Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Idbatterim

Article with comments about it on the journal at below link

Closure of Luas Green Line to facilitate Metrolink 'off the agenda', Ross says https://jrnl.ie/4506548

hmmm

It will be interesting to hear the views of employers along the Green line (and further in towards the IFSC/Silicon Docks). I suspect the government may have been telling some large organisations about the plans for upgrading transport around Dublin as a promotional tool, and they would be very useful (and impactful) advocates for Metrolink if they thought that government was wavering.

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

Article with comments about it on the journal at below link

Closure of Luas Green Line to facilitate Metrolink 'off the agenda', Ross says https://jrnl.ie/4506548

Breaking of eggs to create omelette off agenda, says Ross

jhenno78

Idbatterim wrote: »

Closure of Luas Green Line to facilitate Metrolink 'off the agenda', Ross says

Maybe this is actually a very nuanced statement.

I mean, closure is off the agenda...closure was never on the agenda.

Kellyconor1982

hmmm wrote: »

It's not an either/or decision. An upgrade of the Green line is a low few hundred million and is ready to go. A line running in a different direction is multiple billions and another massive delay while it is designed.

It is in my view disgraceful for any politicians to not make this clear. And I reserve particular disgust for politicians who claim to be on the side of commuters who have tried to push their own particular pie in the sky visions at the expense of the green line, and as a consequence we may end up with neither.

Yes but the nimbys in that part of Dublin have scuttered it and the government eedjits have jumped in to support them. Not much consolation to the people in places like cherrywood and sandyford. It doesn't matter if it was costing a few hundred million and made sense - it isn't happening now.

I wanted this line to happen because it would have been incredibly successful and resulted in lines to places in the sw that deserve it more down the line.

Now there is the possibility that with this debacle a sw line could be built with the right amount of public pressure at least in stages.

jhenno78

So...if we assume that the people being CPO'd are the main problem, their number is pretty small...is there a reason - other than how morally bonkers it is - to not just give them stupid amounts of money, say 5-10 million each, to just keep quiet?

It's got to be cheaper than re-routing.

MJohnston

Dats me wrote: »

Is there any pro-metro candidate? Soc Dems maybe? Would be interesting if we could start giving them a boost online or something if so

Disclaimer: I'm a Social Democrats member.

With that said, they're a party that's very much in favour of more being spent on transport infrastructure, relative to roads spending. Other than Dart Underground, they aren't really specific about individual projects. You can read more about that here:
https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/what-we-stand-for/investing-in-good-public-services/

They've a fairly pragmatic approach to most things, and the party leaders are more concerned with factual, intelligent politics than soundbites/point scoring. Take a look at their Dail record recently over the NCH stuff - I'd say their TDs are two of the few actually seeking answers and solutions rather than more mud slinging.

Local councillors and candidates views may, of course, vary.

LongboardPro

Idbatterim wrote: »

The nonsense could be countered by a social media page and sponsored adverts in the locality for probably a few hundred euro. Lay out the facts and go on the attack against the nimby politicians...

Imagine these politicians were all of a sudden highlighted for the idiots they were to the masses. They’d probably think twice about siding with a few idiots ...

I confronted someone I saw on Twitter crying about the Luas tracks being, as he put it, "ripped up". I told him how this is not the case and that the line was built to metro standard from day one. Instead of engaging with what I said or acknowledging that he was spreading fake news, he just blocked me. This is what we're dealing with. They don't want to hear the truth.
Also, about the high floor debate, I've seen an internal document that states they're going with driverless vehicles so it highly suggests that they're going with the high floor option.

salmocab

jhenno78 wrote: »

So...if we assume that the people being CPO'd are the main problem, their number is pretty small...is there a reason - other than how morally bonkers it is - to not just give them stupid amounts of money, say 5-10 million each, to just keep quiet?

It's got to be cheaper than re-routing.

They aren’t the main problem by a long way

jhenno78

Dats me

MJohnston wrote: »

Disclaimer: I'm a Social Democrats member.

With that said, they're a party that's very much in favour of more being spent on transport infrastructure, relative to roads spending. Other than Dart Underground, they aren't really specific about individual projects. You can read more about that here:
https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/what-we-stand-for/investing-in-good-public-services/

They've a fairly pragmatic approach to most things, and the party leaders are more concerned with factual, intelligent politics than soundbites/point scoring. Take a look at their Dail record recently over the NCH stuff - I'd say their TDs are two of the few actually seeking answers and solutions rather than more mud slinging.

Local councillors and candidates views may, of course, vary.

I agree that usually they're very good, and I don't think anyone could love a project the way Catherine Murphy loves Dart Underground.

But I watched Róísín Shorthall at the Oireachtas Transport Committee for busconnects a while ago and she was Sh*te, absolutely awful. She was objecting to one way in Santry and then over and over again saying "but why not solve the congestion issue first" when she made clear taking space from cars away was bad apparently

Spanish Eyes

Whatever happens it will be quicker than Bus Connects!

Think about that. Amazing to me anyway, but I am sure someone will know better than I do.

Synode

Just seen Shane Ross' speech in the Dail on the news. Sounds like he was saying that no way will the Luas be closing for 4 years more so than the upgrade is being cancelled.

Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

Grandeeod, where are you ? Cracking out the whiskey and a cigar or what?!

They had billions to waste on white elephant rural motorways. I’d suggest if there isn’t enough money for the proposed projects now , that the urgently needed stuff takes total and utter priority. This line for Dublin. M20 and ideally Dart underground... the other stuff is joke stuff in comparison ...

No whiskey and no cigar. I don't smoke or drink shorts.:D What do you expect me to say that I haven't already said here for years. For me there is nothing shocking about this. It was predictable all along. You know that. There is no alternative voice anymore. I once encouraged you to be part of an alternative voice. When there was an alternative voice like Platform11 (remember them) crap like this didn't happen. But P11 was consumed by people who couldn't understand why you had to be absolutely vicious about confronting all you have seen in relation to Metrolink and other rail projects. The north side section of Metrolink won't happen either. Mark my words. I'm out of it because of the pure ignorance of people interested and in general. No disrespect to you.

Idbatterim

Grandeeod wrote: »

No whiskey and no cigar. I don't smoke or drink shorts.:D What do you expect me to say that I haven't already said here for years. For me there is nothing shocking about this. It was predictable all along. You know that. There is no alternative voice anymore. I once encouraged you to be part of an alternative voice. When there was an alternative voice like Platform11 (remember them) crap like this didn't happen. But P11 was consumed by people who couldn't understand why you had to be absolutely vicious about confronting all you have seen in relation to Metrolink and other rail projects. The north side section of Metrolink won't happen either. Mark my words. I'm out of it because of the pure ignorance of people interested and in general. No disrespect to you.

I didn’t mean you were celebrating, just that once again you have been proved correct!

I agree us posting here is a waste of time in a way, it’s not each other we need to convince. But equally I find it beyond farcical, that on a multi billion euro project, that the politicians won’t show any spine. That the nta didn’t see exactly this coming , they didn’t conter the nonsense. With all due respect , it’s not my job and I’m not being paid a ridiculous amount of money to fail!

I’d put this down to government and nta failure way ahead of the nimbies. Christ, let the planners decide it!

ricimaki

Out of interest, does the original Metro North still have planning permission?
Whilst the northern section of Metrolink is a better plan, it will still take 2-3 years before its shovel ready. Metrolink without the southern half is effictively Metro North, with it routed through Drumcondra rather than Glasnevin, and the addition of Charlemont.

Regardless of anything else, there is the political will to build a metro line between the city centre and the airport/swords, which wasn't there before. As bad as losing the southern half is (even if its a tiny portion of the cost), it may be enough to get this project moving. It's frustrating having to deal with NIMBY's, but we all knew something would have to give. I'm still waiting for something on the northern side to cause more hassle, such as Na Fianna....

Idbatterim

Even if it had permission, when granted that wasting another three years minimum will likely cost a lot in inflation. I bet those morons would still reject it. Despite the fact they are oh so concerned about budgets and value for money. Pathetic!

hmmm

Something will pop up on the Northern route, a Facebook campaign about cracks in buildings, discovery of a public toilet occupied during the rising, a species of kangaroo that lives in a tree, something. By giving in to the small group of residents in Ranelagh, it will encourage every other bunch of loopers to object and feel entitled to block it.

It doesn't end here, and will affect every other bit of public transport and public infrastructure. Bus Connects for example would be killed if it so much as breaths on someones garden.

Ronan|Raven

Consonata wrote: »

I'm actually speechless by this decision. The most economically sound portion of the project. Canned. Purely due to misinformation and dammed parochial politics by people lucky enough to inherit a home within 5km of the canals. I can only imagine what it will be like commuting from south of Dundrum in 10 years time.

We live in a wonderful Country where those who shout loudest are enough to make the shortsighted politicians we elect crumble.

God forbid we ever look at the bigger picture. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

jhenno78

hmmm wrote: »

Something will pop up on the Northern route, a Facebook campaign about cracks in buildings, discovery of a public toilet occupied during the rising, a species of kangaroo that lives in a tree, something. By giving in to the small group of residents in Ranelagh, it will encourage every other bunch of loopers to object and feel entitled to block it.

It doesn't end here, and will affect every other bit of public transport and public infrastructure. Bus Connects for example would be killed if it so much as breaths on someones garden.

My bet is on some cave-dweller complaining that the tunnel is ruining their view.

Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

I didn’t mean you were celebrating, just that once again you have been proved correct!

I agree us posting here is a waste of time in a way, it’s not each other we need to convince. But equally I find it beyond farcical, that on a multi billion euro project, that the politicians won’t show any spine. That the nta didn’t see exactly this coming , they didn’t conter the nonsense. With all due respect , it’s not my job and I’m not being paid a ridiculous amount of money to fail!

I’d put this down to government and nta failure way ahead of the nimbies. Christ, let the planners decide it!

Actually I should be drinking whiskey and smoking cigars for not being on the pay load with all this crap. I was there during the original Metro project with the RPA. A report too, Luas too when they denied that longer trams were needed on the Red Line. A fraction of what was going on. In my opinion its changed somewhat but the political crap is alive and well and I don't buy it at all. I could go on and on, but I'm exhausted by it all and some of the crap talk here that spins positive stuff.

Idbatterim

Looking forward to spoiling my vote in the next general election and putting a number one beside my “mickey mouse” nomination ...

Muahahaha

Its the spineless politicians that get to you too. They're supposed to be leaders but are only led by those who shout the loudest. I'd imagine behind closed doors Eoghan Murphy would actually prefer for it to go ahead. But Michael McDowell wants his Dail seat back and Eoghan Murphy is his political target, Murphy will be fighting for his political life at the next election against a heavy weight like McDowell. McDowell needs to get noticed locally so he goes rabble rousing against the Metro and as a result Murphy and every other politican follows suit. No leadership on display whatsoever, just short term political gain.

LeinsterDub

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

We live in a wonderful Country where those who shout loudest are enough to make the shortsighted politicians we elect crumble.

God forbid we ever look at the bigger picture. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

An other reminder. https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=343405786251244&ref=content filter let's drive that bigger picture

Kfagan10

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its the spineless politicians that get to you too. They're supposed to be leaders but are only led by those who shout the loudest. I'd imagine behind closed doors Eoghan Murphy would actually prefer for it to go ahead. But Michael McDowell wants his Dail seat back and Eoghan Murphy is his political target, Murphy will be fighting for his political life at the next election against a heavy weight like McDowell. McDowell needs to get noticed locally so he goes rabble rousing against the Metro and as a result Murphy and every other politican follows suit. No leadership on display whatsoever, just short term political gain.

McDowell is a joke and all it takes to let the air out of any hopes he has at a Dáil seat is to publish his attendance and voting record as a senator. He's barely better than an absentionist MP, no matter how many Seanad reform reports he ties his name to.

Although he fits in well with his gammon neighbors.

Like I said before there are minimum 2 more public consultations on this project, so people who are in favour need to be as vocal as Rethink MetroLink during those. (Hopefully without the 1930's fascist fonts they use).

I live nowhere near the proposed route and won't be anytime soon. For me the most vital part of this project is actually the city centre-airport link, but it would be such a waste to not get a green line upgrade in at the same time. Especially if it causes unnecessary misery for people just trying to get to work over the next 20 years.

Kermit.de.frog

Gob****es

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ranelagh-says-no-foiled-metro-plan-spreads-cheer-in-dublin-6-1.3802149

marno21

Gavan Reilly with a good run down on the Metro issue here. If only this information was pushed earlier

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1098725070137114624

marno21

Topical issue from todays Dail: https://oireachtas.heanet.ie/hourly/dail/dail_20190221T085959.000008.mp4

Shane Ross stated the following:

He refused to comment on alignments or routings; this will be published by the NTA in 2nd half of March.
He expressly ruled out any idea of the Metro tunnel being sent to Rathfarnham/Terenure/Harolds Cross/Firhouse
He will not sanction any plan that takes the Green Line out of use for any extended period of time
The NTA/TII are working on a route to minimise disruption (personal opinion - this is key, Metro South will be chosen either as a project that will have minimal disruption or abandoned).

Jim O'Callaghan really needs a kick up the arse with this continued nonsense about "ripping up the Green Line after millions invested in it". It's getting beyond pathetic at this stage.

marno21

The Last Word on Today FM. Metro segment

10 minutes of Eamon Ryan talking about a Metro to Rathfarnham and Jim O'Callaghan on about ripping up Luas lines.

Same old tired **** being unchallenged by these two ****ers with their repeated nonsense

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/southside-section-dublin-metrolink-abandoned

prunudo

marno21 wrote: »

The Last Word on Today FM. Metro segment

10 minutes of Eamon Ryan talking about a Metro to Rathfarnham and Jim O'Callaghan on about ripping up Luas lines.

Same old tired **** being unchallenged by these two ****ers with their repeated nonsense

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/southside-section-dublin-metrolink-abandoned

For whatever reason there has been a huge amount of biased, unbalanced reporting on Metrolink by Todayfm and Newstalk the last couple of days. Whether they think they're solving another Nch style scandal or have vested interests I don't know. Both rolling out Eamon Ryan as some sort of expert.
If only Gavan Reilly was more vocal in favour.