Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

madbeanman

Qrt wrote: »

I
If they do stick with the metro name, I at least hope they spell it Meitreo.

Down with Béarlachas!
Luas faoi thalamh or Luas Mheitreo or just Luas. These are my votes.

D.L.R. wrote: »

Tram lines and Metro lines should not have the same branding.

Please elaborate. I would tend to agree with the poster that said that integrating as many services as possible creates a more cohesive public transport system. We should also move towards a more integrated ticketing system.

But I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

AlmightyCushion

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'd disagree. Public transport is public transport, the sooner we get to integrated ticketing the better, integrated branding is a key part of that IMO. Should be able to take a 90min ticket from Bus to Luas to Metro if you want.

They aren't the same thing though. You can do integrated ticketing without have the same branding.

madbeanman

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

They aren't the same thing though. You can do integrated ticketing without have the same branding.

But like why does it matter that they arent the same thing, this is what I dont get?

AlmightyCushion

madbeanman wrote: »

But like why does it matter that they arent the same thing, this is what I dont get?

I don't think it matters that much whether it's called Luas, Metro or whatever but you can still do integrated ticketing even if the names are different.

MJohnston

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'd disagree. Public transport is public transport, the sooner we get to integrated ticketing the better, integrated branding is a key part of that IMO. Should be able to take a 90min ticket from Bus to Luas to Metro if you want.

You can do integrated ticketing without integrated branding.

But more importantly, you can have integrated branding without naming all the services the same thing. TfL is a perfect model for this.

Their closest equivalent of the Luas is branded as 'Trams':



And then they have their Metro equivalent as 'Underground'. But they even delineate that from 'DLR' which is a slightly different mode from both these things.

marno21

What's wrong with just "Metro"? Dublin Bus, Irish Rail Intercity, DART, Commuter rail, Dublin Bikes all have English brands.

salmocab

marno21 wrote: »

What's wrong with just "Metro"? Dublin Bus, Irish Rail Intercity, DART, Commuter rail, Dublin Bikes all have English brands.

For me it just has to be a short useable word, Luas, Dart, Metro, Tube even the German, U-Bahn are all good useable words. I’d leave it at metro, wouldn’t use luas as for future developments it should be very clear what is being proposed and talked about. If we end up with politicians using one word for two very different things we could end up regretting it.

LongboardPro

TFI Metro™

D.L.R.

madbeanman wrote: »

Please elaborate. I would tend to agree with the poster that said that integrating as many services as possible creates a more cohesive public transport system. We should also move towards a more integrated ticketing system.

But I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

Someone suggested calling the Metro "Luas". I disagreed with that, different modes should have different names.

Integrated ticketing is a different issue.

Qrt

marno21 wrote: »

What's wrong with just "Metro"? Dublin Bus, Irish Rail Intercity, DART, Commuter rail, Dublin Bikes all have English brands.

Meitreo:

- conforms to the spelling rules of the first language of the state
- same pronunciation
- just looks a bit more unique tbh
- metro is just...boring, spice it up a bit like

Markcheese

It just seems like sticking an extra letter in for the sake of it. Plus someone will definitely dispute the spelling, is conjugated correctly, should it take a H.. Whats the tithsel guineduct (can't spell it.
, anyway it'll have to be rebranded several times before any build can start.. So I wouldn't worry.

madbeanman

MJohnston wrote: »

You can do integrated ticketing without integrated branding.

But more importantly, you can have integrated branding without naming all the services the same thing. TfL is a perfect model for this.

Their closest equivalent of the Luas is branded as 'Trams':



And then they have their Metro equivalent as 'Underground'. But they even delineate that from 'DLR' which is a slightly different mode from both these things.

Ok this makes sense to me.

London is a good example, I guess.

So my issue is with the lack of integrated branding I guess. Although I do think you could integrate all brands around the idea of one name Luas. You could have the Traein Luais (for the Dart), Meitreo Luais for Metro, Tramanna Luais for the red and green lines, and Busanna Luais for the current Dublin Bus and Go Ahead Services.

Seems simple and nicer.

madbeanman

Markcheese wrote: »

It just seems like sticking an extra letter in for the sake of it. Plus someone will definitely dispute the spelling, is conjugated correctly, should it take a H.. Whats the tithsel guineduct (can't spell it.
, anyway it'll have to be rebranded several times before any build can start.. So I wouldn't worry.

Well no one could say it should be in the tuiseal ginideach in an English sentence. English doesn’t have a tuiseal ginideach. No offence but that reason seems to be an attempt to create a problem where there is none .

salmocab

madbeanman wrote: »

Ok this makes sense to me.

London is a good example, I guess.

So my issue is with the lack of integrated branding I guess. Although I do think you could integrate all brands around the idea of one name Luas. You could have the Traein Luais (for the Dart), Meitreo Luais for Metro, Tramanna Luais for the red and green lines, and Busanna Luais for the current Dublin Bus and Go Ahead Services.

Seems simple and nicer.

Seems convoluted and pointless your effectively jamming the word luas unnecessarily into other things. Metro, Luas, Bus and Train seems even simpler and nicer.

madbeanman

salmocab wrote: »

Seems convoluted and pointless your effectively jamming the word luas unnecessarily into other things. Metro, Luas, Bus and Train seems even simpler and nicer.

It’s more of an excuse to use similar branding and be a bit more constitutional. But I understand it could be more elegant.

salmocab

madbeanman wrote: »

It’s more of an excuse to use similar branding and be a bit more constitutional. But I understand it could be more elegant.

I really don’t think the branding is much of an issue, the busses are going to be branded the same with 2 different operators and that makes sense as it’s one network with the same numbering system which will be even better if bus connects happens, the luas and dart are very different with the metro being different again, lots of cities have multi modes of transport with completely different names and it’s not an issue.

Now I would be happy with the promised fully integrated ticketing and the 90 minute change between any mode.

I’d also like to see stops and routes using the same style of signage etc so it’s easy to understand and use but I see no reason to change the names of anything.

Muahahaha

That news that came out about the cost increases to build the National Childrens Hospital does not bode well for the Metro going ahead. The Childrens Hospital went from a projected €1bn last February to €1.4bn right now with some people projecting it is going to go even higher than that. They said construction inflation has risen 22% since 2016 and this accounts for about half of the €400m increase with the rest due to higher specs and plan redesigns.

AFAIR the current Metro projection is circa €3bn. At a minimum you would say it should be risen by the 22% construction inflation and then with a start date not until 2022 we could be looking at the same again. If it gets to the end of planning in 2021 and suddenly the project looks like costing nigh on €5bn it is going to be very difficult politically to push through. Voters wont get up in arms about the increasing cost of a National Childrens Hospital that benefits all children but they likely will about a €5bn metro line that only benefits a small section of people "up in Dublin"

Bray Head

Muahahaha wrote: »

AFAIR the current Metro projection is circa €3bn. At a minimum you would say it should be risen by the 22% construction inflation and then with a start date not until 2022 we could be looking at the same again. If it gets to the end of planning in 2021 and suddenly the project looks like costing nigh on €5bn it is going to be very difficult politically to push through.

And what do you think will happen to tax revenues if the economy is booming?

Shedite27

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

They aren't the same thing though. You can do integrated ticketing without have the same branding.

You can' but ya need something to hold them together, this ticket brought to you by who?

MJohnston wrote: »

You can do integrated ticketing without integrated branding.

But more importantly, you can have integrated branding without naming all the services the same thing. TfL is a perfect model for this.

Their closest equivalent of the Luas is branded as 'Trams':



And then they have their Metro equivalent as 'Underground'. But they even delineate that from 'DLR' which is a slightly different mode from both these things.

You've anserwed your own question there, TFL is the integrated brand.

It's obviously not an absolutel neccessity, but I think it definitely makes it clearer for users. Vancouver has Translink that has Busses, Trains, Skytrains and Ferries on the same ticket. London has TFL/Oyster that brings you busses, tube and DLR.

Bray Head

Markcheese wrote: »

It just seems like sticking an extra letter in for the sake of it. Plus someone will definitely dispute the spelling, is conjugated correctly, should it take a H.. Whats the tithsel guineduct (can't spell it.
, anyway it'll have to be rebranded several times before any build can start.. So I wouldn't worry.

They rebranded Fás as Intreo a few years back. It's a bilingual pun.

Unfortunately people pronounce it two different ways.

Qrt

Bray Head wrote: »

They rebranded Fás as Intreo a few years back. It's a bilingual pun.

Unfortunately people pronounce it two different ways.

It’s pronounced the same as intro, I don’t get the other pronunciation?

Metro would just be Meitreo. There’s no tuiseal guinideach to consider.

CatInABox

Qrt wrote: »

It’s pronounced the same as intro, I don’t get the other pronunciation?

Metro would just be Meitreo. There’s no tuiseal guinideach to consider.

Holy ****. I've been pronouncing it IN-TER-O this entire time. The "E" in there throws me, makes me think I have to pronounce it, and that's the only way it fits in, in my head at least.

Morto.

CatInABox

Shedite27 wrote: »

You can' but ya need something to hold them together, this ticket brought to you by who?

You've anserwed your own question there, TFL is the integrated brand.

It's obviously not an absolutel neccessity, but I think it definitely makes it clearer for users. Vancouver has Translink that has Busses, Trains, Skytrains and Ferries on the same ticket. London has TFL/Oyster that brings you busses, tube and DLR.

TFI is already the integrated brand in Ireland, and it's starting to become more prominent recently. All the new buses have a TFI sign on them, as do all the Leapcards.

Qrt

CatInABox wrote: »

Holy ****. I've been pronouncing it IN-TER-O this entire time. The "E" in there throws me, makes me think I have to pronounce it, and that's the only way it fits in, in my head at least.

Morto.

I once stood up in front of the head of my relevant college course’s department and said “self-depreciating” instead of “self-deprecating” so all is forgiven.

salmocab

Shedite27 wrote: »

You can' but ya need something to hold them together, this ticket brought to you by who?

London has TFL/Oyster that brings you busses, tube and DLR.

We already have leap card that works on bus,Luas,dart and some trains but Im not sure how far that goes.
TFI collect all the fares it’s very much the same, or will be when the promised changes come in.

strassenwo!f

Muahahaha wrote: »

That news that came out about the cost increases to build the National Childrens Hospital does not bode well for the Metro going ahead. The Childrens Hospital went from a projected €1bn last February to €1.4bn right now with some people projecting it is going to go even higher than that. They said construction inflation has risen 22% since 2016 and this accounts for about half of the €400m increase with the rest due to higher specs and plan redesigns.

AFAIR the current Metro projection is circa €3bn. At a minimum you would say it should be risen by the 22% construction inflation and then with a start date not until 2022 we could be looking at the same again. If it gets to the end of planning in 2021 and suddenly the project looks like costing nigh on €5bn it is going to be very difficult politically to push through. Voters wont get up in arms about the increasing cost of a National Childrens Hospital that benefits all children but they likely will about a €5bn metro line that only benefits a small section of people "up in Dublin"

It certainly hasn't been a good week for infrastructure, what with the example you mention above, the Pairc ui Chaoimh fiasco, crossrail in the UK asking for another couple of billion and (apparently) slated to open well beyond its due date, and also a report that the HS2 project in the UK will go well beyond its orginally projected costs, if it even now happens.

CatInABox

salmocab wrote: »

We already have leap card that works on bus,Luas,dart and some trains but Im not sure how far that goes.
TFI collect all the fares it’s very much the same, or will be when the promised changes come in.

When the system is updated over the next couple of years, it'll be rolled out to everything in the country, including taxis apparently

Muahahaha

Bray Head wrote: »

And what do you think will happen to tax revenues if the economy is booming?

Theres no guarantee the economy will be booming in 2022. Even if it is if construction inflation brings the cost of the project up to circa €5bn it is going to be a very hard sell politically. We dont even have any politicians who are full square behing this project as it is now so if there is any controversy over cost over runs on the same scale as that at the Childrens Hospital and voters kick up about it then I wouldnt be counting on any politician to show leadership to get it through to completion.

madbeanman

CatInABox wrote: »

TFI is already the integrated brand in Ireland, and it's starting to become more prominent recently. All the new buses have a TFI sign on them, as do all the Leapcards.

I know I’m going way off topic and apologise but who is in charge of TFI?

Qrt

madbeanman wrote: »

I know I’m going way off topic and apologise but who is in charge of TFI?

The NTA. It’s just a brand, there’s no TFI entity really.