Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

roadmaster

CatInABox wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not terribly surprised. I'd say the Childrens Hospital has every department looking at ways to reduce money while also making it seem like it's not their fault. This is a ready made excuse to reduce the amount of cash required.

As BK speculated, they'll probably do a crossover coming into Charlemont station.

They'll most likely separate out all the other parts of the upgrade into separate projects, i.e. they'll still do the bridge over St Raphaela's Rd, but it'll won't be part of the any Metrolink upgrade. Eventually, when the Metro line has been brought to Charlemont, and the Green Line is well beyond capacity, people will be begging for a capacity upgrade, and the NTA/Government can say "well, all we need to do now is tie in at Charlemont and it's pretty much done."

A few years of the people of Ranelagh, Beechwood, Cowper, Milltown, Windy Arbour and Dundrum not being able to use the Luas in the morning will change an awful lot of minds. The Rethink Metrolink people won't be able to show their faces around those parts without getting spat on at that stage.

Does residents should go out to cherrywood and see whats being built. The trams will be full by sandyford

CatInABox

roadmaster wrote: »

Does residents should go out to cherrywood and see whats being built. The trams will be full by sandyford

Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers involved go upwards, what with the height regulations changed.

It's such a pointless delay, and that's all it is, a delay. They're not going to reroute the southside section.

salmocab

This govt is a dead duck, what’s really needed is for people to make PT a big issue in Dublin in the coming election.

prunudo

Far to many so called experts, vested interests and mé feiner's being given air time and a platform in the media lately. People throwing hair brained ideas around and not being challenged on facts.
Its very easy to suggest a route through Terenure, Rathfarnham etc when there isn't one in place. I guarantee that if there was a plan to go to the SW it would be held up in objections too.
If they do split Metrolink and don't upgrade Greenline at the same time its a huge missed opportunity and something that will cost us dearly in the future. Political short sightedness in full flow.

LXFlyer

roadmaster wrote: »

Does residents should go out to cherrywood and see whats being built. The trams will be full by sandyford

They will be, but you have to remember that more than half the northbound trams start at Sandyford as it is. They’ll still cope (just about) with the inner section as they do now. The operating pattern on the Green Line won’t change.

The problem will be how the outer section is dealt with - those people will not have sufficient trams. That’s where we will get a repeat (on a much larger scale) of the problems that afflicted the Green Line for six months in 2018 where peak capacity south of Sandyford was severely cut and many people abandoned the service due to not being able to use it.

LeinsterDub

MJohnston wrote: »

Tens of thousands of those people don't live there yet!

And tens of thousands getting on at SSG with suit cases or going to work in the Airport or Sandyford

Lord Glentoran

CatInABox wrote: »

They should run an advertising campaign telling people living Ranelagh to Dundrum to buy a bike and cycle.

“Get your lazy ass into Lycra, Granny” with a grimacing cyclist pointing a finger from a poster.

Now for my €1m consultancy fee

Kermit.de.frog

Varadkar should toss Shane Ross out.

He does nothing except be a pain in the arse.

Nothing has changed in Ireland. Young people should probably get out to be honest.

Beta Ray Bill

Can someone explain something to me

The Metro and the Luas Green line would share the same set of stops after Charlemont heading south right?



If it were to be built, will the Metrolink have it's own set of tracks or will it share the track with the Luas?

4 years of disruption seems like a very long time in either case.

MJohnston

grahambo wrote: »

Can someone explain something to me

The Metro and the Luas Green line would share the same set of stops after Charlemont heading south right?



If it were to be built, will the Metrolink have it's own set of tracks or will it share the track with the Luas?

4 years of disruption seems like a very long time in either case.

The Metrolink would subsume the Green Line between Charlemont and Sandyford, and Luas would continue to run outside of those sections.

The original plan would have involved a couple of months of disruption, not years.

lawred2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Varadkar should toss Shane Ross out.

He does nothing except be a pain in the arse.

Nothing has changed in Ireland. Young people should probably get out to be honest.

100%

A blowhard nimbyist

Beta Ray Bill

MJohnston wrote: »

The Metrolink would subsume the Green Line between Charlemont and Sandyford, and Luas would continue to run outside of those sections.

The original plan would have involved a couple of months of disruption, not years.

So between Charlemont and Sandyford they would share the same piece of track?

So effectively they need a siding at Sandyford and a set of points at Charlemont
How would that even take months let alone years?

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Varadkar should toss Shane Ross out.

He does nothing except be a pain in the arse.

Nothing has changed in Ireland. Young people should probably get out to be honest.

I'm not sure what Shane Ross has done wrong here

If someone should get the blame here, I'd be pointing my finger directly at Eoghan Murphy who is abandoning the needs of a sizeable chunk of his constituents in favour of a few loudmouths who 2 of his constituency colleagues have fully got behind.

It's more important for this Government to get behind Eoghan Murphy than the fully integrated Metrolink.

prunudo

grahambo wrote: »

So between Charlemont and Sandyford they would share the same piece of track?

So effectively they need a siding at Sandyford and a set of points at Charlemont
How would that even take months let alone years?

No there would be 2 seperate greenlines.
-A southern greenline from Cherrywood (possibly Bray in the future) to Sandyford.
-A metro from Sandyford to Swords using existing greenline as far as Charlemont then it would go underground.
-A northern greenline from Charlemont to Broombridge (possibly Finglas in future)


Also on a side note the current Greenline is a victim of its own success in that there is a lot of high density housing south of Dundrum. These residents must go through the low density suburbs further north.
I'm open to correction but I dont think the sw route has similar density so while it may need better public transport it may not have the population to warrant a metro at present at the expense of the greenline upgrade.

BonnieSituation

Waking up to that Irish Times has made my blood pressure rise like you wouldn't believe. I'm beyond furious.

Yet again that generation of 60-something "I'm alright jacks" have scuppered improvements to the lives of younger generations of Dubliners.

Pulling up ladders is the greatest contribution of these leeches to Irish life.

This is literally the death knell of me staying in this city.

The frustration levels are through the roof.

---

That being said I'm hoping that they're misreporting (which is not beyond them) and that the project will be split with the original Charlemont tie-in implemented.

cgcsb

Hope it's not true. If it is emigration might be a better option. You can't buy a home and you can't commute is the message. Young folks should just leave and let establishment boomers wallow in their consumption.

The Department should get the NIMBYS along the green line to sign a document saying they don't want an improved rail service and don't mind if the situation isn't revised for another 50 years. They can either sign or have it built, simple choice.


Absolutely infuriating.

marno21

cgcsb wrote: »

Hope it's not true. If it is emigration might be a better option. You can't buy a home and you can't commute is the message. Young folks should just leave and let establishment boomers wallow in their consumption.

The Department should get the NIMBYS along the green line to sign a document saying they don't want an improved rail service and don't mind if the situation isn't revised for another 50 years. They can either sign or have it built, simple choice.


Absolutely infuriating.

The people behind this campaign will not be the people who will have to live with the long term consequences. Look at them on Twitter, all 1950s/1960s spec. BonnieSituations post above reflects this too

lawred2

marno21 wrote: »

The people behind this campaign will not be the people who will have to live with the long term consequences. Look at them on Twitter, all 1950s/1960s spec. BonnieSituations post above reflects this too

Same age cohort who voted for Brexit in the UK.

They love pissing on the generations that follow.

Idbatterim

They are morons. But it’s government cowardice as usual ... Christ has anyone ever been more full of hot air than varadkar?

I’ve said it all along, They won’t do anything until everything hits crisis level. Key people in this project should walk unless they keep original plan in my opinion ...

They will have their road kept open. Delays will likely cost tens of millions per month minimum in construction inflation, build it ASAP if they actually do care about cost.

Looking forward to grandeeod comments. A realist about this absolute banana republic!

A few hundred homes will be built on the Jesuit site on Milltown road too, the residents around there are going to love that , lol!

Also why weren’t the nta countering the lies. As usual , they partially have themselves to blame!

On the plus side, it’s more likely the project goes ahead with high floor and longer platforms and is done properly.

Wait till the total **** hits the fan on the green line and the same morons will be out complaining!

schemingbohemia

If the Irish Times story is true then the NTA should be disbanded, one of the main reasons it was set up was to give politicians cover for unpopular decisions and to be immune to NIMBYISM.
This would literally be kicking the sardine can down the road - knowing that the southern part of the Green line would not be fit for purpose within 5 years.

I went sale agreed on a house just off Dunville Avenue, it fell through due to survey issues. This whole rubbish about detours for a few clowns who'd be quicker walking around the "Berlin Wall" was bonkers.

Pixel Eater

The NTA are beyond useless. Do they even have any sort of communications person?! I've literally haven't heard a peep from them; they've just let the NIMBYs clog the airwaves with their disinformation.

Idbatterim

Pixel Eater wrote: »

The NTA are beyond useless. Do they even have any sort of communications person?! I've literally haven't heard a peep from them; they've just let the NIMBYs clog the airwaves with their disinformation.

This has been raided multiple times on this thread. This is what you are dealing with here, it was obvious a lot of rubbish would be talked. Any one to counter it ? No... on a multi billion project, it’s laughable ...

peter1892

And here we go again...another good public transport proposal for Dublin gets badly hamstrung/canned. The original DART plans, original LUAS, Metro North, DART Underground and now this one.

None of them were perfect (and I'd argue that Metrolink was the option that the Green line should have been all along) but now we can enjoy reflecting upon these things from the comfort of our single occupier cars, waiting in line on the M50/N11/Rock road etc, wasting money and time.

I could have been a 'home to work in under an hour on public transport at peak times with just one change' contender

cgcsb

I've been advocating for benign technocratic dictatorship for years. People are stupid as a collective and Irish boomers interests only extend as far as their hedge.

Idbatterim

Put most if not all the blame on government and nta though ...

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

Put most if not all the blame on government and nta though ...

Well if it's true it's more likely that the government wants to shave a few tens of millions off the capital cost because of the Children's hospital. If it happens, the consultants could easily walk though, and we'd be back to square one.

vrusinov

FWIW, if downsizing the project makes it easier & faster to implement I'll welcome it. I'd rather have half of metrolink soon rather than having it spend ages in redesign stages. IMO the most important aspect of it is linking airport with CC, and current proposal will deliver that.

If this smaller project succeeds it will hopefully trigger demand for an upgrade, so tie-in with green line or maybe completely new line south-west could be in agenda in a soon after north part is delivered.

It will be also interesting to see how it will affect neighborhoods. If north will have good public transport, more high earners will start moving there, so I guess north will be posh now?

dubhthach

Cherrywood development is suppose to house something like 25k people when complete. Good luck getting on a inbound LUAS after Glencairn once it's fully finished.

Eamon Ryan on the radio complaining that money is been spent widening access roads to Dublin, yet at same time complaining about expanding capacity on Green light route, couldn't make this stuff up ffs.

bk

As terrible as this news is, this bit at least gives me some comfort:

In a major change to plans published last year, the line, that will for the first time connect Dublin Airport to the city centre by rail, will still run from Swords to the city, but is likely to stop north of Ranelagh at Charlemont.

At least they seem to be still going to Charlemont, rather then just SSG as per the original Metro North plan.

This says to me that they still plan to eventually do the Green Line upgrade, just at a future point.

So what will happen now:
- Northen section opens, is a massive success, everyone loves it.
- Green Line Luas deteriorates over the next 10 years until it becomes completely unusable for those north of Sandyford and probably even overcrowded for those south of it.
- Seeing how good the Metro is in comparison and what they could have had, these people will scream bloody murder and demand the Green Line be upgraded to Metro. These voices will end up drowning out a couple of old people in Dunville Avenue, etc.
- The green line will eventually be upgraded to Metro as was planned.

Same thing as happened with Luas Cross City, it will just take longer and cost more.

Of course by still going to Charlemont, they won't actually save hardly any money, the tie-in and platform upgrades would have been a drop in the overall cost of the project and it will clearly make the CBA worse.

But if it makes it politically less difficult and easier to get done, then so be it.

schemingbohemia

dubhthach wrote: »

Cherrywood development is suppose to house something like 25k people when complete. Good luck getting on a inbound LUAS after Glencairn once it's fully finished.

Eamon Ryan on the radio complaining that money is been spent widening access roads to Dublin, yet at same time complaining about expanding capacity on Green light route, couldn't make this stuff up ffs.

Exactly this! We're finally doing some decent clever planning like in Cherrywood and then hamstringing it before it's even completed because of a few Senior Councils in Ranelagh!