Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

MJohnston

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Yes, that could work. I'd get on a tram at Cherrywood, change onto a metro at Sandyford, then get out at your proposed metro stop at Charlemont and walk the last few minutes to my job in the Harcourt Centre.

It's certainly not an improvement over my current journey, but I could do it, and the extra walking would probably do me good. The heart, and stuff.

Though I read somewhere - indeed on this very thread, thanks to the poster jd - that they're thinking of having a metro/LUAS interchange at Beechwood, not at Charlemont.

How's that going to improve my journey?

You're such a disingenuous poster. You know full well there will be Metro stops at SSG, and O'Connell Street that will also interchange with Luas.

What you're describing about Beechwood/Charlemont is merely the *first* Luas stop heading north that would interchange with Metro. Doesn't mean you would *have to* change there.

In either case, your journey is better because eof journey times being faster and capacity being Higher. The further you travel north also, the greater the time savings (Sandyford to OCS on Metro is going to be a huge amount faster than the Luas)

prunudo

All these what if journey options are pointless. Until they release the new route and design nobody knows what stations will be kept or altered.

strassenwo!f

MJohnston wrote: »

You're such a disingenuous poster. You know full well there will be Metro stops at SSG, and O'Connell Street that will also interchange with Luas.

What you're describing about Beechwood/Charlemont is merely the *first* Luas stop heading north that would interchange with Metro. Doesn't mean you would *have to* change there.

In either case, your journey is better because eof journey times being faster and capacity being Higher. The further you travel north also, the greater the time savings (Sandyford to OCS on Metro is going to be a huge amount faster than the Luas)

It is surely a reasonable question to ask the board how a person living south of Sandyford would get to the Harcourt Centre, or the area around that, under the proposed new arrangement. The Harcourt centre is possibly the highest density employment block in the whole of south Dublin, or even Dublin as a whole.

At the moment, every person along the Green LUAS can get there without a change. Under the proposed new system it might require two changes. There's Nothing disingenous about that question, or anything else I've written on this board.

Are you proposing that people would travel to St. Stephen's Green, go up an escalator, walk across one side of the Green and take a LUAS to the Harcourt centre? This is a journey which they can currently do directly.

Upgrading the southside green line to a metro, at this stage, would be, in my opinion, an error. It's not going to significantly cut journey times into the city, and the capacity issues could be dealt with by following what other European cities are doing with their trams.

Sam Russell

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It is surely a reasonable question to ask the board how a person living south of Sandyford would get to the Harcourt Centre, or the area around that, under the proposed new arrangement. The Harcourt centre is possibly the highest density employment block in the whole of south Dublin, or even Dublin as a whole.

At the moment, every person along the Green LUAS can get there without a change. Under the proposed new system it might require two changes. There's Nothing disingenous about that question, or anything else I've written on this board.

Are you proposing that people would travel to St. Stephen's Green, go up an escalator, walk across one side of the Green and take a LUAS to the Harcourt centre? This is a journey which they can currently do directly.

Upgrading the southside green line to a metro, at this stage, would be, in my opinion, an error. It's not going to significantly cut journey times into the city, and the capacity issues could be dealt with by following what other European cities are doing with their trams.

Probably the largest journey generator is the Airport. Metro will provide a massive improvement for many many people who live near the GL and travel to the airport.

Nearly every journey will be greatly improved with a minority made slightly more difficult, with maybe an extra change or a slightly longer walk.

The Harcourt Centre is a 6 min walk from Charlemont and an 11 min walk from SSG. With higher frequency, shorter travel time, and more capacity, the walk might be welcome. I wonder how many people working in the Harcourt Centre live south of Sandyford and travel in on the GL?

salmocab

Strassenwolf has purposely picked a journey that could conceivably depending on the final layout take an extra couple of minutes using a hypothetical commuter.
It ignores all the other extra journeys that become doable and in fact way quicker than what’s currently available.
So if the guy working in harcourt is possibly spending an extra 2 minutes commuting then so be it because I hear that he has a daughter in DCU and his son works as a baggage handler in the airport, neither can afford cars but they don’t mind as they have great links to where they need to be compared to before the metro was put in.

antoinolachtnai

There is also a reality that without ML, the punter south of sandyford May not be able to get on a Luas at a time that suits. The trams will just be too congested at the peak time.

Sam Russell

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is also a reality that without ML, the punter south of sandyford May not be able to get on a Luas at a time that suits. The trams will just be too congested at the peak time.

It is north of Sandyford that will be congested in the norning rush (for north bound trams), and south bound trams will be congested from CC for the evening rush.

strassenwo!f

Sam Russell wrote: »

Probably the largest journey generator is the Airport. Metro will provide a massive improvement for many many people who live near the GL and travel to the airport.

Nearly every journey will be greatly improved with a minority made slightly more difficult, with maybe an extra change or a slightly longer walk.

The Harcourt Centre is a 6 min walk from Charlemont and an 11 min walk from SSG. With higher frequency, shorter travel time, and more capacity, the walk might be welcome. I wonder how many people working in the Harcourt Centre live south of Sandyford and travel in on the GL?

Almost nobody is travelling between the southside Green line and the Airport on a daily basis. Anybody who works at the Airport, and has to go there daily, sensibly lives in Swords or Malahide, or somewhere around there.

The proposed metro will assuredly be a boon for them, as it will be for much of Dublin.

prunudo

strassenwo!f wrote: »

The proposed metro will assuredly be a boon for them, as it will be for much of Dublin.

Never thought I'd see the day, a positive post about Metrolink.

vrusinov

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Almost nobody is travelling between the southside Green line and the Airport on a daily basis. Anybody who works at the Airport, and has to go there daily, sensibly lives in Swords or Malahide, or somewhere around there.

I'm sure there will be more people from southside working in airport If there was a convenient commuter link there.

strassenwo!f

salmocab wrote: »

Strassenwolf has purposely picked a journey that could conceivably depending on the final layout take an extra couple of minutes using a hypothetical commuter.
It ignores all the other extra journeys that become doable and in fact way quicker than what’s currently available.
So if the guy working in harcourt is possibly spending an extra 2 minutes commuting then so be it because I hear that he has a daughter in DCU and his son works as a baggage handler in the airport, neither can afford cars but they don’t mind as they have great links to where they need to be compared to before the metro was put in.

I'm not sure I'm getting all of that, particularly the bit about the daughter and the son.

I don't own a car, because I live in a city with excellent public transport

marno21

There would be more net journeys from the Luas Green Line to the airport than from Cherrywood to Harcourt Street. Just not the same people every day, but still a sizeable amount of people

Added to the fact that having Metro in place makes living along the route attractive for anyone working along the route, including the Airport

Plus, plan for the future not the present - https://www.dublinairport.com/dublin-airport-central

salmocab

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm getting all of that, particularly the bit about the daughter and the son.

I don't own a car, because I live in a city with excellent public transport

My point which I’m full sure you did actually get is that whilst it is possible that a small amount of people going north on the current green line may have slightly longer commutes of an extra 2/3 minutes there will be a lot more who can start using the metro as it services places north side that would currently be a hassle to get to from South Dublin.

Regards your lack of car ownership I don’t know why you felt the need to post that it’s completely irrelevant.

Sam Russell

Dublin Airport has 16,000 employees and an average daily throughput of 9,000 passengers, I would think a sizeable number would travel on the Metro, and many from south of CC. Add DCU, the Mater, and the connection at Whitworth Rd, I think there would be many more travelling from south of Beechwood to those locations than would be bothered by the extra few minutes walk involved with the Harcout Centre.

If it is built as currently planned, everyone currently making political football (including Na Fianna) out of it will wonder what they were complaining about, and how wonderful it has turned out, and when will Metro II be built.

Stephen Strange

Sam Russell wrote: »

Dublin Airport has 16,000 employees and an average daily throughput of 9,000 passengers, I would think a sizeable number would travel on the Metro, and many from south of CC.

I'm assuming you meant 90,000 passengers per day? Average is closer to that, although I'll accept quite a lot would be from outside Dublin.

marno21

Stephen Strange wrote: »

I'm assuming you meant 90,000 passengers per day? Average is closer to that, although I'll accept quite a lot would be from outside Dublin.

Indeed he forgot a zero.

It's also worth remembering that that figure is growing year on year and has done since 2010

strassenwo!f

salmocab wrote: »

My point which I’m full sure you did actually get is that whilst it is possible that a small amount of people going north on the current green line may have slightly longer commutes of an extra 2/3 minutes there will be a lot more who can start using the metro as it services places north side that would currently be a hassle to get to from South Dublin.

Regards your lack of car ownership I don’t know why you felt the need to post that it’s completely irrelevant.

No I didn't understand your earlier post. It was totally incomprehensible.

I'll get back to this post when and if I have time.

salmocab

strassenwo!f wrote: »

No I didn't understand your earlier post. It was totally incomprehensible.

I'll get back to this post when and if I have time.

You really do love trying to insult people. When and if? Well I’m sure we are all looking forward to when you have a few minutes to keep repeating yourself.

strassenwo!f

jvan wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day, a positive post about Metrolink.

I am broadly in favour of the northside part of the metrolink proposal, but I feel there is much to be squeezed out of the southside Green luas, as a tram line, over the next 25 years or so, before it needs to be upgraded to a metro.

marno21

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I am broadly in favour of the northside part of the metrolink proposal, but I feel there is much to be squeezed out of the southside Green luas, as a tram line, over the next 25 years or so, before it needs to be upgraded to a metro.

Yes, and the agencies behind the Luas system have spent time and money looking into it and have come to the conclusion that it's not feasible. If the Luas Green Line was upgradable beyond current capacity (and beyond the ongoing upgrade), then they would be getting to work on that immediately rather than concentrating on Metrolink which won't be operational for another 8 years.

antoinolachtnai

strassenwo!f wrote: »

jvan wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day, a positive post about Metrolink.

I am broadly in favour of the northside part of the metrolink proposal, but I feel there is much to be squeezed out of the southside Green luas, as a tram line, over the next 25 years or so, before it needs to be upgraded to a metro.

You keep saying that. You never really justify it with a coherent idea for how to further ‘squeeze’ it

(Other than a plan that would cost almost as much and cause more disruption than the part of the Metrolink project that you object to. )

LeinsterDub

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I am broadly in favour of the northside part of the metrolink proposal, but I feel there is much to be squeezed out of the southside Green luas, as a tram line, over the next 25 years or so, before it needs to be upgraded to a metro.

And you say that despite the fact it's had to upgraded twice in the last 15 years?

AngryLips

Why would anyone take issue with needing to change twice when getting from beyond Sandyford to city centre with ML vs current Luas arrangement? Almost everyone would not choose to change twice because the fact is every Luas stop is within the catchment area of the next Luas stop. In the city centre Metrolink stops are, at furthest, one stop away from anyone's original destination Luas stop. The time added by walking the extra bit is going to be taken away by the faster journey time of fewer stops on Metrolink vs original Green Luas

cgcsb

If you're commuting from some point south of Sandyford to Harcourt the current theoretical journey is better facilitated. However that's purely theoretical because in the do-nothing scenario for the green line 10 years from now, hardly anyone will be able to get on the green line north of Sandyford.

prunudo

Infuriated here listening to Pat Kenny on Newstalk continually calling it Metro north, saying the green line will be closed for 2 years, they should just extend from broombridge to the airport etc etc. Asking why we need a tram line and metro basically underneath it and in the same breathe complaining about the over capacity.
2 guests with him and neither picking him up on the mis information. Is it any wonder nothing gets built when there is this crap being spouted in the media.

Ps. And then he's reading out comments about building mag lev monorails and elevated trainlines!

NTA needs to get out and up their pr if they want to sell this project.

FreudianSlippers

Metrolink does need to be built and the green line does need to be upgraded to Metro, but other than cost, is there a reason to combine the two projects?

AlmightyCushion

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Metrolink does need to be built and the green line does need to be upgraded to Metro, but other than cost, is there a reason to combine the two projects?

Isn't cost a good enough reason? You're saving money and getting a better system put in place. I would think so. If you do the metro section first then you have to build a big ass station with storage facilities and turnback facilities at the end point which will all be underground and that will cost a lot of money. Then once you extend it to include the green line, those facilities you spent a fortune on are pointless because you'll have to have those in Sandyford once you complete the green line tie in.

If you do the green line upgrade first you have a high capacity metro that goes from Sandyford to where ever the tie in is with metro which would be around charlemont. So, you have a high capacity metro bringing people from sandyford and dropping them further outside the city centre than the original green line did. You solve capacity issues further out but then you have a load of people getting off the metro at charlemont and switching to a much lower capacity luas. It's a stupid idea. You still have the problem above with needing turnback facilities at charlemont that won't be needed once the metro gets extended.

FreudianSlippers

I think fretting about cost is partially what got our transport infrastructure into the state it's in at the moment. However, I accept the remaining points raised.

tom1ie

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Isn't cost a good enough reason? You're saving money and getting a better system put in place. I would think so. If you do the metro section first then you have to build a big ass station with storage facilities and turnback facilities at the end point which will all be underground and that will cost a lot of money. Then once you extend it to include the green line, those facilities you spent a fortune on are pointless because you'll have to have those in Sandyford once you complete the green line tie in.

If you do the green line upgrade first you have a high capacity metro that goes from Sandyford to where ever the tie in is with metro which would be around charlemont. So, you have a high capacity metro bringing people from sandyford and dropping them further outside the city centre than the original green line did. You solve capacity issues further out but then you have a load of people getting off the metro at charlemont and switching to a much lower capacity luas. It's a stupid idea. You still have the problem above with needing turnback facilities at charlemont that won't be needed once the metro gets extended.

Why do you need to build a big ass station with turnaround facilities? Can you not just put in a set of points that allow the metro swap tracks and then the metro is pulled from its opposite end? Why do we need a huge turnaround loop built?

prunudo

tom1ie wrote: »

Why do you need to build a big ass station with turnaround facilities? Can you not just put in a set of points that allow the metro swap tracks and then the metro is pulled from its opposite end? Why do we need a huge turnaround loop built?

Neither are ideal if they plan to operate the trains at high frequency.