Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Lord Glentoran

Colm MacCarthy rides his hobby horse again. This is why Official Ireland pisses around getting anything done due to BANANAs like Colm. Don’t be like Colm.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-mccarthy/colm-mccarthy-metro-link-figures-simply-dont-add-up-36615041.html

Mod: This piece is from 18 th Feb 2018.

Sam Russell

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Colm MacCarthy rides his hobby horse again. This is why Official Ireland pisses around getting anything done due to BANANAs like Colm. Don’t be like Colm.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-mccarthy/colm-mccarthy-metro-link-figures-simply-dont-add-up-36615041.html

[Above article is from 18 th Feb 2018 - so old. - only noticed]

Of course, if you think it is a tram line, then that is a problem.

It would only build one more hospital if the National Children's Hospital is an example of the cost of hospitals - do not forget that the National Maternity Hospital has not been tendered for yet.

He really is a plonker if he thinks a tram line could do the work of Metrolink.

He misses the point that the Metrolink provides links with Dart, the Phoenix Park tunnel services, will link with the DU project (if that happens) and links DCU, Mater Hospital, OCS, SSG, as well as Sandyford with a high capacity metro line with segregated high frequency lines that will provide reliable travel times.

prunudo

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Colm MacCarthy rides his hobby horse again. This is why Official Ireland pisses around getting anything done due to BANANAs like Colm. Don’t be like Colm.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-mccarthy/colm-mccarthy-metro-link-figures-simply-dont-add-up-36615041.html

Ah but its Colm, he's been around a long time, is the go to expert for every radio/tv show and great for filling column inches. Surely he knows what he is talking about. :pac:

CatInABox

Sam Russell wrote: »

He really is a plonker if he thinks a tram line could do the work of Metrolink.

He doesn't even suggest that really, he thinks that it's not needed at all, and that Dublin Airport is well served by buses already.

It's one of the most insidious ways of getting your point across, as he's sprinkled half truths throughout the article. If you read it and know nothing about it, then you'd find yourself agreeing with him, of course the airport doesn't need a rail line when it's got a motorway and buses! Of course, it mentions nothing about what else it connects, like all those already mentioned, and nothing about the fact that traffic is already strangling the city.

Sam Russell

jvan wrote: »

Ah but its Colm, he's been around a long time, is the go to expert for every radio/tv show and great for filling column inches. Surely he knows what he is talking about. :pac:

He was not in favour of the Luas service either. He does not mention that in his article.

However, a leading economist, Mr Colm McCarthy, of DKM Consultants, has cast doubt on the viability of the system based on its own projections, pointing out that projected passenger numbers for the two unconnected lines are similar to those for the entire DART system.

Iarnród Éireann has confirmed its DART service between Howth, Malahide, Portmarnock and Greystones carried 21.6 million passengers in 2003.

Well, he got that wrong, didn't he. Could he be wrong again?

jd

Sam Russell wrote: »

He was not in favour of the Luas service either. He does not mention that in his article.

What he does want is another orbital motorway beyond the M50. McCarthy is wedded to his car.

prunudo

It really boils my blood that these so called experts get so much free publicity in the media.
Its not right that these well known figures can constantly get their opinions printed. McCarthy, McDowell and Eamon Ryan have all had anti metro pieces printed recently.
The sooner the NTA get the revised plans out and please God they go on a serious charm offensive.

salmocab

We get the journalism we pay for, as we no longer pay money for media we get journalism that is of a free quality.
Gone are the days of great journalists digging for the scoop.

Lord Glentoran

salmocab wrote: »

We get the journalism we pay for, as we no longer pay money for media we get journalism that is of a free quality.
Gone are the days of great journalists digging for the scoop.

Sure we’ve had crappy articles like this in the Sindo pissing on rail projects since at least the late 70s.. Derek Wheeler on his website reprinted a particularly snide one about the DART by the late Hugh Munro from around 1979, when Howth-Bray was given the go-ahead. Can’t find it at the moment but it is very much in line with the bould Colm’s horse manure.

If much of the commentariat had their way, Dublin would still be built on a four-house to an acre basis, and we’d either be all driving, all hours, while those too poor, too young and too old to drive would be sitting in buses wringing with condensation - if they turned up at all - on infrequent variants on main routes. There would be no economic development either as all they would want would be enough jobs for their own brats but for no one else.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Sam Russell wrote: »

He was not in favour of the Luas service either. He does not mention that in his article.



Well, he got that wrong, didn't he. Could he be wrong again?

Pretty sure he opposed the Dart as well.

EDIT:

Or maybe it was Munro.

CatInABox

The TII have written to around 140 properties to start getting a preliminary survey done on the buildings, according to the Irish Times. It also has the nugget of info that the revised plan will be published next month, so it's good to see that they're roughly on track.

Also in the Irish Times, Alexandra College is opposing the closing of two of their entrances that cross the Luas line. They've even gone so far as to bring in a firm to draw up their objection.

cgcsb

CatInABox wrote: »

The TII have written to around 140 properties to start getting a preliminary survey done on the buildings, according to the Irish Times. It also has the nugget of info that the revised plan will be published next month, so it's good to see that they're roughly on track.

Also in the Irish Times, Alexandra College is opposing the closing of two of their entrances that cross the Luas line. They've even gone so far as to bring in a firm to draw up their objection.

You'd wonder in other countries are people really this small minded/ always thinking in small terms.

prunudo

cgcsb wrote: »

You'd wonder in other countries are people really this small minded/ always thinking in small terms.

They probably are but their complaints might not make it to national media. Is Alexandra College a private school?

salmocab

jvan wrote: »

They probably are but their complaints might not make it to national media. Is Alexandra College a private school?

Yeah it’s private. I have no issue with these objections it’s how they are dealt with that matters. I don’t know the layout of the school but I have seen it from the luas and when there is sport on the back gates are quite busy. They may have legitimate concerns.

CatInABox

jvan wrote: »

They probably are but their complaints might not make it to national media. Is Alexandra College a private school?

It's apparently one of the most expensive in Ireland. Can't see how this will get much traction, a footbridge will maintain access for any students walking, and the drive to the other entrance isn't significant. They'll almost certainly have to play up the "won't someone think of the children" angle, but that's all that they've got really.

prunudo

Well connected parents throwing their weight around. I've no problem with the objections if they some credibility either. But it should be done through the right channels and they should liase with the NTA, not via the media.

marno21

Hmm Dartmouth Square. Are they still planning on running with the Charlemont tie in ?

Dats me

marno21 wrote: »

Hmm Dartmouth Square. Are they still planning on running with the Charlemont tie in ?

John Fitzgerald's article on capital project cost overruns seemed to imply that Charlemont tie-in would have a year-long shut down and the €100m extra beechwood plan was a 3 month shut down. Sounded like they were going to come back to the consultation with an A or B option - seems like it could be a good idea, to frame it as a choice rather than "this is the plan".


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/cost-of-capital-projects-often-rockets-due-to-lofty-notions-1.3753651
"One of the metro options under consideration would involve closing the Luas for at least a year. An alternative, which would cost €100 million more, would close it for three months."


I would be surprised if Beechwood cut-and-cover could be done in 3 months?

antoinolachtnai

Dats me wrote: »

I would be surprised if Beechwood cut-and-cover could be done in 3 months?

Cut and cover bit could be done with line still open I imagine. It could be done in the back gardens adjacent to the line for the most part. Gardens would be restored afterwards.

prunudo

8000 posts and coming up on the 9 year anniversary of when this thread started. Wonder how far along development of a Metro will be by the time it reaches 10,000 and a new thread started.

Pixel Eater

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0123/1024952-childrens-hospital/

I sincerely hope that this isn't used as an excuse to scupper the Metro plans once again.

Sam Russell

Pixel Eater wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0123/1024952-childrens-hospital/

I sincerely hope that this isn't used as an excuse to scupper the Metro plans once again.

I would not think so. The heavy spending is going to be some years off. They are spending €450 k just to find out what went so badly wrong - so no shortage of that kind of money.

Rulmeq

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would not think so. The heavy spending is going to be some years off. They are spending €450 million just to find out what went so badly wrong - so no shortage of that kind of money.

€450k surely?

CatInABox

Rulmeq wrote: »

€450k surely?

Yes, 450k. Ireland hasn't gotten quite that bad yet Sam, give it a few years!

lateconnection

From the Irish Times article on property surveys:

"In Ranelagh, houses on the west side of Dartmouth Square stand to lose parts of their back gardens, while two houses on Dartmouth Road may require demolition."

This appears to imply that the portal at Charlemont is still on the table.


Even though the Charlemont portal proposal would result in a longer closure of the Green Line, I think it will all boil down to cost.

If it is €100m cheaper to build the portal at Charlemont rather than Beechwood, then I'd say that the Charlemont portal will be the final design. In light of recent cost overruns on the National Children's Hospital project, the government will want to keep costs low on MetroLink. The Charlemont portal proposal will allow them to do this.

Dats me

lateconnection wrote: »

From the Irish Times article on property surveys:

"In Ranelagh, houses on the west side of Dartmouth Square stand to lose parts of their back gardens, while two houses on Dartmouth Road may require demolition."

This appears to imply that the portal at Charlemont is still on the table.


Even though the Charlemont portal proposal would result in a longer closure of the Green Line, I think it will all boil down to cost.

If it is €100m cheaper to build the portal at Charlemont rather than Beechwood, then I'd say that the Charlemont portal will be the final design. In light of recent cost overruns on the National Children's Hospital project, the government will want to keep costs low on MetroLink. The Charlemont portal proposal will allow them to do this.

I'm grand with that as long as Leo et al actually drive it through then. I think a sensible solution could be to present both options at the next round of public consultations, therefore allowing Rethink a victory if they go with Beechwood.

Major point against them just going with Charlemont: what's been the delay since August in that case? Story was that it was due to new design work, which would make sense if it was Beechwood.

salmocab

Dats me wrote: »

I'm grand with that as long as Leo et al actually drive it through then. I think a sensible solution could be to present both options at the next round of public consultations, therefore allowing Rethink a victory if they go with Beechwood.

Major point against them just going with Charlemont: what's been the delay since August in that case? Story was that it was due to new design work, which would make sense if it was Beechwood.

There are changes on the north side too to be fair

FreudianSlippers

Pixel Eater wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0123/1024952-childrens-hospital/

I sincerely hope that this isn't used as an excuse to scupper the Metro plans once again.

When I heard the report, I took it to mean other Dept of Health projects... but the thought did cross my mind.

CatInABox

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

When I heard the report, I took it to mean other Dept of Health projects... but the thought did cross my mind.

He said the overrun would require reprofiling of "about 100 million euro worth of capital expenditure this year". Half of this will come from the Department of Health, with the other half coming from other departments

Apparently, it's 50/50. 50 million from all other departments capital spending probably won't affect anything too much, I'd hope.

prunudo

CatInABox wrote: »

Apparently, it's 50/50. 50 million from all other departments capital spending probably won't affect anything too much, I'd hope.

Knowing their form they'll probably take it from the M20 budget, sure it's no benefit to the country!