Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

CatInABox

The Apollo House site has been sold off for €50 million. I'd expect planning/construction on this is start moving quickly now.

See here.

My guess is that any hope of getting a Metro station in under there will be gone pretty quickly.

Idbatterim

CatInABox wrote: »

The Apollo House site has been sold off for €50. I'd expect planning/construction on this is start moving quickly now.

See here.

My guess is that any hope of getting a Metro station in under there will be gone pretty quickly.

Why didn’t those idiots in power buy the site? They already own Hawkins house don’t they. Knocking down an apartment block is the result? Why don’t the state develop of for their own offices or develop it and rent it out !

Surely that site would have been perfect for a Dublin metro and dart underground interchange ? Connect it with pedestrian tunnel to tara street

CatInABox

Idbatterim wrote: »

Why didn’t those idiots in power buy the site? They already own Hawkins house don’t they. Knocking down an apartment block is the result? Why don’t the state develop of for their own offices or develop it and rent it out !

Surely that site would have been perfect for a Dublin metro and dart underground interchange ? Connect it with pedestrian tunnel to tara street

It's not ideal from the point of view of the tunnel alignment, you'd probably lose the O'Connell St stop due to having to change the curve of the tunnel.

Then the tunnel linking them would be a major pain in construction, as it'd be just under the surface of the road (they're not going to manually dig a tunnel 30m underground from station to station), so at least one road would be closed, with a phased closure of Tara St itself.

Then you're dealing with where to join the tunnel to Tara St station. Putting it at the north end of the platform is problematic, as it's already a bottleneck there. They're planning on upgrading it, but even then, Metrolink is going to be delivering a train every 90 seconds (and that's just one direction). Entirely possible that 10% of the people on those trains want to interchange, it could swamp the north end of the platform in short order.

So putting it onto the south end is the more likely option there, but to do it right will probably mean knocking the apartment block anyway. And if you're knocking it anyway, you might as well put the station there itself.

On the day that the Metrolink opens, Tara St Station will become the busiest interchange station in all of Ireland. Discommoding less than 200 property owners is a small price to pay for having such a great interchange, to be honest.

Sam Russell

Mod: off topic posts moved. This thread is about Metrolink as published.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah but if the portal is moved further south, that's gonna have an impact on other properties that are gonna kick up a stink, thus delaying things again.
If we do get by the next consultation my understanding is there is an application for planning permission then (a railway procurement order?) How long does that take?

Any takers?

Dats me

Look at MetroLink.ie they gave a year, 2018 finalise plan, 2019 submit Railway Order, 2020 decision (anticipated), 2021 construction.

Consultation started 8/9 months ago and the timeline is 6 months behind already, but important to solve issues now so the An Bord Pleanála goes smoothly.

MJohnston

Dats me wrote: »

Look at MetroLink.ie they gave a year, 2018 finalise plan, 2019 submit Railway Order, 2020 decision (anticipated), 2021 construction.

Consultation started 8/9 months ago and the timeline is 6 months behind already, but important to solve issues now so the An Bord Pleanála goes smoothly.

You are incorrect. The website has always stated "Q1 2018" for public consultation on the preferred route, this is what we got. And it has always stated "Q3 2019" for the Railway Order application.

So there's no indication that the timeline is behind from what we've heard all along, and I would be absolutely stunned if they hadn't built a plan adjustment and re-consultation into that timeline.

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

You are incorrect. The website has always stated "Q1 2018" for public consultation on the preferred route, this is what we got. And it has always stated "Q3 2019" for the Railway Order application.

So there's no indication that the timeline is behind from what we've heard all along, and I would be absolutely stunned if they hadn't built a plan adjustment and re-consultation into that timeline.

They had previously announced the month that they were going to show the preferred route (following on from the emerging preferred route), but it's been delayed a couple of times so far. Technically speaking, their plans won't be delayed until they delay the RPO, but to conduct another public consultation on the preferred route, and get it all finished before Q3 2019 seems unlikely, at least in my opinion.

MJohnston

CatInABox wrote: »

They had previously announced the month that they were going to show the preferred route (following on from the emerging preferred route), but it's been delayed a couple of times so far. Technically speaking, their plans won't be delayed until they delay the RPO, but to conduct another public consultation on the preferred route, and get it all finished before Q3 2019 seems unlikely, at least in my opinion.

That may be true, but none of that was ever part of the website's timeline.

cgcsb

What is the point of yet another consultation?

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

What is the point of yet another consultation?

They may be required to do them.

Qrt

cgcsb wrote: »

What is the point of yet another consultation?

To appease the bourgeoisie

Dats me

Much better to smooth out any issues in non-statuatory consultations on their own terms I would presume than have protests at the Bord Pleanála oral hearing?

CatInABox

The next consultation will be the finalised plan, and will presumably focus on any changes that have been made to the EPR.

cgcsb

MJohnston wrote: »

They may be required to do them.

How onerous of the state to put up so many barriers to progress.

MetroLinker

My understanding is that the first public consultation was statutory and the next one is non-statutory. For such a large scheme, I think additional details and another consultation are warranted in advance of the final submission to An Bord Pleanala. I imagine it's much cheaper to deal with issues outside the planning process.

jd

First one was non-statutory

CatInABox

jd wrote: »

First one was non-statutory

That makes sense, of course the statutory one has to be on the finalised plans. Thanks!

tom1ie

MetroLinker wrote: »

My understanding is that the first public consultation was statutory and the next one is non-statutory. For such a large scheme, I think additional details and another consultation are warranted in advance of the final submission to An Bord Pleanala. I imagine it's much cheaper to deal with issues outside the planning process.

Ok so we have another consultation and then the residents around beechwood (if that’s where the portal will exit) kick up, so we go back to a redesign or different option again. Then we wait, then we go for a third consultation. Do ya see what I’m getting at here, when is the red line that we just say, “right off to abp with this plan, if the government really want this major infrastructure then it’ll get permission there.”
Even if they decide on this revised plan and it’s sent to abp, what’s to stop rethink metrolink or any other group of goons lodging an objection and or appeal to abp thus delaying the whole thing again!
These consultations are ridiculous and the further the project is delayed the higher the chance we go the way of metro north.
Something I believe grandeod has said since day 1

prunudo

I hope you're wrong but it does have the hallmarks of heading that way.

cgcsb

tom1ie wrote: »

Ok so we have another consultation and then the residents around beechwood (if that’s where the portal will exit) kick up, so we go back to a redesign or different option again. Then we wait, then we go for a third consultation. Do ya see what I’m getting at here, when is the red line that we just say, “right off to abp with this plan, if the government really want this major infrastructure then it’ll get permission there.”
Even if they decide on this revised plan and it’s sent to abp, what’s to stop rethink metrolink or any other group of goons lodging an objection and or appeal to abp thus delaying the whole thing again!
These consultations are ridiculous and the further the project is delayed the higher the chance we go the way of metro north.
Something I believe grandeod has said since day 1

In a nutshell a project this size is way too big for and long lasting for an Irish government. It'll span three terms of government at least, so can never happen. BusConnects might happen, partially, but not fully.

jd

tom1ie wrote: »

Ok so we have another consultation and then the residents around beechwood (if that’s where the portal will exit) kick up, so we go back to a redesign or different option again

There was always going to be a 2nd round of consultation. 1st consultation based on EPR, 2nd on Preferred Route.

antoinolachtnai

The residents effected by the portal will only have their back gardens effected though. And they will be paid for this. I don’t think they will kick up.

Idbatterim

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The residents effected by the portal will only have their back gardens effected though. And they will be paid for this. I don’t think they will kick up.

Lol! They could have five hundred meter back gardens and they would kick off!

salmocab

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The residents effected by the portal will only have their back gardens effected though. And they will be paid for this. I don’t think they will kick up.

Of course they will kick up. If it was my garden I’d kick up either in the hope it goes somewhere else or that I get more money.

antoinolachtnai

salmocab wrote: »

Of course they will kick up. If it was my garden I’d kick up either in the hope it goes somewhere else or that I get more money.

So give them more money. When you get 65 percent of people to take the offer you bring the rest forward through the statutory CPO process, where they will end up getting less if they don’t settle beforehand.

salmocab

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

So give them more money. When you get 65 percent of people to take the offer you bring the rest forward through the statutory CPO process, where they will end up getting less if they don’t settle beforehand.

I’m all for giving them more and getting this going but I think it would be silly to think that there won’t be issues. Hopefully they are dealt with quickly and efficiently.

tom1ie

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The residents effected by the portal will only have their back gardens effected though. And they will be paid for this. I don’t think they will kick up.

Your very optimistic!

tom1ie

jd wrote: »

There was always going to be a 2nd round of consultation. 1st consultation based on EPR, 2nd on Preferred Route.

Yes but will we get a 3rd round if there is a kick back against the preferred route, or does it go to abp and then get blocked there?

antoinolachtnai

I don't think it will get blocked at ABP. This is no Children's Hospital. It is not even a Metro North or DART Underground or Luas Cross City. It is just a compelling project. The business case is very compelling, and the negative impacts are not (objectively) that bad. ABP are not going to turn this down.

The problem is really more of a political one. No one wants to be ramrodding something through a place that really doesn't want it. It's the subjective impact that needs to be managed. This will be a bone of contention in local elections in the area, I suppose.