Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

marno21

If this is going to be Swords-Charlemont with total segregation then high floor driverless is surely a no brainer.

Fian

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/0221/1031984-metrolink/

Shane Ross in the Dáil suggesting will stop at Charlemont.

Idbatterim

“If this is going to be Swords-Charlemont with total segregation then high floor driverless is surely a no brainer.”

Have you learned nothing?! Lol!

MJohnston

What did Shane Ross actually say though? That RTE article spins a lot of the journalists words around a short quote from Ross that doesn't mention a single thing about Charlemont.

In fact, if the quotes are all he said, I could easily use them to form a different narrative:

Ross promises MetroLink construction will not involve four year closure

Minister for Transport Shane Ross has given guarantees that the chosen route of MetroLink will not cause disruption to the Luas Green line in south Dublin.

Speaking to Fake News, he said: "The Government and I will not countenance a situation where there is a closure of a major infrastructural project, because it would be for a long period of time.

"The idea that we could close a vein or an artery into a major city for four years is completely and utterly unacceptable, or for two years is unacceptable.

"And I won't countenance any project that comes up with a proposal that inconveniences commuters to that extent or to any extent which is even comparable to that.

"It's out of orbit the four years and it won't be happening."

CatInABox

Yeah, sounds like a three month disruption could still be OK with him. If that's where all of these reports are coming from, and it's still going ahead, I'll be very disappointed in the abilities of Irish journalists.

Sam Russell

marno21 wrote: »

Dublin Bay South is a very tight constituency and with all of the opposition TDs hopping on the NIMBY bandwagon obviously FG feel the need to do the same for fear it could cost them one of their 2 seats there. Kevin Humphreys who only just lost out on a seat the last time around has been vocal on the Metrolink issue.

I live in the Dublin Bay South constituency and all the local candidates are hopping onto this rickety bandwagon. O'Callaghan (FF), Ryan (GP), Murphy (FG - Minister) Humphreys (Lab - lost out in last election) plus a few would-be councillors.

They are all quoting from a hymn sheet quoting long shutdown, unnecessary expense, not needed, ripping up the Luas lines - all lies.

It is not just NIMBY types, but parish pump as well.

Fian

I agree with Mjohnston - the quotes do not establish the headline.

Irish times now also announcing that it is set to stop at Charlemont.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/metrolink-southside-section-is-set-to-be-abandoned-1.3800658


this may be "kite flying" to guage public reaction to cancellation vs shutting the road. I imagine a bridge over the junction or a cutting under it would also give rise to significant enough disruption, though obviously not 2 years of disruption.

Dats me

"The real cost of the tunnelling machine is to put it into the ground, once you have it in the ground it's much cheaper to keep it going."

Eamon Ryan keeps saying this. I presume it's complete boll*x? Surely the portal would only cost the same as say 1 station?

dubhthach

Sam Russell wrote: »

I live in the Dublin Bay South constituency and all the local candidates are hopping onto this rickety bandwagon. O'Callaghan (FF), Ryan (GP), Murphy (FG - Minister) Humphreys (Lab - lost out in last election) plus a few would-be councillors.

They are all quoting from a hymn sheet quoting long shutdown, unnecessary expense, not needed, ripping up the Luas lines - all lies.

It is not just NIMBY types, but parish pump as well.

Awh well not one of their constituents will be able to get on a inbound Luas during morning once Cherrywood comes on stream, awh but sure that's well after the next election

Dats me

Sam Russell wrote: »

I live in the Dublin Bay South constituency and all the local candidates are hopping onto this rickety bandwagon. O'Callaghan (FF), Ryan (GP), Murphy (FG - Minister) Humphreys (Lab - lost out in last election) plus a few would-be councillors.

They are all quoting from a hymn sheet quoting long shutdown, unnecessary expense, not needed, ripping up the Luas lines - all lies.

It is not just NIMBY types, but parish pump as well.

Is there any pro-metro candidate? Soc Dems maybe? Would be interesting if we could start giving them a boost online or something if so

hmmm

Dats me wrote: »

Is there any pro-metro candidate? Soc Dems maybe? Would be interesting if we could start giving them a boost online or something if so

Unfortunately the "oppose everything" crowd have unlimited free time while the rest of us are at work. Shame on the TDs for opposing an increase in capacity.

I think Murphy would be the easiest to persuade. How can we possibly go ahead with building high densities along the green line when we know the current system can't cope with the numbers.

marno21

Jim O'Callaghan on Twitter celebrating the Luas line that won't be ripped up

You really are wasting your breath on these people - and you'll need your breath down the road given the pollution caused by all those cars from people who won't be able to get on the Luas due to it being full

salmocab

Dats me wrote: »

"The real cost of the tunnelling machine is to put it into the ground, once you have it in the ground it's much cheaper to keep it going."

Eamon Ryan keeps saying this. I presume it's complete boll*x? Surely the portal would only cost the same as say 1 station?

Well in a sense he’s right once it’s in it makes sense to finish the project, however that’s the plan, he’s suggesting doing a different plan that is waaay more costly than this one and even then it won’t stop this one being needed anyway. If it stops somewhere it’s a massive job to start again as all the materials need to be inserted and the tunnel debris removed through a new portal that’s suddenly in the city and no longer out near the m50.

bk

Dats me wrote: »

"The real cost of the tunnelling machine is to put it into the ground, once you have it in the ground it's much cheaper to keep it going."

Eamon Ryan keeps saying this. I presume it's complete boll*x? Surely the portal would only cost the same as say 1 station?

Complete and utter bollocks.

You basically pay $$$'s for every meter dug. Think about all the spoil that needs to be removed. Think about all the concrete that needs to be poured for the tunnel walls and the really big cost is all the extra underground stations you'd need to build, big cost to those. Tunnelling is expensive.

Fian

Dats me wrote: »

"The real cost of the tunnelling machine is to put it into the ground, once you have it in the ground it's much cheaper to keep it going."

Eamon Ryan keeps saying this. I presume it's complete boll*x? Surely the portal would only cost the same as say 1 station?

I guess there is a reason nobody is proposing and underground link from dublin airport to Galway and Cork

Stephen15

It simply has to be high floor. Low floor would be an insult as it would mean limited seating capacity and would have all the same capacity issues as with the Luas it would be more or less an underground Luas.

Consonata

I'm actually speechless by this decision. The most economically sound portion of the project. Canned. Purely due to misinformation and dammed parochial politics by people lucky enough to inherit a home within 5km of the canals. I can only imagine what it will be like commuting from south of Dundrum in 10 years time.

Fian

Consonata wrote: »

I'm actually speechless by this decision. The most economically sound portion of the project. Canned. Purely due to misinformation and dammed parochial politics by people lucky enough to inherit a home within 5km of the canals. I can only imagine what it will be like commuting from south of Dundrum in 10 years time.

I live in Dundrum, less than 100 yards from the luas station and work in town. I commute by bicycle, but the odd time that I do commute by luas it is already a pita. The worst problems are not for those commuting from south of Dundrum, but rather those north of Sandyford. If you are further out you get on and even perhaps get a seat, from Dundrum during commuting peak times it is very hard to get on a Luas. Even worse closer in to town.

This leads to an arms race with people getting the outbound luas out of town to where it is not full, then coming back in past their original stop and on into town. That's what i do if i need to get the luas in for some reason (which is rare.) Each time i see others doing teh same thing - getting off when we are out far enough that we will get on, crossing the tracks and getting another inbound one. With increasing numbers this will get significantly worse and everyone will need to do it.

Kellyconor1982

The good news is that at least the northern part will be built. A few days ago there were concerns that it could all be in jeopardy.
I think depending on brexit, public pressure in the sw part of the city could see the line going out there ultimately. If that did happen, it would be a small victory. The sw is badly in need of this.
However, make no mistake this is an appalling decision given current capacity on luas and the plans for cherrywood.

marno21

Kellyconor1982 wrote: »

The good news is that at least the northern part will be built. A few days ago there were concerns that it could all be in jeopardy.
I think depending on brexit, public pressure in the sw part of the city could see the line going out there ultimately. If that did happen, it would be a small victory. The sw is badly in need of this.
However, make no mistake this is an appalling decision given current capacity on luas and the plans for cherrywood.

SW Metro is a total non runner. The NTA did some work to determine if it was viable and it returned a NO. The NTA have repeatedly stated that any Metro south of SSG will be a tunnel to link up with the Metro tracks north of Sandyford that are currently being used to host the Luas Green Line.

Kfagan10

As per Topical Issue in the Dáil a few minutes ago there will be a public consultation on this preferred route, and another statutory public consultation after that before plans are submitted to An Bord Pleanála.

So chances are there for people to counter the South Dublin naysayers.

Marcusm

hmmm wrote: »

Places like Cherrywood and other high density plans along the light rail green line need to be put on hold now - we know the system is approaching capacity.

It’s very old fashioned thinking to approach it on the basis that people come from outer suburbs inwards only. Sandyford, Central Park/Leopardstown and Cherrywood will also have lots of offices/workplaces.

Kellyconor1982

marno21 wrote: »

SW Metro is a total non runner. The NTA did some work to determine if it was viable and it returned a NO. The NTA have repeatedly stated that any Metro south of SSG will be a tunnel to link up with the Metro tracks north of Sandyford that are currently being used to host the Luas Green Line.

I'm not from the sw of the city but it is probably the busiest route (with the northern secion of the metro that is being built) precisely because of it's lack of transport options. A line going out through rathmines/harolds cross - terenure - rathfarnham - knocklyon - firhouse - tallaght (to take weight off luas there) would make a massive difference to a huge number of people.

There are a lot of words i could use to describe shane ross and the government but his assertion and the nta that it is not viable is an insult to the people of Dublin and completely disengenuous.

marno21

Kellyconor1982 wrote: »

I'm not from the sw of the city but it is probably the busiest route (with the northern secion of the metro that is being built) precisely because of it's lack of transport options. A line going out through rathmines/harolds cross - terenure - rathfarnham - knocklyon - firhouse - tallaght (to take weight off luas there) would make a massive difference to a huge number of people.

There are a lot of words i could use to describe shane ross and the government but his assertion and the nta that it is not viable is an insult to the people of Dublin and completely disengenuous.

I'm sorry but the NTA conducted evidence based research and concluded that between 2016 and 2035 there should be 2 underground/partly underground systems in Dublin:

1. Swords-Sandyford
2. Inchicore/Heuston-East Wall

It would make an awful lot of difference but the money isn't there when the above 2 are ahead in the queue.

Muahahaha

Wow, just wow, the last 48 hours has just shown what a clusterfcuk infrastrucuture planning is in Ireland when NIMBYs get their hands on it. And how the hell did we go from an accepted 18-24 months of rolling temporary Luas closures to four years of full closure? This spurious claim has now been repeated by all the main media outlets and even said by Ross himself.

My initial reaction on the news of abandoning the south side was feck them, go build the north as that has always been the most important, a Swords-Airport-City link is vital at this stage. But on reflection this is still a crazy situtation for the south branch not to go ahead especially given it was only a matter of a cheap €300m upgrade and offered by far the best value for money of any part of the project. But now what we are going to have is the residents of Ranalagh basically holding thousands of commuters south of them to ransom. If this is allowed happen we all know that in 10 years the Luas will be over capacity and suddenly these eejits will have a light bulb moment and agree it now needs to be upgraded.

loyatemu wrote: »

it can't be a coincidence that this is coming hot on the heels of the NCH debacle. It's an easy decision for the govt to make now - as others have said, overcrowding on the green line will force through the southern section eventually. In the meantime get on with the tunnelling.

I said it on here 6 months ago- given the cost overruns for the NCH I am not confident that Metro Link will ever get funded. As it stands it is a €4bn project, I think given the construction inflation seen in the space of three years on the NCH project ML is now closer to a €6bn project. And by the time funding comes around it will be even higher, perhaps up to €8bn which would be double the initial estimate. Thats going to be a very hard sell, especially in rural Ireland.

marno21

Muahahaha wrote: »

If this is allowed happen we all know that in 10 years the Luas will be over capacity and suddenly these eejits will have a light bulb moment and agree it now needs to be upgraded.

The people who are doing this objecting are not the people who will suffer from the loss of the Green Line upgrade. Lets be clear on that. Look at the protagonists on Twitter and the shade of hair colour backs this point up.

It's the same with Brexit in the UK, and the people who fund Republican senators campaigns like James Inhofe in the US.

hmmm

Kellyconor1982 wrote: »

A line going out through rathmines/harolds cross - terenure - rathfarnham - knocklyon - firhouse - tallaght (to take weight off luas there) would make a massive difference to a huge number of people.

It's not an either/or decision. An upgrade of the Green line is a low few hundred million and is ready to go. A line running in a different direction is multiple billions and another massive delay while it is designed.

It is in my view disgraceful for any politicians to not make this clear. And I reserve particular disgust for politicians who claim to be on the side of commuters who have tried to push their own particular pie in the sky visions at the expense of the green line, and as a consequence we may end up with neither.

Idbatterim

The nonsense could be countered by a social media page and sponsored adverts in the locality for probably a few hundred euro. Lay out the facts and go on the attack against the nimby politicians...

Imagine these politicians were all of a sudden highlighted for the idiots they were to the masses. They’d probably think twice about siding with a few idiots ...

Idbatterim

Grandeeod, where are you ? Cracking out the whiskey and a cigar or what?!

They had billions to waste on white elephant rural motorways. I’d suggest if there isn’t enough money for the proposed projects now , that the urgently needed stuff takes total and utter priority. This line for Dublin. M20 and ideally Dart underground... the other stuff is joke stuff in comparison ...

prunudo

I wonder what tomorrows sensationalist headline will be?

As much as I hate consultants and the fees they charge I think if this all falls apart there needs to be some sort of report into how the project turned into such a mess and what can be learned from doing things differently in the future. Ireland needs a fast tracked infrastructure system so that these big projects are continually sidetracked.