerns around major projects.

While I'm frustrated at the slow progress of everything planning related, it's somewhat unfair to lay the blame at the feet of our "process". I'd much prefer to live in a society that takes on board peoples views, and issues approval after careful consideration.

The problem with our process as I see it, is the lack of resources at every stage. ABP is understaffed and underfunded, meaning delays on every project. If it goes to appeal, then it's back into ABP, still understaffed and underfunded. If there's a legal challenge then, it goes into a courts system that is understaffed and underfunded. An appeal there and it's going through the same stretched system.

We're all concerned here with what the NTA are doing, but the main reason that they're going so slow (other than the fact that the work they're churning through is hideously complex) is that they too are understaffed and underfunded.

bk

Lets be honest, the DART is also pretty much an honour system.

Outside of the city center stations, most of the stations I use and can think of basically have their gates wide open most of the time. I think it is a requirement for health and safety anyway that gates don't stop people from escaping.

An accident/fire is a more likely threat then terrorism, not that a gate would do anything to stop a terrorist anyway (see London and multiple bombings over the years).

I will say though that Metrolink will strengthen the argument for a dedicated transport police service like London has. Police patrolling Metro, Luas, DART, stations and odd patrols on buses would be a welcome development IMO.

Kermit.de.frog

Qrt wrote: »

Have been on the red line between Abbey Street and James's recently?

Transfer that underground and passengers would feel more cautious and less secure. Then you will have the inevitable petty crime and drug issue, vandalism in the stations.

I think people would prefer a barrier system like the DART.

Easier to maintain and more secure.

In relation to the drugs issue which is the most serious problem in the city center. It is DCC policy that has drug users from all over Leinster concentrated in the city center to go to the clinics on a daily basis.

OK. If policy is going to be that then there are things that we just can not have unfortunately and seamless access to underground tunnels and stations is one of them.

MICKEYG

Just back from Frankfurt and the city and it's surrounds are honour based.
They have a strong policy on fare evasion though - €60 fine and no excuses accepted. If we could adopt that here it would work but I can see everyone looking for loopholes.

Bray Head

MICKEYG wrote: »

Just back from Frankfurt and the city and it's surrounds are honour based.
They have a strong policy on fare evasion though - €60 fine and no excuses accepted. If we could adopt that here it would work but I can see everyone looking for loopholes.

Last time I took the Luas a guy was stopped by a ticket inspector for not having a ticket.


He simply refused to talk, and walked off at the next stop. The inspectors called after him but there was nothing they could do. It was clear he'd done this a few times and knew there is no sanction.


We need a dedicated transport police with powers of arrest and detention.