Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

antoinolachtnai

tom1ie wrote: »

Your very optimistic!

Who is going to turn down fifty grand to rent the back of your garden for two years?

Even if 100 gardens are needed (it won't be that many) it's only 5 million euros.

a.

AlphaOmega1

Lots of rumors circulating right now

Bray Head

The biggest risk to Metrolink is what happened to Metro North: that tax revenues take a turn for the worse and politicians will prioritise current expenditure.

antoinolachtnai

Bray Head wrote: »

The biggest risk to Metrolink is what happened to Metro North: that tax revenues take a turn for the worse and politicians will prioritise current expenditure.

Business case is a lot stronger than before though.

Bray Head

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Business case is a lot stronger than before though.

You are right. But the point would be moot if tax revenues fell even half as rapidly as they did in 2008-09.

antoinolachtnai

Bray Head wrote: »

You are right. But the point would be moot if tax revenues fell even half as rapidly as they did in 2008-09.

I don’t think so, necessarily. A new Troika might decide to go ahead with this project, as an internal stimulus. Contractors would also cut costs. Dublin has a fundamental housing and transport problem that would still have to be addressed even if there were a global recession.

It does seem quite likely that there will be some sort of economic ‘bump’ between now and 2023 so this has to be planned for.

Bray Head

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I don’t think so, necessarily. A new Troika might decide to go ahead with this project, as an internal stimulus.

Unlikely. A big TBM is not an 'internal' stimulus, as pretty much all the equipment has to be imported.

Many people forget, but Dublin's (currently substandard) level of transport infrastructure was actually fine for the level of demand in 2011, which was very low.

It wasn't fine for the level of demand in 2008 or 2018, which is a lot higher.

But if employment and traffic volumes collapse again bus speeds will improve quite a bit as they did during the last recession.

CatInABox

Bray Head wrote: »

Unlikely. A big TBM is not an 'internal' stimulus, as pretty much all the equipment has to be imported.

The TBM, sure, but everything else? The thousands of construction workers, all the materials (concrete and the like), they're all going to be Irish based.

antoinolachtnai

CatInABox wrote: »

The TBM, sure, but everything else? The thousands of construction workers, all the materials (concrete and the like), they're all going to be Irish based.

If there is a global recession, propping up jobs in Germany and Japan will be as important as propping up the Irish economy. (Arguably more important.)

I just wouldn’t be too pessimistic.

cgcsb

The world's human population will be destroyed by ecological disaster in 50 years. With the extinction of pollinating insects in the northern hemisphere we're toast. The chinese will soon be consuming energy and resources at the same rate as western people, and their population is bottomless. Aside from Europe taking a massive overnight interest in passive housing, vegansim, nuclear power and zero waste lifestyles coupled with India and China deciding to have a nuclear war with eachother to reduce Asia's mamoth growth in population and consumption, it's unlikely humanity has a future anyway. Therefore metrolink is a waste of time. But cost benefit analysis doesnt account for existential factors and it shouldn't really because life goes on.

tom1ie

cgcsb wrote: »

The world's human population will be destroyed by ecological disaster in 50 years. With the extinction of pollinating insects in the northern hemisphere we're toast. The chinese will soon be consuming energy and resources at the same rate as western people, and their population is bottomless. Aside from Europe taking a massive overnight interest in passive housing, vegansim, nuclear power and zero waste lifestyles coupled with India and China deciding to have a nuclear war with eachother to reduce Asia's mamoth growth in population and consumption, it's unlikely humanity has a future anyway. Therefore metrolink is a waste of time. But cost benefit analysis doesnt account for existential factors and it shouldn't really because life goes on.

:eek: your on the hard stuff a bit early aren't ya?!

cgcsb

tom1ie wrote: »

:eek: your on the hard stuff a bit early aren't ya?!

Obviously missing the point.
It's no use factoring in future disasters into infrastructure planning.

tom1ie

cgcsb wrote: »

Obviously missing the point.
It's no use factoring in future disasters into infrastructure planning.

yeah i got that alright, but it would have been easier just saying "It's no use factoring in future disasters into infrastructure planning"
just saying is all!

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we stick to the Metrolink as proposed.

AngryLips

cgcsb wrote: »

An issue that hasn't seemed to surface is the closure of O'Connell St Upper for a prolonged period to build a station there. This will mean either severing the northbound luas for a time or closing the southbound carriageway and Eastern footpath.

It's odd that this is an acceptable course of action for O'Connell Street yet the Stephen's Green station had to be moved from the developed plans for MN over similar concerns there.

MJohnston

AngryLips wrote: »

It's odd that this is an acceptable course of action for O'Connell Street yet the Stephen's Green station had to be moved from the developed plans for MN over similar concerns there.

For SSG it was likely more because the closure of the green and the draining of the duck pond was such a negative story.

prunudo

MJohnston wrote: »

For SSG it was likely more because the closure of the green and the draining of the duck pond was such a negative story.

Has there been any stories on Metrolink that haven't been negative?

MJohnston

jvan wrote: »

Has there been any stories on Metrolink that haven't been negative?

Well the SSG was one they dodged, it had been previously used as ammo against Metro North.

CatInABox

jvan wrote: »

Has there been any stories on Metrolink that haven't been negative?

The Dublin Inquirer have run a number of articles that were positive about it, but it's been pretty rare. Basically, the media cottoned on to the fact that clickbaity, negative articles drive more readership than just "plain" reporting, and now every article is designed that way.

bk

AngryLips wrote: »

It's odd that this is an acceptable course of action for O'Connell Street yet the Stephen's Green station had to be moved from the developed plans for MN over similar concerns there.

What was planned for Stephens Green under Metro North was FAR more disruptive then what is planned for O'Connel St Upper or Stephens Green under Metrolink.

Under Metro North, almost the entire green was to be dug up to build a massive Metro/DART Underground interchange station and a massive turning loop for the Metro under the Green.

By comparison, the two Metrolink stations are relatively small and "simple" station boxes.

In the case of Upper O'Connell St, the street most likely won't need to be closed. But there would be a need to reduce lanes and redirect around traffic and Luas as the station is built in phases. This isn't unusual, it is how Metro stations in the likes of Amsterdam and Copenhagen are built.

Basically you close one or two lanes. Start digging the hole, once deep enough, you put a temporary road deck over the hole and then move over a lane and two and do the same again (with the traffic shifted back over to the temporary deck). You can then continue digging and constructing the station under the temporary decking. It looks something a bit like this:

roadmaster

i wonder in the background has the route being nailed down and the consultants are working away on it and the public consultation is just for show

Bray Head

bk wrote: »

What was planned for Stephens Green under Metro North was FAR more disruptive then what is planned for O'Connel St Upper or Stephens Green under Metrolink.

People forget but there were apocalyptic stories in the Irish Times in 2008 about the 'old' Metro North project.

Other statuary scheduled for temporary removal include ..........the statues of Lord Ardilaun and Robert Emmet and O'Donovan Rossa memorial in St Stephen's Green.

The Fusiliers' Arch at the northwest corner of the green would have to be removed for the construction of a terminal stop at this location. Railings and trees would also have to be removed as some 20 per cent of the green becomes a building site.

So would the African Rose bowl, erected as recently as 2006, as well as "foot rails, perimeter railings, perimeter granite footpath, granite bollards and metal bollards and Victorian landscaping, including the Pulham rock"

If MN had ever gone ahead, I think the major disruption to SSG would have been a major piece of artillery for the objectors.

Metrolink is far less intrusive by comparison.

Lord Glentoran

Bray Head wrote: »

People forget but there were apocalyptic stories in the Irish Times in 2008 about the 'old' Metro North project.



If MN had ever gone ahead, I think the major disruption to SSG would have been a major piece of artillery for the objectors.

Metrolink is far less intrusive by comparison.

Objection to PT projects must be going down the generations now. We will always have the aggrieved Merc owners shaking their fists at the plebs getting decent transport, and the well meaning but foolish who think recycling pub talk as fact will somehow “improve” but not cripplingly delay a project.

Bray Head

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Objection to PT projects must be going down the generations now. We will always have the aggrieved Merc owners shaking their fists at the plebs getting decent transport, and the well meaning but foolish who think recycling pub talk as fact will somehow “improve” but not cripplingly delay a project.

Actually the biggest journalistic objector to MN was a childless man who lives in an apartment in the city centre!

marno21

Bray Head wrote: »

Actually the biggest journalistic objector to MN was a childless man who lives in an apartment in the city centre!

Who has taken a similar approach to this Metrolink plan.

jd

Leaflet rethink-metrolink are distributing.
The bulk of the 3 billion is spent on the north side.
I wonder what at frequency they expect to run the Luas on the green line

jd

And also this one from the Greens. 13k capacity on Green line by increasing frequency?

marno21

Why use facts when they don't suit your agenda?

Qrt

Might as well book my one-way flights abroad now :rolleyes:

jd

Green Party seem to be suggesting that we run 55 meter Luas trams at 36 tph in each direction, unless I've miscalculated somewhere!