Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

prunudo

When was the projected construction start date for Metro link? Surely 3 years minimum before they need electrical engineers. The fact is, the NTA and Bord planala are under staffed and the projects are getting delayed before construction even starts.
I understand that the hospital is going to cause huge budgetary problems but in fairness to transport projects they generally come in on time and budget these days.
FG don't like spending money but they can't keep delaying important infrastructure projects, as the country badly needs them.

salmocab

The metro is the sort of project an engineer would love to be involved in, the more senior ones will likely be ones involved in underground projects elsewhere before and brought in. This is a non issue it’s that fool getting excuses in early.

madbeanman

Sorry cant build anything because the country is broke.
Sorry cant build anything because we have too much employment and there is a skills shortage which is driving up the cost of labour.

Sooooo is there a magic unemployment number that will lead to decreased labour prices that will enable large infrastructure projects to be built???

Such a ridiculous statement by the minister.

Sam Russell

From the IT. Wed, Jan 16, 2019

Shane Ross rules out multi-tolling on M50 to tackle congestion
Minister believes public transport and variable speed limits key to tackling issue

Mr Ross said Luas Cross City, which became fully operational last year, was one of a number of interconnected public transport plans for the greater Dublin area and Bus Connects, Park and Ride projects and future Luas lines would all help to remove traffic from the M50.

Funny - he does not mention the €3 billion project of Metrolink - has he forgotten it is in his bag?

MJohnston

I guess he also forgot he was opposing BusConnects in his own constituency.

Grandeeod

I don't post here much anymore and that's because I was frequently told off for being very negative. Now despite that negativity and what I base it on, how do folks feel about the potential delivery of Metrolink? Will it happen? Will it be dragged out until there is absolutely no money? Are we heading for yet another Government fudge? Serious answers only.

Idbatterim

They’ll be preying fpr another recession and they can then build a segregated footpath and cycle way from swords via the airport to Town. Way cheaper and more environmentally friendly ...

Kellyconor1982

Think it will be delivered about 2030. It will be a great service and there will then be demand for metro lines in other parts of the city that really deserve it like knocklyon and rathfarnham. They will get lines about 2040.
20 years too late.....

Kevtherev1

Grandeeod wrote: »

I don't post here much anymore and that's because I was frequently told off for being very negative. Now despite that negativity and what I base it on, how do folks feel about the potential delivery of Metrolink? Will it happen? Will it be dragged out until there is absolutely no money? Are we heading for yet another Government fudge? Serious answers only.

Well i think the metrolink will still happen but will be delayed with construction in 2022 to 2028. The previous and current govt have delayed and run out of options to cancel or delay but they will have to build it, or else the city will grind to a halt in future with congestion. result and almighty rage of the electorate and business vested interests.



While previous transport projects have been on time and budget this current children's hospital overspend debacle makes me wonder will there be similar overspends and poor project management with metrolink.


They must get some competent outsiders to build and manage the project. Delivery of badly needed infrastructure is an election issue and should be stated to all political muppets who come to our doorsteps in 2019 and beyond

MJohnston

I think it's rare for an Irish government not to be building at least one infrastructure project, even half-assedly. I think this will be the one, I think it's become unavoidable. It's notable that there is political opposition only to small details of this plan, not to the entirety of it.

tom1ie

Grandeeod wrote: »

I don't post here much anymore and that's because I was frequently told off for being very negative. Now despite that negativity and what I base it on, how do folks feel about the potential delivery of Metrolink? Will it happen? Will it be dragged out until there is absolutely no money? Are we heading for yet another Government fudge? Serious answers only.

Honestly, I don’t think it’s going to happen. We won’t get a tbm in the ground by the time the next downturn occurs, at that stage it will be an easy target to be cancelled due to cost saving and politicians can blame vested interests (nimbys) for delaying the project.
By the way I think the same will happen with bc infrastructure (spines) and the dart electrification roll out.
The children’s hospital will also consume vast amounts of funds so our capital budget will be shot to bits by the time external factors will bring about the next downturn.
Very pessimistic I know! Sorry!

cgcsb

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Well i think the metrolink will still happen but will be delayed with construction in 2022 to 2028. The previous and current govt have delayed and run out of options to cancel or delay but they will have to build it, or else the city will grind to a halt in future with congestion. result and almighty rage of the electorate and business vested interests.



While previous transport projects have been on time and budget this current children's hospital overspend debacle makes me wonder will there be similar overspends and poor project management with metrolink.


They must get some competent outsiders to build and manage the project. Delivery of badly needed infrastructure is an election issue and should be stated to all political muppets who come to our doorsteps in 2019 and beyond

I think the lesson here is that BAM needn't be considered for any future projects. Their track record for failing to deliver within budget speaks for it's self. As for the competent outsiders comment, all large engineering and consultancy firms are international companies with bases in Ireland.

salmocab

cgcsb wrote: »

I think the lesson here is that BAM needn't be considered for any future projects. Their track record for failing to deliver within budget speaks for it's self. As for the competent outsiders comment, all large engineering and consultancy firms are international companies with bases in Ireland.

Not sure how much of this I would lay at BAMs door, the hearing the other day was very enlightening about how the children’s hospital was very badly costed at the start. The original costings had no relevance to what’s being planned currently. At one stage they said they knew they would need cable but didn’t know how much of it. It’s been a farce.

Idbatterim

Best case scenario, it gets built as planned ASAP. I’m just hoping the sheer amount of construction going on in Dublin makes it impossible for them to shelve when the downturn comes. like another poster said the gridlock gets so bad, that the public won’t tolerate it being shelved. They can shelve any number of other bull**** by way of comparison schemes at that stage of needs be ... hundreds of million euro motorway projects that carry a fraction of what that rail line will for example...

salmocab

Idbatterim wrote: »

Best case scenario, it gets built as planned ASAP. I’m just hoping the sheer amount of construction going on in Dublin makes it impossible for them to shelve when the downturn comes. like another poster said the gridlock gets so bad, that the public won’t tolerate it being shelved. They can shelve any number of other bull**** by way of comparison schemes at that stage of needs be ... hundreds of million euro motorway projects that carry a fraction of what that rail line will for example...

We are very bad at making PT an election issue. We need huge amounts of people getting at politicians in Dublin to push these things through. Unfortunately we tend to push against small things rather than push for big things. Politicians must love it because it makes their lives easy.

CatInABox

salmocab wrote: »

We are very bad at making PT an election issue. We need huge amounts of people getting at politicians in Dublin to push these things through. Unfortunately we tend to push against small things rather than push for big things. Politicians must love it because it makes their lives easy.

To be honest, we don't need people pushing for it, we need multinational companies pushing for it. If a few major companies started saying they'd scale back investment here if PT and housing didn't improve, the government would sign the contracts the next day.

salmocab

CatInABox wrote: »

To be honest, we don't need people pushing for it, we need multinational companies pushing for it. If a few major companies started saying they'd scale back investment here if PT and housing didn't improve, the government would sign the contracts the next day.

Fair point, maybe sales force should have made today’s announcement with mention of it. That would focus minds.

Kellyconor1982

I think it will be built. If it's a FG government, they will look like complete clowns if it doesn't. My sense is that it will be a world class line when it opens and they will take the credit for this and this is what they want. Political influence (from many in FG like the great leo and paschal) and powerful nimby groups will delay it for several years - my guess is two to three years. The area around Ranelagh would have a lot of powerful and influential people that could delay it and the likes of Leo with his PR spin won't want to upset them. Fianna Fail are a bunch of chancers but to be fair they are generally more into big projects than FG, so they won't pull the plug either. I don't see any other party in government personally.

The bigger picture is that we should be not just thinking of this line, but future lines, like an SW corridor and a metro west type line. Yes, it would cost a lot of money, but we are not meeting our environmental targets and will be fined substantially for this in the future, so this would go a long way. The other issue is that it improves the quality of life of our citizens, whether they are travelling from Rathgar, or further out like Knocklyon or Sandyford, let alone people from Meath/Wicklow/Kildare using it and parking in big park and rides.
Investment in these lines, in addition to a Dart Underground, improvements on intercity lines and a luas style line in Cork are absolute no brainers.

Zebra3

CatInABox wrote: »

To be honest, we don't need people pushing for it, we need multinational companies pushing for it. If a few major companies started saying they'd scale back investment here if PT and housing didn't improve, the government would sign the contracts the next day.

I fully agree with you.

And that will tell you a lot about how our so-called democracy works.

Or, should I say, operates.

tom1ie

Kellyconor1982 wrote: »

I think it will be built. If it's a FG government, they will look like complete clowns if it doesn't. My sense is that it will be a world class line when it opens and they will take the credit for this and this is what they want. Political influence (from many in FG like the great leo and paschal) and powerful nimby groups will delay it for several years - my guess is two to three years. The area around Ranelagh would have a lot of powerful and influential people that could delay it and the likes of Leo with his PR spin won't want to upset them. Fianna Fail are a bunch of chancers but to be fair they are generally more into big projects than FG, so they won't pull the plug either. I don't see any other party in government personally.

The bigger picture is that we should be not just thinking of this line, but future lines, like an SW corridor and a metro west type line. Yes, it would cost a lot of money, but we are not meeting our environmental targets and will be fined substantially for this in the future, so this would go a long way. The other issue is that it improves the quality of life of our citizens, whether they are travelling from Rathgar, or further out like Knocklyon or Sandyford, let alone people from Meath/Wicklow/Kildare using it and parking in big park and rides.
Investment in these lines, in addition to a Dart Underground, improvements on intercity lines and a luas style line in Cork are absolute no brainers.

Unfortunately they don’t care if they look like complete clowns, as they know that if they get voted out they’ll be back in power again soon enough as the other shower are just as incompetent!

marno21

The modified plan for this should be out in the next 3/4 weeks going by the NTA from before Christmas. The sooner the better.

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

The modified plan for this should be out in the next 3/4 weeks going by the NTA from before Christmas. The sooner the better.

Reading the Metrolink report next steps, once this plan is out, they prepare an Environmental Impact Assessment Report and a Railway Order. They then send these to An Bord Plenala, at which point there's another consultation as part of the ABP process.

As you say, the sooner the better.

Bray Head

The issue is that it is likely that only 2 or 3 cabinet members will still be cabinet members when ML is opened in 2028. Maybe none at all.

CatInABox

Bray Head wrote: »

The issue is that it is likely that only 2 or 3 cabinet members will still be cabinet members when ML is opened in 2028. Maybe none at all.

Indeed. The best hope for Metrolink politically speaking is for Fine Geal to get reelected, and for Leo to stay on. He's young enough that he could actually see the entire project out, and you just know that he'd love for slang name for the Metrolink to be the "Leo Line" or something just like it.

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

Indeed. The best hope for Metrolink politically speaking is for Fine Geal to get reelected, and for Leo to stay on. He's young enough that he could actually see the entire project out, and you just know that he'd love for slang name for the Metrolink to be the "Leo Line" or something just like it.

Or the Micheal Metro - if there were a change of party.

CatInABox

Kinda unrelated, but Noel Rock is calling for a 24 hour bus route out to the Airport and Swords after he heard about the 24 hour bus route started up in Cork. This is how Irish politics deals with investment in public transport in Ireland, only after they see it working elsewhere in Ireland do people start calling for more. This is why I think that getting the Metrolink up and running will result in more Metro lines not just being planned by the NTA and talked about on places like boards, but demanded by politicians and the public.

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

Kinda unrelated, but Noel Rock is calling for a 24 hour bus route out to the Airport and Swords after he heard about the 24 hour bus route started up in Cork. This is how Irish politics deals with investment in public transport in Ireland, only after they see it working elsewhere in Ireland do people start calling for more. This is why I think that getting the Metrolink up and running will result in more Metro lines not just being planned by the NTA and talked about on places like boards, but demanded by politicians and the public.

Maybe they should have just called Luas - or maybe Luas Airport. The original plan for Luas red line had an underground section IIRC.

LeinsterDub

CatInABox wrote: »

To be honest, we don't need people pushing for it, we need multinational companies pushing for it. If a few major companies started saying they'd scale back investment here if PT and housing didn't improve, the government would sign the contracts the next day.

They've already done so. Lack of PT and housing was one of the primary reasons we didn't win the Brexit banks

Busman Paddy Lasty

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe they should have just called Luas - or maybe Luas Airport. The original plan for Luas red line had an underground section IIRC.

Luas Mór maybe. Can use the M logo to keep stations identifiable to all. Faster/Greater Speed as Gaeilge and be understood as Metro/'Big Luas' to others.

Sam Russell

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Luas Mór maybe. Can use the M logo to keep stations identifiable to all. Faster/Greater Speed as Gaeilge and be understood as Metro/'Big Luas' to others.

I like it.